QUEIROZ vs BRANCO Discussion!

[Afat11]

Branko inherited a team that had many of the Stars of 1998 World Cup + Ali Karimi, Nekounam, etc.

CQ inherited a team that missed 2010 World Cup, with a star-studded cast of Mohammad and Pejman Nouri, Gholamreza Rezaei, etc.

If you gave Sir Alex himself that team, I think he’d have a handful of losses in there. If any of you are dense enough to believe that Branko could do the same, and build and find the players CQ has, you’re delusional. Don’t forget the backlash CQ got for suggesting bringing Dejagah, Gucci, and Davari to the team. Branko would have pissed his pants at the thought of losing Rahmati...

Comparing “Professor” to CQ is like comparing a ford to a Ferrari. The fact that you don’t see what Branko wasted and squandered, compared to what CQ built essentially from scratch is truly sad and shows the inherent bias.

[Corey]

@beeve,
Techical abilities are not built in TM. They are built on youth level. There is not much you can do at that late stage. So the 2006 team had better technical players, especially Karimi/Mahdavikia/Zandi...but that was not Brankos work. He just got lucky to work with the golden generation.
Regarding CQ i totally agree...

[Corey]

@ toole khers,
With all due respect: It is not up to you to decide who is true TM and who is not. We need to stop this bs judging who is true TM supporter, who is not, who is true Iranian, who is not, who is true Muslim, who is not. It has fucked our country. If you support TM - great. But speak for yourself. Don t think you know everybody...

[DR Strangemoosh]

Jalal Talebi was a better coach than Ivic

#Statsareking
#Buildingmeansnothing

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[perspolis#1]

but stats are king.

Stats can be taken to show whatever the user wants.

Most points in a world cup: 4

Only coach to ever get cleansheets in a world cup game for Iran(twice).

Only one to get us points versus a top10 european side

etc.

Lets not even delve into the performance stats for our games(Distance run, tackles, opportunities on goal) etc.

Anyway, you are right this is all opinion at the end of the day. Only thing that matters is we keep winning.

I will disagree with you on partybazi because if we ever want to take the next step to become the "Mexico"/Portugal/Uruguays of World football, we need to severely and harshly clamp down on partybazi(esp government interference).

[beevee]

Bottom line, CQ is a master TACTICIAN, while Branco is a very good TECHNICIAN.
Iran has always been very high level technically comparatively in Asia. We've had Daie, Mahdavikia, Ali Karimi, Bagheri etc.etc. they were all superior technical players to Asian standards. However we've never had a set Tactic. CQ changed that, now Iran has a style and tactic very much it's own that other Asian teams are copying which is very satisfying and respectful. In conclusion Iran was in a desperate need of a CQ to take the next step, where we are today is all owed to CQ whether you like it or not. Ba Tashakor.

[tooleh khers]

Hyperbole.

No one thinks Iran was like Bangladesh. CQ brought some things to Iranian football that we have never had(At least after the revolution). Accountability, physical training(and dieting), as well as a system. I rooted for Iran under GN, Ghotbi, Daei, Branko, and Ivic/Talebi. I know the defects we had as a team and they were never addressed because our football didn't have the source material that those in Europe have.

What I do know is the disconnect between prediction threads (6-0 we got this, 11-0 Iran goal for Mirazapour.) and heart attacks we would get everytime under other coaches whenever we had to play a Bahrain or UAE about grassrolling/partybazi/gaavbandi/high level conspiracy/poisoning our players. Then when the actual game comes a 0-0 tie or an individual goal taking us through. We haven't struggled with Arabs a lot since CQ took over and hopefully whoever the future coach is keeps these lessons.

A lot of our past football players(esp the ones in this argument) were individualistic great players. Our football was helped and also hindered by that mindset. CQ brought a system that increased team chemistry which is welcome. As someone who grew up a Manchester United fan, I appreciate when a coach beats his players over the head and makes sure its known no player is above the team.

As a Perspolisi I lament how many fans of the team have a full out vendetta against TM. Iranians are not in a position to put club football over the national team yet. There are forces that are trying to destroy our TM from the very first day CQ said there is corruption/partybazi in IFF. Whether Branko is complicit ,or at the very least aware, is unknown.

Hyperbole. There are no forces that try to destroy our TM. He has his system next coach will have his, he did not bring a system to our football that will stay. Those individualistic players would not be the same under CQ it is Branko's style to give players room and it is CQ style to give defined duties like forwards running back to our penalty box to defend. These are all opinions and at the end all of these tactics all of these "discipline" and the very reason we play this game or any game for that matter is results! If "partybazi" gets us better results than disciplined park the bus then so be it. In sports there are stats and that is the beauty and fairness about sports. You cannot take away stats. You can appreciate whatever you appreciate and think but stats are king.

