This is a Test for TM and Iranian Football

[Amirza]

maji Jaan -
I am not saying we must necessarily fire Branco - in this short time.
We do need to change our approach however. Let me mention some of the obvious approaches we must change.

1- Daei must start !! why is that ? because he wants to ? it seems like the whole Iran knows Daei does not belong to TM anymore - yet they have accepted it !!!

2- As of today we all know Branco is a Tarsoo coach - he shall go into everygame in hope of a 1-0 win - that vision must change.

3- As I understand - TM is planning 2 friendlies - that is ridiculous !! but even 2 games is too many if we do not use them to identify and test new alternatives. As far as I am concerned we have wasted the LG cup testing nothing new.

Having said all that - I believe we still have time to hire a better coach with balls.

[maij]

Maij jan aziz:


Are you sure that a top coach will not accept coaching Iran when we have qualified for the WC. I am not sure..!!!

If you force me to swear to GOD , then I certainly will not commit myslef

[maij]

[Amirza]

maij jaan -
everything you said is true -
but it sounds like you have given up - justifying your satisfaction with mediocracy and underachievements.

[maij]

maij jaan -
everything you said is true -
but it sounds like you have given up - justifying your satisfaction with mediocracy and underachievements.

Nah Khair , Azizam.....I certainly have not given up.

Sorry , I forgot to ask : Given up on what ????

If you mean given up on arguments about tactics and players , I will maintain my stand that I , like all of the other fans , have no business questioning a professional coach on why he is selecting this player or playing this tactics or that.......

What you call mediocracy and underachievements is nothing more than a figment of your imagination and personally I think it is as far as possible from facts.

There are a lot of people that make their own assumptions or personnel desires (dreams) and expect it to be a fact of life and demand that it is either their way or it is NO WAY !!!!

Some even think that Iran should at least be in the semi-final of the WC !!!
OK...That is fine...there is no harm in dreaming, I do that all the time ( ....... But in my case I dream of the a World Cup Final match between TM and Brazil...where Brazil leads 2-0 upto minute 80 , when suddenly Ali Karimi , Borhani and Nekounam score 3 consecutive goal and......)

BUT ask any of them , how you do you base your assumption of TM standards , you get answers varying from the mediocre to the absloutely comical!!

NO sir....football is a wee bit more complicated than thinking that a change in coaching will bring you miracles.....or thinking the selection of this particular player will be the solution of all our problems!!!

The best of teams sometimes get humilated or have a series of bad runs. England lost to Denmark by 4 goals and then to Northern Ireland 1-0 but then bounced backed to clinch qualification to the WC and beat mighty Argentina 3-2 in a thriller........


I STILL think that Branko Ivankovic is the best option for Team Melli for the World Cup. He is not perfect , he is error-prone like any one of us, but in my prespective he is STILL the best.

.....And if Team Melli does not acheive much..... I would not even loose one bit of my passion for this team.....

OH WELL........... I suppose different people have different reasons for supporting different teams......

*************************************************

I like to have fun like them>>>>>>>>

[Amirza]

Again - all you say is true - especialy the fact that no one wants to have their FUN disturbed - even if it's a short lived - seldom come around - type of fun - such as having our TM play in the WC. But I say again - it seems like you have given up on our football - you seem to be contempt with being in the last bracket - just happy to be there. That is fine and dandy - just don't call us Branko Bashers - or try to tell us there is nothing wrong - or Branco is the best coach.......

Just like you I love the fact that Iran is in the WC and look forward to them playing there - but let me remind you the 98 WC was much better than the 78 campaign - just because of that one 2-1 win !! And let me also remind you - the fun you may have experienced with our mediocracy - pales in a big way to the fun S.Korean and the Turkish fans experienced in 2002. That is the fun we are after - and we shall get there - by allowing ourselves to discuss Football, Football Organization, Tactics, techniques,........ after all - it's not nuclear physics !! and knowing the unfortunate fact that these days in Iran, we have the era of the incompetant pretenders being in charge !! just about all decesion makers "Train on the Job" - so why not creating a training atmosphere for IFF as well as are pedestrian sports jounalists ??

[ARYA]

I just have a simple question for you maij jan, if our TM had not reached the WC, would you still feel as strongly about Branko??

If you mean given up on arguments about tactics and players , I will maintain my stand that I , like all of the other fans , have no business questioning a professional coach on why he is selecting this player or playing this tactics or that......

Would you still feel as though you have no business questioning a professional coach?? Or do you have your limits too??

I think you'll agree that we all have our limits, therefore, I don't agree with your above statement, and I don't believe you mean to say that you have no right to question such things? Because we all have the god given right to question just about everything.

That said, I agree with you about the current state of affairs of our nation and the unlikelihood of a capable and respected coach volunteering for the job. I also agree that the IFF will not afford a high priced coach.

