Any analysis of CQ's performance must take into account our TALENT DROUGHT

[ramingeles2000]

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?102586-Stop-blaming-CQ.-We-re-suffering-from-a-talent-deficiency&highlight=

you can call the ability to play good football on a pitch for 90 minutes whatever you want, and you can point to a million factors to explain why someone makes it to europe or doesn't but in the end the fact is that the 11 players that Iran can currently put on the pitch right now is NOT AS GOOD as the 11 players iran has traditionally put on the pitch, and CQ can only be judged by the abilities he has the pitch. i used european players as a measure of general playing ability and i stand by it.

[Nariman]

This is your 2nd thread regarding this issue; don’t know why you did not use the previous one. It won’t change the truth by opening a new thread over & over again

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?102586-Stop-blaming-CQ.-We-re-suffering-from-a-talent-deficiency&highlight=

Anyway, the "lack of talent" argument is BY FAR the most nonsense excuse ever in the history of Iranian football. No matter what - the very LAST problem we have is "lack of talent" - in fact, the MAIN reason why we manage to stay on top of Asia is solely because of talent & passion, often not only in football.

There are various reasons why we don’t have more players in Europe, and lacking talent is without a doubt NOT one of them. It's foolish to believe that "talent" is the only criteria for players to move to Europe - in this world talent plays a smaller role more & more. There are other reasons like:

- Too much $$$ = spoiled players with lazy attitude
- No management, unnecessary paper work...
- image, political climate (unless we want to close our eyes)
... no need to explain, other members already mentioned everything.

It's not just PFDC members claiming Iranian players have talent, the last couple of years I witnessed enough foreign players/coaches/fans... saying this as well. At the end why is CQ willing to stay? Who would want to work with bunch of corrupted and incompetent idiots, when you actually worked with likes of Real Madrid or Manchester previously. Money? He could earn enough money in some arab team as well, with less stress and better facilities. The answer is clear...

I consider myself as one of CQ's biggest supporter out there; however some exaggerate way too much trying to defend him 24/7. He is no God and not a King - he has his own flaws and weaknesses, but overall indeed is the best we have had so far. The thing is - with CQ we are not going through a talent drought, but rather a GENERATION change - BIG difference here!

Very refreshing to see most don’t seem to have the same opinion, and instead are aware of our real problems. The more energy we waste on rather washed up topics, the less time we have to prepare our team - let’s focus on the real issues. Talent means zero without discipline and proper attidude & management.

[sirvan]

You mentioned Ghaleneoi using Enayati and Khatibi on the wings, which brings up a question. Ghaleneoi, a horrible coach, doesn't know how to utilize players, but a world class coach like CQ, why does he insist on using Hajsafi as LB when it isn't working? On top of that, starting Haghighi when he has been shaky and undependable? That seems like coaching mistakes from CQ, similar to the same mistake from Ghaleneoi. Of course I'm sure someone is gonna jump on my question and just say "we don't have players, talent, sarbazi etc etc.

Hajsafi may not be the ideal left back, but he has proven that he can play there. While Enayati and Khatibi have absolutely no business playing as wingers. If you don't have wingers, or better said refuse to select wingers for your team then don't play the 4-3-3 system, simple. Besides i never claimed Quieroz was perfect, but comparing a professional man who has coached teams such as Real Madrid to two moronic amateur coaches is just ludicrous.

[Dreamer]

Looks like some members here are finally getting out of the CQ dream, good to see you guys get off the hype train

[Keano]

Hmmm... lets see.
Daei - vatani - one loss to ksa, a top Asian team ( not exactly Lebanon, right?), .... fired.

DD jaan,

I am sorry but it wasn't only that infamous loss which cost Daei his TM coaching fate. His track record of first round of WCQ against 2nd. and 3rd. tier Asian counterparts were absolutely terrible.

Below is a quote from Ali Daei Wikipedia page:

the Iranian team managed the weakest World Cup Qualification results in its history with only one win out of 5 WCQ games

As for GN I won't even go there, I don't think in the history of TM we have ever had so many star-studded and great players as our 2007 AC tourney...

[pas-bedeh]

This line of reasoning isn't helpful. We should not take the rare example to prove a point. We should take the more common examples.
In other words, in your opinion youth systems usually DONT produce future senior nat'l teams or DO they? What does logic say?

Imo,, logic says youth system DOES produce senior teams. I'm not saying they all progress into senior team. But many do, therefore it is logical to invest in them.

Please refer back to your original post, the one I replied to. You were being specific, talking about the team that just won the WAFF tournament, I replied back with a specific example that youth teams can achieve success in a single tournament for their country but that doesn't necessarily translate to club and senior level success. However, if you want to discuss on a more general level, then yes, having a strong youth program will (at the very least) help identify some of the young talent. Notice I said "identify" and not develop, because we can't compare what they accomplish at the youth level in England, Germany, Holland, France, Brazil, Mexico...to what we can accomplish in Iran and other similar footballing countries in the region.

