Positives in Ghotbi's Team!

[Hajagha]

Haji be honest: who paid you and how much did they pay fir you to post that? And where can I sign up for it?

PM me your credit card number for sign up.

[maij]

OH , I almost forgot.

There was something positive about Ghotbi himself.

Out of the recent crop of coaches , his demeanor and approach to the media was exceptional. The only other coach who was smart in public and as good was indeed Branko Ivankovic. I believe Ghotbi has set a high standard for future Team Melli Ghotbi in how to behave in public , how to speak to the media and how to conduct themselves in front of the fans. He is one calm , cool and collected person oozing with confidence , which was definitely enhanced his players confidence as well.

I am not concerned with what was behind the scene or how he got the job , which is irrelevant to this discussion, in public it is very difficult to fault the guy.

[zzgloo]

There is one more positive aspect to Ghotbi.......which may be his most valuable one...

He pissed off the majority of Domestic coaches TREMENDOUSLY !!!

the thought,that a " Foofool " , Tehran-geles guy, comes in without ever having playing football experince,and little coaching........comes in, takes the most valuable jobs ...first With Perspolise...and wins the championship, and then TM,with a respectable results......,is absolutly hurtful !!!

When Parviz mazloomi,one of many domestic coaches who hated Ghotbi, said even after all is done,and Ghotbi had left to japan, :
" If Ghotbi ever succeed in Japan, I will stop coaching "......speaks, volume,as the level of " Being highly Pissed Off " !!!

In a way, any small credit to Ghotbi,was seen and felt as a sign of failier of domestic coaching.



.

[Doctor DOOM]

to all those who try to scare ppl in their desperate attempt to defend gtbi by saying had we not behaved liked frightened little mice we could have conceded 3-4 goals ... let me say one thing (although I know it wont budge you ppl since the more you're proven wrong with specific and to-the-point examples and discussion, the more you resist ):

1- aside from the fact that this "scary scenario" is pure conjecture, it's not even within the realm of probability or possibility.
to go back to a time that korea has defeated us by more than a single goal margin, you have to travel back to 1993. (do the math: 2011-1993 ) .... while in the meantime, Iran has had 4 wins (vs. 2/3 of korea) with a few of them with more than 1 goal margin

so it is safe to say the worst case scenario would be the very same result that eventually came about: losing by a solitary goal's difference.

2- but since we're cooking up stuff, as much as you ppl desperately want to scare ppl, I say if we had shown a little bit of spine and attacked (like we did when it was too little, too late - between minutes 107-120) we would have won the game in regulation time ... probably by more than a single goal margin.

I see a lot of opinion-based spin and also spin-based opinion. but when one gets down to the nitty gritty, the specifics (as compared to vague generalizations) and the mechanics of the game, and IF one is fair, one will see what could have been the possibility or even the probability.
all this would have been a bit less tragic or indigestible if we had a coach like many others who did not claim "he knew korea like the back of his hand". but to use this line to get the job, and then in all 3 meetings get nearly EVERYTHING WRONG (from reading the korean team and their tactics, weaknesses & strengths to his own team selection, formation, game plan, tactics, subs, ...), then it makes it even more ridiculous to see defense of this little man.



anyway. I doubt I can add anything more than what I have already in these 2-3 threads. the rest is up to the readers and their conscience. but I hope we can stop being so scared of everything in life. you dont get the true taste of life if fear is mixed with everything we do.

hopefully CQ can dig us out of this slump.
especially our olympics team

[Hajagha]

DD just before saying this:

but I hope we can stop being so scared of everything in life. you dont get the true taste of life if fear is mixed with everything we do.

[persian-eagle-13]

so with all these positive things you guys are saying we should bring him back

[Doctor DOOM]

DD just before saying this:

lol. nice one


I see your extreme example and raise you a very regular, rudimentary one that drives the point home:
have you ever used one of these (below)?
ever sat in one of these contracptions?



Now imagine if EVERYONE was scared to build or get into something solid (made of wood and later on, actual metal ) on the whimsical idea that it may actually fly like a bird. imagine in such a world where we'd be now.
thank god not everyone was limited in their ambitions and standards.
case closed.



btw, I feel quite sorry for ppl who were desperately trying to force feed us the jaundiced view of Iran's inferiority to korea and in the middle of it all the 20th placed wolverhamptions beats the 1st team (arguably among the top 5 teams of the world) in their league with all their superstars!!!
you may read between the lines yourselves

[maij]

Bahram agha , I really do not see how Ghotbi pissing off local Iranian coaches for whatsoever reason , can be consider a positive attribute or something to brag about ??

