AFC Asian Cup 2019 Quarter Final: China-Iran; Info, Updates & Live Updates (24.01.19)

[KC McElroy]

Is this in some parallel universe? Some alternate timeline?...
For god's sake just google the tournament. The only Arab team that took part in qualifiers for 1968 was Kuwait. And they had only been in AFC for 4 years at that point. .

I could say the same to you. For God's sake look up what classic means.

I addressed this question in length in my last post. Here's the condensed version for the last time: We had everything you mentioned, but better in both quality and quantity, and we were competing against countries with no professional leagues and much less organized national programs.
It's not too hard to win 3 cups in a row when none of the other teams have a professional league and two of the three tournaments are in your own backyard. That era was indeed golden for us, but not because our talent pool was so much better, but because our management and planning was superior to any other nation in Asia.

Our last friendly prior to the May 1968 Asian Championship was November of 1967. Prior to that our previous match was the Asian Games in 1966. Let me know what the name of our national pro league prior to the 1968 Asian Cup was and what camps were held before the championship.

[KC McElroy]

I didn't say i have foreign source but you said you have one so... be man grow one and post it .

I never said I would post it without you posting yours first. If you want an Iranian source I could give it to you on the spot though.

[FutbolGods]

I could say the same to you. For God's sake look up what traditional means.

What the hell does "traditional" even mean in this context?...
Kuwait was the ONLY Arab team that signed up for the 68 qualifiers. And they actually ended up withdrawing from them due to Israel's participation. These are facts. "Traditional" and "non-traditional" has nothing to do with it.

Our last friendly prior to the May 1968 Asian Championship was November of 1967. Prior to that our previous match was the Asian Games in 1966. Let me know what the name of our national pro league prior top the 1968 Asian Cup was and what camps were held before the championship.

Our "golden era" is not about one cup in 1968. It generally refers to the decade between 1968-78 when we won 3 Asian cups and qualified to two Olympics and one World Cup. Trying to reduce the discussion to what we did or didn't do in 66-68 is silly and such a blatant attempt at deflection it's kind of pathetic.

No one denies that we had better talent than most Asians back then. But give that same talent the kind of opponents we face today with the funding/organization gap completely reversed, and those 1-0 wins could easily go the other way. Especially if the tournaments aren't at home.

It's ok to concede a point in online arguments. No one will think less of you. Being consistently stubborn in face of facts is far more embarrassing than being wrong now and then.

[milad_b]

I never said I would post it without you posting yours first. If you want an Iranian source I could give it to you on the spot though.

i thought sharif uni students are suppose to be clever ! I never said that i have a foreign source or will be posting a foreign source. lol but you obviously said you have a foreign source. lol khod dargiri daria ?

[OFFSIDE_1]

Your comparison is flawed as you are missing a lot of our great players from the 70s. If you knew about our players back then you wouldn't say their is a big gap in talent. You would have said instead that there is somewhat of a gap in talent although in favor of the 70s generation. I could say the same regarding your comparison of opponents then and now.
Can I ask your age? The reason being many (young) TM fans simply discount anything prior to November 1997 as "it never happened". One cannot compare the two generations without knowing them both.

Let's just say I knew about those players and actually saw them play, and rest assured, there was a big gap :-). I actually saw them play in Amjadieh, and in Aryamehr in person. The matchups against Israel go before my time, but I clearly remember our games against Korea, Australia and Saudi Arabia.

Also, keep in mind that our players back then had other jobs on the side. The entire PAS team had jobs in the local kalantari :-) . Our only legionnaire, Adelkhani, was nicknamed "sageh zardeh almani" because he played in a 3rd division in Germany and was famous for his "german kicks". Which other players am I missing ? Sadeghi ? Nazari ? Rashidi ? Iranpak ? Zadmehr ? Kashani, Ashtiani?

Yes, Hejazi and Ghelichkhani were great, but again those players never stepped foot outside of Iran and never saw their talent grow. So yes, if you take the TM side today, they would beat the 70's national teams with ease. You just cannot compare players with experience from La Liga, Bundesliga and the EPL to players from jameh takhteh jamshid.

and just to put things into perspective, the Japan did not have a professional league in the 70's or 80's, and Saudi Arabia did not have grassfields in the 70's or 80's. Fast forward to 2019, and see how much those 2 teams alone have improved

[FutbolGods]

It can't be made simpler than this:

In the 70s we had talented players going up against less talented players from rival countries with inferior football organization.

