WC Qatar 2022

[taremiscores]

Dear Rooyintan:
I agree that banning TM is not a very good idea. I also agree that agitators have been calling to ban Iran from various athletic events for a very long time. I also agree that there are a lot of nefarious organizations and individuals behind this effort.
HOWEVER, it is not a great idea to label everyone who supports this ban as deranged or traitors, or anything else. These are very rough, emotional times for most Iranians. We all want to see a better future for Iran and its people. Many people on this forum who support a ban, do it because they believe it may have a positive effect. While we may not agree with them, they are part of our larger community. We need to accept differences of opinion on this topic and other topics as well.
Blanket labeling of people is never a good idea and will not move us in a positive direction. I invite everyone to take a deep breath and stay focused on the larger goal which should be: A better future for Iran under a democratic government that is representative of its people (all of them) and their aspirations.

A very measured response, nisfejahan. These are very emotional times and people are unfortunately being really reactive and defamatory.

Out of all the traitors in our country currently - those who want TM to be banned are at the bottom of the totem pole. Those who are massacring our youth, women and compatriots are the biggest traitors. They are not in the same realm and universe. I am inspired by the likes of Hamed Esmaeilion. How can you not empathize with him?

I think for many of them - their hearts are in the right place but just are using a bad strategy. If TM boycotting the World Cup means a revolution (democratic, secular gov't in Iran in the long term) - which Iran lover would say no? But it will not lead to that. It will not lead to much except occupy news for a couple days and die down.

Iran winning games will be a reason for everyone to unite and go outside on the streets. Millions at a time, which the regime cannot deal with. TM would serve as a rallying call.

It's a self-defeating proposition and we must communicate that to our fellow hamvatans who want TM to boycott.

[Rooyintan]

Dear Rooyintan:
I agree that banning TM is not a very good idea. I also agree that agitators have been calling to ban Iran from various athletic events for a very long time. I also agree that there are a lot of nefarious organizations and individuals behind this effort.
HOWEVER, it is not a great idea to label everyone who supports this ban as deranged or traitors, or anything else. These are very rough, emotional times for most Iranians. We all want to see a better future for Iran and its people. Many people on this forum who support a ban, do it because they believe it may have a positive effect. While we may not agree with them, they are part of our larger community. We need to accept differences of opinion on this topic and other topics as well.
Blanket labeling of people is never a good idea and will not move us in a positive direction. I invite everyone to take a deep breath and stay focused on the larger goal which should be: A better future for Iran under a democratic government that is representative of its people (all of them) and their aspirations.

Dear Nisfejahan,

Very well written. Respect fellow forum member.

The thing is I am angered, tired and exhausted by Iran-born individuals and organizations calling for bans on Iran national sport teams and federations. They are the only nationality who ask international sport organizations such as FIFA and IOC to ban their own national teams and sport federations. Having lived the bulk of my life in western countries, I have adopted their ways and in western countries if an individual or organization does such a thing calling for ban on their national teams and sport federations would be labeled as traitors by both government and people. High chance of even being ostracized or even lose their jobs. Of course crazy sports fans might not even have mercy on them.

I am also appalled by the double-standards of many non-Iranian Human Rights and Women's Rights organizations, they all readily jump in and show their support of Iranian organizations who call for ban on Iran sports federations, athletes or national teams, but when it comes to their own countries, they never ask the same for their own national federations, athletes or national teams to be banned by the international organizations. Some of the western countries, human rights are violated (For Example No rights for abortion, Violence against women (Domestic Violence), No marriage allowed for LGBT, Refugees kept in detention centers at times for a decade, Refugees killed by detention center security guards, Refugees in boats attacked by Border Guards, indigenous and First Nations death in custody, Police brutality against African-Americans or immigrants or First Nations/Indigenous, Racist slurs and chants at stadiums, Racist attacks on immigrants or international students, Attacks on Mosques Synagogues Temples, Bombardment of countries such as Afghanistan Pakistan Iraq Libya Syria Yemen, War Crimes, Terrorist attacks on Muslims), then there are also many criminal conducts within sport such as Doping Bribery Match-Fixing Assault and Abuse of female athletes by their coaches, the list can just go on and on, so despite all that IOC and FIFA do not place ban on western countries.

[maly3648]

Dear Rooyintan:

I agree that banning TM is not a very good idea. I also agree that agitators have been calling to ban Iran from various athletic events for a very long time. I also agree that there are a lot of nefarious organizations and individuals behind this effort.

