Is Queiroz failing?

[zzgloo]

^ my friend, I didnt say mine are "facts". mine are also opinions. however you'd find a large majority of people agreeing those kids ARE worthy of naming them as great prospects coming out of our league.

here I must truly wonder if you even watched the recent Omid team's games. and I dont mean the 4-5 minute highlights. the entire 90+ minutes. or if you do watch some of these kids' performances in IPL. I doubt it.
Yes DD jaa...I do see them....I did offer my assesment if you paid attention to what I wrote......the youth, are playing excelently,and as I mentioned, ( you can go back and check )they play with creativity !....they play just as comfortably as players do on street football, with great passing,unselfish plays, and avangard style............I how ever, said, we should look and pay attention why is it, they can not carry such freshness to the TM !

2- again, in my opinion the only player we havent re-produced is Daei. otherwise, just as kia, karimi, azizi, ... were the highlights of those years (late 90's and early 00's), we have plenty who are the highlights of today and are just as decisive and talented.

DD jaan, please, be responsive to the issue.....even if we accept the league has created talenst similar to the past ,which I totaly diasgree, still, you must admit, the gap in time of production has been too long !!..............what super talent have we produced in the last 8 years ?? .......do not tell me, there were there and we ignored them.......the talents must have been easy to ignore,


yes, you may find a small number of people who would refuse to accept this based on their opinion. some of these do so because they think CQ is perfect and if a player isnt included in CQ's list then automatically and by divine decree, that player is inferior!!!!!! we have a couple of such people here on the forum too. these chaps waste no time in putting down and degrading our own players as long as they can shield CQ from any criticism!!!
But I'd rather trust someone's opinion who thinks FOR THEMSELVES and is not merely an obedient follower of another man's thinking.

I agree, ....I do not think, CQ is perfect...I just think,our system sucks at this historical period....due to many reasons I offered....hence, we should realy not blame CQ.


3- legionnaires: I've discussed this issue on countless occasions. and frankly I dont see this a reliable basis to judge if we have talent or not. there are multitude of factors involved in a player (especially from iran with all its peripheral issues in the world) becoming a legionnaire. suffice to say that it is no indication to the presence or absence of talent or worthy players in iran

I take it you can not explain why

4- define "wonders". I think it is a wonder that kids while neglected and mistreated by most coaches (club and nat'l team) in Iran, still toil and display such talent when given a chance (as seen in the qatar tourney).


5- montazeri example. so in your view, there is no difference between montazeri's performances in ss and in TM?
a player has to perform as his coach asks. if the coach says go for the direct route and keep lobbing the ball up field as you get, and dont pass it to your DM or other mids, then he has to do that.
the same player can be asked by another coach to keep the ball and if given the chance, to build from the back by giving the ball to the midfield. and he has to do that too.
I thought the vast difference in montazeri's games is one of the best examples to show how a player can have such contrasting displays under different coaches.


6- "CQ's eloquent views on youth program". well as they say; talk is cheap. put your money where your mouth is. and CQ for all his claims and talk and early promises of "rejuvenating TM" and trusting the youth, hasnt done so.
we still had players aged 32-34-35 in his TM line ups when we had perfectly fine 23-25 year olds getting sidelined!


7- Sorry. I dont believe in this concept/thought process of "if a few parts of a whole go wrong, then we shd let the entire thing go". that's the easy & irresponsible way out.
if we can manage to get something right in the middle of 10 wrongs, then by all means we shd go for it.



but ultimately I am not here to convert you or anyone. neither am I here to win people over. each of us can go on believeing what we believe. I just think it is a very bleak and hopeless and sad picture to think Iran just doesnt have any talent just because CQ doesnt believe it. and I can only imagine this makes following TM that much harder for people who think this way. maybe this is why some people rejoice and jump up when we beat lowly teams like indonesia or mozambique or ... !

I believe we have far more potential in our midst and am quite positive. it's just that we dont get to see the best come out of our efforts.

Your beliefes, are nice, and petriotic !!....positive,and hopeful.....
mine,negative,yet realistic .......
you have written so many statements.............but, you keep avoiding to explain, why is it we have gotten behind for a long time, as others advanced.,
we have more players than they do,
we produce more talents than they do,
we spend as much or more of coaches than they do
we produce more players than they do....
we have more and better fans than they do ..
etc,etc
so, why is it ???.......
.other than what, I explained ?.....

your suggestion of one step forward,while going ten steps backward will not do it !

we need to stop, critisizing new hired coaches..such as CQ, and sheems ,if this if that....and others.....problems are far more profound !,and mostly politicaly based....just look at other organizations in IRAN



yet....you are my firend, and we could always agree to disagree...,if I had to lose you as a friend, for my opinion, I will lose my opinion, instead !!

