Esteghlal Fan Thread...

[maij]

طيرى وساطت كرد، بيك زاده به كرمان رفت

قلعه نوى بازيكن تنبل نمى خواهد

ايران ورزشى- هاشم بيك زاده كه در مقاومت هم بازيكن پر سر و صدايى بود و بارها صداى پيروانى را در آورد و سرهنگ جعفر جعفرى هم به دفعات از اين بازيكن گله مى كرد در استقلال هم روزهاى خوبى را پشت سر نمى گذارد. بيك زاده كه با سر و صداى بسيارى به استقلال آمد به دليل شدت ناآمادگى و ضعف در ارسال توپ از قاب چشمان امير قلعه نويى فاصله گرفته است و ژنرال را مجاب كرد تا او را ميان بازيكنان اصلى تيمش قرار ندهد. اين شرايط باعث شده بيك زاده كه فكر مى كرد با آمدن به استقلال تبديل به سوگولى آبى ها شود، نسبت به آينده اش در استقلال نااميد شود. در همين راستا شنيده مى شود اگر وساطت اميد طيرى نمى بود بيك زاده حتى از سفر به كرمان هم محروم مى شد. قلعه نويى در حال حاضر معتقد است كه مهدى اميرآبادى نياز او را در جناح چپ برطرف مى كند و خسرو حيدرى هم در سمت راست خط ميانى تيمش بازيكن مورد اعتمادى است. به اين ترتيب او با چنين اظهار نظرى در واقع بى نيازى اش را نسبت به هاشم بيك زاده اعلام كرده است. پيش بينى مى شود بيك زاده در اين فصل كمترين بازى ممكن را در استقلال داشته باشد و با توجه به اينكه قراردادش يكساله است در پايان فصل اولين بازيكن جدا شده از استقلال باشد مگرآن كه او در تمرينات روزهاى آتى نظر قلعه نويى را جلب كند و آرام آرام به تركيب اصلى وارد شود. آنچه مسلم است بيك زاده با اين ناآمادگى بدنى جايى در تركيب اصلى استقلال ندارد. به طورى كه مى شنويم حتى قلعه نويى در تمرينات تيمش هم بارها لب به اعتراض باز مى كند و حتى بابت پرتاب هاى اوت بيك زاده هم ناراحت مى شود البته شايعه جر و بحث لفظى بيك زاده و قلعه نويى هم شنيده مى شود اما مى بايست تا پس از بازى استقلال و مس كرمان صبر كرد و ديد ژنرال در قبال بيك زاده كه بار مالى بسيارى هم براى استقلال به همراه داشت چه تصميمى خواهد گرفت. بيك زاده پيش از شروع فصل به دليل مصدوميت هاى پى در پى تمرينات آماده سازى را به دفعات از دست داده و در ۴۰ بازى اخير استقلال هم هيچ گاه با پيراهن استقلال در ميدان مسابقه ديده نشده است.

[yashar_fasihnia]

I watched him in Turkey and when he was in Bargh and Saba Battery (althought he didn't get much playing time there), his dead body has better ball handling from Alizadeh. You will see.
Running for a target forward all over the field isn't the right thing. It isnt' just pure amount of running. As a matter of fact, if the target forward pulls back too much, he allows opponenets defense shorten the length of the field and easily join the attack.
To be honest as much as I know and while not a specialist, I did a presentation on target forward for my coaching license, certain runs to depth of the opponents defense and not coming back too much is the right thing for the forward target. That was one of the worst thing, Daie toward the end of his carrier doing coming back so much (Hashemian did the same in Portugal game granted that was pure pressure of Portugeese and our player running so slow as if they had shit their pants by mere seeing themselves in the same field with Portugeese). Daie by running backward (same with Enayati in the AFC) with not a very targeted running, weren't as fast on the runs that, they needed to be 100%. Remember goal Enayati missed against Mexico (Friendly in Mexico)?
Guess we have different opinions about this, but do a search on the net on soccer tactics books about target forward and you will see for yourslef.
Again, I am not saying a target forward shouldn't run and make space and create confusions, but ideally I want to see lateral runs or runs into the space in the depth of opponents defense (which in this case wasn't possible, since Mes was defending with 11 players in areas (8,12,10,9).

