Two strategic mistakes by Daei in Saudi’s game

[Ali Chicago]

Well , what can I say to this Ali Agha... You missed it !!! And why a tackle needs to be hard to be called a tackle ?

You can tell me anything Agha Majid. In this era with Viagra and Cialius it doesn't matter if it is soft or hard anymore!!!! Soft can be easily changed to hard!!!

Point was I have never seen Zandi tackles. This doesn't mean he hasnt' in his life or TM. I didn't see it.

A more general statement is he isnt' a defensive minded player. Forget about Zandi for example, compare Sadeghi and Madanchi. Sadeghi is much much better defensive minded player. When he is on defensive duty, he just doesn't merely follows and shadows the player (What Madanchi does). He poks with his toe, tries to tackle, put his body right on the guy (body contact) Madanchi doesn't do any of that but at least he shadows the guy. Zandi doesn't do any of these. At times he stands and watch (like the goal scene).

Agha Majid, ask around, I am not too proud or stuborn to say my way or highway and stuck in my position. The image you have from me in your mind (based on your post), a sworn enemy of Mr. Daie or player X or Y, is far from who I am. If I say Zandi doesn't participate in defense, it doesn't mean he is worthless or whatever, it means our coaching staff needs to identify this aspect of him game and find a remedy (maybe use him in a different position or sub him and bring him during the time our team needs to attack.

[maij]

Thanks Majid jan for the input.

1, I didn't bring this because of the goal. and I assume you wouldn't call it "errors" if we were punished more than once which was quite possible.


2, I do call it strategic, because it will be the same result if we put the same situation again and either of them are game-changing-mistake.

That is quite true...if there were series of errors/shortcomings/failures leading to more than one goal or threats , then YES , this will be a strategical mistake. But one combination of errors that lead to a solitary goal is a bit harsh to refer to it as a strategical error.

Let me stress , Reza Jan , that the fact that Hosseini lost the forward Al Harthy (or vice versa) , was the last mistake that lead to the goal and some would call it the main mistake.

3, You may compare Zandi with a player like Minavand to see how much Zandi missing in defensive duties. I don't tend to start a fight over Zandi/Zare. I just wouldn't make the same mistake as it is obvious we are missing defensive duties in this area.

The point is that we do not have Minavand now.

4, Gholamnejad and we were very lucky to gain the experience without the punishment. Such a scenario was like pushing a person into ocean to let him learn swimming.

I can hardly call facing Saudi Arabia an ocean for the likes of Gholamnejad.

Sometime we tend to pay too much respect to the imaginary power of the opposition and by the fact that we watch our own teams matches so much, we ignore their deeds and value and focus on the shortcomings.

I think Gholamnejad has a good potential , perhaps a great one. There is no set rules to say when and where should he be christened into the international arena. Kaebi was 18 when he represented Iran.

Well, this is my opinion at the end of the day and I am only responsible to my beer to not getting too hot though.

Cheers,

Nooshi Joonet ..... Guess it is Coors light

[Martin-Reza]

I don't agree with that. We do have a good number of defensive mid players in our football. One can be Sadeghi and Rahmati on the bench, Kazemian and Noori in the league, Karimi in future hopefully.

Daei changed the tactic not because didn't have any alternative for Zandi. He changed it becasue he saw KSA is out of breath and he needed fresh fast players, he put whatever he had in this department, by bringing two fast players.

One more thing, About Kia didn't gain his experience watching the games, Kia didn't start his game playing against Australia or USA to gain the experience either. I refer you to my answer to agha Maijd (ocean and swimming).

Cheers,

Indeed those players are options, but ideal in that position of course would be a leftfooter, and apart from Zandi we have no leftfooted CM.

[Hajagha]

...
B) why khatibi ? when we had madanchi, jabbari, ... on the bench.

to ro jan dost-e dokhtar ma-habl-e akharet, kamtar benevis bezar man post-hato bekhonam. damet garm.

Why Khatibi? I refer you to my answer to Martin about changing the tactic.

Cheers

[Hajagha]

1. I actually must say the left position in the diamond is the one with least alternatives, the moment Zandi went off, the tactical system was changed

I don't agree with that. We do have a good number of defensive mid players in our football. One can be Sadeghi and Rahmati on the bench, Kazemian and Noori in the league, Karimi in future hopefully.

Daei changed the tactic not because didn't have any alternative for Zandi. He changed it becasue he saw KSA is out of breath and he needed fresh fast players, he put whatever he had in this department, by bringing two fast players.

One more thing, About Kia didn't gain his experience watching the games, Kia didn't start his game playing against Australia or USA to gain the experience either. I refer you to my answer to agha Maijd (ocean and swimming).

Cheers,

[Hajagha]

... to hear how Hajj agha consider these stratgic. For example, our team couldn't maitain ball possesion due to the high pressure pressing KSA players ....