[Doctor DOOM]

موج جدید انتقادها از سرمربی تیم ملی
جدول مرخصی ها کی روش
مسافرت های برون مرزی کارلوس کی*روش، موج جدیدی از انتقادها را علیه او به دنبال داشته است. او که تیمش در راند پایانی بازی*های انتخابی جام جهانی است، روزهایی دشوار را در پیش دارد.


سرمربی تیم ملی تا امروز حدود 750 روز است که با ایران قرارداد بسته است. او 266 روز از این مدت را خارج از ایران گذرانده است.

تعداد روزها	زمان مرخصی
52 روز	بعد از دیدار با اندونزی در جاکارتا ( سال 90)
45 روز	بعد از دیدار با اندونزی در تهران (سال 90)
38 روز	بعد از بازی با قطر (سال 91)
25 روز	از روز 30 بهمن تا 24 اسفند (سال 91)
20 روز	بعد از مسابقات غرب آسیا (سال 91)
18 روز	بعد از دیدار با ازبکستان و شکست مقابل این تیم (سال91)
15 روز	بعد از یک دیدار دیگر با ازبکستان (سال 91)
15 روز	بعد از دیدار با مالدیو (سال 90)
14 روز	قبل از رقابت*های غرب آسیا (سال 91)
7 روز	بعد از بازی با لبنان (سال 91)
17 روز	بعد از بازی ایران و کویت

266 days of vacation from a total 750!!!
that's about 40% give or take.
which job in the world allows this much vacation?

[Keano]

DD jaan, you're absolutely right, I concede. I acted out of frustration and agitation caused by the sloppy display of our clubs. You're absolutely right, the clubs performances shall not be the representatives of the respective countries' national team capabilities, mainly due to the fact that some clubs may employ some great foreign players, this way playing even above their national team's standards and level, KSA clubs are absolutely included within those countries!

Therefore Yashasin Zapata!

[Doctor DOOM]

I think the thread title should be changed to "Is Iran football in general failing/falling?"

Our teams keep getting spanked, thus bowing out of tournaments. The recent catastrophic series of defeats by our top 3 clubs of the past 2 years is a clear indication of our football decline. We are falling behind and fail to catch up day after day. It's not the coaches' fault either, our football is fundamentally faulty and screwed up and it's sinking deeper and deeper, it's a wrecked ship which is gradually sinking as result of a proper captain.

This week's ACL losses were just too painful for any Iranian football lover, Sepahan's 4-1 loss just like Perspolis' 5-1 loss to Al-Gharafa was one of the biggest embarrassing results of our teams in our history of Asian football, our best and by far most professional football club "Sepahan" conceding 8 goals from a Saudi team in 2 back to back matches was something unheard of. Do I blame Kranjar for this? hell no! Do I blame the league's organizers, well not really, what else are they supposed to do? the tight timings we have ahead of us won't leave us much room to schedule our games otherwise.

This whole generation of our football won't get us anywhere, time to build the future of our football, but under this regime? won't happen!

sorry. but you couldnt be more wrong in losing heart at this stage. and I think this is more like a knee jerk reaction to a very bad set of encounters in ACL games.

let me remind you all of the issues and differences between our WCQ's and the latest ACL results.

come on people. it's not as bad as you think.

first of all, while we all are shocked at our ACL results, we must be able to keep calm and distinguish between these particular ACL games and the WCQ's. there are a lot of differences.

1- these are clubs that rely heavily, nearly 80% of what they achieve is directly depending on their professional foreign imports from south america and africa and .. . while our clubs hardly rely on our imports (hell, in some cases our imports are the WORST/WEAKEST on the pitch! djalovic, suchak, lopez, ... )
but our national team is a totally different matter and has plenty of potential

2- the ACL opponents we've lost to are from saudi, who are head and shoulders above their qatari counterparts. so aside from their imports, their homegrown players are also incomparable with that of qatar's

3- remember the tight scheduling of our league games & hazfi ones is a factor that impacts our club players' stamina and energy. by the time we meet qatar in WCQ's, our league would be done with.

