Will Iran's Football prosper under the Islamic Republic?

[somebuffguy]

Why do you have to be so aggressive all the time?
I get that you think forums are fine for sh*t-talking but you just come across really hostile for no reason, a lot of people come on forums to chill out not to have to deal with someone who is always on level 11 aggression. Are you like this in real life?

Everyone is exactly in real life as they're online like twitter, youtube, this forum, etc. Proven science.
Edit: Also, not talking about you Moosh jaan, but for people who talk about a revolution, some people on this forum are very fragile.

[kian_khosh]

Everyone is exactly in real life as they're online like twitter, youtube, this forum, etc. Proven science.
Edit: Also, not talking about you Moosh jaan, but for people who talk about a revolution, some people on this forum are very fragile.

the way u speak it seems that ur username is a facade and like u struggle with benching a plate

[somebuffguy]

the way u speak it seems that ur username is a facade and like u struggle with benching a plate

The username is kinda old so you're not far from the truth lol

[DR Strangemoosh]

Everyone is exactly in real life as they're online like twitter, youtube, this forum, etc. Proven science.
Edit: Also, not talking about you Moosh jaan, but for people who talk about a revolution, some people on this forum are very fragile.

Again, just over the top. I never said "exactly like real life", I just wondered if you are as needlessly hostile in real life.

Like the comment you made (now removed) when I posted something about Reiss Nelson.

Just pointless aggression for no reason dude.... "shit posting" (as you call it) is cool for teenagers on twitter but this is a discussion forum and most of us are in our thirties or forties. Do we need it?

[Babak agha]

Sports (or more specifically Football) had ups and downs in both Pahlavi and IRI eras. There were strengths and weaknesses in both era.
Each era, situations and conditions were different. For Example, in Pahlavi era, Iranians could easily get visa or visa-waiver for many countries, yet national team did not arrange friendly matches with let's say Europeans (apart from Turkey) and Latin Americans until the 1970s. Iran did not join World Cup qualification until 1974, yet other Asian Countries such as Dutch East Indies, Palestine Mandate(later Israel), Syria, Japan, India, South Korea, North Korea their participation in World Cup Qualification dates back to either 1930s, 1950s or 1960s.

Alright so you mention each era and situation is different and then mention how easy it was for Iranians to get visa or visa-waivers, but Iran didn't play friendlies (will get back to this part). Well following your own logic we could say that Iran during the 40's had other problems at hand, there was a huge famine that killed 25% of our population, caused by the very people we didn't play friendlies with. Then in the 50's there was another famine and the whole coup. After things got more stable, Iran's football started to progress from basically being non existent.

Iran Military (Artesh) and Police (Shahrbani) interfered in national league, regional league or national team affairs. Corruption existed in Pahlavi period.

I hope you are not saying that we progressed in this area, even an akhund will not believe that.

However, some people just enjoy bashing others and disregard achievements by others. Go on with their delusional idea that Pahlavi period was flawless, Perfect according to them!
Pahlavi supporters keep on IRI bashing on this forum and disregarding that Iran won 3 Gold Medals in Asian Games.
1990 edition was as competitive as Asia Cup. 1998 edition was also competitive only Saudi Arabia was sending their U23 to Asian Games in 1994 & 1998, Iran didn't face them. In 1990 Asian Games Iran eliminated South Korea who several months before was at 1990 World Cup. In 1998 Iran demolished the reigning champions Uzbekistan by 4-0.

With all due respect, I think Iran has a bit higher aspirations as Asian games being their sole claim to success.

In Asia Cup competitions, Team Melli exited 1984, 2004, 2007, 2015 without losing a match. Is it IRI's fault that Iranian players can not convert penalties and lose in P.S.O.? or corrupt referees make decisions against Iran?
There are some teams that consistently lose in PSO such as England and Iran.

You can simply win games against 'weaker' opponents, to prevent a PSO. Drawing games is no progress compared to winning I suppose.

South Korea has not won Asia Cup since 1960!!! China with so much investment in Football has never won Asia Cup. Kuwait who invested so much in Football only won Asia Cup once. This is sign that traditional powers such as Iran, South Korea and Kuwait fell behind because others such as Japan and Saudi Arabia improved. What's Saudi Arabia and Japan's secret for such consistency, I wouldn't know. However what I do know is that neither Kuwait or South Korea are Islamic Republics

I don't understand what SK, China and Kuwait have to do with wether we progressed or not, But South Korea has entered almost all WC's, reach a WC semi final and had successful players at the best teams of Europe. China's people obviously do not really care for football and Kuwait has a population smaller than some families in my town. Population and popularity are major factors in a country being successful at something, hence Iran, SA, Japan, SK are the strongholds of Asia (Big population, relatively popular sport). Also please compare SK achievements on the world stage vs ours and do your comparison again..