HOWEVER, it is not a great idea to label everyone who supports this ban as deranged or traitors, or anything else. These are very rough, emotional times for most Iranians. We all want to see a better future for Iran and its people. Many people on this forum who support a ban, do it because they believe it may have a positive effect. While we may not agree with them, they are part of our larger community. We need to accept differences of opinion on this topic and other topics as well.

Blanket labeling of people is never a good idea and will not move us in a positive direction. I invite everyone to take a deep breath and stay focused on the larger goal which should be: A better future for Iran under a democratic government that is representative of its people (all of them) and their aspirations.

Dear hamvatan, do you consider MEK as people having "other opinions" than us and therefore, respectable? Do you consider people providing informations to our enemies to assassinate iranian scientists as people having other opinions? Do you consider people calling for their own land to be bombed by enemies as people having "other opinions"? Do you consider people asking for more sanctions or banning sport teams against their own country as people having "other opinions"?

You can be whatever you want and support anything you like. Be a royalist, be a religious zealot, be a communist or a humanist but an iranian shouldn't betray his land in the name of his political agenda or hate towards this or that government or system he dislikes. Whoever does that should be ripped off his iranian nationality and be labelled for ever a traitor! Those like hysterical Masih Alinejad or criminal MEK aren't Iranians with "other opinions", they have sold themselves to Saudis, US, Israel and all these countries which want to overthrow our government, not for the good of iranian people, but to have a weak and dependent Iran! I will always be amazed by these traitors and collaborators licking the feet of our enemies. If any change has to happen in Iran, it has to come from within and from the people living in that country, without foreign interferences and manipulation.



Either they're really stupid to think that US, the west, Israel, Saudis want the best for Iran, either they're so much obsessed by their own political agenda and hate that they don't care about anything else, which is the same to say that they're stupids and rather go to psychologists to solve their trauma issues instead of engaging in political talks.

When you see how they think, act and behave, you understand how these MEK tractors integrated Saddam's army against their own homeland. These traitors are no better than criminal MEK and would do the same. That's the drama of our nation, to have so many traitors.

All these TV channels funded by Saudis, US or UK pushing for "regime change" are no less miserable and spreading lies than the propaganda we can hear from official TV channels from Iran, in denial mode and permanently blaming the outside world for their own mistakes and shortcomings.

Last but not least, all these traitors are no better than those they pretend to fight against. As soon as they will have a bit power upon people, they will make this government look like liberals. At least, IRI tested their ideology in power for 43 years. Many insiders and hardliners of the early revolution changed and understood by now that it isn't with religious slogans and unrealistic ideology that you can rule a country. Let this process happen peacefully and from within.

[Rooyintan]

What fumes me even more is when likes of Masih Alinejad, Sardar Pashaei, Openstadiums & some Iranian opposition groups (claim that they are speaking for all Iranian people when they make proposals to foreign politicians, media or when write letters to FIFA, IOC, etc). Do all Iranians want Team Melli banned from World Cup or want all Iran sport federations to be banned from sport events?, hell no! Do all Iranians see those leaders of certain opposition groups as their representatives or voice? hell no!

Hamed Esmaileon did the same, claimed that he is the voice of all families of PS752 flight victims (when in his association, 30 families are not members) or speaking on behalf of all Iranian-Canadians. Did all families of PS752 victims or all Iranian-Canadians wanted the Canada-Iran friendly match canceled? hell no!

These are just self-nominated people who have their own agenda and certainly they are not the voice of all Iranians.

When they communicate they should make it clear to foreigners that they only speaking for their own group that they setup or are a member of.

[nisfejahan]

Dear hamvatan, do you consider MEK as people having "other opinions" than us and therefore, respectable? Do you consider people providing informations to our enemies to assassinate iranian scientists as people having other opinions? Do you consider people calling for their own land to be bombed by enemies as people having "other opinions"? Do you consider people asking for more sanctions or banning sport teams against their own country as people having "other opinions"?

You can be whatever you want and support anything you like. Be a royalist, be a religious zealot, be a communist or a humanist but an iranian shouldn't betray his land in the name of his political agenda or hate towards this or that government or system he dislikes. Whoever does that should be ripped off his iranian nationality and be labelled for ever a traitor! Those like hysterical Masih Alinejad or criminal MEK aren't Iranians with "other opinions", they have sold themselves to Saudis, US, Israel and all these countries which want to overthrow our government, not for the good of iranian people, but to have a weak and dependent Iran! I will always be amazed by these traitors and collaborators licking the feet of our enemies. If any change has to happen in Iran, it has to come from within and from the people living in that country, without foreign interferences and manipulation.



