QUEIROZ vs BRANCO Discussion!

[Tehranto]

Well if context matters, then does it matter that we played Angola after already being eliminated. ie we didn’t really have anything to play for. Does it also matter than 3 of our key players were injured before the World Cup.

And when did Angola all of the sudden become the worst team in WC history. They drew Mexico and just barely lost to Portugal. Were they worst than the likes of 8-0 Saudi Arabia China Togo Tunisia Honduras Panama etc etc. Or are we just gonna make them seem weak because it serves some anti-Branko agenda.

My point exactly. The only time in our history in the World Cup where the last game was inconsequential. The guys were so out of shape under Branko, that they almost always gassed by minute 65 against anyone of value - and would make terrible mental mistakes.

The discord around TM camp was legendary, I remember on all of the forums (here, ISP, Iran Kicks) - the soap opera and the divisions within the camp, i.e. younger guys not mixing with the older guys because Ali Karimi and Ali Daei had issues. It was terrible. Who remembers also, during the Asian Cup when Ali Badavi and Rahman Rezaei slapped each other around.
It seems now he has balls cause he is shielding himself Iran's biggest club.

Also, there is a problem within the Persepolisi culture - it's not nice to say, but they are a bit na-deed (no Asian club championship). They have one guy who got them to the final (in a year where Saudi clubs invested all their resources into preparing for the World Cup and not giving two sh*ts about the ACL), and now he is some genius. Come on man ...

Never forget this ... now this Ali Karimi is kissing Branko's ass. 🐍

[paas]

Read K.Nader's response above - it addresses this delusion. Stats matter, but context matters more.

Branko struggled and almost lost vs. the worst World Cup team in the last 20 years (Angola), with the likes of Daei, Hashemian, Karimi, Nekonaum, Teymourian and Mahdavikia.

He is terrible and would not get a job outside Iran, and has not been able to find a job outside Iran since 2013. Carlos is being linked to one of the best teams in the world in Colombia.

Well if context matters, then does it matter that we played Angola after already being eliminated. ie we didn’t really have anything to play for. Does it also matter than 3 of our key players were injured before the World Cup.

And when did Angola all of the sudden become the worst team in WC history. They drew Mexico and just barely lost to Portugal. Were they worst than the likes of 8-0 Saudi Arabia China Togo Tunisia Honduras Panama etc etc. Or are we just gonna make them seem weak because it serves some anti-Branko agenda.

[Tehranto]

I don’t think you understand. Stats don’t matter!!
Especially when they favor Branko.
Now, if they don’t favor Branko or favor CQ, then they matter very much.
In fact in those cases it’s all about the numbers.
Get it?

Read K.Nader's response above - it addresses this delusion. Stats matter, but context matters more.

Branko struggled and almost lost vs. the worst World Cup team in the last 20 years (Angola), with the likes of Daei, Hashemian, Karimi, Nekonaum, Teymourian and Mahdavikia.

He is terrible and would not get a job outside Iran, and has not been able to find a job outside Iran since 2013. Carlos is being linked to one of the best teams in the world in Colombia.

[paas]

Your first sentence I agree with as for the rest:

He won the Chinese league setting record with Shandong Luneng, With Ettifaq he qualified a never relevant team to ACL (they lost to Esteghlal), Dinamo Zagreb he won the double. He has won two titles with Perspolis (should have been 3 PP was robbed) and an ACL final...But most importantly:

I don’t think you understand. Stats don’t matter!!
Especially when they favor Branko.

Now, if they don’t favor Branko or favor CQ, then they matter very much.
In fact in those cases it’s all about the numbers.

Get it?

[K. Nader]

Lol at the anti Branko members. LOL How incorrect can people be and still insist. People use all kinds of assumptions and interpretations to nullify stats. I hope CQ is able to give his fans and more importantly TM fans something to cherish and talk about. Other than the two world cup qualification of course since we should value all the great results by our coaches and TM.

"His fans"? You are aware that "his fans" are the ones that prioritize Team Melli above clubs, right? It's the Persepolisi contingent that have gone viral with the 'Team Mellie Man Persepolise' nonsense.

Secondly, why are you posting selective statistics? The FIFA ranking formula was changed shortly after the 2006 WC and again after the 2018 WC. When you're not using like-for-like metrics, that argument is irrelevant.

