Ghalenoi's tactical suicide

[BehzadB]

well, that's what happens when we try to judge a coaches decision with regards to substitutions.. If they win, it's a good decision, if they lose it's a bad decision.

It is not the specific sub that was important, I think Massoud has a point in that, a team that is up 1 doesn't need to defend it so aggressively that they forget to play their normal game.. and in that, GN made a mistake..

but GN made a huge mistake in the way he reacted to Koushki ... that was very unprofessional.

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64800

[maij]

well, that's what happens when we try to judge a coaches decision with regards to substitutions.. If they win, it's a good decision, if they lose it's a bad decision.

It is not the specific sub that was important, I think Massoud has a point in that, a team that is up 1 doesn't need to defend it so aggressively that they forget to play their normal game.. and in that, GN made a mistake..

but GN made a huge mistake in the way he reacted to Koushki ... that was very unprofessional.
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...ad.php?t=64800

I don't know about Ghalenoei making a tactical mistake , although I agree that his fracas with Koushki was unnecessary and highly unprofessional.


People need to understand that coaches HAVE to make decisions at crucial times. Those crucial times are decided by themselves and are not set by any means of standard or text book.

He opted to defend and rely on counter attacks. Esteghlal could have very well have been leading 2-0 and further inviting Perspolis to attack in force leaving gaps that could have really punished PP further.

I really think that PP defense is vulnerable and any team with a little focus can score against them ( Stats shows that only Pegah and Saipa failed to score against them) Individually PP has good defenders , but as a group they lack cohesion , pace and covering skills. Not very dissimllar to Team Melli defense line, in fact. So , why not depend on your pacey players such as Borhani to crack that defense ?

I am not convinced GN made a mistake , he rather gambled the same way that Ghotbi did when brining in offesnsive players on the expense of his defense.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Kooshki came in to shut down Karimi and he almost did except one scene that Karimi scored. Watch agian and see how ***hki run with Karimi all the time.
The good news is "Karimi is back to action".

why didnt koushki come earlier or later then?? why only in the 60th minute which cost us a hardworking player who tackles and helps the midfield a lot while at the same time, has necessary speed and stamina to participate in offense and make sure the perspolis defenders and defensive midfielders dont get close to esteghlals goal??? isnt that an invitation to more waves of attack and more offensive participation by perspolis players for half an hour for a single goal lead???

[maij]

why didnt koushki come earlier or later then?? why only in the 60th minute which cost us a hardworking player who tackles and helps the midfield a lot while at the same time, has necessary speed and stamina to participate in offense and make sure the perspolis defenders and defensive midfielders dont get close to esteghlals goal??? isnt that an invitation to more waves of attack and more offensive participation by perspolis players for half an hour for a single goal lead???

Good question , yashar Jan...

The answer is simple. GN needed more defensive team and for him the time was right to press the one goal advantage , instead of venturing into PP half and going for the kill.

BTW: many teams play such tactics (inviting the opposition to attack) to leave gaps in the defense of the opposition. But like Doc mentioned , you need the right players to utilize the situation (counter attack) and SS had this in Borhani and Akbarpour , supported by the midfield that can really slice the PP defense line with their long passes.

[yashar_fasihnia]

merci majid jan, thats exactly my point, i think it was too soon for ghalenoi to use this tactic. this tactic is used by all teams, but i have yet to see any team big team using this tactic from the 60th minute.
its understandable if smaller teams do this against bigger teams, but its not expected of esteghlal to do this, atleast, not from me.

we scored in the 47th minute.
from 47th min till the 60th min when akbarpour was still in the game, perspolis was playing the same as before, not very dangerous. akbarpous pressence in the field avoided perspolis defenders and DMs to get too close to esteghlals goal.

by doing wat ghalenoi did, he basically allowed perspolis defenders also to participate in attack for 30 whole minutes! that in my opinion was wrong and wat masoud calls "suicide".

[zzgloo]

As far as a mistake by a coach.....Ghotbi made more of a mistake by attacking all out with 10 players........This is not how a good team plays.it is a major desparate act, and one easy counter attack goal would have kill them.....The decision to start attacking with 10 that early was very BAD COACHING.....if it was 10 minutes to last ,may be acceotable, but not from minute 65.............................
This was far bigger a mistake than what Ghalemoee did ,which had to react to total press of PP !....yet, he must have had better counter attacking plans, up in his sleeves!!

[Ali Chicago]

Been busy laterly and couldnt' quite follow the football and PFDC. But all in all I am very disappointed with GN's coaching decisions in Rah Ahan and now
PP game. SS plays a sort of 3-6-1 that shackles SS's offense. He constantly changes the starting line up. Shakoori didn't play in several games and all of a sudden in the derbi he plays and Montalzari has to play last defende. Playing Baykzadeh when he didn't hav a good day (acutally he sucked in the Rah Ahan games and GN kept him in the field the whole damn game). Subs don't seem to address the realtime game reading.

