Is anyone really surprised at the failure of Estil Azin

[Ali Chicago]

Ghorbanat Bahram Jaan, thanks for the clarification.

Ali jaan....God Bless you........I defenetly agree with you and added......
I coded from your post that ;
((((Originally Posted by Ali Chicago
Kharabi choonh ke az haad bogzaard Aabad meegardad.
My only point was privatization without proper framework can lead to disaster.)))))
And I stated;
((( There is a very good chance, if we ever give in to the privetization,( perhaps in future democratic governement ).......there will be a long period of failier !!)))))...which is in line with your points....
.
I how ever, Concluded and added that the transfer could be less painful..if we take lessons from Some east European Models...I hope you read and noticed that part.
.

[zzgloo]

Thanks for your comments. I am still not clear would you share my concern or think despite the potential dangers still the privatization without the legal, managerial framework is the way to go?

Ali jaan....God Bless you........I defenetly agree with you and added......
I coded from your post that ;
((((Originally Posted by Ali Chicago
Kharabi choonh ke az haad bogzaard Aabad meegardad.
My only point was privatization without proper framework can lead to disaster.)))))
And I stated;
((( There is a very good chance, if we ever give in to the privetization,( perhaps in future democratic governement ).......there will be a long period of failier !!)))))...which is in line with your points....
.
I how ever, Concluded and added that the transfer could be less painful..if we take lessons from Some east European Models...I hope you read and noticed that part.

.

[Martin-Reza]

^ Well, I'm not so sure. The different club owners (state, steel & oil companies, car manufacturers or people like Hedayati) pump loads of money into the clubs which makes them liquid. With that money they buy many players from not so fortunate clubs who hereby are also consolidated.

Of course that has little to do with proper business, but I think this way the clubs are mostly financially in a good situation.

[maij]

Talking about privatization.

Anyone here thinks that any of the league clubs actually makes money or break even ?

Of course , with the lack of balance sheet and proper accounting , it is impossible to confirm that , but my wild guess that every single team in the Pro league is losing money.

[Ali Chicago]

Thanks for your comments. I am still not clear would you share my concern or think despite the potential dangers still the privatization without the legal, managerial framework is the way to go?

There is a very good chance, if we ever give in to the privetization,( perhaps in future democratic governement ).......there will be a long period of failier !!
While it is true the huge fan base we have is something positive,....but what we are going to do with :
1- Lack of culture in management.
2-People's Over expectation from Governement.
3-Lack of work ethics in our culture.
4-Non-cunsuming culture.
5-Lack of infuerstucture.
6-Non proffesional work force.
7-Lack of Laws protecting private ownership.
..................................
Privetization in Football has direct relation to " Free market economy ";
After the dismantling the socialist system in the east block..There were a Rush by Eastern block countries toward " Free market "......and there were different schools of thoughts......
A= Mixture of Governement & private & forign investement ...( Yuguslayia )
B= Nationalism,and home grown Private sector ..( Russia )
C= Total Exclusive Forign Investement ,...( east Germany).
D= " Shock theropy ",sudden all out openness to free market & forign investement...( Poland )
.............
The " Shock theropy " of Poland ,was the fastest and the most painful .
.............
I personaly believe,our future will be similar to " Russia's " approach.
.............
While, Steel Azin " TRY ", was a naive, inapproprate investement and a major failier....yet, it was and is a good learning experince, and a little step forward,that we had to have .
.

[St_Mark]

Yes I am surprised how fast they become irrelevant. I did not expect them to be last team and assure relegation.
As it stand no private club will survive in long run given existing football structure and culture in Iran. Esteghl Ahwaz tried but failed and currently fighting relegation to second division.
For private sector its all about money and benefits, they may succeed for a while but without benefits they lose interest.
For private club to succeed business department should be above technical department in organization chart.
EA is Hedayati'e pipe dream otherwise he deal with failure and start over in Azadegan with better planning if money is not important to him as he claims. Having Football club is a vessel for him and football just a “material”
===============================

“If one repairs his vessel with another’s materials:
the property of vessel remains in him :
but if he builds the vessel from the very keel
with materials of another the vessel belong to
the ownership of material…”
Corpus Juris

[zzgloo]

Kharabi choonh ke az haad bogzaard Aabad meegardad.
My only point was privatization without proper framework can lead to disaster. At least so far we are 2 for 2.