4- granted, we may have lost dejagah. But we may yet gain a couple of other assets. like Ghazi fully recovered after his injury.


besides, wait till the next ACL match day. I guarantee you'd see our clubs getting back on track against weaker qatari/uae clubs compared to saudi ones who, anyway, have usually done better than our clubs (more or less) in this stage of the competition.

let me, once again, reiterate our recent ACL flops have been against only 1 team for each of our clubs. these were home and away games against ONE team. it just means the SAUDI clubs are stronger than iranian clubs. that's all (now, I'd have agreed with you if our clubs lost a game to different teams consecutively).
and as far as I know we're not playing saudis. it is qatar who are much weaker than them

[St_Mark]

سرمربی الهلال: با 7 بازیکن زیر 22 سال استقلال را بردیم

[Mansoor]

Very nice and mature posts and feedback doostan. Just to quickly post that I enjoy reading such mature and well thought posts from different perspectives and point of views. Many thanks.

I'll post my feedback as soon as I get more time, but to add to our troubling stage and how "youth" could have come handy at this point, now the news is out there that Ashkan will be out for 3 month.

[Keano]

I think the thread title should be changed to "Is Iran football in general failing/falling?"

Our teams keep getting spanked, thus bowing out of tournaments. The recent catastrophic series of defeats by our top 3 clubs of the past 2 years is a clear indication of our football decline. We are falling behind and fail to catch up day after day. It's not the coaches' fault either, our football is fundamentally faulty and screwed up and it's sinking deeper and deeper, it's a wrecked ship which is gradually sinking as result of a proper captain.

This week's ACL losses were just too painful for any Iranian football lover, Sepahan's 4-1 loss just like Perspolis' 5-1 loss to Al-Gharafa was one of the biggest embarrassing results of our teams in our history of Asian football, our best and by far most professional football club "Sepahan" conceding 8 goals from a Saudi team in 2 back to back matches was something unheard of. Do I blame Kranjar for this? hell no! Do I blame the league's organizers, well not really, what else are they supposed to do? the tight timings we have ahead of us won't leave us much room to schedule our games otherwise.

This whole generation of our football won't get us anywhere, time to build the future of our football, but under this regime? won't happen!

[Dreamer]

I see things pretty much as does Mansoor here..!
Carlos relied way too heavily & for far too long on the fast aging & internationally experienced players, & as many woulda suspected it is beginning to bite him in the butt here towards the end of the campaign ..!
Unlike Doc, I think now it's way too late to try to bring in a handful of Omid players to inject some much needed energy & speed into our team..! There simply is not enough time to adequately incorporate these inexperienced youngsters into his highly favored, & seemingly equally Rigid 4-3-3 formation & overall game tactics which have proven difficult to break into & get accustomed to, especially by most of our promising youngsters in the very limited chances offered to them by CQ so far..!
I don't really buy too much into ZZ's blaming the effed up overall Iranian football for Carlos's relative failure to attain better result in our WCQ campaign so far, to me that's a cliche cop-out ..! Iran & it's football has been the same unorganized & chaotic shitt now for 3-4 decades ..! Nevertheless, I do agree that Carlos did take over our football @ it's overall lowest levels in years & had his work really cut out for him after 2 consecutive grossly undermanaged reigns of GN & Daie & another Little less failed reign of Ghotbi ..!
Carlos started the campaign well getting us out of the gutters of Asian football but as time has gone by, u can tell that his genuine effort levels @ improving our football has dropped significantly & like most other coaches, he is mostly concerned now with getting good enough results to keep his job & avoiding challenging friendlies or risky proposition of dropping or reducing playtime of some of popular older stars in favor of dressing up some youngsters who have shown some potential ..!
I still blame his played out formation & game approaches & believe the best short term fix would be a change in our playing style & formation & possibily showing more faith in one or two of our young players like omid Ebrahimi /haghighi, rahman or mosalmon ..!??to bring up the teams overall speed & energy levels ..!organize at least a friendly shortly prior to our Qatar encounter to fine tune things perhaps ..!?
If our key opponents don't slip up in their next game & we continue down the same exact path, then we are certainly doomed to failure..!

Honestly though, is our squad really that integrated and rigid if we look at it objectively?

Our goalkeeper is brand new (more or less), in terms of center backs, we have Hosseini who's been playing for years now, and Montazeri who joined recently. Left backs and right backs are somewhat up in the air as well, Mahini, Pouladi and Heydari have been constantly been switched around, with the occasional Hajsafi in the mix of things. Andranik and Nekounam have been set in stone, and other than Dejagah on the right, that's really it. We got Andranik, Nekounam, Dejagah and Hosseini fixed in the team. For the sake of argument, you could say Mahini and Heydari have been there too.