im not talking about running all the way back to midfield. akbarpour and majidi do that really well.
im talking about running and supporting ur team mates around the penalty area.
when the ball goes to the side and ur team mate has the ball, if u dont go there and provide support, he will eventually end up either trying to cross the ball (we saw our poor the crosses were) or lose the ball.
a target man definitely doesnt have to keep running around and has to pressurize the opponents defense, but, he certainly doesnt have to wait only in the penalty area and wait for high balls to come his way. thats exactly wat abbasfard did in both games he played so far, against pegah and against mes.

enayati and khalili on the other hand often move to the sides and support their team mates but that doesnt mean the opponents defense feels less pressure, why? because another team mate, maybe the second striker (akbarpour) in this case or the midfielders (jabbari, majidi or even beygzadeh) can move infront and fill up that space.
its a matter of movement and creating space and providing support.

watch iran's 1st goal against USA in worldcup 1998.
estili our defensive midfielder scored from a header near the penalty spot because that area was empty and estilli the midfielder moved up to that empty space and filled it up. it doesnt always have to be the target forward standing in the middle of the penalty area waiting for the ball. the target striker, because he is marked by the defender tightly often opens up the defense and creates space for his team mates by moving sideways or around the penalty area. this creates space for the second striker or the midfielder to move up there and then not only fill up that empty space but also confuse the opponents defense!

sometimes, the target man is closer to his teammate on the side or in a better position to play a passing combo or provide some support to his team mate rather than a midfielder or a second striker. in this case, he should move there and do it. he shouldnt worry about his spot being emtpy because someone else should move up and fill up his place. his priority is providing support to his team mate who is all alone and is about to lose the ball.

u remember our goal against sepahan last week?
u know who started it? alizadeh..
watch our goal here from 6:55 onwards:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bHfs7Y9I8&e

notice how alizadeh, who was our target striker runs for the ball after the cross isnt accurate enough, and tries to keep it in the field. ball reaches amirabadi and by this time, jabbari and even pirouz ghorbani have moved up in the penalty area and filled up alizadeh's empty space.

on the other hand, abbasfard was just waiting near the penalty area and waiting for crosses. if the ball is 5 cm that way, he will stand there, waiting for someone else to collect the loose ball and cross again.

as for his ball skills, we will see in the near future but the very fact that he didnt get much play time in any of the previous teams, didnt score for any of his previous teams and keeps changing teams every 1 or 2 years says a lot...

[Ali Chicago]

im not talking about running all the way back to midfield. akbarpour and majidi do that really well.
im talking about running and supporting ur team mates around the penalty area.
when the ball goes to the side and ur team mate has the ball, if u dont go there and provide support, he will eventually end up either trying to cross the ball (we saw our poor the crosses were) or lose the ball.
a target man definitely doesnt have to keep running around and has to pressurize the opponents defense, but, he certainly doesnt have to wait only in the penalty area and wait for high balls to come his way. thats exactly wat abbasfard did in both games he played so far, against pegah and against mes.

enayati and khalili on the other hand often move to the sides and support their team mates but that doesnt mean the opponents defense feels less pressure, why? because another team mate, maybe the second striker (akbarpour) in this case or the midfielders (jabbari, majidi or even beygzadeh) can move infront and fill up that space.
its a matter of movement and creating space and providing support.

watch iran's 1st goal against USA in worldcup 1998.
estili our defensive midfielder scored from a header near the penalty spot because that area was empty and estilli the midfielder moved up to that empty space and filled it up. it doesnt always have to be the target forward standing in the middle of the penalty area waiting for the ball. the target striker, because he is marked by the defender tightly often opens up the defense and creates space for his team mates by moving sideways or around the penalty area. this creates space for the second striker or the midfielder to move up there and then not only fill up that empty space but also confuse the opponents defense!

sometimes, the target man is closer to his teammate on the side or in a better position to play a passing combo or provide some support to his team mate rather than a midfielder or a second striker. in this case, he should move there and do it. he shouldnt worry about his spot being emtpy because someone else should move up and fill up his place. his priority is providing support to his team mate who is all alone and is about to lose the ball.

