Dear Mod............

[Guru]

Now you accuse me !!?

I can’t stop you from saying stupid things but from now on don’t include me in your wicket thoughts stop accusing me falsely .. As I said you made this exchange personal, frankly because of your age I hate to be the one trash your argument . It seems you simply unable to have a logical dialog .
First you accused Ajorloo with specific crime then you try to look for evidence , then asking me to proof a negative of saying he is innocent. I have made no comment as to he is innocent or guilty, all I have said is Tudeh party leaders were convicted criminals and tudeh party has a historical records for lies , deception and character assassinations.

If you accused someone burden is on you to proof . Putting two pictures of someone then jumping to different conclusion with specific crime is fabrication and character assassination.
Rather than changing subject show your proof then I will be first one to condemn him short of that you are same as rest of them.
Once again you have said you have proof he is that particular torturer guy and that fabricated story of Pasdar, 7 shots.
Show proof or be man enough to apologize till u come up with proof.

Once again you will not find any disrespectful comments from me toward you before you came up with these daryvaries.

Because you are not smart to find that picture in rahe tudeh don’t accuses me of misrepresent.
Frankly I have lost respect and interest to continue this exchange.

I told you if you peruse may get ugly.
I have nothing to learn from type of you and no interest to teach you something.
Good luck

Here is how to find it.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=4&gl=us
It is from Rahetudeh , yoiu can search for it in their Cached
راه توده

... از زندان نیز ربودن و شکنجه کردن و به قتل ... در کارنامه مدیریتی سردار آجرلو قهرمانی ...
www.rahetudeh.com/ - 63k - Cached -

As I said it’s not something new , they had it for a while because of various
Reasons including demand for proof , were dumped in back ground. Nothing will be erased in internet

First of all, I didn't accuse Ajoorloo of anything before I saw the proof.

Second, you posted a link to a rahetude webpage cached by Google as your source for the picture of the same page you posted before. Unlike what you may think, people are not stupid. People know that an HTML webpage doesn't just transform into a jpeg snapshot. It would be much easier to copy the text and pictures from that webpage into your post than making a snapshot and saving it with a name such as "rahetudehtd5.jpg". It's interesting to know where did you get that jpeg snapshot that was hosted on ImageShack.

You seem to have access to some "inside" information that not many people could have, and the language you use with regard to political activists with any political inclination, except of course the ruling group, is descriptive of the type of person you are.

[Essi]

no I didn't say that would be good enough.. but it would be a start.
yes the other thread was closed but two more are open about the same subject and we have had 45 Posts in this one about the same exact topic of your initial thread.. meaning, You don't need to have that thread open for you to put up your pictures.. you can use one of the two open threads to put up whatever Evidence you have, for everyone to see..
I think whatever you wanted to say in the other thread has already been said in this thread, which makes closing the other thread kind of pointless..

Baba ghorbone on dahanet behzad jan. Already 45 posts and please count hom many of them is about EVIN, TORTURE, MONAFEGHI, POLITIC, ETC... Baba Ali khan nokaretam, don't you think I would would hate him (Ajorloo) more than I did before if I find out that he was a shekanjegar in Evin? My own father spended 8 months in that shit hole and when he came out, he was totally broken everywhere.. so stop this disscussion and don't make me close the remaining two as well. I tell you for the last time, if you have some kind of evidence like photos or stuff like that, it's a good start.

Ali

[Ali Chicago]

Now you accuse me !!?


First you accused Ajorloo with specific crime then you try to look for evidence , then asking me to proof a negative of saying he is innocent. I have made no comment as to he is innocent or guilty, all I have said is Tudeh party leaders were convicted criminals and tudeh party has a historical records for lies , deception and character assassinations.

If you accused someone burden is on you to proof . Putting two pictures of someone then jumping to different conclusion with specific crime is fabrication and character assassination.
Rather than changing subject show your proof then I will be first one to condemn him short of that you are same as rest of them.
Once again you have said you have proof he is that particular torturer guy and that fabricated story of Pasdar, 7 shots.
Show proof or be man enough to apologize till u come up with proof.

Once again you will not find any disrespectful comments from me toward you before you came up with these daryvaries.


Frankly I have lost respect and interest to continue this exchange.

