Can Ghotbi be a second Mohajerani of Iran?

[perspolees]

persi jan. You know this argument has always had me on the other side.
and I still say the right way to CORRECT our football shd be MULTI-PRONGED. meaning we can have a comprehensive plan, comprising of several short term and some long term solutions that shd be attacked at the same time and not in series. exactly as bahram jan says. we shd not look at our problems one at a time.

football has many facets and factors or divisions, if you may, that need to be attacked SEPARATELY.
what you want is to have a great foundation and infrastructure and then get a good coach for TM.

but I have always argued we can correct some of the sub-sections separately while we strive to better our foundation simultaneously.

knowing Iran and all its issues, I dont think we'll see that kind of foundation and infrastructure that you want anytime soon.
so what shd we do? be happy with lousy coaches and justify it be saying " een taraf ke kharabeh. baghiyeh ro velesh kon !"
coz if we want to sit and wait for great facilities and lovely stadia and excellent foundation and youth system and .... , we gotta wait a loooooooong long time !

and loooooooooooooooooooooooong time we shall wait simply because we do not have infra structure.
and lllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooonger if we think that the coaching factor is of any significance for tm and now....rather than at least understanding that giving all of this dough to a foreigner to come and go and perform like GN did is just waste of time and money...they are all destined to fail! gn, denizli, hiddink, kapello,etc. etc...

with this recipe and belief we will never get there!
every single piece has to be in harmony with the other
every thought to become reality needs hard work and plannig.
The cure is never hiring a great coach for tm...has never been and will never be for a long time, for that our short term history on this board is the witness! nothing has changed drastically!!

this issue of foreign coach and then vatani and then foreign coach has been in the past and mark my words will be in the future used only for political gains of the iff and baraye inke mardomo donbale nokhod siyah beferestand...watch the next iff head..( getting rid of gn and hiring a foreigner perhaps !!
hala shoma ya donbaleroye nokhod siyahi ya belakhare ino meebeeni...I am sure one day you will see the matrix!!
we go up and down based on essentially two things:

players talent and performance at any given time that is never persistant
and
draw of the luck!

so why bang on the coach issue!!?

Ofcourse everything is multifactorial, but they are hardly ever seperate when you wat to put a plan to succeed..one feed from another and they go in a harmonious chain reaction.

we do need short term, midterm, longrterm plans, in none of these plans if the idea is to succeed hiring this coach or that for tm is of any significance and can be for a long time to come...thats

[Doctor DOOM]

this is again the same nonesene notion of this coach versus that when we lack fundamentals!!
IT REALLY DOES NOT MAKE A DORN DIFFERENCE!
I HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THIS NOW FOR 5 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN ON THIS FORUM, AND VOILA! TM HAS NOT HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OF ANY SORT EXCEPT FOR LUCKY QUALIFICATION TO WC IN 06 SECONDARY TO EASIER GROUPINGS AND ADDITIONAL BERTHS AFTER EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMACES BY THE TWO ASIAN TEAMS...
dige ta key baba!?..........

persi jan. You know this argument has always had me on the other side.
and I still say the right way to CORRECT our football shd be MULTI-PRONGED. meaning we can have a comprehensive plan, comprising of several short term and some long term solutions that shd be attacked at the same time and not in series. exactly as bahram jan says. we shd not look at our problems one at a time.

football has many facets and factors or divisions, if you may, that need to be attacked SEPARATELY.
what you want is to have a great foundation and infrastructure and then get a good coach for TM.

but I have always argued we can correct some of the sub-sections separately while we strive to better our foundation simultaneously.

knowing Iran and all its issues, I dont think we'll see that kind of foundation and infrastructure that you want anytime soon.
so what shd we do? be happy with lousy coaches and justify it be saying " een taraf ke kharabeh. baghiyeh ro velesh kon !"
coz if we want to sit and wait for great facilities and lovely stadia and excellent foundation and youth system and .... , we gotta wait a loooooooong long time !