This is not Daei's mistake. No coach can fix this in a short period of time as a matter of fact. This is our football level and we got the best we had. Saying that, we are experiencing one of the weakest and poorest talent era of Team Melli in years.... and this is not any body's fault rather.

Cheers,

[Hajagha]

It was quite evident that the goal was a combination of errors involving 3 players , ...

Thanks Majid jan for the input.

1, I didn't bring this because of the goal. and I assume you wouldn't call it "errors" if we were punished more than once which was quite possible.

2, I do call it strategic, because it will be the same result if we put the same situation again and either of them are game-changing-mistake.

3, You may compare Zandi with a player like Minavand to see how much Zandi missing in defensive duties. I don't tend to start a fight over Zandi/Zare. I just wouldn't make the same mistake as it is obvious we are missing defensive duties in this area.

4, Gholamnejad and we were very lucky to gain the experience without the punishment. Such a scenario was like pushing a person into ocean to let him learn swimming.

Well, this is my opinion at the end of the day and I am only responsible to my beer to not getting too hot though.

Cheers,

[maij]

Zandi tackling? Guess I must have missed it. Even when he played LB in the AFC, I dont' recall seeing him tackles hard. Defense and Zandi are just two things that can't fit together. Even you look at his body language and demeaner and you see he isn't a hard nose tackler.

Well , what can I say to this Ali Agha... You missed it !!! And why a tackle needs to be hard to be called a tackle ?

[Martin-Reza]

1. I actually must say the left position in the diamond is the one with least alternatives, the moment Zandi went off, the tactical system was changed

2. You have a point, but in the end only such games can give this guy valuable experience and also show if he can withstand huge pressure. I think he showed he can and he has learned a lot. Kia also didn't gain experience by watching others playing tought games from the bench.

[Masoud_A]

Masoud e aziz......
what is it exactly you are saying ?....specialy to the articles' conclusion with the very last sentence !!
درست است كه از نظر امتیازی ایران و عربستان با هم به تساوی رسیدند، اما اگر بخواهیم درباره نحوه بازی دو تیم قضاوتی عادلانه داشته باشیم سطح بازی عربستان آنقدر
You are saying, the two teams ,aside from the result, presented equal class of football ?...

No, I said two strong teams met each other, I just expressed my disagreements with the particular parts of the Article as you can see in my post, the ones I cited were in agreement with my opinion.

[Ali Chicago]

...
Zandi is a very good player with many distinguishing attributes, He is a player that uses his brain , has a pretty good left foot and his tackling and positioning is of a high standard. He does seem to fall short on physical endurance though.

.

Zandi tackling? Guess I must have missed it. Even when he played LB in the AFC, I dont' recall seeing him tackles hard. Defense and Zandi are just two things that can't fit together. Even you look at his body language and demeaner and you see he isn't a hard nose tackler.

I also would like to hear how Hajj agha consider these stratgic. For example, our team couldn't maitain ball possesion due to the high pressure pressing KSA players were doing or our midfielders didnt' play without the ball, which I beleive were the root cause of Iran being under the pressuer so much. In a way these were the cause whereas Zare/ Zandi pair being under the pressure were in a way effect of this (quick loss of possesion by our team).

[zzgloo]

Now this is a little bit biensafi, IF saudi strikers were more accurate? Well how about saying IF Shojaei dlivered the one on one? Or Khatibi scoring the sitter? In a football match which is being played by two strong teams for sure there will be opportunities used and scored and opportunities lost and wasted so the writer doesnt have a case here.

Iran got lucky in the second half because Saudis retreated and their bodies got out of form?
One may think Saudis were playing 11 Halabis, and Halabis got lucky cause suddenly Saudis retreated and their bodies went out of form!
Saudis retreated because we started pressuring them, something we didnt do good in the first half, if we didnt put pressure on them they would dominate the game like the first half.

I remember the same critics, criticising our TM in the past because TM lacked physical fitness, now tha our boys can run, pressure and dominate their opponents in the pitch, they say we got lucky because Saudis bodies got tired and got out of form

Masoud e aziz......
what is it exactly you are saying ?....specialy to the articles' conclusion with the very last sentence !!
درست است كه از نظر امتیازی ایران و عربستان با هم به تساوی رسیدند، اما اگر بخواهیم درباره نحوه بازی دو تیم قضاوتی عادلانه داشته باشیم سطح بازی عربستان آنقدر
You are saying, the two teams ,aside from the result, presented equal class of football ?...