[perspolis#1]

many in this thread cannot be labled TM fans since they pretend TM was Bangladesh before CQ came along; since they insult TM legends, ex players, ex coaches as oghdeyi nothing losers because the say something about CQ; Thanks.

Hyperbole.

No one thinks Iran was like Bangladesh. CQ brought some things to Iranian football that we have never had(At least after the revolution). Accountability, physical training(and dieting), as well as a system. I rooted for Iran under GN, Ghotbi, Daei, Branko, and Ivic/Talebi. I know the defects we had as a team and they were never addressed because our football didn't have the source material that those in Europe have.

What I do know is the disconnect between prediction threads (6-0 we got this, 11-0 Iran goal for Mirazapour.) and heart attacks we would get everytime under other coaches whenever we had to play a Bahrain or UAE about grassrolling/partybazi/gaavbandi/high level conspiracy/poisoning our players. Then when the actual game comes a 0-0 tie or an individual goal taking us through. We haven't struggled with Arabs a lot since CQ took over and hopefully whoever the future coach is keeps these lessons.

A lot of our past football players(esp the ones in this argument) were individualistic great players. Our football was helped and also hindered by that mindset. CQ brought a system that increased team chemistry which is welcome. As someone who grew up a Manchester United fan, I appreciate when a coach beats his players over the head and makes sure its known no player is above the team.

As a Perspolisi I lament how many fans of the team have a full out vendetta against TM. Iranians are not in a position to put club football over the national team yet. There are forces that are trying to destroy our TM from the very first day CQ said there is corruption/partybazi in IFF. Whether Branko is complicit ,or at the very least aware, is unknown.

[beevee]

93 games vs 42....statistically speaking the whole thing is skewed. Plus with a lot of more qualifiers for Asian Cup and the World Cup against low tier Asian teams on hand of course the rankings of his opponents appear lower.

Looking at the state of Team Melli and the players available to both coaches when they took over, how in the world can anyone argue pro Branko and use these statistics as their backing point? Really

I swear it feels like yesterday when Branko was the TM coach and everyone was calling for his head. Have we forgotten the debacle of players fighting each other? Players having zero discipline? Have forgotten the lack of motivation his teams were always blamed for?

[tooleh khers]

"His fans"? You are aware that "his fans" are the ones that prioritize Team Melli above clubs, right? It's the Persepolisi contingent that have gone viral with the 'Team Mellie Man Persepolise' nonsense.
Secondly, why are you posting selective statistics? The FIFA ranking formula was changed shortly after the 2006 WC and again after the 2018 WC. When you're not using like-for-like metrics, that argument is irrelevant.
In a nutshell, yes, Branko won several trophies with Iran (Asian Games, WAFF, 3rd place Asian Cup) but he was a tactically incompetent and inflexible manager that relied on the brilliance of individual players. He made no effort to give the team an identity, nor did he make any effort to nurture the next generation to ensure Team Melli's continued success. Lastly, he did nothing to improve the culture or infrastructure of football in Iran; maybe it's not necessarily a national team's coach to do so but either way, Branko was and is incapable of doing so.
CQ has been the opposite; on the trophies front, he has not won any (although I argue that the only tournament that he is in a position to win is the Asian Cup). That said, he has given the team an identity which is now globally recognized through quality World Cup performances that receive 100x the international attention of the Asian Cup, Asian Games, etc. We have world class ex-footballers and pundits praising the team and the capabilities of the team. CQ has done all this while tailoring a new generation of Team Melli footballers (most of which won't even peak for another 4-5 years) and revolutionizing our physical and mental conditioning. He has done this through initiatives such as PEC, bringing in world class staff, and yes, by being hot-headed and openly making demands until they are actually met.
Alternatively, I think the demand for Team Melli to win is a laughable one. Think of it this way: TM competes with the national teams of countries all over the world (but primarily those in Asia). All these nations have their own initiatives to improve their football so regardless of what we do in Iran, they will push forward. Post 2006 showed signs of what happens when you don't keep up and we had essentially become a tier 2 Asian side. As a modern coach with modern methods, CQ has built a side capable of playing modern football; it's even more amazing when you consider how we are practically a tier 3 Asian side at almost all of the youth levels. Those same players that can't beat the likes of Vietnam at the Asian Games will come into CQ's system to successfully compete against the likes of Chile, Spain, Portugal, and others one day.
In contrast, Persepolis is an Iranian club and aside from the ACL, their primary opposition are Iranian clubs. As the 'Real Madrid' or 'Manchester United' equivalent of Iran, their pockets are filled more than 95% of all Iranian clubs and they can attract just about nearly any Iranian player that they want. Despite this, following Ghotbi's era, they have spent millions on top footballers in the league only to throw them in the trash several months later, recycled through 12 managers in 7 years (2008 - 2015), and have done nearly nothing to nurture youth players and improve their infrastructure. Despite having the greatest means, they produced the least for the better part of 7-8 years. If anything, since they are in an environment that is comparable to their opposition, it is Persepolis that MUST be getting results on a regular basis considering that they have greater means. The same can't be said of national teams since each one operates in its own sphere and the actions which take place within those sphere determine success when sides collide.