So, that leaves CQ with the choice of 6 players to add to the team, seeing as how the other players haven't been playing more than 5-6 back to back competitive matches each. Centerback players always are huge issues because it's paramount that they work together and know each other well.

Considering the plethora of players in the league that have had U23 experience as well as other young players that have been featured in Team Melli over the years (Gholami, Gholamnejad etc.), in my opinion it's not too late to have other players join the squad as they've had the experience of playing in Team Melli matches before.

I really don't understand CQ's decision making here. If it was me (of course I don't have an iota of his experience and what not), I would only see two choices ahead of me.

A) Change the formation and thus tactics etc. with the players I've already familiarized myself with.

B) Bring in new players and let them adapt to my system.

Of course, a combination of the two would be ideal, but from what I understand he isn't doing either. I honestly hope that he has some sort of trick up his sleeve, but from what we've been seeing there's been somewhere near zero changes.

I also don't think his work was cut out for him! In terms of national support, sure it was difficult, but really it's always been like that in Iran. Fan attendance at stadiums has always been a sinusoidal curve. I don't remember Ghalenoei's tenure properly, other than the dismal and pathetic Asian Cup performaces. Daei's tenure though, was progressive in my opinion.

The issue when it comes to media and expectations is that everyone always expects someone to be a hero and revolutionize everything. With Daei at the helm, it was on a whole other level, because he's such a huge figure his popularity also comes at a huge cost. With the whole Ali Karimi fiasco at the time, and the idiotic 3 month "temporary" caretaker business, he wasn't in the best position. Take a look at the statistics now, and he actually had a great performance for the 370 days that he was in control. 15 wins, 6 draws and 3 losses. What's even more funny, is that we didn't have many famous young names as we have now (Rahmani, Y. Karimi etc.). Yet, despite all of this, seeing as his tactics weren't working, he invited a bunch of different players.

I don't really have much time to post up all the names, but here are two squads that he invited:
This one is for Kenya: Goalkeepers: Seyed Mehdi Rahmati, Vahid Taleblou, Mohamad Mohammadi
Defenders: Seyed Jalal Hosseini, Hadi Aghili, Khosro Heidari, Ali Hamoudi, Hossein Kaebi, Majid Gholamnejad, Sattar Zareh, Mohsen Bengar, Hasan Ashjari, Sheys Rezaei
Midfielders: Maziar Zareh, Hossein Kazemi, Reza Khalatbari, Mohamad Nouri, Ehsan Hajsafi, Ahmad Jamshidian, Mehrzad Madanchi, Masoud Shojaei, Javad Nekounam, Mehdi Mahdavikia
Strikers: Gholamreza Rezaei, Jalal Rafkhaei, Siavash Akbarpour and Vahid Hashemian.

And the following is for Singapore and China:
Vahid Talebloo, Mehdi Rahmati, Rahman Ahmadi, Seyed Jalal Hosseini, Hadi Aghili, Mohsen Bengar, Pirouz Ghorbani, Hassan Ashjari, Sattar Zare, Hossein Kaebi, Majid Gholamnejad, Khosro Heydari, Javad Nekounam, Maziar Zare, Kianoush Rahmati, Karim Bagheri, Mohammad Nouri, Masoud Shojaei, Mohammadreza Khalatbari
, Meysam Baou, Ehsan Hajsafi, Mehrzad Madanchi, Gholamreza Rezaei, Seyed Mehdi Seyed Salahi, Arash Borhani, Vahid Hashemian.

Now I know that anything with Daei get's lots of passionate opponents and proponents, but based on just the squads above, you really need to give it to the guy. There was no Kazemi, no Mohammad Nouri (former U23 player at that time), no Ashjari, no Bengar, no Khalatbari, no Rafkhaei, no Jamshidian, no Kianoush Rahmati, no ALI HAMOUDI (guess where he plays now?!) etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above names btw.

He had and still has an eye for talent that just went over our heads, me included. He invited players that we are still arguing about inviting now, like Jamshidian. CQ's biggest contribution in this department has been ... Dejagah. A big accomplishment truly, but then again, Dejagah was already set to join before CQ came around. He hasn't really brought any players, other than Mahini and Pouladi maybe + Montazeri. Daei saw talents that have emerged now, CQ hasn't, and what's ironic I guess is that CQ was poised to be the one to discover our "golden generation" while we had someone doing that already.

But as you said at the end of your post, CQ just needs to invite players like Mosalman or Ebrahimi. It's still a huge mystery to me as to why Afshin hasn't got proper playing time yet.