[Masoud_A]

ارتباط با ما آرشیو خانه نسخه Pdf ورزش - عربستان به ایران درس فوتبال داد مهدی زعیم*زاده:به نظر می*رسد گل جواد نكونام و فرار از شكست در ریاض باعث شده تا خیلی*ها فراموش كنند ایران در نیمه اول بازی مقابل عربستان چه نمایش پراشكال و ناامیدكننده*ای ارائه كرد. باید پذیرفت در مصاف دو تیم مدعی قاره آسیا، عربستان به مراتب بهتر بازی كرد و اگر قرار بود انصاف در ریاض رعایت شود هر سه امتیاز بازی به میزبان می*رسید. بی*دقتی مهاجمان عربستان و داور مسابقه موجب شد تا این تیم مزد بازی خوب و باكیفیت خود را به*طور كامل نگیرد وگرنه آنها نیمه اول را با بیش از یك گل به پایان می*بردند، اما ایران در روزی كه خوش*شانس بود تنها یك گل دریافت كرد تا در نیمه دوم به لطف عقب*نشینی و افت عربستان با فرصت*شناسی مناسب نكونام از شكست فرار كند و با یك امتیاز به خانه بازگردد. ورای این نتیجه مطلوب اگر یك*بار دیگر بازی شنبه*شب آنالیز شود بعید است كسی به ایران نمره قبولی بدهد. بازیكنان عربستان در اكثر دقایق بازی به ویژه در نیمه اول به نحوی بازی كردند كه ما همیشه آرزو می*كنیم تیم*ملی كشورمان این*گونه بازی كند. بازی تك*ضرب و پاسكاری*های دقیق روی زمین آنها تحسین*برانگیز بود و آنها به لطف همین بازی خوب شان چهار، پنج موقعیت مسلم گل پیدا كردند و حتی در نیمه دوم هم یكی، دوبار به*طور جدی دروازه ایران را تهدید كردند، اما در آن*سو موقعیت*های خطرناك ایران كه بسیار كمتر از میزبان بود همگی از روی ضربات آزاد و دریبل*های شجاعی حاصل شد. آیا علی دایی می*خواهد چشمش را به این حقایق ببندد! آیا او ندید كه عربستان فوتبال بسیار بهتری از ایران به نمایش گذاشت، آیا متوجه ضعف مدافعان ایران شد و اینكه مهاجمان میزبان نزدیك به 10بار به راحتی قلب دفاع ایران را شكافتند و صاحب موقعیت گل شدند. درست است كه از نظر امتیازی ایران و عربستان با هم به تساوی رسیدند، اما اگر بخواهیم درباره نحوه بازی دو تیم قضاوتی عادلانه داشته باشیم سطح بازی عربستان آنقدر

Now this is a little bit biensafi, IF saudi strikers were more accurate? Well how about saying IF Shojaei dlivered the one on one? Or Khatibi scoring the sitter? In a football match which is being played by two strong teams for sure there will be opportunities used and scored and opportunities lost and wasted so the writer doesnt have a case here.

Iran got lucky in the second half because Saudis retreated and their bodies got out of form?
One may think Saudis were playing 11 Halabis, and Halabis got lucky cause suddenly Saudis retreated and their bodies went out of form!
Saudis retreated because we started pressuring them, something we didnt do good in the first half, if we didnt put pressure on them they would dominate the game like the first half.

I remember the same critics, criticising our TM in the past because TM lacked physical fitness, now tha our boys can run, pressure and dominate their opponents in the pitch, they say we got lucky because Saudis bodies got tired and got out of form

[Masoud_A]

1, Having two unspecialized players, Zandi and Zare, in the left side cost us a goal and could have hurt us even more. Zandi is not disciplined defensive player. Also, none of them are aggressive defenders who do tackle in their regular basis.

I completely agree on this issue.

2, Playing a young, inexperienced and overwhelmed defender like Gholamnejad in his first international game in your toughest away game while you have a better options like Kia is not risk, it’s mistake.

Haji jan this is where I beg to differ, the first 30mins of the first half most of our players even experienced players like Javad Nekounam were affected by the atmosphere of the game and stadium, but even on that times Gholamnejad was playing adequately and he kept playing better and better untill the end of the game.

After all IMHO Kaebi will have tough time to get in the line-up competing with Gholamnejad.

[maij]

After the event , we can all ( and of course the coach) find where the weakness is. I don't think that those points mentioned could be be referred to as strategical mistakes.

It was quite evident that the goal was a combination of errors involving 3 players , Zandi , Zare and Hosseini. In my opinion , Zare due to his slow reaction and immobility was the biggest culprit , but then again in every match we must expect errors from individual players and that is why it is a TEAM that is playing , other players should cover individual mistakes , which in this case they failed to do.

Zandi is a very good player with many distinguishing attributes, He is a player that uses his brain , has a pretty good left foot and his tackling and positioning is of a high standard. He does seem to fall short on physical endurance though.

Zare is an error prone player and is quite vulnerable. He is far from being disastrous , though and in that same game he performed quite well before and after the goal. Let us not forget that the strongest Saudi side was on the right where Zaer and Zandi were involved.

Back to topic , I can not categorize this as strategical failure . but as Hajagha said , risk must be taken at some stage. Playing the likes of Gholamnejad is a risk , but then again , he passed it .