u remember our goal against sepahan last week?
u know who started it? alizadeh..
watch our goal here from 6:55 onwards:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bHfs7Y9I8&e

notice how alizadeh, who was our target striker runs for the ball after the cross isnt accurate enough, and tries to keep it in the field. ball reaches amirabadi and by this time, jabbari and even pirouz ghorbani have moved up in the penalty area and filled up alizadeh's empty space.

on the other hand, abbasfard was just waiting near the penalty area and waiting for crosses. if the ball is 5 cm that way, he will stand there, waiting for someone else to collect the loose ball and cross again.

as for his ball skills, we will see in the near future but the very fact that he didnt get much play time in any of the previous teams, didnt score for any of his previous teams and keeps changing teams every 1 or 2 years says a lot...

I agree with everything you said here in general and theory. I think you keep missing a fundemental point though. Mes Kerman was defending with 11 players. Even Zalderon was way beck defending. So in that case, there isn't space in the first place and Target forward has one thing and one thing only, to attack the area 12 (a rectangle of say 6 yard width, 6 yard length) right in front of the goal in the air. That was the only thing he was sent in for. Alizadeh isn't half as effective as Abbasfard in the air. Abbasfard is an specialist (not a superstar, but an aerial specialist). Bayern got Daie for the exact same reason. If there are games that defense packs the back good and no other way around, Bayern could have attacke in the air.

Watch Iran Germany game in WC 98. See how Germany kept attackign the center of Iran's defense thorough the air. One half we withstood their onslaught, but eventually Kliensman hurt us right from there.

Anyhow, one has to write a Masnavi (all the details). But a target forward in the situations like that (opponent defending with 10 players) attacks the aerial ball either in the first or the second post. That is all he needs to do. His runs has to be limited into the box. He Shouldn't and I repeat SHOULDNOT, move to the corners (first it takes space away from the wingers or left or right midfielders) and secondly, he will be out of position (front of the goal).

Review the second goal of Hashemain to Japan on the cross from Ali Karimi in Tehran. That is a perfect example of what is expected from Abbasfard. If he fails to do that, all the criticizem is justified, so far I think he hasn't. I agree his peroformance hasnt' been stellar or anything to wirte home about, but lack of running in the situation like Mes Keram (who was defending with 11 players) wasn't his shortcoming.

For the record again, neither Khalili or Enayati are known for their aerial attack, they are good goal scorers (as they used to say in Iran Mordeh Khoor). Great example at the internatioanl level was Gerhard Muller in Germany in early and mid 70s. Abbasfard isnt' a goal scorer per se, he is an specialist (in aerial attack). I hope you see the difference in their abilities and hence the difference in what they need to do.

[yashar_fasihnia]

I agree with everything you said here in general and theory. I think you keep missing a fundemental point though. Mes Kerman was defending with 11 players. Even Zalderon was way beck defending. So in that case, there isn't space in the first place and Target forward has one thing and one thing only, to attack the area 12 (a rectangle of say 6 yard width, 6 yard length) right in front of the goal in the air. That was the only thing he was sent in for. Alizadeh isn't half as effective as Abbasfard in the air. Abbasfard is an specialist (not a superstar, but an aerial specialist). Bayern got Daie for the exact same reason. If there are games that defense packs the back good and no other way around, Bayern could have attacke in the air.
Watch Iran Germany game in WC 98. See how Germany kept attackign the center of Iran's defense thorough the air. One half we withstood their onslaught, but eventually Kliensman hurt us right from there.
Anyhow, one has to write a Masnavi (all the details). But a target forward in the situations like that (opponent defending with 10 players) attacks the aerial ball either in the first or the second post. That is all he needs to do. His runs has to be limited into the box. He Shouldn't and I repeat SHOULDNOT, move to the corners (first it takes space away from the wingers or left or right midfielders) and secondly, he will be out of position (front of the goal).
Review the second goal of Hashemain to Japan on the cross from Ali Karimi in Tehran. That is a perfect example of what is expected from Abbasfard. If he fails to do that, all the criticizem is justified, so far I think he hasn't. I agree his peroformance hasnt' been stellar or anything to wirte home about, but lack of running in the situation like Mes Keram (who was defending with 11 players) wasn't his shortcoming.
For the record again, neither Khalili or Enayati are known for their aerial attack, they are good goal scorers (as they used to say in Iran Mordeh Khoor). Great example at the internatioanl level was Gerhard Muller in Germany in early and mid 70s. Abbasfard isnt' a goal scorer per se, he is an specialist (in aerial attack). I hope you see the difference in their abilities and hence the difference in what they need to do.