[zzgloo]

Here's where I have a diff. approach.
imho focus should be directed to the problem..these this or that coach questions and arguments are irrelevant...
problem has never been, is not and for a long time will not be who the hell our coah was, is or will be!
simple as that!
so theres no situation as such at hand!
with branko we were that
with gn we are this
the this and that will continue only the main thing will stay the same:
we will regress as the world football progresses.. and the two brnko and gn in the big scheme of things will never have a sensible difference!!

So, what you are saying,is that, we need to do only one at the time, and there no possibility to do both at the time...and hireing a good coach will not let us to focus on IFF and the league ?...is that what you are saying ?

[RaginG Inferno]

Here's where I have a diff. approach.
imho focus should be directed to the problem..these this or that coach questions and arguments are irrelevant...
problem has never been, is not and for a long time will not be who the hell our coah was, is or will be!
simple as that!
so theres no situation as such at hand!
with branko we were that
with gn we are this
the this and that will continue only the main thing will stay the same:
we will regress as the world football progresses.. and the two brnko and gn in the big scheme of things will never have a sensible difference!!

Well, although I agree in some parts, I must say that a good coach is a good short term solution.

We must aim to secure our football in the long term, whilst not forgetting our short terms goals. Hiring a good coach is important in this...

The question is not one or the other, but, in my opinion, why not both?

[perspolees]

perspolees e aziz.................
I also have been saying the same thing, as we need foundemental changes, from,most important, profesional league, to independent knowledgeble IFF, to better governement..............
But, the question,that , what do we do NOW ? must be answered anyway.
And that is to say, what can we do,with situation at hand ?
And, finding a good coach is very relevent in that regard.

Here's where I have a diff. approach.
imho focus should be directed to the problem..these this or that coach questions and arguments are irrelevant...

problem has never been, is not and for a long time will not be who the hell our coah was, is or will be!
simple as that!
so theres no situation as such at hand!
with branko we were that
with gn we are this
the this and that will continue only the main thing will stay the same:
we will regress as the world football progresses.. and the two brnko and gn in the big scheme of things will never have a sensible difference!!

[RaginG Inferno]

this is again the same nonesene notion of this coach versus that when we lack fundamentals!!
IT REALLY DOES NOT MAKE A DORN DIFFERENCE!
I HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THIS NOW FOR 5 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN ON THIS FORUM, AND VOILA! TM HAS NOT HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OF ANY SORT EXCEPT FOR LUCKY QUALIFICATION TO WC IN 06 SECONDARY TO EASIER GROUPINGS AND ADDITIONAL BERTHS AFTER EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMACES BY THE TWO ASIAN TEAMS...
dige ta key baba!?
in khar mire yeki dige miyad ab az ab takoon nemeekhore vali hame zoom kardan ke che kasi head coach beshe!!?
baba hiddink, wenger, lippi, kapello, gn, ranko, ghobi..hamashoon saro tah ye karbasan baraye in football ba in tm va in ghavaneen va in mamlekat...
its not like we have ferrari that needs schumacher to drive it!!!
mashti hassan baba from dehe payeenbala is just perfect for teh gary that we have for football!! t least he knows how to communicate to the garikesh!!

Yes. A new coach is simply a short term solution.

If we want real success, we need quality coaches and players being churned out by our league. The basic standards need to be met(ie paying players on time, clubs selling broadcasting rights, adequate training facilities, etc.)

[RaginG Inferno]

Afshin Ghotbi has the advantage of being acquainted with our culture and language(obviously!) whilst simultaneously having his training abroad, in a more professional environment.

[zzgloo]

this is again the same nonesene notion of this coach versus that when we lack fundamentals!!
IT REALLY DOES NOT MAKE A DORN DIFFERENCE!
I HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THIS NOW FOR 5 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN ON THIS FORUM, AND VOILA! TM HAS NOT HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OF ANY SORT EXCEPT FOR LUCKY QUALIFICATION TO WC IN 06 SECONDARY TO EASIER GROUPINGS AND ADDITIONAL BERTHS AFTER EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMACES BY THE TWO ASIAN TEAMS...
dige ta key baba!?
in khar mire yeki dige miyad ab az ab takoon nemeekhore vali hame zoom kardan ke che kasi head coach beshe!!?
baba hiddink, wenger, lippi, kapello, gn, ranko, ghobi..hamashoon saro tah ye karbasan baraye in football ba in tm va in ghavaneen va in mamlekat...
its not like we have ferrari that needs schumacher to drive it!!!
mashti hassan baba from dehe payeenbala is just perfect for teh gary that we have for football!! t least he knows how to communicate to the garikesh!!

perspolees e aziz.................
I also have been saying the same thing, as we need foundemental changes, from,most important, profesional league, to independent knowledgeble IFF, to better governement..............
But, the question,that , what do we do NOW ? must be answered anyway.
And that is to say, what can we do,with situation at hand ?
And, finding a good coach is very relevent in that regard.

