Are we obsessed with the ability of a coach?

[Hajagha]

but are you refuting the coach's immeasurable influence in football?

if you're not convinced by what bahram said about the inevitability of the coach being held responsible for success and more importantly, the failures of a team, then at least accept a coach HAS the power to effect major changes in teams like ours.

once again, nobody's saying that will rectify or solve the other problems and shortcomings. but it sure helps to have at least one facet of our football covered. better something than nothing.

[Hajagha]

Haji Jan..... Ein harfa ma salhat ke mizanim....For years I have said that people are over-estimating the power and effectiveness of a coach.

If it was a simple formula that the best coach in the World would bring accolades and championship for a club or a nation, countries such as Emirates or Saudi Arabia would have been World Champions.

[maij]

Haji Jan..... Ein harfa ma salhat ke mizanim....For years I have said that people are over-estimating the power and effectiveness of a coach.

If it was a simple formula that the best coach in the World would bring accolades and championship for a club or a nation, countries such as Emirates or Saudi Arabia would have been World Champions.

[Doctor DOOM]

but are you refuting the coach's immeasurable influence in football?

if you're not convinced by what bahram said about the inevitability of the coach being held responsible for success and more importantly, the failures of a team, then at least accept a coach HAS the power to effect major changes in teams like ours.

once again, nobody's saying that will rectify or solve the other problems and shortcomings. but it sure helps to have at least one facet of our football covered. better something than nothing.

[Hajagha]

I think this encapsulates the essence of this "obsession with coach" issue.
precisely.
whether it is fair or unfair, fans and ppl turn their focus towards the coach at any failure. no matter which country or how strong/weak they are.
so it is a major enough issue that merits some obsession and extra attention.

[Doctor DOOM]

I think this encapsulates the essence of this "obsession with coach" issue.

.......in the whole world, when a team is not doing well, all eyes is toward the coach.....

precisely.
whether it is fair or unfair, fans and ppl turn their focus towards the coach at any failure. no matter which country or how strong/weak they are.
so it is a major enough issue that merits some obsession and extra attention.

[zzgloo]

Ali e aziz...................
May be you are going about this kaz issue, the wrong way...............
Although, if I ever see PFDC ban you...............I will consider leaving the site as well, because, this site without quality members such as you is not worth being part of................But, before I do that, I would give PFDC chance to explain itself.Thier side, and thier policies, and thier back ground to the issue. ,also, these mods here are like us, they also make mistake....the point we should look at, is that they do not do it in a consistant manner.
.....................
As you said, back to the issue........
.....................
You ali, Payman jaan, and hajagha e aziz, make many valid points, and to clarify for payman : I think, we are talking about , what , and how best Iranian Football can improve......and wether, the importance of the Head coaching job is over blown .
We all know about, the system, the short comeings, bad inferstruture, bad manegement, the culture, etc, etc,etc........and we have often talked about all of them here......
We also know, we can not do much about the majority of important issues related to football improvement,yet, .............being 7 mounths, without the head coach, and the major fiasco about it , IFF selections, and finding the coach, etc,etc.....it is not a out of norm to talk about it, and as " martin-reza" said in another thread, This coaching issue, is getting more exciting than most football games we have seen recently !..may be talking about anything els at this moment would be out of place.
............................
16 team out of 32 teams in the WC, had foerign coaches...........in the whole world, when a team is not doing well, all eyes is toward the coach.....we all have lots of aspirations for TM, and we promised ourseleves to do much better when we were loseing to Purtugal in last WC..............
I do not see any " Obssesion haji jaan.............., we are doing what we can, through what is possible in the syber space !

[Doctor DOOM]

lol.
reza jan, take back your "hendooneh".
I'm just a simple minded fan, whose obsession may be, not with the coach, but with his TEAM MELLI, just like the rest of you.

to tell the truth, ( lloolll .... nazani-haaa ) I havent understood the thrust of this thread ( ) ......... really!
am just writing some crap, for the sake of writing !!


but if I am to quote ali when he said : "...he says Coach isnt' the only factor", I have to agree. success in football ( or anything else, for that matter ) is multi-factorial.
a coach is just ONE side of the multifaceted object. ( players, infrastructures, attitude, culture, money, ..... etc etc etc are others ).
so when you ask "are we obsessed with ability of a coach", I must say shdnt we be obsessed with the tires of a car that we drive? as much as we shd obsess with the engine, or lights, or the cabin space or ... . becoz we cant simply obsess about the car without obsessing about its different parts.