In a nutshell, yes, Branko won several trophies with Iran (Asian Games, WAFF, 3rd place Asian Cup) but he was a tactically incompetent and inflexible manager that relied on the brilliance of individual players. He made no effort to give the team an identity, nor did he make any effort to nurture the next generation to ensure Team Melli's continued success. Lastly, he did nothing to improve the culture or infrastructure of football in Iran; maybe it's not necessarily a national team's coach to do so but either way, Branko was and is incapable of doing so.

CQ has been the opposite; on the trophies front, he has not won any (although I argue that the only tournament that he is in a position to win is the Asian Cup). That said, he has given the team an identity which is now globally recognized through quality World Cup performances that receive 100x the international attention of the Asian Cup, Asian Games, etc. We have world class ex-footballers and pundits praising the team and the capabilities of the team. CQ has done all this while tailoring a new generation of Team Melli footballers (most of which won't even peak for another 4-5 years) and revolutionizing our physical and mental conditioning. He has done this through initiatives such as PEC, bringing in world class staff, and yes, by being hot-headed and openly making demands until they are actually met.

Alternatively, I think the demand for Team Melli to win is a laughable one. Think of it this way: TM competes with the national teams of countries all over the world (but primarily those in Asia). All these nations have their own initiatives to improve their football so regardless of what we do in Iran, they will push forward. Post 2006 showed signs of what happens when you don't keep up and we had essentially become a tier 2 Asian side. As a modern coach with modern methods, CQ has built a side capable of playing modern football; it's even more amazing when you consider how we are practically a tier 3 Asian side at almost all of the youth levels. Those same players that can't beat the likes of Vietnam at the Asian Games will come into CQ's system to successfully compete against the likes of Chile, Spain, Portugal, and others one day.

In contrast, Persepolis is an Iranian club and aside from the ACL, their primary opposition are Iranian clubs. As the 'Real Madrid' or 'Manchester United' equivalent of Iran, their pockets are filled more than 95% of all Iranian clubs and they can attract just about nearly any Iranian player that they want. Despite this, following Ghotbi's era, they have spent millions on top footballers in the league only to throw them in the trash several months later, recycled through 12 managers in 7 years (2008 - 2015), and have done nearly nothing to nurture youth players and improve their infrastructure. Despite having the greatest means, they produced the least for the better part of 7-8 years. If anything, since they are in an environment that is comparable to their opposition, it is Persepolis that MUST be getting results on a regular basis considering that they have greater means. The same can't be said of national teams since each one operates in its own sphere and the actions which take place within those sphere determine success when sides collide.

[IranPuma]

Your first sentence I agree with as for the rest:

He won the Chinese league setting record with Shandong Luneng, With Ettifaq he qualified a never relevant team to ACL (they lost to Esteghlal), Dinamo Zagreb he won the double. He has won two titles with Perspolis (should have been 3 PP was robbed) and an ACL final...But most importantly:

93 games vs 42....statistically speaking the whole thing is skewed. Plus with a lot of more qualifiers for Asian Cup and the World Cup against low tier Asian teams on hand of course the rankings of his opponents appear lower.

Looking at the state of Team Melli and the players available to both coaches when they took over, how in the world can anyone argue pro Branko and use these statistics as their backing point? Really

[tooleh khers]

LMAO at your persistence.

Here's his record since Jan. 2008 / after Dinamo Zagreb.

Jobless from Jan 2008 (after being let go from Dinamo Zagreb) until April 2010

Shandong Luneng - April 2010 - July 2011 (1 yr and 3 months)
36 matches, 21 wins, 10 draws, 5 losses
58% Win Ratio

Ettifaq - July 2011 - April 2012 (9 months)
52 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
42% Win Ratio

Al-Wahda July 2012 - April 2013 (9 months)
34 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
53% Win Ratio

Dinamo Zagreb - Sep. 2013 - October 2013 (1 month)
5 matches, 2 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses
40% Win Ratio

Jobless from October 2013 - April 2015 (Perspolis Debut)

Your first sentence I agree with as for the rest:

He won the Chinese league setting record with Shandong Luneng, With Ettifaq he qualified a never relevant team to ACL (they lost to Esteghlal), Dinamo Zagreb he won the double. He has won two titles with Perspolis (should have been 3 PP was robbed) and an ACL final...But most importantly:

[Roxanaz80]

Was thinking...good thing we don't have koli talk shows or reality tv programs in Iran. This whole discussion would take on a whole new proportion.