Today we have talented players going up against players of similar talent, from rival countries whose funding and management is superior to ours often by an embarrassing margin.

[KC McElroy]

What the hell does "traditional" even mean in this context?...
Kuwait was the ONLY Arab team that signed up for the 68 qualifiers. And they actually ended up withdrawing from them due to Israel's participation. These are facts. "Traditional" and "non-traditional" has nothing to do with it.
Our "golden era" is not about one cup in 1968. It generally refers to the decade between 1968-78 when we won 3 Asian cups and qualified to two Olympics and one World Cup. Trying to reduce the discussion to what we did or didn't do in 66-68 is silly and such a blatant attempt at deflection it's kind of pathetic.
No one denies that we had better talent than most Asians back then. But give that same talent the kind of opponents we face today with the funding/organization gap completely reversed, and those 1-0 wins could easily go the other way. Especially if the tournaments aren't at home.
It's ok to concede a point in online arguments. No one will think less of you. Being consistently stubborn in face of facts is far more embarrassing than being wrong now and then.

We (or rather you) were specifically talking about the 1968 Cup. See below. By traditional I meant classic which is the word you had used. Our classic rival finished third in its qualifying group.

Our classic rival was ABSENT in 1968.
It did not take part in qualifiers.

Again I ask: Let me know what the name of our national pro league prior to the 1968 Asian Cup was and what camps were held before the championship. It's ok if you answer is we didn't have any of that compared to today (which we do) which would negate your comment below. We already determined we didn't have the friendlies.

This includes everything from investing in organized youth programs to providing logistics and infrastructure beyond anything available to our rivals at the time, to organizing friendlies we can only dream about today.

[KC McElroy]

i thought sharif uni students are suppose to be clever ! I never said that i have a foreign source or will be posting a foreign source. lol but you obviously said you have a foreign source. lol khod dargiri daria ?

You will receive your answer in 11+ days.

[KC McElroy]

Let's just say I knew about those players and actually saw them play, and rest assured, there was a big gap :-). I actually saw them play in Amjadieh, and in Aryamehr in person. The matchups against Israel go before my time, but I clearly remember our games against Korea, Australia and Saudi Arabia.

Also, keep in mind that our players back then had other jobs on the side. The entire PAS team had jobs in the local kalantari :-) . Our only legionnaire, Adelkhani, was nicknamed "sageh zardeh almani" because he played in a 3rd division in Germany and was famous for his "german kicks". Which other players am I missing ? Sadeghi ? Nazari ? Rashidi ? Iranpak ? Zadmehr ? Kashani, Ashtiani?

Yes, Hejazi and Ghelichkhani were great, but again those players never stepped foot outside of Iran and never saw their talent grow. So yes, if you take the TM side today, they would beat the 70's national teams with ease. You just cannot compare players with experience from La Liga, Bundesliga and the EPL to players from jameh takhteh jamshid.

and just to put things into perspective, the Japan did not have a professional league in the 70's or 80's, and Saudi Arabia did not have grassfields in the 70's or 80's. Fast forward to 2019, and see how much those 2 teams alone have improved

It doesn't matter if they stepped outside of Iran or not. If you have an unbiased view of the TM of that time then the comparison is very straight forward (with the assumption that we are all familiar with the current TM).
Instead of a vague answer, can you tell me your age?

[milad_b]

You will receive your answer in 11+ days.

You already got your answer. Keep waiting Beghole ghadimia Bokhor ta barat biaran

[KC McElroy]

You already got your answer. Keep waiting Beghole ghadimia Bokhor ta barat biaran

I'm sure I will keep waiting as I know you won't be able to produce a any source other than Iranian media for your "news". Also 4 out of 32 is majority.

[milad_b]

I'm sure I will keep waiting as I know you won't be able to produce a any source other than Iranian media for your "news". Also 4 out of 32 is majority.

Yea but at least i have iranian source you don't even have that.

Also 5 out of 33 is majority too.

[KC McElroy]

Yea but at least i have iranian source you don't even have that.

Also 5 out of 33 is majority too.