Iran qualified for 1980 Olympic Games but boycotted for political reasons. Yet, some members say Iran did not quality for Olympic Games in IRI era.

Is this progress? boycotting important events? Then why were you previously pointing out that during shah it was a bad thing we did not enter some competitions and did not play friendlies against better teams. I suppose the Olympic Games have somewhat more importance to them than friendlies, wouldn't you say?

In continental club competitions:
Esteghlal won 1990–91. Also twice runner-up in 1991, 1998–99.
PAS Tehran won 1993-94 Asian Champions League
Persepolis won 1990–91 (Cup Winners Cup) & runner-up in (1992–93). Also twice runner up in Champions League 2018, 2020.
Sepahan was runner up in 2007.
Zobahan was runner up in 2010.

So the Asian CL started in 1967 and lasted till 1971 (there was no 1968 edition), the 1972 edition got cancelled. Then in 1985 they started organizing it again. In the 4 times during the shah era the ACL was held, Taj won it once and become 3rd another time. So won it 25% of the time and made the top 3 50% of the time. Now let's compare these to IR era and see if there was any progress..

I have to say that I'm not convinced and I'm sticking to my first opinion: there has been 0 progression in our football under IR.

[somebuffguy]

Again, just over the top. I never said "exactly like real life", I just wondered if you are as needlessly hostile in real life.

Like the comment you made (now removed) when I posted something about Reiss Nelson.

Just pointless aggression for no reason dude.... "shit posting" (as you call it) is cool for teenagers on twitter but this is a discussion forum and most of us are in our thirties or forties. Do we need it?

When I said shit posting I meant people openly calling to ban people even though there was non-violent speech nor a direct insult of anyone. I do not believe that my posts are aggressive, although I admit this is why we have moderators.

[Hosseini]

I mentioned this before, but I think Iran's football has gotten great results even with this current government. Could it do better? Of course, but to say we haven't prospered is wrong. We have had countless stars perform excellently throughout Europe over the past decades. We have gotten great results in the World Cup. We have had world-class coaches speak highly of our players and come to Iran to coach.

We reached a peak point following the JCPOA which helped ease tensions with other countries and bring Iran back to the international community, organizing very good friendlies with teams like Chile, Sweden, Algeria, and Turkey. We have played Brazil in an international friendly. This all fell to a dark point after the JCPOA, in my opinion, thanks to Trump's band of neocons, right-wing Zionists, and diaspora Iranians who want to sabotage our people's lives to make themselves the center of attention.

This is not to mention our incredible results at the international level in futsal and beach football.

Are there problems and is there corruption, oppression, and ineptitude? Women's rights and treatment are a serious and grotesque stain. I am not an IR fan. But I think they can be overcome and fixed through time.

[taremiscores]

I mentioned this before, but I think Iran's football has gotten great results even with this current government. Could it do better? Of course, but to say we haven't prospered is wrong. We have had countless stars perform excellently throughout Europe over the past decades. We have gotten great results in the World Cup. We have had world-class coaches speak highly of our players and come to Iran to coach.

We reached a peak point following the JCPOA which helped ease tensions with other countries and bring Iran back to the international community, organizing very good friendlies with teams like Chile, Sweden, Algeria, and Turkey. We have played Brazil in an international friendly. This all fell to a dark point after the JCPOA, in my opinion, thanks to Trump's band of neocons, right-wing Zionists, and diaspora Iranians who want to sabotage our people's lives to make themselves the center of attention.

This is not to mention our incredible results at the international level in futsal and beach football.

Are there problems and is there corruption, oppression, and ineptitude? Women's rights and treatment are a serious and grotesque stain. I am not an IR fan. But I think they can be overcome and fixed through time.

We have not got great results at the World Cup. We are the only one out of Australia, Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to never make it past the group stage. At this point, most football analysts (rightfully so) think we are a pushover for the bigger teams. Asia has 5 undeserved slots.

These are our World Cup finishes:

1. 1978 - 14th
2. 1998 - 20th
3. 2006 - 25th
4. 2014 - 28th
5. 2018 - 18th

We have had only one World Class manager - Carlos Queiroz and we performed magnificently in 2018 with him (despite him not having logistical support from gov't/IFF)

We have had good players in Europe but honestly, how in comparison to what Japan and South Korea have had, we are way behind. Australia recently have had downturn, but historically speaking - they've had a lot of great EPL players. We have talented players, but they often have bad footballing foundations because of poor grassroots/developmental leagues. We also have one of the oldest leagues in the world. The question is, what government programs have helped our youth? There needs to be context.

