(#POLL) Comparing coaches thread: Who is the best? Skocic, Wilmotz, CQ, Branko, Daei,

[AliCarbon]

Hold on.. who voted for Daie??🤔

Guys! I think he reads this forum!!!!!

[naderb94]

Hold on.. who voted for Daie??🤔

Guys! I think he reads this forum!!!!!

Probably a Saudi fan lol

[Doctor DOOM]

I see Shojaei has come up.
as someone who really wanted him to quit TM and was opposed to play him in important games, I must say he redeemed himself and all his bad performances, all his screw ups and bad games by his honesty and guts to stand with the people against the regime policies. No matter how small.
especially when we see almost 99% of other players and super stars and fan favorites and all those whom fans swear by, keep their mouths shut and dont dare speak out. (and dont get me started with Mothrfkrs like Torabi sucking khamenei's balls).
for that I will always respect him and defend him.

as much as sports is good and important to us, HUMANITY is even more important.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Build this legend a statue.

Seeing Taremi, JB, and others quoting what he did for them over the last few weeks and just remember the controversies and oghdeh he had to go through to establish these guys into TM, which so many now take for granted....

[DR Strangemoosh]

Question to the four members who voted for Ivankovic or the 1 who voted for Daei - would you take them over Skocic at the moment?

[Leicester City]

Question to the four members who voted for Ivankovic or the 1 who voted for Daei - would you take them over Skocic at the moment?

Yes, 100%.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Kateb jan, no I do not have anything personal against CQ. In fact I was a staunch supporter until the Japan game. I do however dislike how so many of us are oblivious to facts. We let our emotions and tastes cloud our judgment and when someone does come along that speaks the truth we attack them.

You have an interesting form of "staunch" support, many months and in some cases over a year before the Japan game:

Is this staunch support, many months before the Japan game? Or am I being "oblivious to facts".

1) Yes 4 points is better than 1 point in a group but is that better than an Asian games Gold? Is it better than an Asian cup third? to me its not. Stats that matter are top 3 finishes, advancements, qualifications.

2) I agree with Kia. For now Branko has had the best results in Iran for a foreign coach. Hopefully CQ can change that with an Asian cup championship.

3) Not CQ. He had the worst finish with Iran in Asian cup in all of Iran's history. Even worst finish than the time we didnt advance from the groups.

4) Yes and this is what is so disappointing about CQ results. That so many coaches got us to the semis while he didnt. This is often the point I try to make that Iran's football level is high and the results obtained by CQ is what we are capable and have always achieved even with vatani coaches and a lot less investment. He simply has not delivered as his fans would like to claim.

(All from locked thread http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...l.-4&p=2605707 )

None of these matter if it does not yield results. CQ has under achieved with Iran.

For CQ to be considered successful in Iran for me he has to win the Asian cup (I would accept a finals appearance) and/or advance from group stage in Russia. Branko qualified us to the world cup also plus a third place finish at the Asian cup and an Asian games championship. In fact I think he should be expected to exceed and anything less for him is a failure, and don't tell me about qualifying back to back for the first time ever. He is the only coach afforded that opportunity.

So many posts in this thread, this is an interesting definition of "staunch support before the Japan game"

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?121369-QUEIROZ-vs-BRANCO-Discussion

I mean there is "staunch support" for someone, but it certainly ain't Queiroz:

Branko is the best foreign coach in Iran right now. At least results wise.

Schafer hala halaha bayad beravad taa be branko beresad. Branko has won championships in 4 different countries, he has won asian olympics gold, asian cup third place, continental cup, and a third place world cup finish with Croatia as an assistant, couple of waffs and repeat in ipl is imminent. Not to mention it should really be a three-peat since pp got robbed 3 years ago. He has done all this with all kinds of players, injuries, suspensions...etc. Results wise he is the best foreign coach in Iran for a long time. Even Cq with his great resume has not won anything of substance in Iran or UAE for that matter where Branko won a title.

"Kia is not the only one. Even Afshin Peyrovani praised Branko as one of the best he has worked with recently." http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...=1#post2605713

Although I did talk about Branko's international record as well the comparison I made between him and Branko was a follow up on my original comment about Branko being the best Foreign coach in Iran result wise. But now that you mention it I did check and Schafer has an African cup with Cameroon and a title in UAE. So lets not exaggerate and Branko still has won more.
Thanks.