Are you suggesting that anyone who is pissing off , discouraging , bad-mouthing or humiliating local Iranian coaches is considered as wise , positive and knowledgeable person ?

I don't quite get your point...or maybe I am missing something in your statement.

In any case, I believe that nations , who want to be anything or something in sport, have to ultimately depend on their national resources and maintain sense of pride and patriotism. Of course , there are many countries who want to BUY success. The Persian Gulf Arab sheikdoms are typical examples , and Qatar is an extreme example. I don't think there was 3 or 5 real Qatari's in the team that played in Asian Cup.

I am really glad that Iran has not gone this way.

[zzgloo]

Bahram agha , I really do not see how Ghotbi pissing off local Iranian coaches for whatsoever reason , can be consider a positive attribute or something to brag about ??

Are you suggesting that anyone who is pissing off , discouraging , bad-mouthing or humiliating local Iranian coaches is considered as wise , positive and knowledgeable person ?

I don't quite get your point...or maybe I am missing something in your statement.

In any case, I believe that nations , who want to be anything or something in sport, have to ultimately depend on their national resources and maintain sense of pride and patriotism. Of course , there are many countries who want to BUY success. The Persian Gulf Arab sheikdoms are typical examples , and Qatar is an extreme example. I don't think there was 3 or 5 real Qatari's in the team that played in Asian Cup.

I am really glad that Iran has not gone this way.

Majid e aziz....
Yes, you are missing something in my post....
I have often ,in many threads, said, and believe, among all short comings of our football, two things stand out the most.....the low class of domestic coaching, and jelouse,over critical culture.........
At no point,I said Ghotbi did something to piss any body off, but, it is the nature of a jelouse incompetant coaching , ( Not all, I always have admired likes of jallali,etc, ).......
The whole mass ganging up against Ghotbi by TM players, and by people , comes from this jelousy of the Domestic coaches...who has taken Ghotbi's entree to our football as slap on thier faces......
It is true, criticizing had always existed, but not to this extended,unnanimous gang banging.....with very high hatred...from massoud moeinee to Mazloomi, to Daei, to Ghalenoee, to hejazi, to ......
and to me, when ever, the forces of imcompetance, and arrogance ,who had very little qualification of its own , gets pissed off, by another who is similarly unqualified, It is " Positive "....
It is positive, to people to see and understand thier true nature, ..it is positive for people to realize thier incompetance......that even " Ghotbi " with little to no qualification, comes and does better.......speaks valume as of thier internal coaching incompetance, and " Subsedized " Coaching...
It is indeed positive, to understand the true capabilities of Domestic coachings.
Aside from recent success of Abrahimzadeh...our doomestic coaches have always failed in international areanas........the reason for our players running 7 to 8 kilometer in a game, instead of 14 kilometer for japanease.? europeans...all come from Domestic coaching.....

And if your point, that by pissing off Domestic coaches, we can not hope for domestic improvement.............I totaly disagree.....how els, would people and coaches should know, that coaches need to get thier act together,unless there is a push !

[maij]

Bahram jan, it seems that I did not misunderstand you at all in the first place.

One thing is for certain , regardless to our opinion of a person. If a guy has so much opposition , enemy , opponents (call it what you want) then you bet your last dollar that he has committed some sin ( not literally , of course). If there is a profession that is directly related to the public opinion like a coach , and he is so unpopular , then once again it means that he has NOT done a good job either technically or in the PR department.

I disagree with you on this one. I would not slaughter a whole bunch of people for one person's sake. If I dare to relate this issue to a current event, it is similar to the Egyptian situation. A few minority is sacrificing the affair of majority just to keep one tyrant named Hosny Mobarak in power.

[zzgloo]

Majid Jaan....thanks for the responce, ..I read your post, and I understand it.
" Slaughter of whole bunch of people for one person's sake "...is a little too extreem......
I simply, meant, The Domestic coaches are weak,and the main cause of us falling behind ...they all ( 90 % ) keep insisting TM should use Domestic coaches.....yet,they are the main reason for our " slow ", " Unprofessional " football...with lots of pointing at " Others " !! ...I beileved " Ghotbi " more than any other " Forign coach " showed thier weakness,and " Pissed them off ".....as thier lower standards could have been easier to justify compare to " Forign coaches !...but with Ghotbi, and his shaky qualifications, ...The weakness of our Domestic coaches were better exposed !
I would love to support local talents,and talented domestic coaches....but, what I mostly see, are a too many unqualified, no coaching licence,even low educated, domestic coaches ( Not all of them ), that keep playing a musical chair from one club to another,without any real push for excellence !