I told you if you peruse may get ugly.
I have nothing to learn from type of you and no interest to teach you something.
Good luck

Here is how to find it.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:knVaBvNz1q4J:www.rahetudeh.com/+%D8%B4%DA%A9%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%87+%D8%A2%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%84%D9%88&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

It is from Rahetudeh , yoiu can search for it in their Cached
راه توده

... از زندان نیز ربودن و شکنجه کردن و به قتل ... در کارنامه مدیریتی سردار آجرلو قهرمانی ...
www.rahetudeh.com/ - 63k - Cached -


Reasons including demand for proof , were dumped in back ground. Nothing will be erased in internet

I went to their site and looked in their archieve as well and couldnt' find this specific picture. But then again there is a 140 archieves of this year only, so I couldn't search all of their site.
Like I said, I have asked my friend in Italy to translate the thing and send it to me plus the pictures. But what you yourself posted (and it seems you yourself boxed the guys' face or was it by them?). Isn't this a proof? No one is here to defend or attack Tudeh learders, it is about the fact the Ajoorloo former halwaii did participate in the torture. I sent an email to the Rahetudeh site and asked them about this. I am waiting for their response as well.

I am really confused by your statements. This pictures that you posted don't they agree with my initial post? If you want to attack Tudeh Party leaders go ahead and do it. No one is here to defend them, but this thread is about Ajorloo being an interogator in Ewin and paticipating in execution.

My question to you is, based on the pictures that you yourself posted, it seems he was in Ewin. So do you condone some one who was an interogator in Ewin being the future head of IFF? Please answer this question.

[St_Mark]

I don't think St Mark copied the pictures from rahetude web site. In fact it's not a copy and paste from a website. The whole text and pictures are a snapshot of the website which is saved as an image on the ImageShack website. Here is the url: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6...hetudehtd1.jpg

I tried to search for the image on ImageShack, but I couldn't find it. The image filename suggests that either the image belongs to a private archive on ImageShack, or copied from an archive to a private account on ImageShack. We all know that security services keep such archives, and only people who are cleared by the security services have access to these archives.

Now you accuse me !!?


First you accused Ajorloo with specific crime then you try to look for evidence , then asking me to proof a negative of saying he is innocent. I have made no comment as to he is innocent or guilty, all I have said is Tudeh party leaders were convicted criminals and tudeh party has a historical records for lies , deception and character assassinations.

If you accused someone burden is on you to proof . Putting two pictures of someone then jumping to different conclusion with specific crime is fabrication and character assassination.
Rather than changing subject show your proof then I will be first one to condemn him short of that you are same as rest of them.
Once again you have said you have proof he is that particular torturer guy and that fabricated story of Pasdar, 7 shots.
Show proof or be man enough to apologize till u come up with proof.

Once again you will not find any disrespectful comments from me toward you before you came up with these daryvaries.


Frankly I have lost respect and interest to continue this exchange.

I told you if you peruse may get ugly.
I have nothing to learn from type of you and no interest to teach you something.
Good luck

Here is how to find it.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:knVaBvNz1q4J:www.rahetudeh.com/+%D8%B4%DA%A9%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%87+%D8%A2%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%84%D9%88&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

It is from Rahetudeh , yoiu can search for it in their Cached
راه توده

... از زندان نیز ربودن و شکنجه کردن و به قتل ... در کارنامه مدیریتی سردار آجرلو قهرمانی ...
www.rahetudeh.com/ - 63k - Cached -


Reasons including demand for proof , were dumped in back ground. Nothing will be erased in internet

[Guru]

I was searching the net and couldn't find this pictures that St Mark posted. I even clicked on the links and it goes to a site that I didnt' see the pcitures that St. Mark posted. So, I request St. Mark to give me the link for these pictures.

I don't think St Mark copied the pictures from rahetude web site. In fact it's not a copy and paste from a website. The whole text and pictures are a snapshot of the website which is saved as an image on the ImageShack website. Here is the url: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6...hetudehtd5.jpg

I tried to search for the image on ImageShack, but I couldn't find it. The image filename suggests that either the image belongs to a private archive on ImageShack, or copied from an archive to a private account on ImageShack. We all know that security services keep such archives, and only people who are cleared by the security services have access to these archives.

[Ali Chicago]

I was searching the net and couldn't find this pictures that St Mark posted. I even clicked on the links and it goes to a site that I didnt' see the pcitures that St. Mark posted. So, I request St. Mark to give me the link for these pictures. My source was three picture of this guy (Ajoorloo) in an Italian paper. These pictures printed in a leftist party paper there; and that is how I heard about this (through a freind who lives in Italy). But since I can't read Italian, I asked him to send me the pictures and translation of the text. He still hasn't done that.

But as the saying goes, "Adoo shavad Sababe khyar Aghar Khooda Khahad". It seems St. Mark found these pictures and posted here. As the farsi text below the picture explains these are the picture of the guy. Again, clicking on the link goes to a page that doesn't have this pciture or text, so I don't know how St. Mark found this.

