QUEIROZ vs BRANCO Discussion!

[nisfejahan]

Ebrahim Mirzapour - 71 caps

Rasool Khatibi....Starting forward
Ali Daei (2006 version)......Starting forward

[tooleh khers]

Didn't you see the results posted just above your post??? We were constantly struggling against weak teams under Branko, and like others have mentioned, every match was very stressful because we didn't have team cohesion or a good defence.

Branko had about 5 -6 players playing in Top European leagues, all at the same time! a few players in the Bundesliga, who were all key players for their clubs, Seria A (Rahman Rezai Centre back).
Even when he had both Karimi and Mahdavikia in their prime, he still struggled to beat teams like Bahrain, Oman, and Jordan - Do you see any of this happening now? - We only have ONE SINGLE player in a top league right now, and CQ is still COMPLETELY OUTPERFORMING Branko.

Branko got us 1 point against Angola, CQ got us 4 points in a group with Morocco, Spain, and Portugal, and nearly took us to round of 16.

What has been disappointing to you about CQ's results? The fact that he's only lost one competitive game in over 4 years, against Spain with a pure fluke deflection goal?

If you're disappointed with CQ's results, who's results have impressed you more and how on earth has this happened?

I did. Did you see the stats comparing the two? results that matter are group advancements, championships, top 3 finishes, world cup qualifications. They both have world cup qualifications but Branko has trophies and a 3rd place finish at the Asian cup. Lets not resort to funky mathematics comparing so and so player and belittling so and so player now. Branko had few players from our golden generation most of which didnt play together and were not in their prime. Karimi, Zandi, hashemian and mahdavikia are great legends obviously but lets not minimize Taremi, Azmoun, Pouraliganji, Beiranvand, Hosseini, Mohammadi, Haj safi, ansarifard, Shojaei, Dejagah..etc Math circus I dont do only final results matter. Important results that matter are world cup qualification, world cup games, advancement, top 3 finishes. CQ has the world cup qualification results (check) Did not perform well in the world cup, did not advance, did not win any tournaments not even a WAFF and had our worst finish ever in the Asian cup (6th). His results are well in line with our historic results nothing extra ordinary and TM has yet to break and exceed its usual results. It remains the only Asian team not to advance in world cup group stage. It has not won the Asian cup and in fact did worst than it did 50% of the time it appeared in an Asian cup. He needs some kind of a glory so we can say he has the best or one of the best results in our football. Again I am not saying he doesnt have results I am saying in comparison to some other coaches like Branko he has not had better results.

[tooleh khers]

we are namak nashnash nation, we have to wait til CQ leaves, then we will say "long live CQ", bring CQ back.


Just watch!!

I will mark this threat, and will remind everyone when the time comes.

We are namak nashnas people for sure. Call people who brought us some glory all kinds of names and forget our past very easy.

[sam20]

I mean this:

2004 it does not mention we barely made it out of the group it mentions 3rd place finish vs 6th place finish for CQ. Worst finish ever. We lost to a country that was invaded by Isis. CQ lost to Isis. In 2006 we finished higher 25th than we did in 2014 (28th). Our FIFA ranking was 15 as opposed to 28. Do not shoot the messenger. I am not Branko's aunt or mother. It is stats! Branko for now is sarvareh CQ as far as Iranian football is concerned. I hope Cq wins the Asian cup and we can all praise him for being the best coach ever and then so on with every other coach.

It's not fair to simply state, "with Branko we finished 3rd, with CQ we finished 6th" without even considering the reasons why.

That's a 3rd place finish with several players playing in the top 4 leagues in Europe, and we still barely qualified out of our group with last minute tie against Oman, and couldn't beat China in 90 minutes 11 on 11, then we lost to them on penalties.

CQ had a couple players playing in low European leagues, and lost to Iraq after a very harsh red card and poor refereeing. Branko only made it one stage further with much better players, and couldn't even beat China 11 on 11. - You can't just look at this and say "3rd vs. 6th"


Are you actually implying that Iran played better in the 2006 World Cup than in 2014??? - AGAIN, you're just stating facts without reasons as to why this happened.

In 2006, we got ONE POINT, against ANGOLA, and we had to equalize from a corner to get it. - our other opponents were Mexico and Portugal, who smacked us in both matches, and completely outplayed us.
In 2014 we got one point against a much stronger Nigeria, and barely lost to Argentina via 90 minute magic from the best player in the world. We lost to Boznia 3-1 cuz we had to go all out to win by multiple goals at that point - Still no worse of a result than Branko's matches.

We probably only finished in a better position in 2006 because there were a bunch of other teams who didn't even get 1 point in group stages, so they obviously fell below us. - Does this make Branko's World Cup more successful than CQ's??? Come on


15 VS 28th in rankings means so much, right? This 15th placed team barely got a point against Angola. Rankings mean nothing, especially when you're losing to teams like Jordan.