Either they're really stupid to think that US, the west, Israel, Saudis want the best for Iran, either they're so much obsessed by their own political agenda and hate that they don't care about anything else, which is the same to say that they're stupids and rather go to psychologists to solve their trauma issues instead of engaging in political talks.

When you see how they think, act and behave, you understand how these MEK tractors integrated Saddam's army against their own homeland. These traitors are no better than criminal MEK and would do the same. That's the drama of our nation, to have so many traitors.

All these TV channels funded by Saudis, US or UK pushing for "regime change" are no less miserable and spreading lies than the propaganda we can hear from official TV channels from Iran, in denial mode and permanently blaming the outside world for their own mistakes and shortcomings.

Last but not least, all these traitors are no better than those they pretend to fight against. As soon as they will have a bit power upon people, they will make this government look like liberals. At least, IRI tested their ideology in power for 43 years. Many insiders and hardliners of the early revolution changed and understood by now that it isn't with religious slogans and unrealistic ideology that you can rule a country. Let this process happen peacefully and from within.

I don't think MEK has any fans here or in Iran. The question was banning Iran and those who may support it because they think it may result in positive change. I do not think it is a good idea to call them traitors or MEK or whatever else. We should be able to have a discussion without resorting to labels. At the end of the day, overwhelming majority of us are on the same side.

Furthermore, although I am against a ban or boycott for a number of different reasons, I cannot prove one way or the other that a boycott will help or hurt the cause. Nobody can prove it. We just have opinions. We should be able to have a conversation.

Having said that I agree that:

A- Calling for a ban by western organization is the height of hypocrisy, when they were silent on many similar, sometimes worst crimes by the western or western-backed governments. I also do not agree with banning Russia, while Saudis are committing genocide in Yemen, and nobody bats an eye.

B- Outlets like Saudi-funded Iran International, or BBC or Israeli-funded outlets have no love lost for Iran and they have an agenda. That is to be expected.

[maly3648]

I don't think MEK has any fans here or in Iran. The question was banning Iran and those who may support it because they think it may result in positive change. I do not think it is a good idea to call them traitors or MEK or whatever else. We should be able to have a discussion without resorting to labels. At the end of the day, overwhelming majority of us are on the same side.

Furthermore, although I am against a ban or boycott for a number of different reasons, I cannot prove one way or the other that a boycott will help or hurt the cause. Nobody can prove it. We just have opinions. We should be able to have a conversation.

Having said that I agree that:

A- Calling for a ban by western organization is the height of hypocrisy, when they were silent on many similar, sometimes worst crimes by the western or western-backed governments. I also do not agree with banning Russia, while Saudis are committing genocide in Yemen, and nobody bats an eye.

B- Outlets like Saudi-funded Iran International, or BBC or Israeli-funded outlets have no love lost for Iran and they have an agenda. That is to be expected.

Thanks for your answer.

I have to disagree with you on 2 points here :

A- Those wanting team melli to be banned are also asking for forced regime change and all of them, without exceptions have no problem collaborating either with US, Israel, Saudis to achieve that goal. In other words, there aren't anyone calling for ban while trying to promote peaceful reforms within the country. This category doesn't exist.

B- If you agree on point A, which is an objective reality, how can you differentiate between MEK, having integrated a Foreign's country army to topple the regime with those of POINT A, willing the same and adopting exactly the same pattern that we can summarize in :
B1 - They are obsessed with their hate of the government and in the name of this hate, are ready to do more or less everything possible to topple it, even openly collaborating with enemies.
B2 - not caring at all about the agenda of those enemies or seeing them as the incarnation of the good, despite all the crimes these countries have committed (US or Israel).

What kind of debate do you want to have with these people exactly, knowing that they don't care about illegal sanctions killing thousands of innocent Iranians and all the crimes committed by those they seek support from? They are even happy when Israel or US kill Iranian scientists inside their own land and even ask US/Israel to bomb Iran. How do you label these people and where is the difference with what MEK did exactly? These people are exactly like MEK and if you look carefully, MEK and these people are asking exactly the same.

- Forced regime change, even by foreign military intervention
- More sanctions against Iranian people
- Banning of iranian teams from sports events

We can have debate with fellow Iranians of different trends, having extremely different opinions, faith, political agenda or affiliations as far as they are not traitors. I don't see any other label possible for these people, sorry.

