Are we obsessed with the ability of a coach?

[RaginG Inferno]

Good post, but I must disagree on some points. Although I do agree that a coach can be limited by the atmosphere he works in, logically, this does not necessarily mean having a competent coach will not yield benefits.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

again... my point of view is written in my signature.... and thats the type of coach, I call a good coach...

[Hajagha]

3-The situation is beyond our hands, and lets take it easy.

You really think there is more option than above? Then your name must be either Kafashian, Aliabadi or Khamenei then.

[zzgloo]

This thread has touched ,the importance of coaching issue, from so many different angles......


.................................................. .................................................. ...

***Those who are against of its importance are in three groups***
.................................

1-The system needs a foundemental over-haul, and top to bottom change in all aspects, before we can talk about the coaching.

2-The coaching , by itself, will not change any thing, as it is a combination of many factors that should be corrected, and the Football is dynamic and should be dealt with from all its aspects including coaching.

3-The situation is beyond our hands, and lets take it easy.

.................................................. .................................................. ....

***And those who are for it are also in three groups***
..............................

1-An Ideal coaching could be something like " kamal ata turk ", and demand foundemental changes,and influence football in major way.

2-We should look at a coaching as a major attempt , to improve football,while other aspects can be worked on in parallel .

3-We can not do much about other aspects, lets focus on what we can ,and that is finding a good coach.

.................................................. .................................................. ...


You make the call !!

[maij]

I don't quite understand (maybe it is late hours for me) but you are saying that a coach with the class of Clemente will be demanding (and rightly so) , so , do you really believe he can work in such environment such as Iran and succeed in over-turning the whole culture ???


Wishful thinking.... I don't really think so , however , I would be on the top of the world if it actually happens........and I have no problem whatsoever to be proved wrong.

[gol_kuchik]

This will be my last contribution for a while. It is sad that I would go through a period of
depression at times such as WC or Asian cup. However, this set of emotions has
hit me this time around before we even go through one of our magical display of
incompetence both like at WC with half trained and ready players and at Asian cup, with
the dumbest coaching decision making. But I digress.

When I said a tier 1 class coach can bring all those adjectives to IFF (and not just
team melli), it was because a tier 1 class coach will need a professional environement
to operate in. They either wont take the job, OR they would make a set of requests.

With Clemente, he had already made a list of demands starting with stadium conditions.
A pro-coach, can make demands and follow up on those. If they are not provided, he
will make noise and if they dont comply he will quit. By the same token, through his
set plans, and demands he will set a standard, which unfortunately have not been set
by our local officials, they are simply incapable of thinking beyound their own interests or
lack in vision and understanding of the task they have been assigned.

A quality coach, will not let agents, or popular pressure change his plans. Look at
how easily Beckham was let go. Do you think even in England that type of decision
was possible with anything but a top notch coach? A top notch coach knows his
main alligence is to his work and the success of the task in hand, but as important he
enjoys AUTHROITY that only comes with a track record. Often time, these
folks are thinking of legacy they leave behind as much as potential financial gains.

With such attitude, you better believe a pro-coach can impact not just TM but the whole
way football is run, not by directly interfering but by impacting it through setting
great standards and by making demands. He would also tell whoever suggest he should
play player X because AliAbadi is his uncle, to shove it.
Let's look at Daie, whom we all admire as young player but frankly was a liability to TM the last 2
years of his presence in TM.

Only a world class coach, could have pulled him out or not let him even start because
the lower tier coach would not have the credential nor the authority. This automatically
brings discplene (because they know the coach means business and also the players will
respect him for what he stands for) to the team and by extension to IFF, which will have to abide by
coaches demands for --organizing friendlies--, planning for next level matches and not let everything
be an after though.

And that's why, if we want to be successful at least with TM we need to be obsessed
with the quality of individual at the helm.

Never send a small boy to do A big Man's job.