I like Dr.Z,and Jallali,Ebrahimzadeh,or even our Human afazelli type coaches...but not much more..that could help lead our football toward today's football.

[maij]

I believe you are mixing two issues , Agha Bahram.

The technical abilities of the Iranian coaches versus their demeanor and public attitude.


On the first issue , technical ability , you have mentioned that the Iranian coaches are weak & unprofessional hence the poor results and standard of Iranian football. I personally will not allow myself to comment on such a vast issues, mainly because I do not have enough knowledge about them and have not worked closely with Iranian coaches or observed their work closely to form an opinion. But the most importantly , I am just a fan , Not qualified to judge on how other coaches perform.

On the second issue , however which is demeanor and attitude in public , I have the knowledge to form an opinion. I do agree with you that the Iranian coaches lack professional attitude and many of their statements to the press and some live comments on TV are embarrassing to say the least and falls far short of acceptable level of professional conduct. This lame attitude , however , is not isolated to the Iranian coaches only , it is common against the whole system and singling out the Iranian coaches for such criticism is simply unfair and unjust.


However , although Ghotbi was far better in this department , he was not exactly an angel nor perfect. He had his own bloopers as well and I really do not think he left an impression on the Iranian coaches on how to behave. It is a petty.

[maij]

While we are at the subject of Ghotbi , here is his record and stats with Tam Melli.


Afshin Ghotbi (USA)

First match: 01-Apr-09
Last match : 22-Jan-11
Duration in days : 661
No of Matches in Charge: 30
Wins : 16
Draws: 6
Losses: 8
Winning % : 53.33%

Competitions

• Asian Cup : 4
• Asian Cup Qlfy : 4
• Friendlies : 15
• WAFF: 4
• WC Qlfy matches: 3

Scoring Stats
Goals scored : 39
Goals Against : 27
Goal Average : +12
Average goal scored per match : 1.30
Average goal against per match : 0.9

[maij]

Team Melli coaches records

Comparison of the last three Team Melli coaches:

[zzgloo]

I believe you are mixing two issues , Agha Bahram.

The technical abilities of the Iranian coaches versus their demeanor and public attitude.


On the first issue , technical ability , you have mentioned that the Iranian coaches are weak & unprofessional hence the poor results and standard of Iranian football. I personally will not allow myself to comment on such a vast issues, mainly because I do not have enough knowledge about them and have not worked closely with Iranian coaches or observed their work closely to form an opinion. But the most importantly , I am just a fan , NOT a professional coach to be able to judge how other coaches perform.

On the second issue , however which is demeanor and attitude in public , I have the knowledge to form an opinion. I do agree with you that the Iranian coaches lack professional attitude and many of their statements to the press and some live comments on TV are embarrassing to say the least and falls far short of acceptable level of professional conduct. This lame attitude , however , is not isolated to the Iranian coaches only , it is common against the whole system and singling out the Iranian coaches for such criticism is simply unfair and unjust.


However , although Ghotbi was far better in this department , he was not exactly an angel nor perfect. He had his own bloopers as well and I really do not think he left an impression on the Iranian coaches on how to behave. It is a petty.

Majid Jaan....I defenetly agree that Ghotbi is not the one to learn from......
he is already running his mouth in japan, and generalizing about japanease and Korean players..without noticing, he may have to answer for those comments later....and he may need to eat his words,so to say.......
...........
It is your prerogative, not to generalize technical abilities of domestic coaches...based on " Not having enough knowledge ".........( as you put it )....
I however, do not take my own opinion that seriously......as I may be wrong, and I will accept I am wrong, when otherwise is proven....
....
I merely formed an opinion ( not a fact ), based on some patterns of developments ;
............
1- The consistant failier of domestic coaches in International arenas . ( exclusion of recent ebrahimzadeh's success ).

2- Thier unusal, united stand toward Ghotbi bashing.( except very few like jallali ).

3-falling behind of Iranian football.lazyness,of football players ( running only 7 to 8 kilometer,rather than 14 to 15,etc,etc )

4-large number Domestic coaches lack of coaching license and education.

5-Culture of criticisms and jelousy.

6-United opinion of domestic coaches ( almost all of them )that TM should use Domestic coaches.

7-Monopoly on few coaching charactors,and revolving chair among coaches and clubs....and very few fersh faces.

8- The unusaly high level of hatred and criticism toward Ghotbi, ( this issue is in addition to normal usual criticisms, which needs explanation as to the reasons for such extend ).

.....
I see the above pattern as possible sign of " Monopoly ",and fear , as well as actions to preserve the monopoly......., it is as if , Ghotbi's success with little qualification,has exposed thier comfort .

Just my opinion,...no fact, not much proofs.