Paas already gave you and everyone else in this thread a great reply so refer to his reply in the previous page. I will add one thing however regarding my comment about CQ fans. A lot of them and many in this thread cannot be labled TM fans since they pretend TM was Bangladesh before CQ came along; since they insult TM legends, ex players, ex coaches as oghdeyi nothing losers because the say something about CQ; since they belittle our teams trophies and records, current players just to assert that CQ is this great savior for our football. I and other members who are arguing for TM and actual stats are the real TM fans. We respect former coaches and players and our team and hope CQ is more successful than Branko and the previous coaches and hope the same for anyone who comes after. Many of your statements I respectfully disagree with and see them as your biased opinion as it was already pointed out to you that they are contrary to reality. Thanks.

[Roxanaz80]

On a positive note, both these guys are pretty much the same age: 65 and 64, and they look good for their age (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KIX3kb7Yxs btw)
At the world cup in Russia I was really shocked by how out-of-shape Iranian men are getting on average, especially after a certain age, and in particular I noticed the ones who lived in Emirates looked really unhealthy. This is just my experience but I feel Iranians who are 35+ are getting less and less fit and healthy and this is worrying.
I hope they look at these two coaches and subconsciously correlate losing weight, fitness with longevity and success...

Yes, they do look quite dapper and fit being in their 60s.
Interesting, should be continued in general discussion.

Long working hours, booze and a plate full of fruit after a heavy dinner late at night is pretty common...

It's not uniquely related to fitness, their fashion, hairstyle, general grooming tends to go downhill. Don't think it is limited to eastern men.
Some tend to be very demanding with their wives but nevermind when it comes to themselves. Not a good deal in the long run...

[Abedzadeh]

LMAO at your persistence.
Here's his record since Jan. 2008 / after Dinamo Zagreb.
Jobless from Jan 2008 (after being let go from Dinamo Zagreb) until April 2010
Shandong Luneng - April 2010 - July 2011 (1 yr and 3 months)
36 matches, 21 wins, 10 draws, 5 losses
58% Win Ratio
Ettifaq - July 2011 - April 2012 (9 months)
52 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
42% Win Ratio
Al-Wahda July 2012 - April 2013 (9 months)
34 matches, 18 wins, 3 draws, 13 losses
53% Win Ratio
Dinamo Zagreb - Sep. 2013 - October 2013 (1 month)
5 matches, 2 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses
40% Win Ratio
Jobless from October 2013 - April 2015 (Perspolis Debut)

It's worth noting that all these clubs fired him after only very short tenures.

Al-Wahda of the UAE originally signed him for a two-year contract, but since he disappointed, they axed him after only one year.

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/jos...coach-1.391790

Hickersberger was expected to arrive this morning and get to work immediately after Wahda parted company with Branko Ivankovic following a string of poor results.

Hickersberger replaces Ivankovic, who was dismissed after the team’s third consecutive league defeat and 11th in 23 games. The Croat was in the first year of a two-year deal and his last game in charge was a 4-3 home defeat to Ajman on Friday.

“It reached a point where Branko was unable to motivate the players and the management decided not to take any more chances, as we only have one title to play for now,” said Khaled Awadh, the assistant chief executive officer of the club.

It's actually reached the point now where some PP supporters are trying to reference statistics from crappy club teams in second-tier leagues (even by Asian standards), all of whom fired branko after very short term tenures, just to salvage his reputation. This is quite desperate, and very embarrassing to branko, not helpful.

[paas]

"His fans"? You are aware that "his fans" are the ones that prioritize Team Melli above clubs, right? It's the Persepolisi contingent that have gone viral with the 'Team Mellie Man Persepolise' nonsense.

And who is responsible for creating such an atmosphere? Branko is doing great thing with Perspolis and is very popular among the fans. CQ literally takes a shit on him every chance he gets. Consistent rude posts on Instagram and facebook. The interview after the WC. Even after beating Yemen he started the shit talking again saying something about Branko praising Iraq (which he didn’t) and something about Ukrainian players.