[O-ZoNe]

We have not got great results at the World Cup. We are the only one out of Australia, Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to never make it past the group stage. At this point, most football analysts (rightfully so) think we are a pushover for the bigger teams. Asia has 5 undeserved slots.

These are our World Cup finishes:

1. 1978 - 14th
2. 1998 - 20th
3. 2006 - 25th
4. 2014 - 28th
5. 2018 - 18th

We have had only one World Class manager - Carlos Queiroz and we performed magnificently in 2018 with him (despite him not having logistical support from gov't/IFF)

We have had good players in Europe but honestly, how in comparison to what Japan and South Korea have had, we are way behind. Australia recently have had downturn, but historically speaking - they've had a lot of great EPL players. We have talented players, but they often have bad footballing foundations because of poor grassroots/developmental leagues. We also have one of the oldest leagues in the world. The question is, what government programs have helped our youth? There needs to be context.

Just a quick point...1978 was our worst WC performance albeit our first. 1978 only had 16 teams

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[taremiscores]

Just a quick point...1978 was our worst WC performance albeit our first. 1978 only had 16 teams

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Only 16 teams and one Asian teams allotted - Iran still made it .

[inarsenewetrust]

We have not got great results at the World Cup. We are the only one out of Australia, Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to never make it past the group stage. At this point, most football analysts (rightfully so) think we are a pushover for the bigger teams. Asia has 5 undeserved slots.
These are our World Cup finishes:
1. 1978 - 14th
2. 1998 - 20th
3. 2006 - 25th
4. 2014 - 28th
5. 2018 - 18th
We have had only one World Class manager - Carlos Queiroz and we performed magnificently in 2018 with him (despite him not having logistical support from gov't/IFF)
We have had good players in Europe but honestly, how in comparison to what Japan and South Korea have had, we are way behind. Australia recently have had downturn, but historically speaking - they've had a lot of great EPL players. We have talented players, but they often have bad footballing foundations because of poor grassroots/developmental leagues. We also have one of the oldest leagues in the world. The question is, what government programs have helped our youth? There needs to be context.

I see your point but I think you are answering a totally different question:

That is Will our football ever succeed BECAUSE of IR. The answer is no and I think everyone agrees. That is the point you are making.
Others are making the point that our football can, and to some extent has, succeeded despite/in no particular direct relation to IR. Similarly, Our wrestling is incredibly successful, our volleyball has made enormous leaps (as have martial arts like Taekwandoe, karate, etc). Is that BECAUSE of IR? No, but rather the work of dedicated people who are making the best of the resources available to them.

With a few such changes our football could see similar success, with or without IR. The talent pool is too big for even a shitty corrupt government to destroy. One example of this in very recent history: Holding onto CQ for 8 years! how many other nations have held onto such a coach on international stage for that amount of time? We didnt use him to the maximum, but it allowed a huge change to occur in our football. Individuals in the federation and even government fought against other forces to keep him there. Teams like Saudi arabia are just starting to catch on and do something similar with a coach of much lower pedigree. SK have constant coaching instability, same with aussie. Look at our neighbor turkey. A "european country" that dumps huge funds into their league, every team in 1st and 2nd div building new state of the art stadium, still zero stability or success on international stage. Even in terms of legionairres not particularly more successful than us (esp. considering the gulf in resources). Goes to show that in football money+infrastructure past a certain basic standard doesnt necessarily determine success.

During that time (8 years of CQ) I think you could say iranian football was prospering. We improved the quality of the national team tremendously, blooded a new generation of players many of whom went on to star in europe, started organizing semi regular friendlies with solid international opposition, made back 2 back world cups, and showed steadily improving performances there. In the same time frame, our u20 team used CQ blueprint and made it to a u20 WC, showed a respectable performance there (unlucky not to go through). Of that u20 team, 3-4 are now TM senior players. Our u17 team made it to WC QF, huge accomplishment. 2 from that group are impacting the senior national team. Not to mention great performances of futsal beach football, and gains shown by womens teams (with all the restrictions they face). In the same time frame, Naghshe Jahan + AQR + Foolad arena, all of respectable international standard and size were built. Are they the best most modern stadia in the world? No, but they are solid and an improvement. Not all of this was down to CQ, but his presence, good performance from kaffashian as head of IFF, and excellent grassroots work of a new face like Chamanian suddenly made it possible.

Clearly, the system is not designed in a way that will even contribute, much less guarantee, the success of our society/sports. But this is not the first shitty government to rule Iran and will probably not be the last. Success is still possible if a few people show humility, sacrifice, and semi-long term thinking at any particular time.

