Human Afazeli now destroys CQ

[inarsenewetrust]

Thank you. It's precisely what I have been saying and why this wasn't a group of death. You simply confuse group of death with difficult group for lower seeded teams.

read the last sentence. It not being a group of death in the traditional sense, doesnt change from the fact that it was the MOST COMPETITIVE WORLD CUP GROUP. and not just for "lower seeded teams". No team in the group won a match by a margin of greater than a goal. Portugal tied Iran and Spain tied Morocco, the two "lower seeded teams", and one can argue that both morocco and iran even deserved to win those matches. The group was extremely difficult for the favorites as well, as reflected in the points totals and scorelines. Therefore, based on performance, it was the hardest group in the WC (FOR ALL TEAMS INVOLVED), which in many peoples definitions, makes it the group of death.

[KC McElroy]

read the last sentence. It not being a group of death in the traditional sense, doesnt change from the fact that it was the MOST COMPETITIVE WORLD CUP GROUP. and not just for "lower seeded teams". No team in the group won a match by a margin of greater than a goal. Portugal tied Iran and Spain tied Morocco, the two "lower seeded teams", and one can argue that both morocco and iran even deserved to win those matches. The group was extremely difficult for the favorites as well, as reflected in the points totals and scorelines. Therefore, based on performance, it was the hardest group in the WC (FOR ALL TEAMS INVOLVED), which in many peoples definitions, makes it the group of death.

No one is arguing whether the group was difficult or not. We are discussing whether it was a group of death. And as it had two clear favorites it wasn't a group of death.

[Saam]

No one is arguing whether the group was difficult or not. We are discussing whether it was a group of death. And as it had two clear favorites it wasn't a group of death.

Based on how close every game was, it ended up becoming a group of death even though it was not one on paper. Especially if luck/refereeing decisions had been on Morocco's side against Spain or Portugal.

[KC McElroy]

Based on how close every game was, it ended up becoming a group of death even though it was not one on paper. Especially if luck/refereeing decisions had been on Morocco's side against Spain or Portugal.

The group had two clear favorites. Therefore it was not a group of death.

[DR Strangemoosh]

So there weren't two clear favorites in the group?

No, I think you are selling Morocco short, who a number of people were putting almost at par with Spain and Portugal, and I was among them.

If the other team was Tunisia, or Egypt then yes there were two clear favourites. Morocco were a very, very good team, much better as a unit than any other African team, and unfortunately many will never know how good they are. Their FIFA ranking is still suffering from older results but I expect them to improve considerably over the next year or two and we may only consider the extent of their quality using a retrospectoscope in 5-10 years.

In the end they actually played better than both Spain and Portugal (and Iran) but didn't get the results, with poor refereeing having a huge role in both Spain and Portugal games.

[KC McElroy]

No, I think you are selling Morocco short, who a number of people were putting almost at par with Spain and Portugal, and I was among them.
If the other team was Tunisia, or Egypt then yes there were two clear favourites. Morocco were a very, very good team, much better as a unit than any other African team, and unfortunately many will never know how good they are. Their FIFA ranking is still suffering from older results but I expect them to improve considerably over the next year or two and we may only consider the extent of their quality using a retrospectoscope in 5-10 years.
In the end they actually played better than both Spain and Portugal (and Iran) but didn't get the results, with poor refereeing having a huge role in both Spain and Portugal games.

The previews you had read must have been different than the ones most people read as all others indicated the group had two clear favorites. Therefore it was not a group of death.

[inarsenewetrust]

The group had two clear favorites. Therefore it was not a group of death.

we are not talking about group of death on paper anymore,(even though many people put morocco on par with portugal before the group started). We are talking about, if based on performance, this was the group of death, or the most difficult, however you want to put it. Now could you comment on that? Instead of repeating the same two damn sentences in every post...

[KC McElroy]

we are not talking about group of death on paper anymore,(even though many people put morocco on par with portugal before the group started). We are talking about, if based on performance, this was the group of death, or the most difficult, however you want to put it. Now could you comment on that? Instead of repeating the same two damn sentences in every post...