Also, zz jan, I don't really agree with you on the point saying that we don't really have talent. All our 98 talents were nobody's when they called up. Great coaches often invite players that not a lot of people expect, who end up performing great (also why I think Daei is a great coach and has huge potential). Minavand, Mahdavikia, Pashazadeh etc. all these guys were in their very early 20s when they got their first caps and started performing well. I'll post some older squads in a different post, showing how old they were when they made their senior debut. We've got some unprecedented things going on in our football right now, such as a very promising youngster joining a respected foreign team (Azmoun!!) as well as our first goalie legionnaire (Haghighi!). We have some fantastic talents and we've always had (Kaebi was 17 when invited), it's really up to the coach to exploit them.

Has CQ failed us? I think so. He got some big results (5-0 etc.) but did they bring anything to us? Not in my opinion. Then again, we always put ourselves in tough positions. It's just that usually we get into tough positions cause of our attitude, not our formation or tactics (for the most part). This time it seems to be a combination of the two.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ Not a handful.

I guess given the remaining 3 games and considering the time left, we can add about 2, ebrahimi (for an alternative for our slow, low energy and error-prone DM) and perhaps one more midfielder (either rahmani or mosalman) as subs for our main players, to come in with new/fresh ideas of attack but with some injection of energy and running too.
this is given our present constraints.


but if we had acted on this say about 2-3 months back or better yet, right after the lebanon game, I'd say include 2 or even 3 (the above-mentioned two plus either haghighi or yaghoub karimi or ...) of the youngsters




if you notice, most of the changes I'd like to see are in the midfield becuase our midfield's work-rate has been pitiful and disastrous in many games. and one of the reasons we look impotent in our attacks and vulnerable in defense is because of our slow, aging midfield that is devoid of creativity as well.


*************

btw, I'd also include at least one (if not two) tall strikers to the team. that is imperative. but our options are limited to 27-28 year olds like ghazi &/or salehi (sorry ss fans. but hatami is simply not on par with these two). I wish ansarifard would man up and stop being such a sissy. such a waste of physique and skills!!

TM without a tall forward is only limiting its own options and risks becoming predictable in attacks!

[BacheLot]

I see things pretty much as does Mansoor here..!
Carlos relied way too heavily & for far too long on the fast aging & internationally experienced players, & as many woulda suspected it is beginning to bite him in the butt here towards the end of the campaign ..!
Unlike Doc, I think now it's way too late to try to bring in a handful of Omid players to inject some much needed energy & speed into our team..! There simply is not enough time to adequately incorporate these inexperienced youngsters into his highly favored, & seemingly equally Rigid 4-3-3 formation & overall game tactics which have proven difficult to break into & get accustomed to, especially by most of our promising youngsters in the very limited chances offered to them by CQ so far..!
I don't really buy too much into ZZ's blaming the effed up overall Iranian football for Carlos's relative failure to attain better result in our WCQ campaign so far, to me that's a cliche cop-out ..! Iran & it's football has been the same unorganized & chaotic shitt now for 3-4 decades ..! Nevertheless, I do agree that Carlos did take over our football @ it's overall lowest levels in years & had his work really cut out for him after 2 consecutive grossly undermanaged reigns of GN & Daie & another Little less failed reign of Ghotbi ..!

Carlos started the campaign well getting us out of the gutters of Asian football but as time has gone by, u can tell that his genuine effort levels @ improving our football has dropped significantly & like most other coaches, he is mostly concerned now with getting good enough results to keep his job & avoiding challenging friendlies or risky proposition of dropping or reducing playtime of some of popular older stars in favor of dressing up some youngsters who have shown some potential ..!
I still blame his played out formation & game approaches & believe the best short term fix would be a change in our playing style & formation & possibily showing more faith in one or two of our young players like omid Ebrahimi /haghighi, rahman or mosalmon ..!??to bring up the teams overall speed & energy levels ..!organize at least a friendly shortly prior to our Qatar encounter to fine tune things perhaps ..!?
If our key opponents don't slip up in their next game & we continue down the same exact path, then we are certainly doomed to failure..!

[Doctor DOOM]

^ my friend, I didnt say mine are "facts". mine are also opinions. however you'd find a large majority of people agreeing those kids ARE worthy of naming them as great prospects coming out of our league.

here I must truly wonder if you even watched the recent Omid team's games. and I dont mean the 4-5 minute highlights. the entire 90+ minutes. or if you do watch some of these kids' performances in IPL. I doubt it.