And him calling Ali Karimi (highly popular among Perspolis fans) a coward and Mr. Quitter doesn’t exactly help does it?

Secondly, why are you posting selective statistics? The FIFA ranking formula was changed shortly after the 2006 WC and again after the 2018 WC. When you're not using like-for-like metrics, that argument is irrelevant.

So you’re gonna dismiss a 32 average ranking difference on formula changes. Ok. Still doesn’t explain the Win% and Point%. But I’m sure someone will find something to dismiss that as well.

In a nutshell, yes, Branko won several trophies with Iran (Asian Games, WAFF, 3rd place Asian Cup) but he was a tactically incompetent and inflexible manager that relied on the brilliance of individual players.

Tactically incompetent and inflexible manager? Those are not really facts. They’re more like opinions. Probably unqualified opinions to be honest. Look back at the 2004 Asian cup. After the Oman game 3 of his starting 4 defenders got suspended. He literally had to switch around 3 positions mid tournament against Japan and Korea and still got us through. Even against Korea Taghipour got concussed in the 17th minute and we had to switch to a back 3 because we were out of defenders. Are these sign of a tactically incompetent and inflexible manager?
And lets not forget how we had to play 10 men for 75 minutes against host China in the semis. Did the team break down and concede 3 times? No.

And this whole thing about being dependent on the brilliance of players. You make it sound like Branko would just send them out and tell them to go and win. Have you ever wondered why teams spend hundreds of millions on transfer fees to buy players. If it was so simple they would just bring CQ and he would set up a fail proof system that doesn’t require good players.

Every coach in the world depends on their players to get results. Including CQ. You think you can just take out our best players and put in average ones and the team will somehow still get results.

He made no effort to give the team an identity,

Didn’t give the team an identity? Again I’m not sure what that means. Was he supposed to turn us into a “Park the Bus” team to give us an identity? I mean the stats show the actually did a good job and got results so I’m not sure what you mean here.

nor did he make any effort to nurture the next generation to ensure Team Melli's continued success.

Here is a list of players he brought onto his team and their respective age.

Nekunam - 22
Kaebi - 17
Ando - 22
Borhani - 20
Nosrati – 21
Madanchi – 21
Shojaei – 20
Navidkia – 20

These guys didn’t make the wc squad.
Badavi – 21
Kamei – 22
Mobali – 20
Rahmati – 20
Alavi – 21
Zare – 21

Lastly, he did nothing to improve the culture or infrastructure of football in Iran; maybe it's not necessarily a national team's coach to do so but either way, Branko was and is incapable of doing so.

Not his responsibility. It’s the federation’s job to do this. And I’ll tell you something, we are miles away from being where we are supposed to in terms of infrastructure. So CQ hasn’t exactly fixed our infrastructure either. But then again, its not his responsibility or within his power.

And saying Branko is incable of doing so is again your opinion. Fyi, he’s helping Perspolis develop a proper football academy right now. Hopefully it won’t take 8 years to get a proper field and gym equipment set up.

CQ has been the opposite; on the trophies front, he has not won any (although I argue that the only tournament that he is in a position to win is the Asian Cup). That said, he has given the team an identity which is now globally recognized through quality World Cup performances that receive 100x the international attention of the Asian Cup, Asian Games, etc.

What exactly is our identity? A “park the bus” defensive team.

I wouldn’t exactly call the 2014 WC “quality”. We were one of the worst team in the tournament. We parked the bus and didn’t get raped against Argentina. Quality? Really?
You’re entitled to your opinion.

2018 World cup was much better. But then again it was by far the best squad we have ever taken to the world cup. (yes 2006 the players were injured). The team was stacked and the depth was not even comparable to any other team we have ever had. Think about it, Kaveh Rezaei scored 16 goals + 6 assists in Belgium and didn’t even called up. Ghoddos was on the bench. Gucci, who was the 2nd highest goal scorer in Holland in 2016 didn’t even play. Neither did Dejagah (but he was injured so its understandable). I could go on.

Was parking the bus the best strategy? Well we got 4 points and with a little bit of luck might have gone through, but you could also argue that our win against Morocco was completely lucky and the PK against Portugal was actually the wrong call.

But something more important is that against Spain and Portugal we played much better when we weren’t parking the bus. A lot of pundits were also saying exactly that. They said if we could play like that then why weren’t we doing that from the beginning.
So the question is, was that the best performance we put out there given the level of talent at our disposal?