I don't undrestand why St. Mark bring up the whole Tudeh Party into this. This thread is about if Ajoorloo was a torturer in Ewin or not. Did he participate in Execuation of political prisoners.
This thread isn't about Tudeh Pary and being pro or against it. So please stop this bringing them to the forum. The question of this thread is simple, is Halwai was a torturer in Ewin yes or no? Did he participate in exectuation of political prisoners?

I always considered St. Mark as a valuable member, but your recent posts are totally disappointing to say the least. This thread isnt' about Tudeh Party and weather they are Khaen or whatever. It is a thread about Mojatab Halwai is Sardar Ajoroloo or not? So please stop bringing up Tudeh party to accusation against them to change the topic.

I ask a simple question from you "St. Mark". Can you guarentee that Halwaii (i.e.Ajorloo) while working only tortured Tudeh Party people or executed them only? Even if you guarantee that (which is impossible unelss you are Halwaii yourself, or worked as in Ewin yourself), torturing or executing any Iranian (for that matter any human being) regardless of their ideology or political affiliation is something to be Proud of?

[St_Mark]

no I didn't say that would be good enough.. but it would be a start.

yes the other thread was closed but two more are open about the same subject and we have had 45 Posts in this one about the same exact topic of your initial thread.. meaning, You don't need to have that thread open for you to put up your pictures.. you can use one of the two open threads to put up whatever Evidence you have, for everyone to see..

I think whatever you wanted to say in the other thread has already been said in this thread, which makes closing the other thread kind of pointless..

Dear : These allegations are not new , its product of defamed traitorous mind of Tudeh party members. What else they can say? How else they had to justify criminal activities of their party in behave of Iranian enemies.
Unable to face reality they resort to what they do the best fabrication, lies, character assassination
Tudeh party leaders were convicted criminals . Their ideologue and leaders confess, wrote books about their criminal traitorous history of betray.

راه توده

[BehzadB]

Well, I have picutre of Halwaii in Ewin during the Galindoopool's visist and picture of Ajoorloo (was taken recently). Is that good enough? The thread was closed, otherwise I can post the pictures and you and other people be the judge.

no I didn't say that would be good enough.. but it would be a start.

yes the other thread was closed but two more are open about the same subject and we have had 45 Posts in this one about the same exact topic of your initial thread.. meaning, You don't need to have that thread open for you to put up your pictures.. you can use one of the two open threads to put up whatever Evidence you have, for everyone to see..

I think whatever you wanted to say in the other thread has already been said in this thread, which makes closing the other thread kind of pointless..

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jan, I am glad you are back..

Let me try again as to what my objection to your thread was..

No one said you have something against Ajorloo and no one said you are doing this for propaganda .. none of that stuff.. no one said that a man running for IFF should not be discussed here.. of course he should..

the problem was that you start a thread with "there is a strong possibility that ajorloo is the same Evin torturer..." , and make a big claim. but, you don't put up any proof and when someone asks for proof, you say ask me and I will provide it. why didn't you provide it with your initial post? You don't expect people to just believe things just like that, do you?

and then you say there are enough 'circumstantial evidence' to support your claim.. I don't know what you mean by that, but circumstantial evidences are ignored by courts and not acceptable.. that's why they are called circumstantial..


Still, I am not saying I don't believe you .. but at least when you open up a thread like that put some of your evidence in your initial post.. for example put a picture of Ajorloo and that picture from the 80's (Halvaee) and then ask us to compare ... As Essi said, he could reopen it if there are proof or something that would substantiate your claim.. but look at your first post and tell me if there is anything in there that is substantial to the claim..

so that was the problem and that's why I said there was no shred of evidence in your initial post..

About Ajorloo not being football related:

Of course Ajorloo running for IFF is football related.. but a discussion (thread) on whether he is the former Evin Torturer (Halvaee) or discussing if he is the man in that 80's picture or not, or arguing if the Pasdar that Called that LA show was real or not, are not football related .. .. and that was my point about the subject not being football related.. of course if the evidence is presented then it would be different.. but you have to understand Ali jan, your experience , or your word alone is not going to be enough to make a public accusation in F+.. In General forum it would not be a problem... but the problem was mostly with lack of proof and evidence..

If Ajorloo is a former Torturer , I am all for it to expose him.. but I need to see some evidence first..

Well, I have picutre of Halwaii in Ewin during the Galindoopool's visist and picture of Ajoorloo (was taken recently). Is that good enough? The thread was closed, otherwise I can post the pictures and you and other people be the judge. I am not sure how to prove Majiid Halwayee tortures in Ewin though, unless the person was there and was subject of his acts or had freinds and family who were his victims. The murderous regime executed a large number of political prisoners who were in its jail back in 1988, so those poor political prisoners took their stroeis to grave with themselves.