These stats are ridiculous and this chart was obviously made by someone who just has a hate on for CQ, and conveniently leaves out all the facts between the lines to make Branko look better.

I love how it mentions nothing about:

CQ - 4 points against Morocco, Portugal, and Spain VS Branko - 1 point against Angola, Portugal, and Mexico.
CQ - 2 world cups in a row for first time in Iran's history VS Branko - 1 world cup and wasn't good enough to stick around for another
CQ - WORLD RECORD 12 matches without conceding a goal VS Branko - no special record, conceding goals on a regular basis, even against Jordan, Oman, Bahrain.
CQ - Iran defeats S. Korea and finishes ahead of them in 2014 and 2018 VS Branko - Clearly 2nd best to Japan in qualifiers, and barely making the final round of qualification after losing to teams like Jordan, etc.


Even just watching TM, clearly shows how much more organized they are.

The results in his matches are all there, and are a much better indication of his performance as opposed to a bias, skewed report, making it seem like Branko had better results, without actually showing his match results LOLLL.
Branko isn't even a quarter of CQ, and CQ is clearly the greatest coach we've ever had.

[DR Strangemoosh]

We are namak nashnas people for sure.

We are namak nashnas for sure - not appreciating people who are building a team for the future in comparison with people who destroyed our team for the future....

[DR Strangemoosh]

Also no, in 2006 we didn't have two top 10 seeds in our group. In fact, Mexico was a top 10 fifa-ranked team and Portugal was ranked 17th. You can argue that those should be reversed but regardless, there was only one top 10 seed in our group. .

If his argument is based on stats then this is a pretty embarrassing mistaken claim he's made...

As I say, perhaps we deserve what we get next if we are this namak nashnass and can't differentiate a bad coach from a good one.

[sirvan]

Only a Branko would think that Mirzapour is a better goalkeeper than Rahmati. Only a Branko would think that Khatibi is better than Farhad Majidi, only a Branko would play old and slow Ali Daei 90 minutes each game, only a Branco would play Hashemian out of position as a winger just so old and slow Ali Daei can play every game for 90 minutes untill the final whistle, only a Branko would make the same substitutions every game at the same minutes (i remember Navidkia used to come in at the 64th minute every game ), only a Branko would exclude players such as Bagheri, Azizi, Mobali and Farhad Majidi for the likes of Enayati, Khatibi, Madanchi and Zare, only a Branko would play Fereydoon Zandi, Nosrati and Zare at the left back position, Only a Branko etc etc

[mistermo]

There is no discussion here, Branko's a decent coach but CQ is miles ahead in almost every aspect.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Tooleh Khers, I take it because of your obsession with numbers over less tangible things (albeit incorrect in quite a few areas as highlighted by other posters), that you consider Jalal Talebi was a better coach for TM than Tomislav Ivic?

[Abedzadeh]

Substantive like your "contextual deficiencies" or substantive like actual stats? fact we spent more in 2014 and 2018 than we did in 2006. CQ salary alone should be substantive enough. Fact 2006 got better result than 2014. 25th vs 28th and we did not park the bus and have the lowest number of passes and shots ever and had a more difficult group with two top 10 seeds. Fact: our 2014 and 2018 teams had the most number of players playing abroad and had more depth than 2006. 2006 we had few talents and remaining players from golden generations who mostly did not play every game or all together. You happily give CQ credit for players playing abroad and having talent but you use the same to take credit away from another coach? I respect you giving credit and praising a coach but to demonize and insult someone else to do it is wrong. in the end all that remains is stats no one remembers any context.

You really didn't respond to the content of my post with anything substantive, nor did you address any of the points I raised, and to top it off, you even made statements that are demonstrably false.

How was the performance of the 2006 squad better than the 2014 squad? In 2006, the team suffered two consecutive losses, and was eliminated from the tournament before the final day of the group stage. In 2014, the team earned its first ever clean sheet in a WC by drawing Nigeria. Because of that draw, the team retained a shot of qualifying for the round of 16 through the final match day of the group stages. The objective of every squad is to qualify for the round of 16, and the team of 2006 couldn't even survive after only two matches, unlike the team of 2014. So you cannot seriously/reasonably argue that the performance of the '06 team was superior to the performance of the '14 team.

You also say that it is a "fact" that we spent more in 2014 than we did in 2006? I get the impression you didn't even read my post. If you did, you would have noticed that I detailed all the unprecedented adverse political/economic issues which greatly hampered the 2014 team's preparation, which is why the team of 2014 remains the only Iranian WC squad, post-revolution, that was unable to play a single friendly match against a fellow, WC qualified team. The team of 2006 did not face this scope of adversity, which is why they were able to play friendly matches against 4 WC qualified teams. Despite the superior preparation, the team exited the WC after 2 consecutive defeats, which is quite embarrassing given that the 2014 team retained hopes of qualification all the way through the final match day, despite having considerably inferior preparation. Instead of addressing these points, you instead digress and go on a tangent about CQ's salary. As far as his salary is concerned, his salary was rarely paid on time, and he even had to withdraw money from his own personal bank account to pay the salaries of his own assistants.