There is a very good chance, if we ever give in to the privetization,( perhaps in future democratic governement ).......there will be a long period of failier !!
While it is true the huge fan base we have is something positive,....but what we are going to do with :
1- Lack of culture in management.
2-People's Over expectation from Governement.
3-Lack of work ethics in our culture.
4-Non-cunsuming culture.
5-Lack of infuerstucture.
6-Non proffesional work force.
7-Lack of Laws protecting private ownership.
..................................
Privetization in Football has direct relation to " Free market economy ";
After the dismantling the socialist system in the east block..There were a Rush by Eastern block countries toward " Free market "......and there were different schools of thoughts......
A= Mixture of Governement & private & forign investement ...( Yuguslayia )
B= Nationalism,and home grown Private sector ..( Russia )
C= Total Exclusive Forign Investement ,...( east Germany).
D= " Shock theropy ",sudden all out openness to free market & forign investement...( Poland )
.............
The " Shock theropy " of Poland ,was the fastest and the most painful .
.............
I personaly believe,our future will be similar to " Russia's " approach.
.............
While, Steel Azin " TRY ", was a naive, inapproprate investement and a major failier....yet, it was and is a good learning experince, and a little step forward,that we had to have .




.

[Kavian]

I am not really surprised at anything coming from our football!

They can dissolve the entire pro league over night never mind a team as poorly managed as Esteel Azin. All you need is Rahbar getting up one morning remembring a dream with imam zaman who told him this football serves the interestes of zionists!!

[Ali Chicago]

Totally agree Majid Jaan. Your post made me think I need to clairfy, I am by no means agaisnt privatization in our football, hell it can't get that much worst from current situation after all.
As they say in Farsi Poetry

Kharabi choonh ke az haad bogzaard Aabad meegardad.

My only point was privatization without proper framework can lead to disaster. At least so far we are 2 for 2.

Ali Jan.

Thank you fro bringing up this issue.

First , let me say this: I do not think that privatization is the cure for all the problems in Iran's football , but it is definitely a positive step towards advancing football and its management system. Privatization must have strict rules like in England & Germany for example.

A Billionaire buying a club is a two edge sword , he could easily lose interest , withdraw financial support and leave the club in tatters. On the other hand he could inject money like there is no tomorrow. Money that a club never even dreamed that they can generate based on commercial revenue (including TV broadcast) and match tickets (classic example =Chelsea).

Hedayati's case was intriguing for me. I opened several threads about him and steel Azin questioning his motive. I personally think that he DOES have some passion for football and he REALLY wants to succeed by winning a trophy with his club. The problem is , he is a poor manager in football terms.

So , we have two failures out of 2 ( 3 out of 3 if you count Nassej Mazandaran) in privatization in Iran. That is alarming , but does that mean it is the end of it? Certainly not.

If the federation or STB are organized , they need to establish the rules for privatization,. They do not need to re-invent the wheel , all the materials and documentations are available or they can hire management consultants to organize and produce proper documentation. But is IFF and STB capable and willing to initiate such major project? I doubt it as there is also some political aspect and the government obsessive fear of unfriendly people controlling the masses in Perspolis and Esteghlal is always a deciding factor.

In a casual conversation with some of my Iranian media buddies in Doha last January , the topic of privatization came up. I commented on Ahmadinejad's statement a few months back about expediting the steps to Privatize SS and PP. One of the journalist said that AN is genuine in this respect , but there are other forces more powerful than him , who are not as enthusiastic as Mr. President to privatize these two. So , he was basically asked to hold his horses and slow down a bit !


I agree that the omens are not very good for privatization in Iran's football at the moment , but it does not necessarily mean it will not work. Privatization should not be confined to a single one or two persons ownership of a club, It should really be a company with multiple ownership and shareholders run on commercial basis including establishment of general assembly , voting , balance sheet ...etc.

[maij]

The really dangerous thing IMHO is the fact that many of us on PFDC think privatization is the magic bullet for our football. Privatization in long run in a country where laws mean something is good, but in current Iran at best attracts people with good intention but no management or long term vision (like Hedayati or Shafizadeh brothers) or at worst Iranian version of MAFIA.