The main reason for opening that thread was to use the so called "crowd sourcing". If you live in US you must be familiar with that term. I wanted to gather more information thorugh other memebers as well. The thread was closed unfortunately. It is amazing that there are threads about persoanl lives of people (recently, there was a thread about a woman who claimed to be Ali Daie's misteress) and it wasn't closed, but a thread like this was closed. I like to beleive in good of the people. Maybe it is a coincidence.

[BehzadB]

I just came back from another business tripand see that the thread I opened is closed. I am sorry to say the least. I opened that thread not to use it as a propaganda pro or against anyone. Ajoorloo is being supported to run as teh next head of IFF. I am not clear about what Behzad Khan says as my "accusation without a shred of evidance".
As for Hajj Mojtab Halwaii I have proof. Many friends of mine and to some degree I myself have felt the cosequences of behabvior this "Shekanjeh Chee". If he wants I can provide proof. As for the fact that Ajoorloo is the same Hajj Mojtaba Halwaii I have proof too. As for he is being supported to become next head of IFF I cant' give you proof in the form of paper signed by Ahmadi Nezhad and his croonies. But there are sufficient circumstancial eveidences to support my claim.
Part of this is to prevent murderers like him to represent IFF as an NGO. If this isnt' football related, either I am missing something or someone please tell me how Ajoorloo being the next head of IFF isn't football related?

Ali jan, I am glad you are back..

Let me try again as to what my objection to your thread was..

No one said you have something against Ajorloo and no one said you are doing this for propaganda .. none of that stuff.. no one said that a man running for IFF should not be discussed here.. of course he should..

the problem was that you start a thread with "there is a strong possibility that ajorloo is the same Evin torturer..." , and make a big claim. but, you don't put up any proof and when someone asks for proof, you say ask me and I will provide it. why didn't you provide it with your initial post? You don't expect people to just believe things just like that, do you?

and then you say there are enough 'circumstantial evidence' to support your claim.. I don't know what you mean by that, but circumstantial evidences are ignored by courts and not acceptable.. that's why they are called circumstantial..


Still, I am not saying I don't believe you .. but at least when you open up a thread like that put some of your evidence in your initial post.. for example put a picture of Ajorloo and that picture from the 80's (Halvaee) and then ask us to compare ... As Essi said, he could reopen it if there are proof or something that would substantiate your claim.. but look at your first post and tell me if there is anything in there that is substantial to the claim..

so that was the problem and that's why I said there was no shred of evidence in your initial post..

About Ajorloo not being football related:

Of course Ajorloo running for IFF is football related.. but a discussion (thread) on whether he is the former Evin Torturer (Halvaee) or discussing if he is the man in that 80's picture or not, or arguing if the Pasdar that Called that LA show was real or not, are not football related .. .. and that was my point about the subject not being football related.. of course if the evidence is presented then it would be different.. but you have to understand Ali jan, your experience , or your word alone is not going to be enough to make a public accusation in F+.. In General forum it would not be a problem... but the problem was mostly with lack of proof and evidence..

If Ajorloo is a former Torturer , I am all for it to expose him.. but I need to see some evidence first..

[Guru]

Younger generation of Iranians should learn about event how it happened not how it is being described by the regime.

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of our current younger generation have a good idea of what's really going on in Iran, and don't have any illusions about the Islamic Republic and its now corny TV shows containing Political prisoners' confessions.

There is only a small minority who either by ignorance, personal gains, or both, re-iterate regime's propaganda.

[zzgloo]

Dear:
Ali Chicago is nice guy but in this case is simply misinformed.



If it become between Basijis and white collars , Basijis will be elected.
If it become between Basijis Ajorlu and Katiraei, Katiraei will be elected.
Indeed if Katiraei is the candidate, consider him new IFF chief. Farahani is trying hard to squeeze in one or two worthless reformers as a candidate, he will fail.
P.S. nakhoda Afzali was spy for KGB and arrested red handed, there were no need of any torture in his case , Once arrested he volunteered more than expected of a commie He asked for forgiveness before execution..
May God forgive his sins and treachery?

Dear ST_Mark.............

I am realy puzzeled about you...........
The words you use,are of high importance......" Monafeghin"," crooks "," treachery", "sins "," SPY ","worthless reformers ","red handed"," commie ",..etc,etc.....which all these words,you used against people whom have been either killed or tourtured by ..... forces of Evil.....
I ask God,to forgive sins and treacheries of the different kind of people, than you have in mind.