But at the same time, I dont see ANYONE claiming "once we get a good coach all our problems are solved".
which brings me to ....... ... what were you trying to say ?

( No. believe it or not, I'm NOT drunk . just dense, today )

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

Bahram Jaan,

Salam aziz, I am kind of upset about the whole Kaz ban and try to come to PFDC less to be honest. I feel there is a strong bias toward certain point of view (which is fine), but at times it is being forced upon and enforced forcefully to certain number of people who aren't subscribed to that point of view and speak up against it.

Back to the topic at hand. Please read your post. Your post I think clearly makes the piont that Haji points out. You see the PP success as a result of Ghotbi. You say no I didnt' mean it that way probably, but see you didnt' mention the role of Estili and Marzban and Azizian to bring really good players at teh end of season, role of Kashani and his pal who forced Ansarifard out, even role of Denizli from the last season and many other probable reasons that you and I aren't aware of.

I am not saying Ghotbi didnt' have a role. I wouldn't dare to say that, I am sure he had a role maybe bigger or smaller than what you and I claim. But nevertheles he did have a role (probably a very major one).

But to you all you mention from PP success is Ghotbi. I think this is the point Haji trying to make (hope not putting words into Haji's mouth, Haji please clarify, if I am right or wrong). Haji doesn't say Ghotbi or X or Y role is miniscule, he says Coach isnt' the only factor. As farsi saying goes abroo, baado mah khoorsheed va falak dar karand, ta too nanny be kaf aree va be ghaflet nakhoori. Now in football (one element granted a a major one is the coach) and a very important one mind you but not the only one.

Look at the threads in F+ or even worst in the main thread, how many threads about current and former head coaches? How many about other issues? That is the point.

[Hajagha]

well, to me the word "obsessed" meant are we making too much of a deal of this issue.
and I think we HAVE TO. if to cover or rectify even a small area of our football, at least. coz otherwise, we'd under-achieve even more.

You have only a limited resource of time/energy/money. If you keep all your resources to fix some thing is not effective. Then I call it "obsession".

Otherwise, as Ali Chicago mentioned who said we don't need a coach?

As I mentioned, this view came to me after 10 years of being around guys like you with good knowledge of football, I don't expect you accept this in a blink. But I am sure a wise guy like you will get there.

Cheers,

[Hajagha]

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

[zzgloo]

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I dont' think Haji is trying to deny the role of great coach, that is why he used teh word obssesed in the post. All he is saying is "our expectation is unrealistic from a coach" that as long as we have a good coach all of the other issues will be magically solved. Which it won't, I agree full heartedly with it.

Ali jaan, salam.................where have you been ?
...........
hajagha e aziz, makes broad generalization, and calls all obssesed, and belives, the culture that desreves " Shovel", will have no use for computer !....which there may be some truth to that, and he appears to be very convinsed that is the case.....
But, with that mentality, how could we explain , Ghotbi's success ?
13 year old boy leaves the country, and studies in america, and only heading coach is with a university................and some video analysis with korea....and learns some deciplin on the west......
then all of the sudden , he goes back to Iran, after 30 some years, and starts the job, the very first week....and knowing nothing about the system, and still not knwoing.................and only being there for only 6 mounths !!
, and if you add that 6 point reduction of FIFA, he is well above all, I repeat " ALL ", domestic coaches .
How can with explain that ?.................
could it be, that ,the western deciplin can work in Iran too ??..........and iranians can improve with out side mentality ?
Could it be, that not only western system works in Iran, but also is better than what Iranians in Iran can offer ?

[Doctor DOOM]

well, to me the word "obsessed" meant are we making too much of a deal of this issue.
and I think we HAVE TO. if to cover or rectify even a small area of our football, at least. coz otherwise, we'd under-achieve even more.

[Ali Chicago]

Reza jan, I think you can find ur answer in our WC06 campaign.

...

so, to answer you, YES, A GOOD COACH DOES MAKE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE ... even with our lacks and deficiencies.

I don't think Haji denying the role of a good coach at all. He is saying a different thing. That is why he used "being obssesed" with the coach's ability.

[Ali Chicago]

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I dont' think Haji is trying to deny the role of great coach, that is why he used teh word obssesed in the post. All he is saying is "our expectation is unrealistic from a coach" that as long as we have a good coach all of the other issues will be magically solved. Which it won't, I agree full heartedly with it.