Imagine WAGS, Iranian style...Branko liked my Gormeh Sabzi more than hers...she can't even cook etc... CQ fagadr khooneyeh ma miadesh....hija nemireh...

help!

[DR Strangemoosh]

Guys I wasn't even talking about Branko's record for Dynamo Zagreb. I was talking about what he did when he was TM manager with his contacts at the club and how it impacted the young player who was the most promising at the time and still our youngest IPL player-of-the-year winner - some people need to google what "football bung" means....

Anyway, anyone who says that Branko's "with one TM player we reached the...." comments isn't something which is meant to take away from any TM success, needs to wake up a bit. I don't agree with what the style that CQ talks to the media, but the sentiment is completely right about Professor Poison.

[Pouya]

Lol at the anti Branko members. LOL How incorrect can people be and still insist. People use all kinds of assumptions and interpretations to nullify stats. I hope CQ is able to give his fans and more importantly TM fans something to cherish and talk about. Other than the two world cup qualification of course since we should value all the great results by our coaches and TM.

LMAO at your persistence.

Here's his record since Jan. 2008 / after Dinamo Zagreb.

Jobless from Jan 2008 (after being let go from Dinamo Zagreb) until April 2010

Shandong Luneng - April 2010 - July 2011 (1 yr and 3 months)
36 matches, 21 wins, 10 draws, 5 losses
58% Win Ratio

Ettifaq - July 2011 - April 2012 (9 months)
52 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
42% Win Ratio

Al-Wahda July 2012 - April 2013 (9 months)
34 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
53% Win Ratio

Dinamo Zagreb - Sep. 2013 - October 2013 (1 month)
5 matches, 2 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses
40% Win Ratio

Jobless from October 2013 - April 2015 (Perspolis Debut)

[tooleh khers]

Failed in 2006 at Dynamo Zagreb?
He had an undefeated record of 26-2-0 and won the double that season.

I wouldn’t really call that a failure but it was Branko so I guess it must've a failure by definition.

Lol at the anti Branko members. LOL How incorrect can people be and still insist. People use all kinds of assumptions and interpretations to nullify stats. I hope CQ is able to give his fans and more importantly TM fans something to cherish and talk about. Other than the two world cup qualification of course since we should value all the great results by our coaches and TM.

[ramingeles2000]

branko vs cq, one thing we can all agree on is that GN took the best TM ever to the asian cup in 07 and we got shat on

what?? that 2007 team sucked balls.

[paas]

https://www.croatiaweek.com/dinamo-z...h-in-2-months/





He had more than one stint at Zagreb, one was in '06-'07, where Zagreb won the Croatian championship, as well as the link which I posted, where his team lost 5 out of only 8 matches under his tenure.

Due to the poor performances, the team's management fired him after just 8 matches. It's simply a mischaracterization, perhaps deliberately so, to refer only to one season, but exclude the other where he was fired after only 8 matches in which he lost 5 games.

Prior to returning to Iran in April 2015, he was unemployed and club-less since October 2013.

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post about his record in the 2006-2007 season with Dynamo Zagreb.
That was a response to someone else who (I thought) said he failed in 2006 with Zagreb.

[Abedzadeh]

https://www.croatiaweek.com/dinamo-z...h-in-2-months/

Dinamo Zagreb have sacked their coach Branko Ivanković after just 8 games in charge and two days ahead of their Europa League match with PSV.

Ivanković was the second coach to be shown the door this season by Dinamo Zagreb and the 3rd inside a year. Ivanković has had a miserable couple months at the Zagreb club, losing 5 of the last 8 matches and seeing Hajduk Split take over them at the top of table, albeit on goal difference. (pic: 24sata)

He had more than one stint at Zagreb, one was in '06-'07, where Zagreb won the Croatian championship, as well as the link which I posted, where his team lost 5 out of only 8 matches under his tenure.

Due to the poor performances, the team's management fired him after just 8 matches. It's simply a mischaracterization, perhaps deliberately so, to refer only to one season, but exclude the other where he was fired after only 8 matches in which he lost 5 games.

Prior to returning to Iran in April 2015, he was unemployed and club-less since October 2013.

[Leicester City]

She has not made any embarrassing mistakes. Whatever we get next I hope He performs above and exceeds our expectations.

tooleh khers is a girl, not a guy!