[Ali Chicago]

I am not sure how you say I used your age. I am sorry if my post came across as disrespectful, which wasn't my purpose. I didn't write that to win or loose. I just shared what I knew with you.

Lot of calims you here about this political prisoners aren't just true. I am not god and don't know if X or Y did what. If Afazli was good or bad or Khaen or as you call them "Monafegh". What I know (based on my persoanl experience) is that they toruture you and if they do, you (the prisoner) confess to anything they want.

In case of Tudeh Party specifically, they arrested them not for the so called spying for Soviet Union, but their accusation was a Coup against IRI. Mnay of these guys were arrested in Ahwaz and I happen to be there at that time. Funy enough that many of these people were supporting the IRI. This was their accusation ( a coup against IRI). Of course there were no coup and when that was obvious they brought up other accusations. Of course there were no Coup, it was just an excuse by Hezzbollais to get rid of all the non-maktabis.

Again, I am sorry if I offended you which wasn't my intenetion. The younger generation of Iranians are being fed the history the way isn't the truth. I felt I should share it with you and give you a different version. It is up to you whether to beleive the pure Regim's propaganda. Howayda was Feramasoon, Sayedee SeerJani was Lavat Kar, Hashemi was Monafegh, Mojahedeen were such and such, Afzali was spy. Everybody was bad except these guys who destroyed the biggest reveloution in the 20th century.

Younger generation of Iranians should learn about event how it happened not how it is being described by the regime.

[St_Mark]

I have respected you for your posts but with all the respect only a guy from Dadsetani or Sepah talked like this about political prisoners. But I don't want to turn this to a political back and forth. In this case I am really disappointed that you miss the main point.

First of all this post wasn't about certain political Party and certain prisoner. It was about a tortuerer who will potentially can lead aN Iranian NGO (non gevernemental Organization) in front of the whole world.. I don't see how from this you miss the main point and starting to redecule the victims not the murderers.
BTW, you youself suggested that you are young and weren't in Evin. So may I suggest that you don't beleive what you hear a prisoner (specailly a political one) supposedly confesses to. If you yourself are hung from your wrists for half an hour or take (Ghapooni), you will confess to "anything" and I mean "Anything", they tell you. Not to mention blindfolded for months or being put in Grave "Ghabr" in Ghoohar Dasht, or whipped so called "tazzeer".

Until when do we want to blame the victims of torture for being spy fo this or that country or being so called "khaen"?
Let me refresh your mind. Saeede Seerjani the famous writeran old man was brough on TV and confessed he has done Lavat. What about that cartoonist who was brought to TV and made confessions? Hashemi "Montazaeri's son in law" who uncoverd Mc Farlin's trip to Tehran was brought on TV and supposedly "confessed" to a lot of "things". Only in a god damn country like Iran the victim of the torture will be rediculed and will be labed spy and "fifth column".

Based on my own dealings with these bastards, they didn't have anything about me. Just my words that their spies had told them. The accused me of being Pro Shah, Mojahed, Paykar, Dookhtar Baaz, drug dealer and a lot fo things. They wanted to find the so called Madrak from my own confessions. Thank god I wasn't anyone famous, otherwise they would have insisted and I am sure, I would have confessed, to may of the same so called "Crimes" or even all of them, if I had to, to get away from whipping or Ghabr. After months one of the interogators saw me and asked me why I am still there. I realized I have been cleared by him, but the bastards kept me there to bother me more.

Since you say you are young and never been in Evin, Before coming here and insulting political prisoners (regardless of their political affiliation), I suggest you read the books written by former political prisoners. Radio Farda has an interveiw with this former Mojahedeen supporter at their site. Listen to it and (I hope) then you resepct political prisoners all of them from all stripes Teemsar Rahimi former Miliatry goverener of Tehran to Leftist or rightist, Bahai, Darveesh, whoever more. In Iran no one should be put in the jail for their beleif.

P.S. " Ghabr" Grave was one of the worst form of tortures, I personally haven't experienced that, but many of my people I know told me about it which was very customery specially against Mojahed political prisoners "their girls specially since girls typically are more afraid of the dark" in Ghohar Dasht. In Ghabr, they basically bury you in the ground like a grave, in a box, you can't move or anything, as if you are in your grave.

[Ali Chicago]

Nokaretam dadash, i will look up some of these names you have provided and see if i can compile some pictures .......thanks for the intel. this topic is the kind of topic which makes you nauseous, i want to ignore it and think about something else but i cant............ Evin is the longest standing monmument to torture which bridges revoulution & government, i hope and pray that i see it burnt to thr ground within my lifetime.

Makes two of us.