2- again, in my opinion the only player we havent re-produced is Daei. otherwise, just as kia, karimi, azizi, ... were the highlights of those years (late 90's and early 00's), we have plenty who are the highlights of today and are just as decisive and talented.


yes, you may find a small number of people who would refuse to accept this based on their opinion. some of these do so because they think CQ is perfect and if a player isnt included in CQ's list then automatically and by divine decree, that player is inferior!!!!!! we have a couple of such people here on the forum too. these chaps waste no time in putting down and degrading our own players as long as they can shield CQ from any criticism!!!
But I'd rather trust someone's opinion who thinks FOR THEMSELVES and is not merely an obedient follower of another man's thinking.


3- legionnaires: I've discussed this issue on countless occasions. and frankly I dont see this a reliable basis to judge if we have talent or not. there are multitude of factors involved in a player (especially from iran with all its peripheral issues in the world) becoming a legionnaire. suffice to say that it is no indication to the presence or absence of talent or worthy players in iran


4- define "wonders". I think it is a wonder that kids while neglected and mistreated by most coaches (club and nat'l team) in Iran, still toil and display such talent when given a chance (as seen in the qatar tourney).


5- montazeri example. so in your view, there is no difference between montazeri's performances in ss and in TM?
a player has to perform as his coach asks. if the coach says go for the direct route and keep lobbing the ball up field as you get, and dont pass it to your DM or other mids, then he has to do that.
the same player can be asked by another coach to keep the ball and if given the chance, to build from the back by giving the ball to the midfield. and he has to do that too.
I thought the vast difference in montazeri's games is one of the best examples to show how a player can have such contrasting displays under different coaches.


6- "CQ's eloquent views on youth program". well as they say; talk is cheap. put your money where your mouth is. and CQ for all his claims and talk and early promises of "rejuvenating TM" and trusting the youth, hasnt done so.
we still had players aged 32-34-35 in his TM line ups when we had perfectly fine 23-25 year olds getting sidelined!


7- Sorry. I dont believe in this concept/thought process of "if a few parts of a whole go wrong, then we shd let the entire thing go". that's the easy & irresponsible way out.
if we can manage to get something right in the middle of 10 wrongs, then by all means we shd go for it.



but ultimately I am not here to convert you or anyone. neither am I here to win people over. each of us can go on believeing what we believe. I just think it is a very bleak and hopeless and sad picture to think Iran just doesnt have any talent just because CQ doesnt believe it. and I can only imagine this makes following TM that much harder for people who think this way. maybe this is why some people rejoice and jump up when we beat lowly teams like indonesia or mozambique or ... !

I believe we have far more potential in our midst and am quite positive. it's just that we dont get to see the best come out of our efforts.

[zzgloo]

^ bahram jan, I just dont see how some of you guys say the league is not producing or is in a slump or ... when we have youngsters like jahanbakhsh, yaghoub karimi, lakk, karami, khanzadeh, haghighi, ... etc.


so by repeating the same thing 10 times over despite evidence to the contrary does not make it become reality. The fact is that our league has been and is still producing good number of prospects each and every season. so lets not insist on something that has little basis in reality.

Payman Jaan....you are being very unfair here....calling my opinion, repetitiouse and yours ' The Fact "........I support my opinion by these reasonings :
1- We have not been able to replace Ali daie,Karimi,mahdavikia,Hashemian,etc,etc..in recent years .
2- We have not had many legioners in recent years,either in europe or gulf area
3-Those youth invitations by Ali daie, and CQ,and others have not produced any " wonders ! "
4-Iranian football has fallen behind........
...........................................Now, after my repetitiouse unfounded reasonings...lets see your fact !!( other than your own opinion ) the fact that have elluded CQ

now, to answer your questions:

1- could it be that the COACHES ask different things from the players. a vivid example of this is montazri's performances in ss (where he keeps the ball on the ground and runs with it confidently far more) and his TM (where he lobs the ball upfield far too many times).
.
No,it can not be....the reasonns are we do not have developmental strategies, for our youth..and they bring thier own street football talents to the youth games, and no one helps them develope ,and they get stagnated

2- maybe if they are trusted more, they wouldnt lose motivation or drive and stagnate. but if we keep on sticking to players up to ages of 33-34 and refuse to bring in younger ones, I'm afraid you will see negative repercussions.
I fear players like ebrahimi, rahmani, .. who have been doing well for 2-3 seasons and still dont see this trust, will eventually lose motivation and drive (as we say, become "sar khordeh" ) and join the ranks of many ignnored/neglected talents in years before!!
.
again....as CQ so elequently said, we need youth programs,and we need to have programs that would give internariuonal expeince to the youth



3- that is a cultural thing. and thankfully is NOT spread throughout iran. basically more in the popular clubs than in the other clubs. nothing is as it shd be in Iran, and the disproportionate & imbalanced attention and adoration piled on certain clubs players allows these kids (who usually come from very poor backgrounds and suddenly find themselves swimming in money) lose their bearing.
but thankfully you dont see this as prevalent in smaller clubs or shahrestani teams
.

