"The old player takes the young player's spot"

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Wow, you mean Karimi is 100% and Zanidpour is 30%??

What's a Siavash Akbarpour then? 5%?

30% of Karimi is a 10-year-old in my opinion lol. I mean the differences are not that big.

That means if you had the choice between either playing 10 players and Karimi or 10 players plus 3 Zanidpours, you still wouldn't take the 13-men-team? That doesn't really make sense, that Karimi is worth more than 3 Zanidpours .

it does very well... and that is exactly where our oppinions differ from eachother.

for me Karimi has an "intangible asset" which is simply = EXPERIENCE 1.5 in Bundesliga and 10 yrs in TM!!!

You dont see that in his technique, its all in his brain!

thats is where I am (moustachingly) coming from.

[Martin-Reza]

Martin Jan, are you publicly interviewing me or what lol...
if Karimi 100%
than Zandipour to me still below 30%
---> missing 1.5 year Bundesliga experience and 10 yrs TM of Karimi...

Wow, you mean Karimi is 100% and Zanidpour is 30%??

What's a Siavash Akbarpour then? 5%?

30% of Karimi is a 10-year-old in my opinion lol. I mean the differences are not that big.

That means if you had the choice between either playing 10 players and Karimi or 10 players plus 3 Zanidpours, you still wouldn't take the 13-men-team? That doesn't really make sense, that Karimi is worth more than 3 Zanidpours .

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Martin Jan, are you publicly interviewing me or what lol...

Just out of interest, how much would you rate the quality difference between Karimi and Zanidpour currently. I mean if Karimi's quality is 100%, how high would you rate Zanidpour?

if Karimi 100%
than Zandipour to me still below 30%

---> missing 1.5 year Bundesliga experience and 10 yrs TM of Karimi...

[kaz]

No, it's not. In football, neither players nor coaches will ever, especially during their playing careers, come out and sabotage their careers by giving the whole truth. People can only know the truth by the situations and what happened. They deal with it "professionally". Remember how Daei said he had a bad back and that's why he missed the 2nd match - yet we all know he was in tears and wanted to play?

Two foreign examples: people knew Xabi Alonso wanted to leave because the summer before Rafa Benitez wanted Barry and people knew Keane was Parry's buy because Rafa sold Keane ASAP and Parry left not soon after.

And in this case, well...I've already explained the bleeding obvious. If we were talking about a player around 33 who still moved, still scored (didn't rely solely on penalties) and was in general a positive, sure. There is an area of grey. Daei has no area of Grey. He was useless, he was slow, he was far too old. I didn't think much of Branko's coaching but he surely wasn't blind. Again, I point you to d) and e) .

[Martin-Reza]

It's completely made up, like the "Mobali kicked Daei and therefore never made it in TM" theory. It's not that I didn't talk to Ivankovic's assistant about this issue too. There was no reason to lie, as he also didn't lie on other delicate issues. Branko trusted in Daei's skills, leadership and professionalism and valued him as a fixed point in his squad. That's all. A different coach might have thought differently on Daei and decided differently, so why shouldn't you and me disagree?

Anyway, this is not the matter of this thread, so ba ejaze let's end this side issue now.

[kaz]

The only reason you need ridicuolous conspiracy theories is because you need to find an explanation for your twisted view on football. Since there is no rational reason to bring reality in accordance with yor views, you need a "fire exit" like a completely baseless theory with not the slightest proof. Hashemian btw almost always played left striker at Bochum as long as Thomas Christiansen was there. I know it because I saw many Bochum games live at that time. How many did you see?

So prove your allegations against Daei and Branko or quit it, seriously I am sick of it. Otherwise I can also claim you are a 7-year-old girl from the Bahamas. I have as much proof for that as you have for Daei being the big brain behind Branko who was his willing servant, lol, what a bullshit. And you dare to say such shit on F+.

It's not a conspiracy theory and it doesn't even need much imagination. You're dealing with people here, not robots. They have biases and they have their own ambitions which could be to the detriment of the team.

BTW, Hashemian was not playing left striker in TM, he was playing Left midfield.

You need to quit defending the obvious. I like you but your fanboyness is not becoming from someone who writes on this site for public consumption. As I said, even your hero (Daei) has talked about goings-on behind the scenes and how they influence choices. Why not for Daei himself? Do you think it's a coincidence that Karimi and half the team fell out with Daei at the WC and that in turn Karimi refused to play for Branko? Stop being naive.

It's very simple, let me break it down for you:

a) Daei was no longer a viable option for TM, especially 90 minutes every game.
b) Branko was under immense pressure throughout his last 1-2 years and needed all the support he could get.
c) Daei is a very powerful and influential man in Iranian football.
d) Daei rubbed Branko's back
e) Branko rubbed Daei's back.

Although I am not sure in which order d) or e) come.

[Martin-Reza]

That's because you're naive, and a bit of a fanboy for both Daei and Branko.

Daei wasn't even one of the best forwards in the league, let alone the best, to keep playing Hashemian out of position. Everyone knows there are shady dealings - Daei himself admitted as such - and to pretend that the ONLY reason was because the coach thought he was worthy, hence he must have been worthy, is too silly to argue with. But it doesn't stop you bringing it up again and again to revise history. Try in 10 years when people might have forgotten Daei walking around the pitch being useless, it's too soon.