Now THAT is staunch support of someone. You have a strange definition of "the truth"

[O-ZoNe]

I don' purport to support this. But interesting comparisons made between Skocic and CQ first WCQ with TM. Of course 2014 and 2022 are different eggs for a variety of reasons. But still a alot of work done by this user.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teammelli/comments/vbvn39/statistical_comparison_of_queiroz_2014_wc/

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[tooleh khers]

You have an interesting form of "staunch" support, many months and in some cases over a year before the Japan game:
Is this staunch support, many months before the Japan game? Or am I being "oblivious to facts".
(All from locked thread http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...l.-4&p=2605707 )
So many posts in this thread, this is an interesting definition of "staunch support before the Japan game"

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?121369-QUEIROZ-vs-BRANCO-Discussion

I mean there is "staunch support" for someone, but it certainly ain't Queiroz:
"Kia is not the only one. Even Afshin Peyrovani praised Branko as one of the best he has worked with recently." http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...=1#post2605713
Now THAT is staunch support of someone. You have a strange definition of "the truth"

So for the longest time you quoted me praising him saying "what happened" and now you quote me talking critical of him?! lol I bet you think you are very smart too. I stand by everything I said except some positive comments I made about him instilling discipline and .... As those positive comments proved to be too early and were proved wrong at the end. Branko is his ostad in results, stats and mind games. No matter how you bend it. Iran is not even the only country he was more successful in.

[Iran Doost]

We are going through a transition period.

From: Scared, defend at all cost, team. More concerned about not losing badly than winning
To: A team with the desire to win.

As with any major change in nature, it will be very choppy. But it is a necessary evil. Obviously, there are a lot of better coaches out there. But we absolutely have to go through this transition, and CQ is only good for what we used to be, not for what we want to become.

[O-ZoNe]

We are going through a transition period.

From: Scared, defend at all cost, team. More concerned about not losing badly than winning
To: A team with the desire to win.

As with any major change in nature, it will be very choppy. But it is a necessary evil. Obviously, there are a lot of better coaches out there. But we absolutely have to go through this transition, and CQ is only good for what we used to be, not for what we want to become.

Agreed. We know what CQ can deliver. 2 WC and and AC later. I definitely think he was the right man for the job in 2014. I was 50/50 in 2018 but gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Some folks are acting like they have a crystal ball and know already what will happen. I think Skocic earned this right. Let's go with it and support him. If we fire him the message we send to any future coach is welcome to instability and lack of support regardless of how well you do. If he believes TM can attack and win I am for it. Afterall these were comments by Carvajal after the Spain match.

“What Iran did is not football, it is disloyal,” Carvajal said. “On a tactical level, sitting deep, committing fouls is part of the game,” he explained, “but wasting time, faking injury, pretending you’re hurt, is bad for football and the referee has to cut that out. For me, it’s not football, it’s unfaithful [to the game], but that’s down to each individual and their conscience.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/21/sergio-ramos-diego-maradona-carlos-queiroz-iran

We criticize Arab teams for doing this against us. The game plan needs updating. Sitting back is key game plan for CQ everywhere he goes. We just don't have that defense today but we do have a potent offence. Afterall the best defense is a good offence!

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[inarsenewetrust]

Agreed. We know what CQ can deliver. 2 WC and and AC later. I definitely think he was the right man for the job in 2014. I was 50/50 in 2018 but gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Some folks are acting like they have a crystal ball and know already what will happen. I think Skocic earned this right. Let's go with it and support him. If he believes TM can attack and win I am for it. Afterall these were comments by Carvajal after the Spain match.
“What Iran did is not football, it is disloyal,” Carvajal said. “On a tactical level, sitting deep, committing fouls is part of the game,” he explained, “but wasting time, faking injury, pretending you’re hurt, is bad for football and the referee has to cut that out. For me, it’s not football, it’s unfaithful [to the game], but that’s down to each individual and their conscience.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/21/sergio-ramos-diego-maradona-carlos-queiroz-iran

We criticize Arab teams for doing this against us. The game plan needs updating. Sitting back is key game plan for CQ everywhere he goes. We just don't have that defense today but we do have a potent offence. Afterall the best defense is a good offence!
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Carvajal was an opponent who clearly had a tough time against our style of play. Its a bit of a weird opinion to cherry pick. You hear klopp say the same thing about every team he faces that employs a deep block.

