NKorea - Iran

[Martin-Reza]

1- LOL ... coz we've been thrashing and pummeling asian teams left and right with ease ... getting 6 straight wins ... nay, 6 straight obliterations along the way !
right ?

Oh, I forgot, simply by using a good tactical system Hashemian becomes Eto'o, Karimi is 23 again and Aghili is the reborn Fraco Baresi.

Now do I have to explain to you that there are more factors determining the outcome of a game than plainly the tactical system?

2- once again MORE MENTION OF "what SHOULD BE, according to the text books and magazine" and LESS MENTION OF "what ACTUALLY goes on in REALITY" !!!!!!

The text books and magazines explain the reality. And I am surely not watching less football than you do. So what great inputs do you have for knowing the realities that much better than me and all the football literature written by people knowing more about football than you?

When you can distinguish a 4-3-3 from a 4-2-3-1, come back here.

[Doctor DOOM]

I actually think the 4-2-3-1 formation is one of the systems suiting Iran's strengths.

1- LOL ... coz we've been thrashing and pummeling asian teams left and right with ease ... getting 6 straight wins ... nay, 6 straight obliterations along the way !
right ?
hehehe ... martin jan, you just crack me up

how's ur soup turning out? tasted it yet? must be "blissful" !

oh, btw, while we're on the subject: exactly WHAT are Iran's strengths anyway?

If you only look at the offense, it allows you to have 2 wingers and a central playmaker on the cost of a second striker, compared to a classic 4-4-2.

I think we traditionally have good wingers and good offensive midfielders, and not so many good strikers, so this system allows us to capitalize on those strengths.

2- once again MORE MENTION OF "what SHOULD BE, according to the text books and magazine" and LESS MENTION OF "what ACTUALLY goes on in REALITY" !!!!!!

[Martin-Reza]

^ Well, there is no problem in not liking the 4-2-3-1 formation. As you can read the argument was about the proposed alternative.

I actually think the 4-2-3-1 formation is one of the systems suiting Iran's strengths.

If you only look at the offense, it allows you to have 2 wingers and a central playmaker on the cost of a second striker, compared to a classic 4-4-2.

I think we traditionally have good wingers and good offensive midfielders, and not so many good strikers, so this system allows us to capitalize on those strengths.

Looking at the other alternatives, the 4-4-2 flat and the 4-3-3 do not have a central offensive player behind the strikers. The 4-4-2 diamond on the other hand doesn't allow us to have wingers or side midfielder, the width has to come from the fullbacks mostly.

With keyplayers like Karimi, Mahdavikia or Zandi aging, the advantages of a 4-2-3-1 for us are diminishing. I would have no problem with a more classic 4-4-2, without Karimi and with Shojaei or Khalatbari as supporting striker for example, but also maybe with a second more classic striker, like Borhani or even a second target striker. I also would have no problem with a 4-4-2 diamond, without Mahdavikia and a real left midfielder as well, and four more central midfielders instead.

But looking at the pool of players, I think playing with one striker and having more offensive players behind him instead, is not such a sacrifice, and therefore the 4-2-3-1 remains attractive.

[TrueBlue]

There is no "not working". Come out of your black and white world!

MR jan, I have problems with TM adapting 4-2-3-1 formation as well, not because the formation itself is bad, but simply because of the fact that we are missing players who can perform and deliver in two key roles in that formation:

1- Lone striker up top: can anyone here please tell me WHO in the current TM roster can fill that position?

2- Creative central midfielder: I was really hoping Karimi could deliver after being called up again, well, I personally didnt like what I saw.

Now fill those two spots and 4-2-3-1 will be a killer formation (in the old days, a young and fit Karimi and in form Daei delivered time and time again). Besides the two points mentioned above I was baffled by Ghotbi's player selection.... I have said in other posts as well, as far as my limited memory can serve, Shojaee doesnt not have experience playing as LW, Nosrati despite being somewhat convincing, has been away from competative matches for very long time (he fulfilled his defensive responsibilities but offensively....) and P. Nouri as DM ???

[Martin-Reza]

There is no "not working". Come out of your black and white world!

[Doctor DOOM]

You talk about TM like they were Maldedives' U12 women's team. And even they would play better in a real system than in one made up by Dr. Doom.

And you are too much into black-or-white thinking here. It's not about working or not working, it's about how good or how bad it works.

You argue something is not working, so it doesn't matter what we do. That is not a valid approach. We could be much worse in any department, and your tactical proposals would assure that.

Those templates have been created by experts over years. You are coming with general statements to counter that. How is a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 a fork and Iran's football a soup?

This is nonsense. Who is supposed to invent a "spoon" then? You? Who did so in the past? Who was the last one to invent a "spoon" outside the "template forks"? Give examples. You are talking and talking and are losing touch with the real world completely.

1- no. I argue if something is not working, TRY another .

if ur fork isnt helping w ur soup, try picking up a spoon. maybe that'll help.


2- no. "I" am coming with TM ( ie; IRAN ) games as evidence that the system doesnt work for us.
not what is written in ur manual which "YOU" keep referring to.
remember?


too much drinking of impure water sometimes plays tricks with the mind !!

[Martin-Reza]

You talk about TM like they were Maldedives' U12 women's team. And even they would play better in a real system than in one made up by Dr. Doom.