Now going back to my original point, it's irrelevant how much talent our youngsters have - yes, they may even win a tournament or two - what matters is how they develop as a professional at the club/senior level, this is where we lack the fundamental necessities to develop that talent. I personally believe this is largely due to culture/attitude and corruption. I know facilities and funding is usually brought up but we see many African countries with far inferior infrastructure develop highly successful talent for European club level competition. I also would like to add that I see the development of the youth talent being the responsibility of the coach at the club level. On average, a player spends 9-10 months of the year at their club and only one week per game (5 or 6 games per year) with their national team.

[Bi-honar]

^ in a functional federation, "change" is good and sometimes needed. However, as we all know the history of our beloved football federation, a "change" is just an opportunity for a few corrupt people to find ways to funnel more money into their own pockets. Ofcourse sometimes they miss that opportunity and we end up with an inflexible and un-pushable coach like CQ. Coaches like Ghotbi or Branko are a dime-a-dozen. Strong willed coaches like CQ who have the guts to standup to the corrupt officials in IFF are hard to find.

I don't disagree with any of that Offside jaan. But at the end of the day, that change is going to come sooner or later - like I said we can't keep CQ forever. So we have to face the the fact that the situation may get worse at some point - whether it's now , 6 months from now or at most 2-1/2 years from now.

There was absolutely nothing anyone could have said last summer (after the WC) or even after the Asian Cup to even suggest that a vatani coach should take over - you remember the wave of support that poured in for CQ when certain elements tried to get rid of him. And that pressure was good.

The more support CQ loses with bad or even average results, the less the chance that the fans will put pressure on IFF to make the right decisions when the time for that change finally comes (again, be it tomorrow, 6 months from now or 2-1/2 years from now) and the higher the chance IFF will do the wrong thing.

To exaggerate a bit, heaven forbid we don't make it out of this round of the qualifiers - can you imagine the shit storm raised against foreign coaches for god knows how many years to come or how many years our football program will be set back?

And that's what really scares me at this point. If there was a 50% chance that we could have ended up with another good qualified foreign coach 8 months ago, or there's a 25% chance of the same today, I don't want to be in a position 6 months from now where we're facing a 0% chance. And where we're stuck with that 0% chance for years to come.

The better CQ does, the better it is for all of us - that's a given. But the reverse is also true - the worse he does or the longer we excuse him for not doing better, the worse it will be for all of us.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to make, otherwise hats off to him if he does well for as many years as he wants to stay.

[mahestan]

Man there has to be a limit on spewing rubbish! First of all as far as the look thing is concerned, if Carlos Quieroz's name was Abdolhassan Kazemi no one would question him not being Iranian. Secondly Ali Daei not only lost to KSA, you conveniently forgot to mention TM lost at home, something which had not happened in 30 years, and that Ali Daei's terrible coaching skills failed to get us to a world cup, finishing fourth behind South Korea, North Korea and KSA. Let's not even bring Ghalenoei into this, a so called coach who puts Enayati and Khatibi on the wings, that man is as big of a joke as you are. The fact that you compare those two amateur coaches to a professional coach such as Quieroz shows what a clown you are. Also as far as i remember i'm reading you post crap about every coach we have ever had at the helm of TM so far! I personally believe that you suffer from some sort of a mental illness.

You mentioned Ghaleneoi using Enayati and Khatibi on the wings, which brings up a question. Ghaleneoi, a horrible coach, doesn't know how to utilize players, but a world class coach like CQ, why does he insist on using Hajsafi as LB when it isn't working? On top of that, starting Haghighi when he has been shaky and undependable? That seems like coaching mistakes from CQ, similar to the same mistake from Ghaleneoi. Of course I'm sure someone is gonna jump on my question and just say "we don't have players, talent, sarbazi etc etc.

[sirvan]

Hmmm... lets see.
Daei - vatani - one loss to ksa, a top Asian team ( not exactly Lebanon, right?), .... fired.
GN - vatani - a draw against asia's top 3 team (Iraq nowhere near that), ..... fired
CQ - loss to Lebanon ..... mehhhhh . Bow, bow
draw against Iraq (not exactly Asian top 5 team) ..... mehhhhh. Lets prostate in front of him.
The difference? Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Or is it a certain ''complex'' usually associated with the .. supposed ''blue eyed'' people'?

Man there has to be a limit on spewing rubbish! First of all as far as the look thing is concerned, if Carlos Quieroz's name was Abdolhassan Kazemi no one would question him not being Iranian. Secondly Ali Daei not only lost to KSA, you conveniently forgot to mention TM lost at home, something which had not happened in 30 years, and that Ali Daei's terrible coaching skills failed to get us to a world cup, finishing fourth behind South Korea, North Korea and KSA. Let's not even bring Ghalenoei into this, a so called coach who puts Enayati and Khatibi on the wings, that man is as big of a joke as you are. The fact that you compare those two amateur coaches to a professional coach such as Quieroz shows what a clown you are. Also as far as i remember i'm reading you post crap about every coach we have ever had at the helm of TM so far! I personally believe that you suffer from some sort of a mental illness.