hashemians goal against japan happened because karimi was there next to the corner flag to cross the ball, so hashemian was where he should be (penalty area) and headed it in.
but if karimi wasnt there and the ball was rolling freely over there, hashemian would himself run for the ball next to the corner flag.
abbasfard wouldnt do that and infact at one scene in the game didnt do that and after a long delay he suddenly realized he had to go for it but it was too late then..
abbasfard should have moved to the side if the situation arose like it did even if mes was defending with 11 players to make sure esteghlal still maintains ball possession but he wouldnt...

besides, if ghalenoi really wanted to just pour aerial balls into the penalty area to score in the dying minutes when mess was defending with 11 players, then he shouldnt have subbed out alizadeh at all for 2 VERY CRUCIAL reasons:
1)he maybe not be better than ababsfard in aerial battles but he for sure is better than the rest of the esteghlal forwards and midfielders in aerial battles. so keep alizadeh and remove a short midfielder or forward.
2)his throw ins which are even more dangerous than corner kicks. so he would provide more aerial opportunities for abbasfard and the rest of the team.

how is abbasfard gonna fight mehdy rahmati,A.H. sadeghi and morteza ebrahimi all alone by himself in aerial battles? that too with the crap crosses our players were sending???
if the objective of ghalenoi was to score in the dying minutes on aerial balls, then pulling out alizadeh was totally wrong.

P.S. bayern didnt get daei only for those packed situations. aerial attacks were always part of bayerns plans whether the opponent had compact defense or not. they had carsten jancker or ali daei paired up with giovanni elber upfront. franz beckenbauer himself picked daei (just like magath picked karimi on a personal choice) because he saw great potential in him as a forward, not only as someone who u send when the opponent is playing compact defense and he is expected to head the ball.

P.P.S germany iran game 1998. first of all, bierhoff scored on an aerial ball on us, not klinsman. klinsman took a shot which hit the post and headed it back jumping sidewards into an empty net. secondly, germany didnt send in bierhoff to play only aerial balls to beat our compact defense and neither bierhoff nor klinsmann just stayed in the penalty area waiting for aerial balls from all sides unlike our game against mes.

[Ali Chicago]

hashemians goal against japan happened because karimi was there next to the corner flag to cross the ball,

Exactly my point, Vahid stayed there and didn't go to the cornder flags to don't pull with himself more Japaneese players and leave space for Karimi.

so hashemian was where he should be (penalty area) and headed it in.
but if karimi wasnt there and the ball was rolling freely over there, hashemian would himself run for the ball next to the corner flag.
abbasfard wouldnt do that and infact at one scene in the game didnt do that and after a long delay he suddenly realized he had to go for it but it was too late then..
abbasfard should have moved to the side if the situation arose like it did even if mes was defending with 11 players to make sure esteghlal still maintains ball possession but he wouldnt...

besides, if ghalenoi really wanted to just pour aerial balls into the penalty area to score in the dying minutes when mess was defending with 11 players, then he shouldnt have subbed out alizadeh at all for 2 VERY CRUCIAL reasons:
1)he maybe not be better than ababsfard in aerial battles but he for sure is better than the rest of the esteghlal forwards and midfielders in aerial battles. so keep alizadeh and remove a short midfielder or forward.
2)his throw ins which are even more dangerous than corner kicks. so he would provide more aerial opportunities for abbasfard and the rest of the team.

how is abbasfard gonna fight mehdy rahmati,A.H. sadeghi and morteza ebrahimi all alone by himself in aerial battles? that too with the crap crosses our players were sending???
if the objective of ghalenoi was to score in the dying minutes on aerial balls, then pulling out alizadeh was totally wrong.

No point in going back and forth. Alizadeh is being pulled out because GN at times, either doesn't have the ball to put former SS stars out or withstand SS fans pressure. As for the GN 's tactic, watch the second half again, see where Borhani is, on the line (to stretch the Mes's defense). See Baykzadeh's crosses, same with Khosro Haydari's crosses. You see Jabbari was totally pulled out of the play in the second part of the second half.

