Your assessment of past 3 TM coaches.

[zzgloo]

^ This has little to do with getting banned. It's more about how entertaining these forums can be for everyone and many people living out their hard feelings against a specific coach do reduce it from my point of view.

I must say, with all due to respect to Majid jan, I smell the same kind of hard feelings on the rise against Ghotbi by you, so I am a bit surprised that you react so strong to zzgloo's post.

Bahram jan, Of course such a feeling is always with you, but it's your own decision if you let it get the best of you, or if you control it and remember it's not that much of a big deal after all and chill out a little bit.

In the end, it's only hurt pride speaking out of us. We suffered an embarassement and we want somebody to blame. 11 players, 1 coach, who will we pick? Of course the coach. Partially that's justified, partially it's exaggerated.

Anyway, I guess we also all know that the "hate" we are talking about is not real hate, but strong negative feelings, just for the record. Because it takes more to hate someone than a couple of bad results as a coach.

I guess you are right.......hate is too strong a word !
I do believe,we are all good people here !!.....
one thing,that I shall remind myself in future, to watch my language ,will be the fear of losing nice people such as you all !

[Martin-Reza]

^ This has little to do with getting banned. It's more about how entertaining these forums can be for everyone and many people living out their hard feelings against a specific coach do reduce it from my point of view.

I must say, with all due to respect to Majid jan, I smell the same kind of hard feelings on the rise against Ghotbi by you, so I am a bit surprised that you react so strong to zzgloo's post.

Bahram jan, Of course such a feeling is always with you, but it's your own decision if you let it get the best of you, or if you control it and remember it's not that much of a big deal after all and chill out a little bit.

In the end, it's only hurt pride speaking out of us. We suffered an embarassement and we want somebody to blame. 11 players, 1 coach, who will we pick? Of course the coach. Partially that's justified, partially it's exaggerated.

Anyway, I guess we also all know that the "hate" we are talking about is not real hate, but strong negative feelings, just for the record. Because it takes more to hate someone than a couple of bad results as a coach.

[zzgloo]

Let's be honest, almost everyone has a coach he hates. May it be Branko for Dr. Doom, Daei for zzgloo or Ghotbi for many, like Kaiser Amir.

And to be honest, it has become widely accepted that people let go with their feelings and run campaigns (eg. by repeatedly calling a coach the same disrespectful way, like "wimp" or "computer freak") against them.

To me, that is pretty annoying. Can there anything be done about that? I don't mean by the Moderating Staff, but maybe everyone can take a deep breath and let go the hard feelings a bit. I mean those mostly are well respected long-time members who have much more to offer than bashing a coach constantly.

Martin Jaan.........wise words !!!
I am honest,and I do admit I hate " The guy " !....and when the feeling is deep, it is always with you....it is not the matter of constantly bashing a coach.........it is matter of being constantly " Our " " own self " !,and consistancy of our beliefs !!!
My hatred of Daei,unlike other " hatreds " ! , is not neccessarly based on his poor performance, but, his arrogant disrepect of " US " the Iranian people, his true BOSS !!!!
I ,for one, can never, ever, forgive such disrespect, even if it means being baned from PFDC.

[Martin-Reza]

Let's be honest, almost everyone has a coach he hates. May it be Branko for Dr. Doom, Daei for zzgloo or Ghotbi for many, like Kaiser Amir.

And to be honest, it has become widely accepted that people let go with their feelings and run campaigns (eg. by repeatedly calling a coach the same disrespectful way, like "wimp" or "computer freak") against them.

To me, that is pretty annoying. Can there anything be done about that? I don't mean by the Moderating Staff, but maybe everyone can take a deep breath and let go the hard feelings a bit. I mean those mostly are well respected long-time members who have much more to offer than bashing a coach constantly.

[zzgloo]

Bahram Agha.

Obviously you don't understand , accept or respect what I am saying , and what I stated was out of the feeling of a normal fan of Iranian football who has spent a life time supporting and serving it and still remain PROUD of it.

I did not show any authority nor did I yield any power and If I am not mistaken , I am supposed to be one of your favorites Mods , but that support means nothing and you change at an instant , claiming a list of misdemeanors !!...... Are you sure I am in your favorite books ? God..... I hate to see what do you do the ones in your black list


Well..... I said what I need to say.

Thanks for " saying what you needed to say " !!
And you are still one of my most faivorit MODS,along with yashar and faraz...
What am I supposed to do ?, say yes to what ever you say ?..even when you attack, with all force,and using 20 words to dircribe my " uncivilized ,immature,biasd,prejudice,personal vandetta " of what ? asking others " Who is the most arrogant coach " ???
You are far too intelegent ,not to notice your " Over reaction ",was I realy needed to be reminded of F + policies ?....and that is all still fine with me........you are like all of us ,a Human ....
I do believe, your contribution is secound to non on PFDC..and always appreciate your hard work ,intelegent and thoughtful input......
But, majid Jaan, even as a " Normal fan of Iranian football " I say to you.....Ali Daei is not GOD .........and our feelings would be better placed when our " people " are put first...........and to me, he has insulted our football as well as our people !
You too need to accept it or respect my opinion....and if that is not possible,
do not call it 20 different names.
We are both very different,but I believe I can tolerate ,and still appreciate you,... you how ever,do not need to appreciate me, just tolerate !