Here is what a neutral, liverpool legend, didi hamann had to say about Iran:

[O-ZoNe]

Carvajal was an opponent who clearly had a tough time against our style of play. Its a bit of a weird opinion to cherry pick. You hear klopp say the same thing about every team he faces that employs a deep block.

Here is what a neutral, liverpool legend, didi hamann had to say about Iran:

Fair enough. But I am more or less talking about the sitting deep defensive style. I'm not necessarily endorsing Carvajals statements. He and Pique were attacking Cq for personal stuff after the match...but I do feel with this crop of players we cannot afford to sit deep. We will get exposed badly. We have firepower but not the brick wall anymore.

Notice my last paragraph I refer back to CQs defensive approach. Not the grass rolling etc part...

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[inarsenewetrust]

Fair enough. But I am more or less talking about the sitting deep defensive style. I'm not necessarily endorsing Carvajals statements. He and Pique were attacking Cq for personal stuff after the match...but I do feel with this crop of players we cannot afford to sit deep. We will get exposed badly. We have firepower but not the brick wall anymore.
Notice my last paragraph I refer back to CQs defensive approach. Not the grass rolling etc part...
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I share your sentiment that we have better offensive players than before. Having said that, the issue is the other end of the pitch with regards to why we must still employ deep block (And probably will) vs the level of opponents seen at WC.

Our current crop of DMs, CBs, Full backs have two fold problems. On one hand, if isolated 1v1 they are likely to lose their matchups vs this caliber of opponent, and on the other hand, our midfield especially lacks the technical quality to play out under high pressure to actually get the ball to our talented offensive guys in dangerous positions. Vs Algeria you saw somebody like nourollahi effectively acting as the fulcrum of the midfield. He miscontrols around 3/4 passes he receives under moderate press from algerian B team. How can we set our team up in an open manner knowing how many turnovers such players are likely to cause? Then keep in mind, our midfield is not only weak technically, but slow! When said turnover happens, do you really think a player like ezatolahi or even ebrahimi in his current age vs the world's best will be able to make up the ground to get the ball back before the opposition engages one of our defenders (Who like I said previously when ran at 1v1 with pace are out of their depth vs top opposition) and ultimately creates a goalscoring opportunity?
These are the questions that need to be objectively answered if you want to talk about abandoning a deep block.

IMO best game plan is to sit deep and try to regain some of that physicality and swarming mentality our team had under CQ, but when we get the ball focus on quick 1-2 touch combination plays that get the ball into feet of ghoddos or Taremi centrally, moharrami or amiri wide, ASAP. From there quick balls into and off of azmoun,Taremi who are now much more complete players and goalscorers than ever before in their careers seems the best way for us to harm the opposition.

This is basically what CQ tried to do just with better players in most positions now.

The day iran can play more expansive football on the world stage and obtain results is the day we develop 3-4 defenders/CDMs playing at level of azmoun and taremi in europe.

And even the above point may not be true. In 2006 we had the likes of Rahman Rezaei in Italy, Mahdavikia starring in Hamburg, midfield consisting of young Nekounam, Andranik, Shojaei, Karimi, Zandi, And Navidkia (the last 3 all in bundesliga)...and played a fairly open style in the world cup. Nothing came of it but embarassment and failure. 1 pt in a group with avg mexico side, Angola, and Portugal !

[DR Strangemoosh]

Carvajal was an opponent who clearly had a tough time against our style of play. Its a bit of a weird opinion to cherry pick. You hear klopp say the same thing about every team he faces that employs a deep block.

Here is what a neutral, liverpool legend, didi hamann had to say about Iran:

I met so many pundits/podcasters in Russia and Brazil who said the same. Iran basically became everyone's second team somehow, especially in Brazil!

It was a great experience seeing the respect they had for us.