I like many others am not asking for Branko's replacement but am entitled to form an opinion based on my own observations, which by the way is not far from yours. You also agree that we have weaknesses within out line-up and/or formation, even Branko himself admits to the fact that he has observed weaknesses within our line-up, but what's become puzzling to me and many others is, why, if we have indeed observed these weaknesses for the past year, have we done nothing to improve in the same areas, and why we insist in allowing the same players in the same formation? Is it in hopes that they will eventually one day soon make a miraculous turnaround and suddenly overnight become the best player in the post?

I'd have to agree with some here that say Branko has not moved away from his original team members and players for the past well 3 to 4 years. This cannot be healthy for our team, nor is it healthy for IPL.

[Doctor DOOM]

daaaamn !
for once ( ) I'm lost for words.
both amireza jan and arya jan covered pretty much what I wanted to say !

I especially like the quote : "training on the job" by amireza.
very apt.


also the matter of one's "limits" brought up by arya.
another great point.


finally , I'd like to make something clear here.
maji jan, everyone appreciates your support for the team.
we all do so too.
I think the fact that inspite of some pretty disappointing games, we still get a lot of fans to come and talk about the team shows EVERYONE is as passionate and fanatical about Iran and TM as it could be.
in that, there shd be no doubt.

but some of us are unhappy with HOW this team is run.
and if we voice our concerns, it shd NEVER ... EVER be construed as undermining TM and Iran.
NEVER.

not that I think you dop so, but I have seen some friends twist things in that way that if anyone says above branko's eyes are eye-borws, it means they are degrading TM !!!
( no wonder many teenagers swicth their votes in all these polls !! )

we are all passionate about TM, but have our own ways of showing it.

and just as arya pointed out , we all have our limits.
while some of us are not as blessed as others with unlimited patience, some ARE, and they continue to seek anything positive in the matter ( not to mention it is becoming harder and harder by the day to find positive points nowadays !! ).

I ran out of patience a year back .
some ran out 6 months back.
some have given up now.
.... and rest assured, if things continue this way, more will do so,in the very near future.

it is just branko's ... ahem .... "luck" that they refused to accept any proposals for friendlies in Dec.
( hmm... I wonder why ? )
another showing like the last few, and the scrambled eggs we saw dished out on the pitch by our stars, and I think this present 52-54% support for branko's methods is going to shrink even more to 30's .

I'm just puzzled why we dont accept to have a game which can go a long way to help the team iron out some areas of trouble !
is there any ulterior motive to that ?

[VivaItalia]

I just have a simple question for you maij jan, if our TM had not reached the WC, would you still feel as strongly about Branko??

Would you still feel as though you have no business questioning a professional coach?? Or do you have your limits too??

.

Very funny question!
So you base your arguement and logic on "IF"s? Your question is out of place here since our team has reached the WC.

Let me ask you this question: If your father would beat and molest you when you were a child, would you still love him? Think about it! now hate your father and through him out or possibly kill him!!!

This is how your question sounds!
anyways...forget it.

[ARYA]

Very funny question!
So you base your arguement and logic on "IF"s? Your question is out of place here since our team has reached the WC.

Let me ask you this question: If your father would beat and molest you when you were a child, would you still love him? Think about it! now hate your father and through him out or possibly kill him!!!

This is how your question sounds!
anyways...forget it.

Viva, you and I have held mature conversations not long ago. I must say that I'm shocked by your pubescent reply. Were you not able to find a better way to bring your point across? Making such a vulgar and disrespectful remark makes you sound as though you were brought up on shabdol azim.

So you understand my meaning, since apparently you are unable to read between the lines, what I was trying to arrive at by asking maij such a question is that I highly doubt he would feel that he should not question a professional coach had TM not qualified for the WC. In his own words maij states that, as a fan he doesn't feel it is his place to question a professional coach, when we all know that is not how he truly feels, and as a fan he himself would have been the first to ask for Branko's resignation had Iran not qualified, and if that is not questioning a professional coach, than I don't know what is.

Hence "we all have our limits"

Perhaps, you didn't bother to read my whole post!!

[faraz]

Actually, Arya poses a great question - is there a limit where this non-stop support will fail to exist? If we argue that those who are displeased by Branko have invalid reasoning due to a lack of a coaching degree then can we, by the same token, argue that those who are pleased with Branko do not know what they're talking about because they too do not have a coaching degree? Based on the recent RESULTS and general PLAY from TM (let's get factual now), is it safe to say that Branko has hit some turbulence, out of which he does not seem able to progress?

Merely some questions from a fan to other fans, who feels like answering?

[VivaItalia]

Viva, you and I held mature conversations not long ago. I must say that I'm shocked by your example. Were you not able to find a better example to bring your point across? Making such a vulgar and disrespectful remark makes you sound as though you were brought up on shabdol azim.