[maij]

What we do know, is that our biggest achievements have come as a result of
some quality in coaching: Latest example is Bonacic. But even Bonacic I will not
categorize as tier 1 World Class.

Fine example , but it does not answer the core question.

If you think by any chance that Sepahan success is purely due to Bonacic , then I disagree totally. Sepahan as an organization is a classic example of how proper resources , organization , financial strength and backing amongst many other things , can lead to success. Bonacic was perhaps the finishing touch and part of the whole chain , BUT not to be singled out as the outstanding factor of success. Like you said , he is not a tier 1 World Class coach either.

In essence , this is what I (at least me) is talking about. Football has never and will never depend on a single factor for success , as the subject matter , the coach.

So I am afraid we can all discuss and discuss how effective or ineffective a world
class coach would be, that simply means we dont appreciate and understand the
type of planning, organization, discipline and motivation a quality coach can bring to
IFF which clearly lacks in all these areas.

In the meantime you can enjoy your selection of Ghotbi/GN/Mayle Kodan or whoever
AliAbadi tries to assign to TM.

I don't think a World Class coach task is to bring Organization , discipline and motivation to IFF...this is the job of Kafashian , perhaps you meant to Team Melli, in which case I agree that it will have an effect.

But same skills can be brought to Team Melli by the likes of Ghotbi/GN/Mayle Kohan... these elements are not top level secrets that a few World Class coaches posses and none others can teach or learn.

When it comes to the pitch , It goes without saying that Team Melli coach shall not be involved with developing basics skills of players, there is simply no time for such skills to be learnt in a few days of TM camps. Most of skills , disciplines and tactics should be acquired at school , youth teams and clubs. A good Team Melli coach , regardless to his color or creed is , the one who can masterfully manipulate a small group of skillful players and prepares them tactically into a powerful team.

If the TM coach does not have the materials or ingredients , he will not produce a good team, rubbish in rubbish out.

It is only a personal observation , but maybe what Clemente saw against Syria made him re-think what he can do with a group of chaotic individuals who have little potential and a lots of hard work. Maybe he thought the task is truly beyond him and it is not worth it. World Class coaches are too demanding , and I hate to say that the facilities , organization and the structure of IFF and football in general is just not ready yet for such coaches.

All these are theories , of course. We might never get the chance to prove either parties right.

[gol_kuchik]

Are we obsessed with the ability of a coach?

To objectively for anyone to answer this, they should point to a period of time when we
DID have a quality coach (for TM), then point at the other times we didn't and show it makes
no difference, or not a huge difference.

What we do know, is that our biggest achievements have come as a result of
some quality in coaching: Latest example is Bonacic. But even Bonacic I will not
categorize as tier 1 World Class.

So I am afraid we can all discuss and discuss how effective or ineffective a world
class coach would be, that simply means we dont appreciate and understand the
type of planning, organization, discipline and motivation a quality coach can bring to
IFF which clearly lacks in all these areas.

In the meantime you can enjoy your selection of Ghotbi/GN/Mayle Kodan or whoever
AliAbadi tries to assign to TM.

[perspolees]

let me repeat what I have said for teh past 5 years on this board

in khar mire yeki dige miyad

and until we do not have the basics, a this or a that coach for tm is immaterial

it does matter at youth level but not tm

and tm be my witness under this or that coach we are teh same old crap !


most importantly:
Show me one example where currently a decent footballing country brought in a great coach before they had pitches that they could play football on or before they were able to put up a schedule!!! one example and then I would say OK we can follow suit but hey just to walk around and fart and say we are goingto be the first nation to make it with the coach factor is just o well typical iranina thing a big fart and no thoughtfullness...

[Hajagha]

It Is ?........
So what do you suggest to do, that is ,more important than, finding a good head coach ?.............
please , be specific , and realistic .

[zzgloo]

I didn't quite get what would be your argument here. I didn't mention to kiss a big goodbye to football because we have other problems.
I think with all due respect, your argument is irrelevant.
Cheers,

It Is ?........
So what do you suggest to do, that is ,more important than, finding a good head coach ?.............
please , be specific , and realistic .