Target forward always faces the central defenders and goali. He will loose 9 out of 10 balls, but if he scores one goal or pass the ball back so his team scores, he had done his job.

P.S. bayern didnt get daei only for those packed situations. aerial attacks were always part of bayerns plans whether the opponent had compact defense or not. they had carsten jancker or ali daei paired up with giovanni elber upfront. franz beckenbauer himself picked daei (just like magath picked karimi on a personal choice) because he saw great potential in him as a forward, not only as someone who u send when the opponent is playing compact defense and he is expected to head the ball.

And is this your opinion right? Just go and see the stats when Daie was brought in for Bayern. Daie even in WC 98, didnt' have ball handling, turning, or protecting the ball under pressure. He was great in the air and had decent free kicks. I dont' want to go back and forth anymore though. As I told you, I did my coaching final exam theory part on target forwards, so probably I know a thing or two about this and application of theory, but it seems, our points pass each other, so I guess we agree to disagree.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Exactly my point, Vahid stayed there and didn't go to the cornder flags to don't pull with himself more Japaneese players and leave space for Karimi.

because karimi was there and didnt need hashemians support!! thats exactly my point. if karimi wasnt there or if karimi wanted help because he was being out numbered by defenders, hashemian had to go for his help.

No point in going back and forth. Alizadeh is being pulled out because GN at times, either doesn't have the ball to put former SS stars out or withstand SS fans pressure. As for the GN 's tactic, watch the second half again, see where Borhani is, on the line (to stretch the Mes's defense). See Baykzadeh's crosses, same with Khosro Haydari's crosses. You see Jabbari was totally pulled out of the play in the second part of the second half.

yes i did. in the beginning when borhani came in, he played near the left line, and beygzadeh and him combined well twice. borhani made 2 great runs there, but both ended in no result. first cross was pathetic with his left foot and went behind the goal. second one came to nothing.
after that, nothing else happened.

Target forward always faces the central defenders and goali. He will loose 9 out of 10 balls, but if he scores one goal or pass the ball back so his team scores, he had done his job.

sorry but i disagree. target forward faces the central defender and goali ONLY when the rest of his team mates are all well spread around the penalty area and can play with each other. in that case, the target forward basically waits for the ball.

And is this your opinion right? Just go and see the stats when Daie was brought in for Bayern. Daie even in WC 98, didnt' have ball handling, turning, or protecting the ball under pressure. He was great in the air and had decent free kicks. I dont' want to go back and forth anymore though. As I told you, I did my coaching final exam theory part on target forwards, so probably I know a thing or two about this and application of theory, but it seems, our points pass each other, so I guess we agree to disagree.

ur totally wrong on this case then i should say. i have seen enough bayern games (im a hardcore bayern munich fan). daei started many games for bayern and came on as sub many other times when the opponent WASNT PLAYING A COMPACT DEFENSE. when it was first announced that daei would sign with bayern, it was mentioned everywhere that franz beckenbauer had personally liked daei's game and picked him with his own personal preference.
but why go far, look at TM games.
our 2 most important goals in our football history came through good ball control, and perfect passes of daei under pressure.

1)against australia. mark bosnich took the goal kick, bagheri headed it back in the midfield, daei while being under pressure AND MARKED MAN TO MAN by one of the aussie defenders stopped the ball, turned beautifully and while under pressure from another australian midfielder, placed a perfect through pass to azizi and azizi scored.


2)against US. again, during the counter attack near the side line while being marked AGAIN MAN TO MAN under pressure from the american defender, daei placed a perfect through pass with his left foot for mahdavikia who scored again. the goal is in minute 1:40. if u r interested and want to see a more clearer version of the goal, please search on youtube.


aliagha, yes, ur the coach, ur the one who has done his exam on target forwards, but time will show how slow, immobile and ineffective abbasfard is even compared to alizadeh and soon abbasfard will be looking for a new club (AGAIN!). i wont be the least surprised if ghalenoi continues to play alizadeh ahead of abbasfard until the end of the season, and im sure, compared to ghalenoi, u would be the one needing a book on tactics and target forwards.

so until that time, like u said, lets agree to disagree.