[perspolis#1]

Anyone who tries to equate all protesters to MEK should be assumed an IR agent with a financial or familial motivation that needs to be disclosed.

[bozghaleh]

Anyone who tries to equate all protesters to MEK should be assumed an IR agent with a financial or familial motivation that needs to be disclosed.

You are much too nice!!! My response: Mozdoor boro gom sho!

[DR Strangemoosh]

Anyone who tries to equate all protesters to MEK should be assumed an IR agent with a financial or familial motivation that needs to be disclosed.

Just the post histories, with very clear statements made in the past, should be enough...

[perspolis#1]

Just the post histories, with very clear statements made in the past, should be enough...

Those same people will come and claim to want fairness and debate?

Kooft.

[taremiscores]

but an iranian shouldn't betray his land in the name of his political agenda

Funny, that's all you've been doing on these forums. You're not here for any Iran talk, you're here to spread IR propaganda. IR is literally massacring innocent Iranians in the streets and you say shit - you make up make-belief enemies to divert attention from the Islamists traitors. There is no make-belief war scenarios - it's really happening and you continue saying the same propagandist bullshit.

"Happen peacefully within" - like you're cult IR will allow anything peaceful to happen. Is that you, Seyed Mohammad Marandi?

IR is worst than MEK, Israelis, Saudis et al. Stop pumping IR narratives through online forums, mozdoor. Take your IR cheques and STFU.

People like you call for the continued massacre, rape, and plundering of Iran. Why is this tolerated here? IR is the perfect Zionist and US-government creation - it was created to keep Iranians down with subhuman illiterate mullahs at the helm. But we're fighting back, traitor.

[Rooyintan]

Mahmoud Ebrahimzadeh was absolutely fine with getting paid by IRI Football Federation when he was an analyst for Team Melli in 2011 or when he was Technical Director at Shahin Bushehr

https://www.khabaronline.ir/news/180...AF%D9%81%D8%AA

http://buoshehr.blogfa.com/post/421

Just like the rest of them Masih Alinejad, Sardar Pashaei who were paid by IRI employers in the past whether media or sport. So as long as they had payments from IRI it was all fine and faultless, now they want to inflict absolute damage however instead of regime on innocent Team Melli! What these people need to know is that many Iranians including the Royal Family, Los Angeles based Singers who lost everything as a result of 1979 Iran Revolution never stopped supporting Team Melli because they know that Team Melli belongs to the people of Iran.

Such people who keep on asking for ban on Team Melli for World Cup, should stop using Team Melli as scapegoat for achieving their own personal motives and agenda. Majority of Iranian people would like to see Team Melli participate at the World Cup.

Long Live Iranvej & Persian Gulf Forever.

[maly3648]

Anyone who tries to equate all protesters to MEK should be assumed an IR agent with a financial or familial motivation that needs to be disclosed.

1- Nobody here equates these protesters with MEK. Most of these protesters defend their legitimate civil rights and are being violented by a government which uses force to solve a problem that can't be solved with force.

2- Nobody here defend this law which has no root in religion nor in Iranian pluralistic population. We have Christians, jews, zoroastrians and not religious people. This law was voted in a post-revolutionary era which isn't at all in line with actual Iran's reality. You can't keep imposing by force, - upon an educated population -, laws which are mainly rooted in an ideological posture.

3 - Using force to crackdown over Iranian citizens will only translate in a bigger gap between people and their government. This will make the country more and more difficult to govern. These hardcore hardliners are harming the governability of our country. We need more realistic politicians, not more ideological ones.

4 - Permanently blaming foreign enemies for mismanagement, ideological idiotic decisions leading to protests and legitimate claims from protesters won't solve any problem. If these enemies are indeed trying to use these problems to achieve their goals, the massive responsibility of the actual government in the actual situation shouldn't be denied.

Even people who were neutral and even supporting the government are more and more taking their distance with the blindness of hardliners towards this situation.

Having said that, the core of the debate wasn't here, it was about "what to do to provoke reforms/change" ? Some of us don't want a revolution not a civil war, we want internal reforms without foreign interferences. Others here don't care about foreign interferences and are obsessed by toppling the government. They would even be happy if their country is bombed or their scientists killed by foreign agents. They would even help these foreigners to achieve their nasty goals against Iran. This is why they push for banning TM from international competition to achieve their political agenda. This is where the core of the debate is, not anywhere else.