Ali Jan.

Thank you fro bringing up this issue.

First , let me say this: I do not think that privatization is the cure for all the problems in Iran's football , but it is definitely a positive step towards advancing football and its management system. Privatization must have strict rules like in England & Germany for example.

A Billionaire buying a club is a two edge sword , he could easily lose interest , withdraw financial support and leave the club in tatters. On the other hand he could inject money like there is no tomorrow. Money that a club never even dreamed that they can generate based on commercial revenue (including TV broadcast) and match tickets (classic example =Chelsea).

Hedayati's case was intriguing for me. I opened several threads about him and steel Azin questioning his motive. I personally think that he DOES have some passion for football and he REALLY wants to succeed by winning a trophy with his club. The problem is , he is a poor manager in football terms.

So , we have two failures out of 2 ( 3 out of 3 if you count Nassej Mazandaran) in privatization in Iran. That is alarming , but does that mean it is the end of it? Certainly not.

If the federation or STB are organized , they need to establish the rules for privatization,. They do not need to re-invent the wheel , all the materials and documentations are available or they can hire management consultants to organize and produce proper documentation. But is IFF and STB capable and willing to initiate such major project? I doubt it as there is also some political aspect and the government obsessive fear of unfriendly people controlling the masses in Perspolis and Esteghlal is always a deciding factor.

In a casual conversation with some of my Iranian media buddies in Doha last January , the topic of privatization came up. I commented on Ahmadinejad's statement a few months back about expediting the steps to Privatize SS and PP. One of the journalist said that AN is genuine in this respect , but there are other forces more powerful than him , who are not as enthusiastic as Mr. President to privatize these two. So , he was basically asked to hold his horses and slow down a bit !


I agree that the omens are not very good for privatization in Iran's football at the moment , but it does not necessarily mean it will not work. Privatization should not be confined to a single one or two persons ownership of a club, It should really be a company with multiple ownership and shareholders run on commercial basis including establishment of general assembly , voting , balance sheet ...etc.

[Ali Chicago]

Every 5 years some rich fool comes along and "invests in Iranian" football.
Before Hedayati the last guy to try this was Shafiezadeh in Esteghlal Ahvaz. In the end his team was relegated and he left with his head down and no legacy.
Why do our fans and reporters think a man who only buys players with a history of attitude problems, who doesn't invest a cent in club infrastructure, that doesn't have a decent youth team or even their own field to practice on.
Someone who actually cares about football would know that football is a very long term investment.
Are these guys actually thinking about making money? Even in England the rich owners like Abrahamovic spends freely because he loves the team and wants them to win, not because he is expecting a return.
This Estil Azin team was one of the biggest jokes in Iranian football in the past 20 years.
Give me a private (or even government) team with its own field, youth teams, and real management and I'll support them any day over half the garbage we have in IPL (Persian Gulf Cup).

Actually Hedayati tried to buy a complex for Esteel. He invested a lot of money, but success depends on many many factor (good plan, good judgement, good executive team to execute the plan, good personnel (coaches, players), patience (unlike Esteel in which after second year promotion to the IPL, they tried for championship).

I am not surprised to see Esteel Azin failure when I see the behavior of one of the richest man in Iran (latest was announcing the club annulment). But then again we are talking about Iran (where regime forces good people to flee Iran, impose a self exile on them or throw them in Jail) and whoever is a kiss-arse is in the ruling class.

The really dangerous thing IMHO is the fact that many of us on PFDC think privatization is the magic bullet for our football. Privatization in long run in a country where laws mean something is good, but in current Iran at best attracts people with good intention but no management or long term vision (like Hedayati or Shafizadeh brothers) or at worst Iranian version of MAFIA.

[zzgloo]

^ ZZ zoon,

Let me make some thing clear here. These people don't buy these clubs to do business. They buy them to make a name.

Their money comes from some where else. They buy the biggest boat, biggest mansion, biggest airplane, now they buy football club as well. If you look at the clubs, I guess the only profitable club is Bayern, the rest of them are in deep trouble.