Worst than that, he opnely criticizeds Kousghki and supposedly kicked out Mehrdad Pooladi from the team after the game. Koushki reacted and the whole scene became ugly. Even before the game last Wed, there was fight between fans and players and all in all shows GN is loosing the helm.

GN's performance so far in SS has been very poor.

[kaz]

I think I am a mixture of both the arguments being presented here. I don't think GN went for suicide and that it was calculated that his team would pull back once they scored. Because up until that goal Esteghlal were a match, if not better than Perspolis. Until half-time the possession was 52-48 to PP - very close. Then we scored and we almost instantaneously pulled back.

Here is where I disagree with GN. Pulling back may have been a calculated plan, but IMO it was too early and 30+ minutes of PP bombarding our defenders was bound to cause a mistake.

That's not to say that Ghotbi didn't take a risk as well, and it could have been even worse if Borhani had his scoring boots on.

[kaz]

GN's performance so far in SS has been very poor.

I disagree, in the last few games we are seeing more and more improvement. Of course, this sample is small and we will know more once we see more but to call it poor IMO is taking it to an extreme. Lest we not forget what state the team was in when GN took over. A few weeks ago I would have thought we were going to get murdered in the derby. We ended up with a draw and until GN's pull-back plans we were looking very good.

[Ali Chicago]

I disagree, in the last few games we are seeing more and more improvement. Of course, this sample is small and we will know more once we see more but to call it poor IMO is taking it to an extreme. Lest we not forget what state the team was in when GN took over. A few weeks ago I would have thought we were going to get murdered in the derby. We ended up with a draw and until GN's pull-back plans we were looking very good.

I am not sure if you are aware of the issues during the SS practices last Wedensday and the events after the game in the dresssing room. Are you? Besides that, GN game reading and setup has been poor IMO. Besides the 6-0 win over SS Ahwaz which so far one can consider a fluke even the game against Rah Ahan we were very lucky to come up with a win. PP game to be honest, I was really dissapointed to watch as a blue fan. Even in the infamous 6-0 loss to PP in 1973, blue team wasn't as weak and defensive as last Friday game. I don't know you know or not, the game was 4-0 and PP score two goals on 89 and 90th minutes when SS was attacking still (many pp fans didn't see the goals by Behzadi and Kalani I think).
Choosing a 3-6-1 tactic, capatulating to Jabari's shennigan in the Rah Ahan game and letting him play, opnely attacking Koushki in the dressing room after a game like that, constantly changing the defense line up and SS line up in general, not using aerial attack when SS has two or three crossing players (Haydari, Akbari, Manyee). Any of these points can be elaborated quite a bit if you want and I hope you don't use the same argument that Daie fans use to justify his shortcomings (System is bad, so whatever Daie does is ok since system is bad. Regardless of hwo system is, GN's behavior and decisions are being made by no one but him. He is playing stars. He did the same thign in AFC and didn't have the guts to bench a whole bunch of so called stars in the teame Melli. In ss I am refering to Kazemi, Jabbari (in certian cases he can be very useful, but in certian cases no). Even when Jabbari didn't show up for three practices he still played him in the Rah Ahan game. To me that was the starw that broke the camel's back. Kazemi isn't in form and hasn't been for a long time, yet he plays.
Another thing is bringing Fekri to the coachign staff. I love SS former players and all, but what can addition of Fekri to the coaching staff has achieved? What can potentially acheive. When I went to Turkey, I watched two SS practices and watched both Marfavi and Fekri during the practices. Didn't see much contribution from any of these two. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they don't have anything to contriubte, I don't know that and can't make that claim by watching two practice sessions. The criticisem is to Mr. GN that if he has these two guys there, he must have something for them to do or get rid of them. All in all I disappointed with GN's performance so far.

[Ali Chicago]

I disagree, in the last few games we are seeing more and more improvement. Of course, this sample is small and we will know more once we see more but to call it poor IMO is taking it to an extreme. Lest we not forget what state the team was in when GN took over. A few weeks ago I would have thought we were going to get murdered in the derby. We ended up with a draw and until GN's pull-back plans we were looking very good.