Some people here promote exactly what MEK promoted: alliance with enemies to provoke a change. They were considering this government as criminals, hating it and were ready to do EVERYTHING to topple it. They were saying exactly the same than what people like Masih Alinejad is saying. Let's get money from anywhere, ally with anyone because the higher goal is the most important: topple the regime at any cost, even by integrated a foreign army, like they did with Iraq.

Let's push for more sanctions, killing thousands of Iranians, let's push for ban of TM to put more pressure on them etc ... What's the difference between them and those loving Bolton, Pompeo, Neocons, Right wing Israelis and even getting money from Saudis ? They are exactly the same than MEK.

How can a patriot defend such things? How can a proud Persian be so coward to ask Israelis or neocons for help to attack his country, let alone help foreigners achieve their political goals in the name of their hate towards the government? What is the difference between them and MEK traitors ? They are now using these legitimate protests and real internal problems in Iran in order to achieve their political goals.

[perspolis#1]

Having said that, the core of the debate wasn't here, it was about "what to do to provoke reforms/change" ? Some of us don't want a revolution not a civil war, we want internal reforms without foreign interferences. Others here don't care about foreign interferences and are obsessed by toppling the government. They would even be happy if their country is bombed or their scientists killed by foreign agents. They would even help these foreigners to achieve their nasty goals against Iran. This is why they push for banning TM from international competition to achieve their political agenda. This is where the core of the debate is, not anywhere else.
Some people here promote exactly what MEK promoted: alliance with enemies to provoke a change. They were considering this government as criminals, hating it and were ready to do EVERYTHING to topple it. They were saying exactly the same than what people like Masih Alinejad is saying. Let's get money from anywhere, ally with anyone because the higher goal is the most important: topple the regime at any cost, even by integrated a foreign army, like they did with Iraq.
Let's push for more sanctions, killing thousands of Iranians, let's push for ban of TM to put more pressure on them etc ... What's the difference between them and those loving Bolton, Pompeo, Neocons, Right wing Israelis and even getting money from Saudis ? They are exactly the same than MEK.
How can a patriot defend such things? How can a proud Persian be so coward to ask Israelis or neocons for help to attack his country, let alone help foreigners achieve their political goals in the name of their hate towards the government? What is the difference between them and MEK traitors ? They are now using these legitimate protests and real internal problems in Iran in order to achieve their political goals.

How can a patriot defend the beating of its people over an opinion?

How can a patriot defend the murder of children over an opinion?
How can a patriot allow Arabs to come to Iran and turn a blind eye to the prostitution of its women to them?

How can a patriot put the arbitrary rule of hijab over its women? Beat them over noncompliance? Do these patriots have mothers? Sisters?

1- What reforms? Is it the same BS I knew it for in 1999, 2009, 2019 etc? This is a regime time buying tactic. No. Getting lost in the details is another regime tactic. The ultimate is no. They can get lost. And their beneficiaries should bleed from their pockets.
2-How many people died in Sanandaj and Zahedan the last week? How many people has IR killed in its reign? I promise you the guy beating the daylights out of the aggressor Basiji/akhoond/Sandis khor is more Iranian than you or me.

[taremiscores]

How can a patriot defend the beating of its people over an opinion?

How can a patriot defend the murder of children over an opinion?
How can a patriot allow Arabs to come to Iran and turn a blind eye to the prostitution of its women to them?

How can a patriot put the arbitrary rule of hijab over its women? Beat them over noncompliance? Do these patriots have mothers? Sisters?

1- What reforms? Is it the same BS I knew it for in 1999, 2009, 2019 etc? This is a regime time buying tactic. No. Getting lost in the details is another regime tactic. The ultimate is no. They can get lost. And their beneficiaries should bleed from their pockets.
2-How many people died in Sanandaj and Zahedan the last week? How many people has IR killed in its reign? I promise you the guy beating the daylights out of the aggressor Basiji/akhoond/Sandis khor is more Iranian than you or me.

Here's a thought: the likes of them don't give two shits about Iran. Never did.

Iran has faltered on every front since the revolution. Seeing unimaginable declines in everything, including dignity and honor of our nation. We lost an entire generation to the bloodthirsty Khomeini in the war and have lost others after that.

These bots are paid to post propaganda on sites/forums like this and social media. No need to analyze or engage them. They are masters in diverting from topics and always invoke "doshmaan" (when IR is the biggest and only real doshmaan we have).