Aside from the results, we all remember the very poor physical fitness of br-AN-G0H's teams, who were always gassed, and too tired to compete in the second half, which is another reason for the poor performance of the 2006 team. Most of us remember the second half performance against Mexico in particular, where all Iranian players stayed behind the ball because they were too tired to attack, or the Portgual match, where Mirzapour actually played one of his best matches to prevent the score-line from getting embarrassing.

I didn't make any comments either praising CQ, or attacking br-AN-G0H for players playing, or not playing abroad, so you misread my post ..... but as for your last comment, about how nobody remembers context, that is simply false. While it is true that results matter, they are not the be-all end-all. For instance, it's like asserting that br-AN-G0H is a superior coach to Miroslav Blazevic because br-AN-G0H qualified to the WC with TM, while Blazeviz did not. The statement does not take into account the fact that in the 2002 WCQs, only 20% of the national teams competing in the final round of Asian WCQs qualified directly to the WC (two groups of five teams, only the group leader qualifying directly), whereas in 2006, 50% of the national teams competing in the final round of Asian WCQs qualified directly to the WC. In other words, the context matters, and cannot be overlooked.

Nobody is saying that you have to like CQ, or that he is infallible, but don't make things up, or try to mislead by posting tables out of context.

[paas]

Here is a comparative look at how TM did under CQ, Branko, and the coaches between them.
You can spin reality all you want, but at the end of the day the numbers speak for themselves.



Branko got better results playing against tougher teams. That's not opinion. That's fact.

[Afat11]

^May I inquire who compiled the stats in this graph? I just checked TM’s games from January 2002 when Branko was appointed until his final game of World Cup 2006. Our record was 34-11-12 during that period. Unless someone else coached several games for TM in that timeframe, that puts Branko’s record around 59%...

I just checked and forgot about the gap where Shahrokhi took over for 6 months. Despite that, Branko’s record was 33-10-9. This doesn’t jive with this graph above. This number is hilarious because it shows that Branko lost 9 / 52 = 17.3%, while CQ has lost 12 / 93 = 12.9%. Comparing the teams played too, I think that average ranking is skewed. Teams like Iran, Japan, Korea etc. were in the top 20 back then, and Asia overall was inflated. Go check. Since CQ took over, Asian teams like Japan have been perpetually underrated in the 60’s. Your facts and numbers are all skewed...

Also, please note that CQ’s most embarrassing losses in competitive matches were to Lebanon and Uzbekistan 1.5 years into his tenure as coach. Iran’s losses to teams like Oman, Albania, and Guinnea were all friendlies, and before WC 2014, when CQ still had the team he inherited from the previous generation.
Losses to Sweden, Spain, Turkey, Tunisia, Argentina and peak Bosnia is nothing to scoff at.
Idk, losing COMPETITIVE matches to Jordan (three times) is worse in my mind. Anyone who felt more confident playing Arab teams under Branko than CQ must have been on the moon during that’s period. CQ May have had stumbling blocks, but he never wasted talents the likes of Karimi, Mahdavikia, etc. doing well in friendlies with Bosnia in 2005, does not beat 4 points at a World Cup. Branko failed to win anything with our greatest generation. Enough said. CQ basically played with a group of youngsters he discovered in Iran, and would have made it at least to the semifinals of 2015 Asian Cup and equaled Branko, but for Pouladi. When it comes to matches that count, where are branko’s accolades? CQ got us our best result in a World Cup ever, and it’s funny how people can forget this. We were 1/2 foot away from topping a group with Spain + Portugal. Some of you deserve Mayeli Kohan and Ghalenoei, you really do.

[mahestan]

No idea why we are discussing this? We all know Mayeli Kohan is the one true god.

[Afat11]

No idea why we are discussing this? We all know Mayeli Kohan is the one true god.

How dare you, Ali daei has the true highest win percentage, beating Kenya, and Zambia, losing to Ecuador in his only difficult match, and essentially tying in every competitive match! He won a bunch of friendlies with Palestine, Kuwait, China, and WAFF championship matches though!

He should still be coach, numbers are all that matters. Greatest Iranian player and coach. His record was actually 50-95-0. I saw it on a graph somewhere!

[mahestan]

How dare you, Ali daei has the true highest win percentage, beating Kenya, and Zambia, losing to Ecuador in his only difficult match, and essentially tying in every competitive match! He won a bunch of friendlies with Palestine, Kuwait, China, and WAFF championship matches though!

He should still be coach, numbers are all that matters. Greatest Iranian player and coach. His record was actually 50-95-0. I saw it on a graph somewhere!

Oh how glad am I to see that sarcasm isn't dead on this forum.