I don't know if you heard about the new rule in champion league that only clubs with positive balance can play. This rule will be implemented in few years (maybe even sooner)....You know why they put such a rule? Bcz of big boys like Hedaiati and those princes who make easy money.

So, don't even try to understand how they can justify financially to buy a club.

Cheers

Haji e Aziz,
May be, you are right.......or shall I say...you are more right than I am......
I agree,that there are other agendas that may be at work...
1- advocating thier names.
2-legitimizing thier rich status.
3-Money laudry.
.......................some of it reminds of the " Chiquita " Bannana compay !!from Columbia !!!....whose company only waists money to be a front for thier Drug cartel money transfer.......
yet, I still can not believe, they wish to fail !, or lose money, or having to close doors for good, or be known as failiers.
In case of " Chiquita Bannana ", they do not care if they lose money......but, it appears, Hedayati Does !.....and wants to close the club........so, that by itself,may indicate,that things did not go as he wanted to.

[Hajagha]

^ ZZ zoon,

Let me make some thing clear here. These people don't buy these clubs to do business. They buy them to make a name.

Their money comes from some where else. They buy the biggest boat, biggest mansion, biggest airplane, now they buy football club as well. If you look at the clubs, I guess the only profitable club is Bayern, the rest of them are in deep trouble.

I don't know if you heard about the new rule in champion league that only clubs with positive balance can play. This rule will be implemented in few years (maybe even sooner)....You know why they put such a rule? Bcz of big boys like Hedaiati and those princes who make easy money.

So, don't even try to understand how they can justify financially to buy a club.

Cheers

[zzgloo]

^ ZZ joon, are you trying to tell me Russia is better place than Iran in this regard?

The guy is biggest OIL mafia in the world and every one knows it.

We should separate one thing here. Since they are making their money not very transparent, it doesn't mean that they are STUPID and have no idea how business and money works.

These people may make some money that we can not even imagine. They wanna show it. I just finish watching ManU vs ManC where another TOY, ManC, beat ManU in his turf.

So, what is the difference between the action of Dubai Prince who bought ManC and Hedaiati's buying Steel-Azin? Nothing in my book. The first one tried at home with less reward then moved out, the second one is trying home now and may move out too.

Cheers.

I understand your side of the issue......
Yet, What Hedayati or the shaikh who bought Man-c should understand...is that when they Buy a Football club......perameters change !!
Football, is an international phenamyna....it has its own roles and system......
What Hedayati, knew was doing business in Commodety style....that is , buying something,and immidiatly selling it...and make easy unattached profit.......which is the style of business in IRAN, with a little help from inside connection,and little bit of bribery.......
it all works in " Chucks ".......it is not business growth or production base or marketing research,or avangard management,etc,etc......,and partcicularly FAN sensetive business !!!
Such style, works only in corrupt system and only on " Commodety purchasing " style.........
Defenetly not, on a production sensetive, people related,internationaly monitored business,with unique variables, such as " Football " !!!
....
We had a Guy here in our Town , (Atlanta,Ga),by the name of Arthur Blank....he used own and develope " Home depot "...and later bought the Atlanta falcons NFL football team........he did misrebly the first 5 years....untill he brought in " Football people ", and started from scratch, by hiring a manager whose specialty was in drafting players,and building from scratch,and eveloping fan base,etc,etc..........
Unlike what some other successful business people such as the owner of washington redskins did....who failed in owning football team,because he did not understand the difference..and just threw more money at problems,and expecting results.
he was and is a good business man...but, he found out, selling hardware was different than owning a Football team.

[Hajagha]

^ ZZ joon, are you trying to tell me Russia is better place than Iran in this regard?

The guy is biggest OIL mafia in the world and every one knows it.

We should separate one thing here. Since they are making their money not very transparent, it doesn't mean that they are STUPID and have no idea how business and money works.

These people may make some money that we can not even imagine. They wanna show it. I just finish watching ManU vs ManC where another TOY, ManC, beat ManU in his turf.

So, what is the difference between the action of Dubai Prince who bought ManC and Hedaiati's buying Steel-Azin? Nothing in my book. The first one tried at home with less reward then moved out, the second one is trying home now and may move out too.

Cheers.