It is partialy cultural, but it is mostly the result of " propaganda system, that players are not accountable for thier actions....and the system patronizes fans to keep them away from streets


4- again, false premise. no matter how many times we say it.
I am still waiting to see your " facts " the facts that have elluded CQ and other coaches.

5- well, because as you said, it is indeed f**ked up. and anything that screwd up shd be changed. and there's no place to go by up.
Because, our football is in fact as ****ed up as all other aspects of government control organizations in IRAN..and we should expect accordingly

6- bad handling, bad management, lack of trust in our own potential, ... etc

Because of ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN



therefore, considering the circumstances, I think CQ better start taking more interest in our football and league and start paying attention to what we have on offer. ALL OF IT. but for that to happen, the bugger ought to stay put in Iran and actually do his duty of keeping our clubs under observation. in other words, EARN HIS PAY.
so ....

Our football system is sick...it is under developed,propaganda based, susedized,patronizing, over paying,no accountability system.....managed by people out side of football.......
Untill these change we will continue to have a sick football.....
And that is why, you and mansour and similar thinking individuals ( well wishing intelectuals with true football knowlledge ), should not get too fancy with your ideas about Iranian football

[Doctor DOOM]

^ bahram jan, I just dont see how some of you guys say the league is not producing or is in a slump or ... when we have youngsters like jahanbakhsh, yaghoub karimi, lakk, karami, khanzadeh, haghighi, ... etc.

so by repeating the same thing 10 times over despite evidence to the contrary does not make it become reality. The fact is that our league has been and is still producing good number of prospects each and every season. so lets not insist on something that has little basis in reality.

now, to answer your questions:

1- could it be that the COACHES ask different things from the players. a vivid example of this is montazri's performances in ss (where he keeps the ball on the ground and runs with it confidently far more) and his TM (where he lobs the ball upfield far too many times).

2- maybe if they are trusted more, they wouldnt lose motivation or drive and stagnate. but if we keep on sticking to players up to ages of 33-34 and refuse to bring in younger ones, I'm afraid you will see negative repercussions.
I fear players like ebrahimi, rahmani, .. who have been doing well for 2-3 seasons and still dont see this trust, will eventually lose motivation and drive (as we say, become "sar khordeh" ) and join the ranks of many ignnored/neglected talents in years before!!


3- that is a cultural thing. and thankfully is NOT spread throughout iran. basically more in the popular clubs than in the other clubs. nothing is as it shd be in Iran, and the disproportionate & imbalanced attention and adoration piled on certain clubs players allows these kids (who usually come from very poor backgrounds and suddenly find themselves swimming in money) lose their bearing.
but thankfully you dont see this as prevalent in smaller clubs or shahrestani teams


4- again, false premise. no matter how many times we say it.

5- well, because as you said, it is indeed f**ked up. and anything that screwd up shd be changed. and there's no place to go by up.

6- bad handling, bad management, lack of trust in our own potential, ... etc



therefore, considering the circumstances, I think CQ better start taking more interest in our football and league and start paying attention to what we have on offer. ALL OF IT. but for that to happen, the bugger ought to stay put in Iran and actually do his duty of keeping our clubs under observation. in other words, EARN HIS PAY.
so ....

[zzgloo]

I am assuming "there are some young players,currantly in our league..who would change everything for us..."?

No, doosteh man, such assumption is exaggeration of what I tried to say earlier.

No single factor in football can "change everything", especially the state we are in. Football is achieved through combination of several important factors. One of which is including youth to BRING IN ENERGY, SPIRIT, MOTIVATION, SPEED, to name a few. That is one of many factors that "could" lead to success (but not necessarily).

Does Carlos believe including youth can bring in "a factor" to help us? Apparently not! It is not the particular talented player that is in question, it is his approach. It is not a player or two that I see from long distance and yet an experienced well-known coach can not see from short distance! It is his belief.
Mansour Jaan....I am sorry if I came across as an

His approach is to bring in all the foreign-based players, combine them with experienced players and look for result. It would have been no problem if he had achieved result. Or, he ends up achieving result. But we yet to see the result and we have our back to the wall.