[Ali Chicago]

Well Dada, I guess putting the two (Ghotbi and Mohajerani) next to each other implies that. Heshmat Khan was our youth coach who later took over the national team. The other thing is this Perspolise team is mainly made by Estili, since Ghotbi came to Iran like few days before the IPL start. I don't see the same level of enthusiasem about Estili??!!!!

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Baba Perspolees I know you are not offending...

But i dont understand why ppl NOT READ MY POST CLEARLY

every reply to this thread has nothing to do with the context of the thread.
Did I ever say he should be TM coach?

Baba all I am saying is that he seems to have the same sort of pattern (nothing to do with TM or whole football nation) as Mohajerani IMO

I never said GHOTBI to be next TM coach or GHOTBI can change the Iranian Football. or anything

[perspolees]

btw no offense to adesor for the post...I have enjoyed his contribution to the site.... but just there is no depth in these conversations of this coach versus that for tm..

[perspolees]

this is again the same nonesene notion of this coach versus that when we lack fundamentals!!
IT REALLY DOES NOT MAKE A DORN DIFFERENCE!
I HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THIS NOW FOR 5 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN ON THIS FORUM, AND VOILA! TM HAS NOT HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OF ANY SORT EXCEPT FOR LUCKY QUALIFICATION TO WC IN 06 SECONDARY TO EASIER GROUPINGS AND ADDITIONAL BERTHS AFTER EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMACES BY THE TWO ASIAN TEAMS...

dige ta key baba!?
in khar mire yeki dige miyad ab az ab takoon nemeekhore vali hame zoom kardan ke che kasi head coach beshe!!?
baba hiddink, wenger, lippi, kapello, gn, ranko, ghobi..hamashoon saro tah ye karbasan baraye in football ba in tm va in ghavaneen va in mamlekat...

its not like we have ferrari that needs schumacher to drive it!!!
mashti hassan baba from dehe payeenbala is just perfect for teh gary that we have for football!! t least he knows how to communicate to the garikesh!!

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I think you whoever thinks that a coach can change the football is seeing the horse and buggy thing backwarded.
A good IFF organization is needed first who come and select a good coach in place and oversees the work of the coach (without interfering) and faciliate the coach's program with arranging frienlies, etc, etc.
Although, I didn't like Shah's regime, but the Football Federation under Atabai during the shah's time among other federation was better organzied and better ran.
Without undermining the work and effort of Heshmat Khan, those who are old enough to remember, Iranian football on those days was winning the Asian youth championship left and right or was second. There was Jaame Valiahd in Khuzestan (Ahwaz I think). Top 3 teams from Iranian youth championship was going there and playing against youth teams from high level class footballing countries like England (Aresenal youth team was there) Brazil, Easter block like Russia, Czechoslavkai, Hungry were coming to the Jaame valiahad. The Team melli in big part except 4-5 players Ali Parvin and Nasser Hejazi, Kazearani, and Eskandareeyan, were the kids who came through the youth programs, Nazari, Roowshan, Ghasempoor, Mohamad Sadeghi, Habib Khabiri,..... . The point is youth system was in place and Heshmat Khan was there in time to rip the benefit and mix it with his own ingenuity. To be honest, I have to mention Raykoof's work here as well. Raykoof in a way had a big part in Iranian football. I met him about 15 year ago in Winnipeg Canada and knowledege of that man and love of that man for Iranian football was amazing. He was asking me about individual players, their well being, what do they do. I think he live in Vancouver right now. The generation that Raykoof developed in Esteghlal were the backbone of the TM as well. Hejazi, Abdoolahi, Karoo Haghverdeeyan, Reza Adelkhani, ...... .
I am not trying to undermine the role of Heshmat Khan. Man is a gem and I respect him whole heartedly, but again and again one coach won't make a difference, the system is the important thing. In the past 5 years two CEO of the Mcdonald company had cancer and died, despite both of them being brilliant men, their loss didnt' imapct the company much, since there was a system in place. We need to put that system in place. As a matter of fact, guys like Kashani in PP seems to be doing just that and use Ghotbi as a piece of that puzzle. IRI actually already used this remedy in Volleyball, Basketball and weightlifting with huge success. I dont' know what is teh reason that the same remedy isn't implemented in football??
Moral of the story, ba yek gol bahar nemeesheh.