And you are too much into black-or-white thinking here. It's not about working or not working, it's about how good or how bad it works.

You argue something is not working, so it doesn't matter what we do. That is not a valid approach. We could be much worse in any department, and your tactical proposals would assure that.

Those templates have been created by experts over years. You are coming with general statements to counter that. How is a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 a fork and Iran's football a soup?

This is nonsense. Who is supposed to invent a "spoon" then? You? Who did so in the past? Who was the last one to invent a "spoon" outside the "template forks"? Give examples. You are talking and talking and are losing touch with the real world completely.

[Doctor DOOM]

But the duties are assigned by the formation. That is why a proper formation is the basic.

Why do you keep resisting? Why don't you simply chose an existing respected formation?

I know why, baby wants his 2 strikers, COM, 2 side midfielders and a fourback. And since that altogether at once doesn't exist in today's compact football systems, it's better to simply forget about reality and create a utopia in which we can have all that.

Unfortunately this is only working inside your head and not outside of it. Once you accept the realities, you will see why systems like the 4-2-3-1 are liked so much by coaches.

hahaha
LOL.
actually this looks like YOU want someone to commit to one of ur templates.

I'm saying there IS NO template if the player doesnt do or isnt capable of doing his job.

for example, all our single strikers have been incapable of delivering the duties of your single-forward templates.
simple as that.

now if you go on trying to eat ur soup with a fork, then go ahead.
but dont ask ME to pick up a fork to have my soup, buddy.

[persianallstars]

hahahaha
clear example of not reading anyone's posts but commenting on it !!!
when did I say "dont worry we have rahmati"?
if you ever bothered to read you'd know I'm actually saying "plz DO worry that it takes rahmati to save us from 3-4 goals in each game"
so until you read my posts, I'm afraid I'll have to ignore urs.

interesting you don't answer my question about your genius mobali and madanchi.....

[persianallstars]

azizam where did you get your knowledge from?

are!!!! Rahmati can also play striker, it's not his usual position but who cares? Iran is different, everything is possible, we can abandon every single tactical issue....

[Doctor DOOM]

HAJAGHA, first you say, don't worry we have rahmati, he can blow every single attack (which is absolutely BS because without an intensive cooperation between midfield and specially centre defence, teamet miguse be aab)!!!

hahahaha
clear example of not reading anyone's posts but commenting on it !!!
when did I say "dont worry we have rahmati"?
if you ever bothered to read you'd know I'm actually saying "plz DO worry that it takes rahmati to save us from 3-4 goals in each game"

so until you read my posts, I'm afraid I'll have to ignore urs.

[Martin-Reza]

na agha jan, "formations" do not result in goals conceded or scored.
PLAYERS DOING OR NOT DOING THE DUTIES result in them.

But the duties are assigned by the formation. That is why a proper formation is the basic.

Why do you keep resisting? Why don't you simply chose an existing respected formation?

I know why, baby wants his 2 strikers, COM, 2 side midfielders and a fourback. And since that altogether at once doesn't exist in today's compact football systems, it's better to simply forget about reality and create a utopia in which we can have all that.

Unfortunately this is only working inside your head and not outside of it. Once you accept the realities, you will see why systems like the 4-2-3-1 are liked so much by coaches.

[persianallstars]

but if the PLAYER doesnt do his duties correctly or isnt capable of delivering those duties, then your uber-formation isnt worth the toilet paper u wipe ur butt with.

you made a good point! so mobali also isnt worth the toilet paper because player like him destroy every single formation.

[Doctor DOOM]

na agha jan, "formations" do not result in goals conceded or scored.
PLAYERS DOING OR NOT DOING THE DUTIES result in them.

I think now I know why you persist on your words and cant see what I'm talking about.

you are too much about a "template" and cant accept anything but what's written in the manual !!!
get ur head OUT of the mag or book and OBSERVE our players. ( how many times have I said this very sentence today? 6 times? )

for the 13628987648743th time, you can have the greatest and most modern and efficient "formation" in the world.
but if the PLAYER doesnt do his duties correctly or isnt capable of delivering those duties, then your uber-formation isnt worth the toilet paper u wipe ur butt with.



to make it easy on all of us I'll ask this Q:
in ur well-informed and well-read & uptodate-with-latest-formations opinion, have TM strikers been successful in TM GAMES?
if yes, then I wont even go ahead and stop right here.

if no, then due to what factors ?
ONLY lack of quality and nothing more?

[persianallstars]

I really try hard to agree on your opinion but I hardly believe a KAR-SHENASwould simply refuse to adapt a suitable formation to iranian soccer.

HAJAGHA, first you say, don't worry we have rahmati, he can blow every single attack (which is absolutely BS because without an intensive cooperation between midfield and specially centre defence, teamet miguse be aab)!!!

then you have mobali and madanchi! the second one has no brain and is running, the first has no brain and can't run! What sense does it make to have the best possible formation available for my team with players like them????

Nevertheless our guys are slow and they have a lack of fighting spirit, specially in the midfield! It is much better if our midfielders come closer to each other rather than playing as a desperate winger. Unfortunately TM is not able to play fast and attractive soccer. Littlebit dribble here and there is too much for them.