My point from post one was he should have included youth in his program from early on to bring other factors that are missing from our current TM, specially speed, energy, and creativity in midfield.

Again, if you can't see that, I don't insist. But please don't change it to the point of exaggeration to prove a point.

Nobody here claims they have a "magic formula" to change the state of TM or our football. It is simply observations and point of views, some of which do not match the point of view of Carlos at the moment.

Mansour e aziz... and Payman e aziz
Please forgive me ,for not responding to your two seperate posts,individualy, as it would have possibly been redundant .
I am sorry if I came accross an " an exaggerator " !...it was not my intention...
and I do see your point,that had he understood our football well, his plan of action must have worked by now !!......
and I do admit my analysis of the situation is not very positive,nor is it football related....but,I still believe,it is the reality at hand !
....
The league,the Iranian football, the political situation,etc,etc...has been going through a " SLUMP ",in recent years....a " Slump " so profound, it can not be fixed by some exchange of players, or some " new blood "!!.....as the whole psycology,of Iranian players have been damaged....( or misdirected )....this Phenomena, has caused our football to get behind in Asia, this phenimena,has caused ourleague not to produce talenst as much,this phenomena has caused our good players to have bad attitude,and psycology,etc,etc,etc.
........
Your suggested strategies were tried under Ali daie, and Ghotbi to some extend...but,could not counter the slump the system is in.
...........................

I remember,about 15 years ago, under the Mr.Karbaschi ( Mayor of Tehran at the time ), city of Tehran, invited and hired a company from switzerland ,in City plannings, and Traffic plannings for the city of Tehran............after 6 months,of studies,,and analysis...the Swise company,in three page recommandation to " the city of Tehran ", suggested, the best plan is " to leave things alone "...as they thought, there were no logical solutions for city of Tehran.
...here are some questions....( I am sorry if my post is too long..)
.
1- Why our youth players, play so creative and with a higher class in youth games, but when coming to TM, they get conservative, and show lack of expeinces, and can not showcase thier talenst ?
2- Why so many of our players, start with very promising show of talents,byt, when given upportunity,they stagnate, stop growing.
3- Why so many of our players, get so arrogant toward the people of IRAN and as if the country owes them something..and many cases, punish the country by not attending or resigning ?
4- Why has there been a gap,in producing talents by our league ?
5- why ****ed up managerial system in IRAN, that has crippled the whole industries, should be different in our football ?
6- Why, our TM football,has gotten so far behind.
.................................................. ......................
Considering the circumstances.....it is my opinion ( nothing more,nothing less ) that CQ is correct to go with the plan of " By any means neccessary " toward the WC.

[Mansoor]

You and Mansour, are assuming, there are some young players,currantly in our league..who would change everything for us...
why is it, that CQ can not see them ?....why is it I can not see them ?.....we see some decnt players.....but no one who could change the balance of TM for WCQ.......
The extend of issues existing with our TM that are far more drastic, that couple of youth,inexperinced U21 players..can solve.....
...
puting all my beliefs in one sentense..
The situation in IRAN,particularly in our football , is far more complex, and far more ****ed up, that it could be handled by logical plannings.

I am assuming "there are some young players,currantly in our league..who would change everything for us..."?

No, doosteh man, such assumption is exaggeration of what I tried to say earlier.

No single factor in football can "change everything", especially the state we are in. Football is achieved through combination of several important factors. One of which is including youth to BRING IN ENERGY, SPIRIT, MOTIVATION, SPEED, to name a few. That is one of many factors that "could" lead to success (but not necessarily).

Does Carlos believe including youth can bring in "a factor" to help us? Apparently not! It is not the particular talented player that is in question, it is his approach. It is not a player or two that I see from long distance and yet an experienced well-known coach can not see from short distance! It is his belief.

His approach is to bring in all the foreign-based players, combine them with experienced players and look for result. It would have been no problem if he had achieved result. Or, he ends up achieving result. But we yet to see the result and we have our back to the wall.

My point from post one was he should have included youth in his program from early on to bring other factors that are missing from our current TM, specially speed, energy, and creativity in midfield.

Again, if you can't see that, I don't insist. But please don't change it to the point of exaggeration to prove a point.

Nobody here claims they have a "magic formula" to change the state of TM or our football. It is simply observations and point of views, some of which do not match the point of view of Carlos at the moment.