We have world class ex-footballers and pundits praising the team and the capabilities of the team. CQ has done all this while tailoring a new generation of Team Melli footballers (most of which won't even peak for another 4-5 years) and revolutionizing our physical and mental conditioning. He has done this through initiatives such as PEC, bringing in world class staff, and yes, by being hot-headed and openly making demands until they are actually met.

Well when you are the coach for 8 years its natural to have a generational shift. It’s not even an option really. Also as a national team coach, you only have the players at your disposal for very limited time periods. Most of player developments are done at the club level and not at the PEC with TM staff.

Alternatively, I think the demand for Team Melli to win is a laughable one. Think of it this way: TM competes with the national teams of countries all over the world (but primarily those in Asia). All these nations have their own initiatives to improve their football so regardless of what we do in Iran, they will push forward. Post 2006 showed signs of what happens when you don't keep up and we had essentially become a tier 2 Asian side. As a modern coach with modern methods, CQ has built a side capable of playing modern football; it's even more amazing when you consider how we are practically a tier 3 Asian side at almost all of the youth levels. Those same players that can't beat the likes of Vietnam at the Asian Games will come into CQ's system to successfully compete against the likes of Chile, Spain, Portugal, and others one day.

Iran was never a tier 2 Asian side. There may have been a time where mismanagement, appointing inexperience managers like Daei and Ghotbi, and consistently firing them overnight hurt TM. But Iran has always been one of the top 4 teams in Asia.

This whole narrative that Iran was a tier 2 or 3 team in Asia and CQ came and raised our level is a joke. Iran has always been an Asian powerhouse. You guys make it sound like we were India and CQ came and revolutionized our football and took us to the wc. We’re supposed to go to the wc.

Italy didn’t make it to the wc this time. Are they all of the sudden a tier 2 or 3 European side. Same with the US, are they a tier 2 concacaf team?

And you are right we (usually) don’t produce at the youth level. Do you know why? Because we spend all our resources on the senior team. That has always been the case. Before CQ, during CQ. Etc.

In contrast, Persepolis is an Iranian club and aside from the ACL, their primary opposition are Iranian clubs. As the 'Real Madrid' or 'Manchester United' equivalent of Iran, their pockets are filled more than 95% of all Iranian clubs and they can attract just about nearly any Iranian player that they want. Despite this, following Ghotbi's era, they have spent millions on top footballers in the league only to throw them in the trash several months later, recycled through 12 managers in 7 years (2008 - 2015), and have done nearly nothing to nurture youth players and improve their infrastructure. Despite having the greatest means, they produced the least for the better part of 7-8 years. If anything, since they are in an environment that is comparable to their opposition, it is Persepolis that MUST be getting results on a regular basis considering that they have greater means. The same can't be said of national teams since each one operates in its own sphere and the actions which take place within those sphere determine success when sides collide.

Perspolis’ pockets are filled more than 95% of all Iranian clubs?
Do you realize the difference in budget between Iranian clubs and Persian gulf clubs?

Perspolis has had a transfer ban for the last 2 windows and Branko still managed to take the team to the final. Look at all the key players they lost in the summer and couldn’t get anything in return.

Branko took the team to the semis two years ago and to the finals this year. Especially in a tournament where our teams tend to struggle in. A lot of times our teams don’t even get out of the group. Give credit where credit is due.

[DR Strangemoosh]

On a positive note, both these guys are pretty much the same age: 65 and 64, and they look good for their age (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KIX3kb7Yxs btw)

At the world cup in Russia I was really shocked by how out-of-shape Iranian men are getting on average, especially after a certain age, and in particular I noticed the ones who lived in Emirates looked really unhealthy. This is just my experience but I feel Iranians who are 35+ are getting less and less fit and healthy and this is worrying.

I hope they look at these two coaches and subconsciously correlate losing weight, fitness with longevity and success...

[Leopard]

Jerry Springer type discussion at this time is no fun. I would recommend freezing this thread and hide it till the cup is won by TM and brought home. Then you can all grab arrows and bows and fire at pictures of two coaches who have helped PP and the National team. Remember Jose , the situation was similar. eastern europe and Portugal have cultures that can lead to this type of situation. when a team does not want t give players to national team the coach looks bad no matter who he is or who he was. A club team's manager can lost his job so it is natural for him to argue and it is important for the national coach to ask for players and ignore the club manager. Remember Once GN was in battle with CQ also for the same reason.

These things are normal. Insulting is not and with the help of irani tabloids who keep on asking stupid questions to raise their rating the problem is escalated. If you guys care for TM just freeze and stop posting for another month on this thread. otherwise one can be hypocrite if he/she does nto follow what CQ said about Truce.