The only reason you need ridicuolous conspiracy theories is because you need to find an explanation for your twisted view on football. Since there is no rational reason to bring reality in accordance with yor views, you need a "fire exit" like a completely baseless theory with not the slightest proof. Hashemian btw almost always played left striker at Bochum as long as Thomas Christiansen was there. I know it because I saw many Bochum games live at that time. How many did you see?

So prove your allegations against Daei and Branko or quit it, seriously I am sick of it. Otherwise I can also claim you are a 7-year-old girl from the Bahamas. I have as much proof for that as you have for Daei being the big brain behind Branko who was his willing servant, lol, what a bullshit. And you dare to say such shit on F+.

[kaz]

Our scoring problem in TM started exactly from the day Daei retired from TM! ever since he called the quits on TM our offense took the hit and experienced a lackluster series of striker one after another. C'mon please don't tell me that his late TM retirement killed the enthusiasm of all other strikers in the country, cuz 4 years is more than enough time for a motivated and young player to develop into a decent goal scorer, yet we still are in search of a semi-decent striker and haven't found it just yet!

Actually, we scored plenty of goals when Daei left. What was the problem was that our replacement forwards weren't scoring. You can argue as if Daei was better than them; but you'd have to have not watched many matches in his last few years to say that. I refuse to believe any sane fan who watched Daei's last years would contend he was still our best forward.

All the players that should have been used once Daei hit his 30s were wasted. Chances were sporadic and inconsistent for the others. It's no wonder we struggled to find a proper replacement. Anyways, it's not like Daei was a scoring machine for TM in the last few years. He either scored penalties or tap-ins put on a plate for him. He was at that stage as useless player as Ostad Asadi.

[kaz]

I guess generally we all agree that in a case where a player plays for non-sporting reasons is of course inacceptable. But this is not the issue here, nor is it the question here if that was the case with Daei. No secret that I can only shake my head in disbelief when I hear accusations of that kind against Daei and Branko.

That's because you're naive, and a bit of a fanboy for both Daei and Branko.

Daei wasn't even one of the best forwards in the league, let alone the best, to keep playing Hashemian out of position. Everyone knows there are shady dealings - Daei himself admitted as such - and to pretend that the ONLY reason was because the coach thought he was worthy, hence he must have been worthy, is too silly to argue with. But it doesn't stop you bringing it up again and again to revise history. Try in 10 years when people might have forgotten Daei walking around the pitch being useless, it's too soon.

[Martin-Reza]

Wow, that is very far away from what I imagine. I agree general match praxis on professional level is that important, especially at young age, but I could in no way agree that a few national team caps a year could ever have any impact even close to that.

Just out of interest, how much would you rate the quality difference between Karimi and Zanidpour currently. I mean if Karimi's quality is 100%, how high would you rate Zanidpour?

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Lol, in your dreams .

But honestly, just being curious, how much would you say would 15 caps more add to a players overall quality. Just roughly in your opinion. 10%, 20, 30, 50?

ok, very very theoretically;

age: 16 - 21 ---> 40%
age: 21 - 25 ---> 25%
age: 25 and above less than 10%

[Martin-Reza]

Lol, in your dreams .

But honestly, just being curious, how much would you say would 15 caps more add to a players overall quality. Just roughly in your opinion. 10%, 20, 30, 50?

[Adesor Vafaseya]

But players also get international experience on club level, plus it's not like the likes of Zanidpour don't get any playing time at all. In your opinion, how much quality would a player like Borhani have gained from let's say 15 TM caps more in his early twenties? Maybe 0.5%, of his current strength and that is already a high estimate in my opinion.

I truly believe its more than 0.5% (and i don't refer to Borhani.... in general, lets say a younger khalili..)

maybe we will never agree on this... but anyway I hope we both agree on this:


Azizi > Daei ???? ey?

[Martin-Reza]

not the players, but alone being involved in an international game is much different than playing in IPL. The expereince is not the same. It can teach the players some more lessons.
specially in one to one situations to see how other players react/behave, also overall positioning of opposing side etc etc...

But players also get international experience on club level, plus it's not like the likes of Zanidpour don't get any playing time at all. In your opinion, how much quality would a player like Borhani have gained from let's say 15 TM caps more in his early twenties? Maybe 0.5%, of his current strength and that is already a high estimate in my opinion.

[Keano]

The problem with Daei is that he didn't know when was when (or enough being enough).

Usually discussions around older players and promising youngsters is inevitable in all teams. Usually however, the player that is older is not 37...but in his early 30s.

Daei was a liability. Everyone prior and at the world cup mentioned so. People from all over the world, not even intimate with our football, were asking why Daei is playing. I will never forget Rafael Marquez (Mexican defender) essentially letting go of marking Daei and joining in the attack - basically Daei was useless and immobile.

Our scoring problem in TM started exactly from the day Daei retired from TM! ever since he called the quits on TM our offense took the hit and experienced a lackluster series of striker one after another. C'mon please don't tell me that his late TM retirement killed the enthusiasm of all other strikers in the country, cuz 4 years is more than enough time for a motivated and young player to develop into a decent goal scorer, yet we still are in search of a semi-decent striker and haven't found it just yet!