I am not sure if you are aware of the issues during the SS practices last Wedensday and the events after the game in the dresssing room. Are you? Besides that, GN game reading and setup has been poor IMO. Besides the 6-0 win over SS Ahwaz which so far one can consider a fluke even the game against Rah Ahan we were very lucky to come up with a win. PP game to be honest, I was really dissapointed to watch as a blue fan. Even in the infamous 6-0 loss to PP in 1973, blue team wasn't as weak and defensive as last Friday game. I don't know you know or not, the game was 4-0 and PP score two goals on 89 and 90th minutes when SS was attacking still (many pp fans didn't see the goals by Behzadi and Kalani I think).
Choosing a 3-6-1 tactic, capatulating to Jabari's shennigan in the Rah Ahan game and letting him play, opnely attacking Koushki in the dressing room after a game like that, constantly changing the defense line up and SS line up in general, not using aerial attack when SS has two or three crossing players (Haydari, Akbari, Manyee). Any of these points can be elaborated quite a bit if you want and I hope you don't use the same argument that Daie fans use to justify his shortcomings (System is bad, so whatever Daie does is ok since system is bad. Regardless of hwo system is, GN's behavior and decisions are being made by no one but him. He is playing stars. He did the same thign in AFC and didn't have the guts to bench a whole bunch of so called stars in the teame Melli. In ss I am refering to Kazemi, Jabbari (in certian cases he can be very useful, but in certian cases no). Even when Jabbari didn't show up for three practices he still played him in the Rah Ahan game. To me that was the starw that broke the camel's back. Kazemi isn't in form and hasn't been for a long time, yet he plays.
Another thing is bringing Fekri to the coachign staff. I love SS former players and all, but what can addition of Fekri to the coaching staff has achieved? What can potentially acheive. When I went to Turkey, I watched two SS practices and watched both Marfavi and Fekri during the practices. Didn't see much contribution from any of these two. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they don't have anything to contriubte, I don't know that and can't make that claim by watching two practice sessions. The criticisem is to Mr. GN that if he has these two guys there, he must have something for them to do or get rid of them. All in all I disappointed with GN's performance so far.

SS is a deep team. Whole bunch of youth are collecting dust on the bench or not even making the 18 player list. Ahmad Khazaviri, Milad Noori, Pooladi, need to be developed. GN unlike when he started in the SS and didnt' renew a bunch of older stars like Bakhtiarizadeh, even Samereh and many others and brought Talebloo, Sadeghi, Ghorbani, Mojtaba Ensafi, Yavarzadeh, is relying more and more on the known names (Kazemi, Jabbari, etc.).

Sad thing is in the past SS has paid dearly for all of this. Jabbari, Ando, Khosro Haydari, shays Rezai at one time and another played for SS youth program. But they didn't get appreciated and went or loaned to other teams. Later on SS played through its nose for getting them back. This is a wrong approach by GN to not trusting the youth.

After posting this half an hour ago, I noticed SS beat Fajr and sounds like with a very good results (don't know exactly what, since I want to watch the game), so this data point goes against my argument, I realize that. But still I think there are many valid criticizems of GN's coaching perofrmace.

[kaz]

To be frank, GN's attitude surrounding the PP game was poor. Not only because of his tactics but because of his behaviour.

However, besides that, he has been pretty good. The team looks like they will score 3-4 games against anyone. And, in truthfulness, probably should have had more goals against Perspolis as well.

We may have different ways we determine what "poor" is but for me we are certainly not poor. Poor is anything from about 10th or below, right now we are 3 points away from 2nd. To be honest, a couple weeks ago I thought GN was pretty stupid to promise the title. Now I see it is a very achievable thing with this group.

As for using youth...yes, you use youth, but I don't think you should use youth simply for it's sake. Right now the last crop of youth he brought to the team are in their prime. Why replace youth you brought in, when they are in their prime, to youth you will have to develop all over again? Furthermore, who said some of those players are worthy of playing? For me, I am glad someone like Pooladi is not near the team.

[perspolees]

game plan by the two coaches were obvious
ss in there to defend on his goal line and get counter attacks thru with the pacier forwards thru our mistakeful defensive line and game plan..

we were out there to win and kick some major arse
and no matter how great of a defensive game and plan and players you have when you attack you are open and vulnerable, and thats true with the greatest footballing nations out there
if it were a perfect world like that then holland of 74 and 78 would have won it all or brasil of 82 would have beaten Italy and Paolo rossi and many more ...

simple as that ss came to defend and counter attack as GN said
he then wanted to keep the score and nothin wrong with that

qotbi went all out to get them, nothin wrong with that

[zzgloo]

In general, among all Top coaches working in Iran......Ghotbi,yavari,mazloomi,karimi,Dr.Z,Ghale noee(Notice I did not mention Daei )......
Time and time again, Ghalenoee is showing to be the smartest of the bunch!!

[perspolees]

lol! for GN being the smartest of them all....rite!!
we saw all of his plans with tm and with esteghlal

what has he achieved to deserve that superiority!?