agreed!
But
I never said in my post that a coach can change the whole football of a nation.
what I was referring to was the similiar pattern that looks very identical to both.
Point is I see some major improvements in PP game BUT I know its way too early to judge, the whole season must pass to make a judgement. Every single body of a big football family can make an impact for improvement. Mohajerani did his part when he was given all the facilities... the same seems to be true for Ghotbi at PP at least for now IMO.

[Ali Chicago]

I think, whoever thinks that a coach can change the football is seeing the horse and buggy thing backwarded.

A good IFF organization is needed first who come and select a good coach in place and oversees the work of the coach (without interfering) and faciliate the coach's program with arranging frienlies, etc, etc.

Although, I didn't like Shah's regime, but the Football Federation under Atabai during the shah's time among other federation was better organzied and better ran.
Without undermining the work and effort of Heshmat Khan, those who are old enough to remember, Iranian football on those days was winning the Asian youth championship left and right or was second. There was Jaame Valiahd in Khuzestan (Ahwaz I think). Top 3 teams from Iranian youth championship was going there and playing against youth teams from high level class footballing countries like England (Aresenal youth team was there) Brazil, Easter block like Russia, Czechoslavkai, Hungry were coming to the Jaame valiahad. The Team melli in big part except 4-5 players Ali Parvin and Nasser Hejazi, Kazearani, and Eskandareeyan, were the kids who came through the youth programs, Nazari, Roowshan, Ghasempoor, Mohamad Sadeghi, Habib Khabiri,..... . The point is youth system was in place and Heshmat Khan was there in time to rip the benefit and mix it with his own ingenuity. To be honest, I have to mention Raykoof's work here as well. Raykoof in a way had a big part in Iranian football. I met him about 15 year ago in Winnipeg Canada and knowledege of that man and love of that man for Iranian football was amazing. He was asking me about individual players, their well being, what do they do. I think he live in Vancouver right now. The generation that Raykoof developed in Esteghlal were the backbone of the TM as well. Hejazi, Abdoolahi, Karoo Haghverdeeyan, Reza Adelkhani, ...... .

I am not trying to undermine the role of Heshmat Khan. Man is a gem and I respect him whole heartedly, but again and again one coach won't make a difference, the system is the important thing. In the past 5 years two CEO of the Mcdonald company had cancer and died, despite both of them being brilliant men, their loss didnt' imapct the company much, since there was a system in place. We need to put that system in place. As a matter of fact, guys like Kashani in PP seems to be doing just that and use Ghotbi as a piece of that puzzle. IRI actually already used this remedy in Volleyball, Basketball and weightlifting with huge success. I dont' know what is teh reason that the same remedy isn't implemented in football??

Moral of the story, ba yek gol bahar nemeesheh.

[zzgloo]

It may be too soon, but we can guess ,!,can n't we ??
But, I think Ghotbi is far better than Mohajerani.......
when Mohajerani, came to Iran,the first time, he niether had ghotbi's experince nor his knowledge......Mohajerani started his by, coaching " the team VALI AHD was playing at, which meant, he was personal coach of DARBAR...later he became youth coach....
as ghotbi starting by coaching,Perspolise.which may be highest coaching job in Iran,after TM.
................I Guess, if, he does not give up the perspolise mafia, he will win it all..........the reason ??........the league is too weak !!.....most other forign coaches are succesful, and they realy do not have much creadentials....,and non of them have , the budget, fans, and talent level perspolise has.