[Hajagha]

reza jan, even those patients with stroke WILL GET a fresh pair of pants.
no one will say oh, he's got a major heart condition, so we dont need to attend to other lesser aspects of patient care.
we did have such a debate some time ago and I did say some of us think we shd not hold off everything else jt becoz we dont have the right foundation and lots of shortcomings.
we can and shd attack our needs on multiple levels, parallel to each other.
otherwise, if we are to wait for these bastards at IRI to attend and correct all our basic infrastructural needs, then we've got to have an immortal's life span!

While you change the pants, make sure you don't give a tump up to the patient relateves that he (Patient)
doing fine and will be fine by changing the wet pants though.

[Hajagha]

FIFA penalized IFF for one foundemental policy........
" Football must be independent "....................
true, culture influnces football,.....government influences football,.....economy influences football................., even religon influences football......etc,...................
But, FIFA says, it is an international language, and should be kept indepedent !!!!.........................WHY ?
Because, it believes, it has a stronger massage to the world unity than ,religon or poletic or economy does.......it unites people of the world.
Angola has problems, Ivory coact has problems, tunesia has problem......for God's sake Iraq has problems.........................Now, do you want to know about effect of Iraqi players bombed houses and murdered reletives ?..or do you want to know about thier spirit ,with the help of the Brazilian coach, who ,true as it may be,did not think Iraqies problems is an handicap for Iraqies aspirations ?......
the fact of the mater is, we in the football society are not in any position to change systems............, what foerign coaches of african teams did, is to minimize the importance of social problems,and maximize human equalities.
We remind ourseleves, that if we are not going to take a weapon, and fight against the governement...and if we are not going to advance a religon or cultural renusaunce........., we better stick to our football, and get all the help we can to do as good a job as those who have it the best . ....thats all we can do, and thats what FIFA suggests !
We need to do the best we can, despite of all other problems, and finding a good coach is a major, possible and realistic step in that direction.

I didn't quite get what would be your argument here. I didn't mention to kiss a big goodbye to football because we have other problems.

I think with all due respect, your argument is irrelevant.

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

reza jan, even those patients with stroke WILL GET a fresh pair of pants.
no one will say oh, he's got a major heart condition, so we dont need to attend to other lesser aspects of patient care.


we did have such a debate some time ago and I did say some of us think we shd not hold off everything else jt becoz we dont have the right foundation and lots of shortcomings.
we can and shd attack our needs on multiple levels, parallel to each other.

otherwise, if we are to wait for these bastards at IRI to attend and correct all our basic infrastructural needs, then we've got to have an immortal's life span!

[zzgloo]

FIFA penalized IFF for one foundemental policy........
" Football must be independent "....................
true, culture influnces football,.....government influences football,.....economy influences football................., even religon influences football......etc,...................
But, FIFA says, it is an international language, and should be kept indepedent !!!!.........................WHY ?
Because, it believes, it has a stronger massage to the world unity than ,religon or poletic or economy does.......it unites people of the world.
Angola has problems, Ivory coact has problems, tunesia has problem......for God's sake Iraq has problems.........................Now, do you want to know about effect of Iraqi players bombed houses and murdered reletives ?..or do you want to know about thier spirit ,with the help of the Brazilian coach, who ,true as it may be,did not think Iraqies problems is an handicap for Iraqies aspirations ?......
the fact of the mater is, we in the football society are not in any position to change systems............, what foerign coaches of african teams did, is to minimize the importance of social problems,and maximize human equalities.
We remind ourseleves, that if we are not going to take a weapon, and fight against the governement...and if we are not going to advance a religon or cultural renusaunce........., we better stick to our football, and get all the help we can to do as good a job as those who have it the best . ....thats all we can do, and thats what FIFA suggests !
We need to do the best we can, despite of all other problems, and finding a good coach is a major, possible and realistic step in that direction.