There is no group of death based on performance after the fact. Group of death is to forecast the closeness of a group before games are played. What you are describing is a difficult group, not a group of death. Very few, if any, put Morocco on par with Portugal. At the time of the drawing the group had two clear favorites. Therefore it was not a group of death.

[inarsenewetrust]

There is no group of death based on performance after the fact. Group of death is to forecast the closeness of a group before games are played. What you are describing is a difficult group, not a group of death. Very few, if any, put Morocco on par with Portugal. At the time of the drawing the group had two clear favorites. Therefore it was not a group of death.

so based on performance, was this the most difficult group of the 2018 world Cup?

[KC McElroy]

so based on performance, was this the most difficult group of the 2018 world Cup?

Before I answer that let's conclude our previous discussion. As the group had two clear favorites, you realize it wasn't a group of death, correct?

[inarsenewetrust]

Before I answer that let's conclude our previous discussion. As the group had two clear favorites, you realize it wasn't a group of death, correct?

no because I personally recognized the quality of all the teams, and was aware it would be a very close group. And yes, I rated morocco as on par with portugal actually. I think the makeup of the group made it the closest thing to a traditional group of death that can exist now, because Spain and Portugal are huge teams, but morocco was in terms of results and in terms of personnel the strongest team in africa, and iran were similar in asia. This sentiment was echoed by many others, like Gabrielle Marcotti, and Arsene Wenger for instance.

But thats besides point, was our group the most dificult group in the WC based on performance? Lets hope you dont side step it again just to tell us that we misused your definition of "group of death" - the horror.

[DR Strangemoosh]

The previews you had read must have been different than the ones most people read as all others indicated the group had two clear favorites.

Lets agree to disagree about this.

All the previews I read on places like the Guardian and Indie before the world cup (admittedly only by pundits who i respect so there will always be some inherent bias as the ones I like know more about world football ) had Morocco down as likely to get a win against either Spain or Portugal.

Some pundits even had Morocco winning the group:

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ld-cup-group-b

Indeed, a few betting companies had more bets on Morocco to win than Portugal: https://twitter.com/BetStars/status/1007569805791113216

I see where you're coming from though.

[KC McElroy]

Lets agree to disagree about this.

All the previews I read on places like the Guardian and Indie before the world cup (admittedly only by pundits who i respect so there will always be some inherent bias as the ones I like know more about world football ) had Morocco down as likely to get a win against either Spain or Portugal.

Some pundits even had Morocco winning the group:

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ld-cup-group-b

Indeed, a few betting companies had more bets on Morocco to win than Portugal: https://twitter.com/BetStars/status/1007569805791113216

I see where you're coming from though.

While I had read many reviews prior to the World Cup (which I don't remember the exact sites), I did a simple google search now regarding the odds posted prior to the games. About 19 out of 20 of them picked Spain and Portugal to advance. To me the two favorites in the group, and the reason most others considered them as the two favorites were clear.

[inarsenewetrust]

While I had read many reviews prior to the World Cup (which I don't remember the exact sites), I did a simple google search now regarding the odds posted prior to the games. About 19 out of 20 of them picked Spain and Portugal to advance. To me the two favorites in the group, and the reason most others considered them as the two favorites were clear.

so do you want to respond to my post or...? Would like to see your opinion about this.

[KC McElroy]

no because I personally recognized the quality of all the teams, and was aware it would be a very close group. And yes, I rated morocco as on par with portugal actually. I think the makeup of the group made it the closest thing to a traditional group of death that can exist now, because Spain and Portugal are huge teams, but morocco was in terms of results and in terms of personnel the strongest team in africa, and iran were similar in asia. This sentiment was echoed by many others, like Gabrielle Marcotti, and Arsene Wenger for instance.

But thats besides point, was our group the most dificult group in the WC based on performance? Lets hope you dont side step it again just to tell us that we misused your definition of "group of death" - the horror.

I wasn't asking if you saw two favorites in the group. My question was were there two favorites in the group. If you don't recall whether most everyone was considering two favorites in the group you may use google to look the information up.
The bolded section actually answers my question in that you did not consider it a group of death but rather something close to it.