So you understand my meaning, since you are apparently unable to read between the lines, what I was trying to arrive at by asking maij such a question was, that I highly doubt he would feel that he should not question a professional coach if TM hadn't qualified for the WC. In his own words, maij states that as a fan he doesn't feel it is his place to question a professional coach, when we all know that is not how he truly feels and as a fan, he himself would have been the first one to ask for his resignation, had Iran not qualified, and if that is not questioning a professional coach, than I don't know what is.

Hence "we all have our limits"

Perhaps, you didn't bother to read my whole post!!

Arya, (thanks for not saying "jan", some people try hard to pretend to be a nice person by saying "Felany Jan"! )
How did you know I am from Shabdol Azim?! damn! very good guess

Now lets go back to our old good days when we had civilized conversation.
your post had two parts; the first part is based on "IF"s which is highly invalid arguement since your hypothesis has not been fullfilled (TM not going to WC) therefore the question has only one answer :I'll tell you when TM gets eliminated next time! or if TM fails in the WC.

the second part, on the other hand, contains a valid point/question: can we question the coach? and my answer is YES. and should we question the coach? YES.
Hope it clears things.

you had a question about why Branko uses the same group of players over and over. to answer you from my own perspective, Italia, Brazil and France have been doing the same thing since the last domestic cup. there are only a few changes to their main squad since then due to injuries, old ages and ... some coaches (including Branko, I think) believe that National Team should act like a club. You select the best players and train them to coordinate. but sometimes you need to replace a few members of the club which we are in this proccess too. on the other hand some coaches don't think this way and invite players quick and strike off quick. so there are different types of mentality and we can't determine which one is better.

[ARYA]

Arya, (thanks for not saying "jan", some people try hard to pretend to be a nice person by saying "Felany Jan"! )
How did you know I am from Shabdol Azim?! damn! very good guess

Viva, in the Persian culture saying jan is a sign of respect, it's not a matter of being nice.

Now lets go back to our old good days when we had civilized conversation.

How was I uncivilized within my initial post, just curious?

your post had two parts; the first part is based on "IF"s which is highly invalid arguement since your hypothesis has not been fullfilled (TM not going to WC) therefore the question has only one answer :I'll tell you when TM gets eliminated next time! or if TM fails in the WC.

Wrong Viva, my post had but one question, therefore consists of one part. You only chose to conveniently see it in two parts. By the way you have answered my 1 question correctly within your following statement. And that is, we all do have out limits. Yours has simply not been reached as yet.

the second part, on the other hand, contains a valid point/question: can we question the coach? and my answer is YES. and should we question the coach? YES.
Hope it clears things.

you had a question about why Branko uses the same group of players over and over. to answer you from my own perspective, Italia, Brazil and France have been doing the same thing since the last domestic cup. there are only a few changes to their main squad since then due to injuries, old ages and ... some coaches (including Branko, I think) believe that National Team should act like a club. You select the best players and train them to coordinate. but sometimes you need to replace a few members of the club which we are in this proccess too. on the other hand some coaches don't think this way and invite players quick and strike off quick. so there are different types of mentality and we can't determine which one is better.

Do you know something we don't? Who are these players that we have or are in the process of replacing?? I haven't seen anybody be replaced. On the contrary, it seems to me that Branko has already picked his main squad and is now only looking for a couple of subs for here and there. Why else than would he start the main squad in every single game and play the new invitees in the last 15 minutes of each game, even in a friendly match?

And as for Italy, Brazil, France playing with the same squad, even if that were true, what does that have to do with TM. Perhaps they have found all the missing links for their WC squad, but the question is, have we?? I’ll even give you the answer, “NO WE HAVE NOT”

[Amirza]

VivaItalia Jaan with all due respect -
Maybe Maij is right - maybe comenting about our TM is not for every fan.
Fans like you who don't have enough to digest the points beeing made here - would obviously not have enough to raise any critic of value either.
We have written volumes about not having plans on the field - yet you are still looking for 3 new players ?!! Granted - finding a couple more Kia and Karimis will make us much better - but without pre-practiced offensive plays - we will not get much farther than where we are.

[VivaItalia]

VivaItalia Jaan with all due respect -
Maybe Maij is right - maybe comenting about our TM is not for every fan.
Fans like you who don't have enough to digest the points beeing made here - would obviously not have enough to raise any critic of value either.
We have written volumes about not having plans on the field - yet you are still looking for 3 new players ?!! Granted - finding a couple more Kia and Karimis will make us much better - but without pre-practiced offensive plays - we will not get much farther than where we are.

Amirza khan,

I held my respect for you for a long time although I disagree with you in many ocasions. I see that you are desparatly/unfairly/immaturely using words to belittle me. let's be it old man, if it makes you feel better.

After all, both of us are fans. only experts can say who is right. Until then...