"The old player takes the young player's spot"

[BehzadB]

Actually I was talking a lot to Branko's assistant Human Afazeli at that time (autumn 2004) and it was Branko's decision alone to bring Azizi back. His reasons were not because he thought Azizi would be important to the team, but I don't know how much I am allowed to tell. Human would be the better person responding to this, but I can guarantee you Branko wasn't forced to make that invitation by anyone.

If there was such a decision by Branko, it was bringing Enayati and maybe Karimi to WC, although those issues are a bit more complicated than simple "orders" by some official.

Martin, I know you are kinda friends with Human, but I am telling you, I saw Branko on TV complaining about "people" wanting Azizi back. this is not something I read in papers. I saw him talk about it.


On his Interview after the WC (which was posted on IFO and ISP) he did mention Enayatee, but he didn't mention Karimi. So I know about the few (I think besides Enayatee he wasn't crazy about kazemian either) that he didn't want for the WC team, but that Azizi issue was Dadkan who wanted him.

[Martin-Reza]

It happened with Branko as well. He admitted it AFTER the WC in an interview posted on IFO and ISP. He was clearly against Azizi's return to TM but Azizi was included with TM in WCQ games.

Actually I was talking a lot to Branko's assistant Human Afazeli at that time (autumn 2004) and it was Branko's decision alone to bring Azizi back. His reasons were not because he thought Azizi would be important to the team, but I don't know how much I am allowed to tell. Human would be the better person responding to this, but I can guarantee you Branko wasn't forced to make that invitation by anyone.

If there was such a decision by Branko, it was bringing Enayati and maybe Karimi to WC, although those issues are a bit more complicated than simple "orders" by some official.

[kami_kakashi]

One can argue that Hashemian was a btter choice to play as target man and by insisting on playing Daei at the same time as him we effectivly put ourselves in a bad position because we could have played Shojai and Karimi at the same time in those days improving the careativity in the midfield.

In Karimi's case however there is no "might be better prospect". I do agree with the general concept that you are talking about. TM should not be age related but performance related. Did anyone watch Karimi vs Saipa? played one half only scored 2 and created 1.

I think ppl need to get off TM's and Karimi's back... give a high level view to the situaton and see how two of the best players in the league are Karim and Karimi with Karim being 37 (?) and Karimi almost 32. No youth program means this. TM and Ghotbi are not the reason for us not having a good target man or AM it only relates to the lack of invesment in talent.

Apperantly Steel Azin has teams in all the age groups with pretty good invesment, Esfehan clubs always had this all we need is the SS and PP coming on board with this behaviour as well. The minute we get rid of this false belive that TM is the place to create players is the minute we will start moving forward.

TM is the "Senior national team" there are plenty of youth teams for the young guys to get exposre just like all the good teams around the globe... all the teams have older super stars playing in their senior teams... Iran is no exception.

[BehzadB]

ultimately, if the coach makes the decision, I am fine with it. In Iran, we have had a history with situations where players were selected to national team by people other than the coach himself. I am not saying it has been a common practice, but it has happened.

It happened with Branko as well. He admitted it AFTER the WC in an interview posted on IFO and ISP. He was clearly against Azizi's return to TM but Azizi was included with TM in WCQ games.

personally, I am one of those guys that likes to see the younger guy play and the older guy come of the bench in certain situations.

[Martin-Reza]

Here in Forums I repeatedly run across the same argument. It was a classic in Daei's late era, but now has a revival with Karimi's return to TM.

It's about people complaining that old players playing, take away the place of younger players.

I think that is complete nonsense. There might be specific situations in which a certain set of circumstances make it true, but normally it's simply not making sense.

The problem with old players playing instead of young has two different aspects.

The first is that the younger player is currently worse than the veteran, but could become better with more match praxis. But since he is being denied this match praxis, he doesn't develop well enough and remains worse than the old player, who then retires and leaves us with the bad unexperience youngster.

The second is that the young player is already better, but doesn't get a chance to prove it, because an older player due to his popularity, image and status is playing instead. So the youngster is not getting enough playing time to show himself.

I think both issues might be a problem on club level, but mostly not on national team level.

In connection with the first issue, one must think that every player plays about 35-50 games a year on club level. Plus he has about 250 training sessions. How much of a difference can a dozen national team games make in the end? And how much can a player above 20 develop anyway? Players are mostly done at that age and their main development takes place on club level, not in national team.

Also the second issue might be a problem on club level, but as he has his 35-50 games at club level every year, he has a sufficient stage to show himself and can hardly be overseen by a national team coach.

So as long as both players regulary are observed on club level and the old player is better in the coach's opinion, there is little sense in benching him for a worse younger player. So I think complaining about the coach making that logical decision, is not making sense at all.

Does anyone have anything to add?