[Ali Chicago]

.....
aliagha, yes, ur the coach, ur the one who has done his exam on target forwards, but time will show how slow, immobile and ineffective abbasfard is even compared to alizadeh and soon abbasfard will be looking for a new club (AGAIN!). i wont be the least surprised if ghalenoi continues to play alizadeh ahead of abbasfard until the end of the season, and im sure, compared to ghalenoi, u would be the one needing a book on tactics and target forwards.

so until that time, like u said, lets agree to disagree.

Just one thing to clarify, GN's insistence on playing Alizadeh is beyond me and to be hones it is very puzzling to me. So if GN for whatever reason, tries to rely on Alizadeh and not support to start Abbasfard or use tactics that abbasfard can be utilized properly, it won't be fair to say, see Abbasfard wasn't successful in SS.

Alizadeh, consistently gets at least 65 minutes of the game with no real contribution except throw ins. I dont' need to remind you how Branko insisted on Daie and as a result a generation of other forwards were burnt. Not saying Abbas fard is the best and all. All I am saying is coache's trust and taste, tactics has a lot to do with the success or lack of success of a player in a team. Not back tracking or anything, just stipulating.

[Ali Chicago]

كرد؟ البته اين تيم عباسفرد را هم براى چنين پروژه اى به خدمت گرفته اما وقتى ميان سانتركننده ها و قطع كننده ها تمرينى به قصد هماهنگى صورت نپذيرفتند، استقلال تا كى مى خواهد و مى تواند به اين وضعيت و با اين شكل ادامه دهد؟

[Ali Chicago]

Another interesting question about Alizadeh?


For those who can't read Farsi. It askes what is the role of the Alizadeh in SS forward line? Is he supposed to be used for his aerial attack? For his speed? For his ball handing and ability to beat its defender? Does he have amazing shots? Is he setting up other SS forwards? His only proven ability is his throw ins? Then the article asks why then he is a starter?


جاى عليزاده كجاست
اين سرمربى استقلال است كه بايد پاسخگوى نتايج خود باشد چرا كه همگان مى دانند كه تيم فصل جارى با سليقه او و دوستانش بسته شده و كادر مديريتى كمترين نظر را داشته و لذا او است كه براساس سليقه، نوع تركيب خود و حريفان، ميزان آمادگى، زمين مسابقه و خلاصه تاكتيك مورد نظر را طراحى و ۱۱ نفر خود را روانه ميدان مى كند اما ما هم اين حق را داريم كه بپرسيم كه جاى على عليزاده در سيستم قلعه نويى كجا است. او سرزن و بلند پرواز است او سريع و چالاك است، او دريبل زن ريزه كار و پنالتى بگير است. او شوت زن و چارچوب شناس است. او پاسور و خلاق است يا دست هاى او به جاى پاهايش كار مى كند! هر كدام از اينها باشد ۴ ديدار جواب نداده اما چه اصرارى است كه او مرد ثابت باشد. بر ما پوشيده است

[Siavash]

Its not easy to figure out GN. he is a complicated man for sure. Too many good players will not give you victory. How to use them right it may.

[yashar_fasihnia]

noone denies how poor alizadeh is...
i have always said it, even in my last post. he belongs to 1st division azadegan.
BUT ABBASFARD IS WORSE THAN HIM!

atleast, alizadeh runs a lot pressurizing the opponents and provides good throw ins.
abbasfard just stands and waits for balls to come to him.

i would love to have toni and drogba playing for my team but when my options are alizadeh and ababsfard, i would rather see alizadeh play.

and ali agha, ghalenoi is a much more accomplished coach than u or me (im not even a coach, nor have anything to do with football except a fan).
besides that, he is close to the team, to the players and he has his analysers, fitness trainers, dieticians, etc.
now if ghalenoi and his team keep insisting on alizadeh rather than abbasfard, there is a reason for it.

if u dont want to accept ghalenoi's decision of preferring alizadeh over abbasfard, then there is no way u or me will ever settle this discussion because even if ghalenoi prefers alizadeh, u have ur reasons to justify abbasfards absence and provide daei in the worldcup as an example.
alizadeh is not a big name or a hero in esteghlal like jabbari or talebloo are. so benching alizadeh and replacing him with abbasfard wont really be a difficult thing. inspite of this, ghalenoi prefers alizadeh over abbasfard... it should make u wonder why...