Thanks for that comment. You conceded.

[FutbolGods]

We (or rather you) were specifically talking about the 1968 Cup. See below. By traditional I meant classic which is the word you had used. Our classic rival finished third in its qualifying group.

In that post you're referring to I mentioned playing the AC final against Kuwait in 76, so it was pretty clear my general points were about the 68-78 era, not just the 68 AC.

And this is where I mentioned the "classic rival":
We joined AFC in 1954. Kuwait which was THE Asian Arab power in the 70s didn't even join till 1964. Iraq joined in 1970. Saudis in 72. The team we consider our "classic rival" today wasn't even part of the AFC when we won our first Asian Cup!

It's pretty clear I was referring to Saudi Arabia. We have a rivalry with them that started around 35 years ago. By any objective criteria they're a classic rival next to South Korea, except there is an emotional, nationalistic element to the Saudi rivalry that makes it a lot more critical for many of us, including myself. If your point was that only our rivalry with SK should qualify as "classic", you should have just come out and stated your opinion, instead of trying to be cute and cryptic about it.

Again I ask: Let me know what the name of our national pro league prior to the 1968 Asian Cup was and what camps were held before the championship. It's ok if you answer is we didn't have any of that compared to today (which we do) which would negate your comment below. We already determined we didn't have the friendlies.

Having already established that my points weren't simply about the 68 cup, I'll still go ahead and address this. Whether or not we had friendlies, we had something called home field advantage. That close 2-1 final game against Israel could have easily gone the other way if it was played in Tel Aviv instead of Tehran. There is no way to downplay the fact that 2 out of the 3 AC wins in our golden era were on home turf.

Having a professional league takes a certain level of infrastructure and organization. The fact that we were in a position to start ours 10 years before Korea's and 20 years before Japan's tells you a lot about the organization gap between us and our competition even before our league was established. A low tier Saudi club today has better facilities and a higher budget than our elite clubs. The same Saudis didn't even have standard stadiums in the 1970s! The biggest pains in the ass for us since the end of that golden era have been Arab teams. And most of them except Kuwait hadn't even joined AFC when our golden era started.

The only way all this can sound meaningless to someone is if they're dense or so insecure they'd rather die than concede an argument online!

[KC McElroy]

In that post you're referring to I mentioned playing the AC final against Kuwait in 76, so it was pretty clear my general points were about the 68-78 era, not just the 68 AC.
And this is where I mentioned the "classic rival":
We joined AFC in 1954. Kuwait which was THE Asian Arab power in the 70s didn't even join till 1964. Iraq joined in 1970. Saudis in 72. The team we consider our "classic rival" today wasn't even part of the AFC when we won our first Asian Cup!
It's pretty clear I was referring to Saudi Arabia. We have a rivalry with them that started around 35 years ago. By any objective criteria they're a classic rival next to South Korea, except there is an emotional, nationalistic element to the Saudi rivalry that makes it a lot more critical for many of us, including myself. If your point was that only our rivalry with SK should qualify as "classic", you should have just come out and stated your opinion, instead of trying to be cute and cryptic about it.
Having already established that my points weren't simply about the 68 cup, I'll still go ahead and address this. Whether or not we had friendlies, we had something called home field advantage. That close 2-1 final game against Israel could have easily gone the other way if it was played in Tel Aviv instead of Tehran. There is no way to downplay the fact that 2 out of the 3 AC wins in our golden era were on home turf.
Having a professional league takes a certain level of infrastructure and organization. The fact that we were in a position to start ours 10 years before Korea's and 20 years before Japan's tells you a lot about the organization gap between us and our competition even before our league was established. A low tier Saudi club today has better facilities and a higher budget than our elite clubs. The same Saudis didn't even have standard stadiums in the 1970s! The biggest pains in the ass for us since the end of that golden era have been Arab teams. And most of them except Kuwait hadn't even joined AFC when our golden era started.
The only way all this can sound meaningless to someone is if they're dense or so insecure they'd rather die than concede an argument online!

Let me know what is unclear about which specific tournament you are referring to here (besides you not knowing who is actually considered our classic rival):

Our classic rival was ABSENT in 1968.

By your answer to my questions above I take it you acknowledge that we had no national pro league and no camps prior to the 1968 tournament. Correct?