[inarsenewetrust]

* and even one addition to previous statement. The quality of the league was improving during said time as well. Just by having a couple decent international coaches (Branko, Schaeffer, portuguese assistants) we saw PP make it consistently far in ACL. Then they repeated feat with Yahya. In the same time they helped improve/showcase the likes of Beiro, Rezaeian, Moharrami Alipour, Taremi, Kanani to broader audience. Huge accomplishment considering they were also losing many of these key guys every year. Many with that experience went on to become core of NT. The league was also bringing in some quality foreigners, look at success of SS during that time with just like Mame thiam, Djeparov plus their own youngsters like Majid and then Allayar, Ghayedi. Simultaneously, Daei was still uncovering new talents like Gholizadeh, Torabi, Hosseinzadeh and Allahyar while at Saipa.

These are all strong indicators of success. Sad thing is we couldnt keep that up for longer than 8 years. Internal and external forces both contributed to that in huge ways. An additional 4-8 years (plus recent developments like FC Kia + new impetus for u23 side, involvement of new young coaches like navidkia, majidi, nekounam, hashemian etc) would have made us a bona-fide top 20 team in the world. We can still get there even with IR, but it will take at least some improvement of overall societal situation.

A lot of posters (not directed at you tehranto) are under this weird impression life and all activities in Iran are simply over bc IR exists/ they personally hate IR. People still live and try to make the the best of the situation, in many cases the limited resources actually trigger more gheyrat, more creativity, and more ideas. There are so many examples of this in our own history, throughout all previous despotic governments.

[Hosseini]

I would argue 2018 was a great result at a WC. That was achieved under the government. Blazevic was also a world-class coach (3rd place result at WC) and on paper, Wilmots was supposed to be.

But to entertain your point, and many others here - what are you advocating for to change these conditions, armed revolution? And if so, what does that entail? Because the options on the table that are being suggested by many are US-backed regime change. You know there are risks to that as well right? Like turning into Libya, or Syria - much more disastrous situations - or letting other outside powers destabilize the country for their own benefit

As someone in the US, I am supporting a policy that would make life better for the ordinary Iranian - primary to that goal is ending sanctions. And the country I am also a citizen of - the United States - is carrying out those brutal sanctions. That's all I have power over and I take some responsibility for trying to change it.

We have not got great results at the World Cup. We are the only one out of Australia, Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to never make it past the group stage. At this point, most football analysts (rightfully so) think we are a pushover for the bigger teams. Asia has 5 undeserved slots.

These are our World Cup finishes:

1. 1978 - 14th
2. 1998 - 20th
3. 2006 - 25th
4. 2014 - 28th
5. 2018 - 18th

We have had only one World Class manager - Carlos Queiroz and we performed magnificently in 2018 with him (despite him not having logistical support from gov't/IFF)

We have had good players in Europe but honestly, how in comparison to what Japan and South Korea have had, we are way behind. Australia recently have had downturn, but historically speaking - they've had a lot of great EPL players. We have talented players, but they often have bad footballing foundations because of poor grassroots/developmental leagues. We also have one of the oldest leagues in the world. The question is, what government programs have helped our youth? There needs to be context.

[Rooyintan]

Under the Pahlavi, Sport and Football in Iran throughout history were under Military Administration or involved with military and that tradition continued in IRI period.

Let's see which Military personalities were in charge during the Pahlavi period.

Presidents of Iran Sport Organization

Timsar Amanollah Jahanbani - First Term (Sep 1947 to Dec 1947), Second Term (Feb 1948 to Jan 1953)

Timsar Nader Batmanqelich - 14 Jan 1953 to 14 May 1953

Sarlashgar Abbas Izadpanah - First Term (Aug 1953 to 17 Sep 1958), Second Term (Nov 1962 to Jan 1967)

Sarlashgar Mohammad Daftari - Sep 1958 to Jan 1961

Timsar Parviz Khosravani - Feb 1968 to Sep 1971

Sartip Mostafa Amjadi - Sep 1971 to May 1972

Sepahbod Ali Hojat Khashani - Sep 1972 to Sep 1975

Sepahbod Nader Jahanbani - Sep 1977 to Feb 1979

Presidents of Iran Football Federation

Sepahbod Hedayatollah Gilanshah - Nov 1950 to Dec 1952

Presidents of Taj FC

Timsar Parviz Khosravani - 1945 to 1949

Sarvan Parviz Sheikhan - 1949 to 1978

http://hisport.ir/showarticle.php?id=16

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%81%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%88%D9%86_%D9%81%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84_%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B4%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%87_%D9%81%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84_%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84_%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86?tableofcontents=0#%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86_%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%B4%DB%8C%D9%86

[Rooyintan]

Under Presidency of this guy, IRI boycotted participation at 1980 Olympic Games for all sports (which sadly included Iran's national football team)

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%86_%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D8%AD%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%86%DB%8C