sorry but i cant accept daei in the worldcup as a relevant comparison to the abbasfard - alizadeh situation.
to me, the situation is something similar to vahid talebloo and ashkan namdari situation. ashkan namdari is inferior to vahid talebloo and will remain his sub as long as vahid talebloo is available and fit. thats how i see the situation.
if u think ghalenoi is doing lajbazi like u think branko did with daei, thats ur opinion.
but this doesnt mean i think alizadeh is any good. it just means no matter how crap alizadeh is, abbasfard is only worse and his contributions are even less than the absolutely minimal contribution alizadeh does to the team!

i dunno if abbasfard signed 1 year or 2 years with us, but if he signed 1 year, im expecting him to join a new club end of the season ..AGAIN...and fail...AGAIN!

[shayan20]

Alizadeh dar hade time shirinfaraz ham nist.

He is a headache for any fan of a team to have. It's so hard to see why SS can't get a decent striker (Enayati, Khatibi, Rajabzadeh) instead of Alizadeh who imo is nothing without his long throws.
Majidi and Akbarpoor are decent ones, not sure about abasfard but SS defenitely needs to replace alizadeh.

[Siavash]

^ and Akbarpour

[Ali Chicago]

.....
and ali agha, ghalenoi is a much more accomplished coach than u or me (im not even a coach, nor have anything to do with football except a fan).
besides that, he is close to the team, to the players and he has his analysers, fitness trainers, dieticians, etc.
now if ghalenoi and his team keep insisting on alizadeh rather than abbasfard, there is a reason for it.
if u dont want to accept ghalenoi's decision of preferring alizadeh over abbasfard, then there is no way u or me will ever settle this discussion because even if ghalenoi prefers alizadeh, u have ur reasons to justify abbasfards absence and provide daei in the worldcup as an example.
alizadeh is not a big name or a hero in esteghlal like jabbari or talebloo are. so benching alizadeh and replacing him with abbasfard wont really be a difficult thing. inspite of this, ghalenoi prefers alizadeh over abbasfard... it should make u wonder why...
sorry but i cant accept daei in the worldcup as a relevant comparison to the abbasfard - alizadeh situation.
to me, the situation is something similar to vahid talebloo and ashkan namdari situation. ashkan namdari is inferior to vahid talebloo and will remain his sub as long as vahid talebloo is available and fit. thats how i see the situation.
if u think ghalenoi is doing lajbazi like u think branko did with daei, thats ur opinion.
but this doesnt mean i think alizadeh is any good. it just means no matter how crap alizadeh is, abbasfard is only worse and his contributions are even less than the absolutely minimal contribution alizadeh does to the team!
i dunno if abbasfard signed 1 year or 2 years with us, but if he signed 1 year, im expecting him to join a new club end of the season ..AGAIN...and fail...AGAIN!

Did I try to assasinate GN for his decision ????LOL. So far I was blamed by Ala and company being a GN supporter and now by you challenging him? !!!
No dada, I am just with my limited knowledge think Alizadeh start is a poor decision. Even more importantly, not buying a good target forward by GN during the off season is even a more important mistake.

I myself in Turkey camp saw how a Brazilian agent was trying to sell two forwards to GN. I even helped to translate. Omid Tayari, GN and Dr. Hamid Khodad were there. Heck, the CD that was made for the player promotion, I played on my own laptop. I saw how irresponsibly decisions were made with my own eyes (GN knowing we don't have a good target, but hiring a whole bunch of midfielders instead).

I am not in love with Abbasfard, but I definilty think he is better than Alizadeh. Abbasfard doesn't run back too far or run like a headless chicken (like Alizadeh) all around the 18 yard box but not inside it is a good thing. He stays in the target area is a good point about him (as a target forward).

So to reiterate Abbasfard isn't like a superstar but heck of a lot better than Alizadeh. Whether he be succesful or not in SS depends on a lot of factors among other things SS style of play and tactic in order to enable him to show his potential and of course his desire and mental abilities (to perform under pressure).