[OFFSIDE_1]

^ in a functional federation, "change" is good and sometimes needed. However, as we all know the history of our beloved football federation, a "change" is just an opportunity for a few corrupt people to find ways to funnel more money into their own pockets. Ofcourse sometimes they miss that opportunity and we end up with an inflexible and un-pushable coach like CQ. Coaches like Ghotbi or Branko are a dime-a-dozen. Strong willed coaches like CQ who have the guts to standup to the corrupt officials in IFF are hard to find.

[Bi-honar]

Sure, and where did we get by firing them?

We got to CQ Ando jaan. And in the first 4 years CQ did add dimension to our defense, modernize our training and tactics, put pressure on IFF to become more professional and fixed a lot of other things or at least drew attention to them. And for that we should ALL be grateful and he should always have a place in our hearts.

But we do have to be a little objective about the present (not past)... he's obviously not adding anything to our defense at this point (I mean we're getting scored identical goals) and he's not modernizing anything beyond what he has done and frankly how can he when the world of football has moved ahead in the last 5 years while he has been stuck in Iran!

And IMHO (and this is my opinion) his relationship with the IFF, even though he's right about a lot of things, is more of a drag at this point than a god sent. Sometimes you just have to let go of the old and tired (and you can tell CQ is completely burnt out at this point) and inject some fresh blood.

Let's face it, we can't just keep CQ forever because we're afraid of the notion of change and that change is always for the worse. Unfortunately, this has become a prevalent psyche in the Iranian population and why we've been stuck with the same crappy IR for so long.

Change is what brought us CQ and we should be promoting the same type of change for the better, rather than just running away from it IMHO or waiting until the point where that change will most certainly be for the worse, if not worst.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ then if your football, national team players are all shit (I know mine are not) then why on earth are you spending this amount of money on a coach that YOU KNOW will not have any impact on improving your players?
Are you a lunatic to spend this kind of money but be happy when he achieves the same as the ''shit'' coaches?

Ehhhmm it kinda does. Since its not YOUR tax dollars that are paying his salary.
I mean dude seriously its not rocket science loool

Either way the most important thing is the majority of the public as well as the players are behind him. End of discussion really.

I wish people would stop taking the mention of ''tax'' so literally.
Anyone who has even a slight idea of what goes on in iran knows hardly anyone pays tax. If anyone does, it is usually the lower middle class. Nobody that SHOULD, meaning the bastards who enjoy massive loans and contracts and deal and ... pay even a rail.

Now, to put it in simple English, it is time you all learned if anyone say ''my tax dollars'' they mean ''public funds''. Every expenditure in Iran is mainly from public funds.
If you think IFF is able to generate this kind of money, you please get your head examined.

So yes, it IS my money that is spent to pay the likes of CQ.

[NFL]

You guys are making him sound like god's gift to earth. According to you guys he has single-handedly made Iranian football be visible to the world since we are so primitive and backward, so you are telling me your KING CQ isn't able to teach a simple chest trap to one of his players?

with comments like this, you only show that you don't belong to a half serious discussion about TM.. What fucking national team coach teaches his national team players how to do a chest trap??

Your football is full of shit, that is: shit players, shit coaches, shit facilities, shit management, shit ownership, shit media, shit fans. add to this list the massive Islamic corruption commonly in practice in that shit hole of a country..

picture what I just described and think about it for a few minutes. Understand the ramification of having so many SHIT aspects in our shitty country..
then consider that some fans come here to rant about the head coach and expect (demand) that the national team coach teach the national team players how to do a chest trap..


your national team player should have already been able to do simple chest trap and simple passes WAY WAY before he made it to the national team, but why can't he??? that's a question that you have to ask your talented IPL players and all those coaches who have worked with these talented players for years and years , day in and day out !!!

[MR.S]

TM staff communicated them the lineup.

i don't even want to argument u on this one good thing its just a day left to the game

Z Joon I see that u put a smiley like this in front of each and everyone of your post HAHAHA nice that u are having yourself a good laugh buddy
1 out of 100 times i could be wrong

It slipped my mind that in some rare cases the head-coaches talk to each-other and make the lineup official, although I must emphasize that this phenomenon has nothing to do with a competition just being a friendly. Wrote it here because of the discussion going on in this thread.

I think cq wasted a good friendly with the selections he made before and during the game. But we don't know if it was to fire up the players who didnt deliver during the Oman game, or if it was to divert attention for the poor results from himself to the players , there are many possible reasons. As i wrote earlier he got some issues, but if u judge him from an overall perspective, my opinion is that he is very beneficial for our football.

[MR.S]

cq got some issues, but if u judge him from an overall perspective he is very benefical for our football