But these don't matter, It is amazing how you keep using this argument coach is always right. Of course no one says, I know more than GN, but no one is perfect. While GN is right 95% of the time, there is a possibilty of him being 5% wrong. That 5% wrong doesn't make him a bad person or whatever.

Why do you see this a black and white issue? I am not the one who goes left and right and ciriticize this or that coache's decision. I waited for more than even a season to criticize Alizadeh's startign position. Last season since our Midfield wasn't that good, Alizadeh's starting wasn't hurting us as much. This year with this strong midfield we have (I still think Jabbari, Kazemi both needs to sit out a game or at least dont' start), and a good target forward next to Akbarpoor can demolish any defense.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Did I try to assasinate GN for his decision ????LOL. So far I was blamed by Ala and company being a GN supporter and now by you challenging him? !!!

i dont understand wat ur trying to say here but i take it ur joking??

No dada, I am just with my limited knowledge think Alizadeh start is a poor decision.

ahan, nice and simple. with my limited knowledge, i think among our options, alizadeh starting is the best decision.
between, bad and worse, i would choose bad and i think starting alizadeh is the bad option and abbasfard the worse option.

short and sweet

Even more importantly, not buying a good target forward by GN during the off season is even a more important mistake.

biggest mistake i agree. we tried to get toure but he joined perspolis.

I myself in Turkey camp saw how a Brazilian agent was trying to sell two forwards to GN. I even helped to translate. Omid Tayari, GN and Dr. Hamid Khodad were there. Heck, the CD that was made for the player promotion, I played on my own laptop. I saw how irresponsibly decisions were made with my own eyes (GN knowing we don't have a good target, but hiring a whole bunch of midfielders instead).

thankyou for sharing ur experience.

I am not in love with Abbasfard, but I definilty think he is better than Alizadeh. Abbasfard doesn't run back too far or run like a headless chicken (like Alizadeh) all around the 18 yard box but not inside it is a good thing. He stays in the target area is a good point about him (as a target forward).
So to reiterate Abbasfard isn't like a superstar but heck of a lot better than Alizadeh.

same can be said about me, except that i would prefer alizadeh over abbasfard.
wat u call running like a headless chicken, i would call pressurizing the opponent.
and wat u call waiting in the box as his strong point, i would say lack of mobility and hence more pressure on the other esteghlal players to do the rest of the job, like daei during worldcup 2006.

Whether he be succesful or not in SS depends on a lot of factors among other things SS style of play and tactic in order to enable him to show his potential and of course his desire and mental abilities (to perform under pressure).

true, but when ghalenoi bought abbasfard, he knew abbasfards strong and weak points. he knew the rest of the teams strengths and weaknesses.
he knew his own tactic cariations as well.

and the fact that ghalenoi continues to start alizadeh inspite of playing different tactics, playing different opponents, playing different situations , etc tells me atleast something.

But these don't matter, It is amazing how you keep using this argument coach is always right. Of course no one says, I know more than GN, but no one is perfect. While GN is right 95% of the time, there is a possibilty of him being 5% wrong. That 5% wrong doesn't make him a bad person or whatever.

again, i didnt say coach is always right and that coaches never make mistake.
u told me to go take a book about tactics and read.
so i said, compared to ghalenoi, u will be needing a book on tactics to read.
just like ghalenoi is 95% of the time right and 5% wrong compared to u, u as a coach who has passed an exam about target strikers can be right 95% of the time and wrong 5% of time compared to me, correct??

Why do you see this a black and white issue? I am not the one who goes left and right and ciriticize this or that coache's decision. I waited for more than even a season to criticize Alizadeh's startign position. Last season since our Midfield wasn't that good, Alizadeh's starting wasn't hurting us as much. This year with this strong midfield we have (I still think Jabbari, Kazemi both needs to sit out a game or at least dont' start), and a good target forward next to Akbarpoor can demolish any defense.

i dont think i see this issue as black and white. i said im beginning to see why ghalenoi prefers alizadeh over abbasfard and considering
1)m own reasons which i mentioned earlier why i prefer alizadeh over abbasfard
2)ghalenoi has all those advantages over u as a coach
i think starting alizadeh over abbasfard is the right decision.

how is this a black and white issue??