[maij]

Bahram Agha.

Obviously you don't understand , accept or respect what I am saying , and what I stated was out of the feeling of a normal fan of Iranian football who has spent a life time supporting and serving it and still remain PROUD of it.

I did not show any authority nor did I yield any power and If I am not mistaken , I am supposed to be one of your favorites Mods , but that support means nothing and you change at an instant , claiming a list of misdemeanors !!...... Are you sure I am in your favorite books ? God..... I hate to see what do you do the ones in your black list


Well..... I said what I need to say.

[zzgloo]

just to indulge our friend here, I'll try to answer these:

1- ghotbi

2- I'd say the past 3-4 coaches pretty much did embarrass us at different stages (yes, branko's was the 3 shameful WC games). so instead I'd say the coach with LEAST embarrassment is GN

3- Daei

4- ghotbi

5- ghotbi


and I answered these quite UN-emotionally. so plz dont use my posts as an example of emotional views. I just happen to have a more ... umm ... colorful, flowery () and descriptive language . and I'm certainly as objective as any here.
for me, the WC games were a great source of embarrassment and I just cant get over the "missed opportunity" aspect of those games. perhaps others arent as embarrassed by those (imminently predictable) pitiful, pathetic displays as I was. to each his own.

God bless,Payman jaan....as I said it before,I admit I also speak Colorful ! Flowery !
And I can see how you see it .....
So, you think, Losing to Portugal and mexico in the WC,was most embarrassing than losing to the incomplete Saudi team in a pact AZADI estedium !.........
I see your opinion,but I respectfuly disagree.

[Doctor DOOM]

Lets ask questions about our coaches:
.....
1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
4-which coach delivered the least ?
5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
............
These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.

just to indulge our friend here, I'll try to answer these:

1- ghotbi

2- I'd say the past 3-4 coaches pretty much did embarrass us at different stages (yes, branko's was the 3 shameful WC games). so instead I'd say the coach with LEAST embarrassment is GN

3- Daei

4- ghotbi

5- ghotbi


and I answered these quite UN-emotionally. so plz dont use my posts as an example of emotional views. I just happen to have a more ... umm ... colorful, flowery () and descriptive language . and I'm certainly as objective as any here.
for me, the WC games were a great source of embarrassment and I just cant get over the "missed opportunity" aspect of those games. perhaps others arent as embarrassed by those (imminently predictable) pitiful, pathetic displays as I was. to each his own.

[zzgloo]

Our objective in creating F+ was to enrich PFDC discussion board with mature, civilized, informative and unbiased viewpoints on all topics. When there is a need for criticism, then it should be constructive, Objective, useful, balanced and impersonal. Even if the post does not contain such attributes, then, at least the criticism should be in good taste.

However, what I see from Bahram is one unsavory , continual attack at Ali Daei as if he has a personal vendetta with the man !

Frankly, I take this as an insult and sign of disrespect NOT just to Ali Daei but to the masses that think very highly of him as a servant of Iranian football , despite his imperfection. It is an insult at a symbol of Iranian football.
The prejudice and the severity of attack is simply intolerable, to say the least. Out of respect, I would reserve using the words that I really think that describes what I think of it….hoping that Bahram reciprocates similar respects and refrains from such outlandish verbal’s .

Majid jaan,
There is no reason to be offended........or get your feelings involved !!
why do n,t you just answer the above questions !!!
Which coach was the most arrogant ?.....just name a name......
Which coach embaressed TM the most ?.......,just come up with one name !
Which coach offered the least complecated performance ?......just state your opinion......
.........
Any time, some one states an opinion,that is not in line with your opinion, you remind,every one, ( what was the intention behind F+,) and you remind yourself of your power ( being a MOD,and ability to eliminat posts,and members ) in to the discussion.....
..........
What I have written,is by no means the most insulting,nor the least objective we all see ..........it only,conflicts with your ,out of this word, emotional opinion of Daei..
..........
Just listen to yourself :
regarding me asking 5 questions,and my single answer to them...
here is what you have said in your above post.which 70% of which are :

Immature,
uncivilized,
uninformative,
Biased,
critical,
nonconstructive,
nonobjective,
unuseful,
imbalanced,
personal,
Bad taste,
unsavory,
continual attack,
personal vandetta,
insult,
disrepect,
prejudice,
severity of attack,
intolerable,
outlandish,
,,etc
......WOWWWWWWWWWWWW
I am realy glad, you reserved the words,you realy thought you should say :
.......
To me, you are just as emotional as Payman,and need to be more objective.....
and objectively speaking,...so do I !!!!!!

[maij]

Lets ask questions about our coaches:
.....
1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
4-which coach delivered the least ?
5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
............
These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.

[zzgloo]

Lets ask questions about our coaches:
.....
1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
4-which coach delivered the least ?
5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
............
These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.

[Martin-Reza]

^ good that you pulled out of the Branko discussion in order not to make it a Branko thread .

[Doctor DOOM]

I don want to make this about branko, as I've asked to assess the past 3 coaches who are all vatani ones.
but to enlighten branko's fans I must say he enjoyed tremendous security in his job that none of the vatani ones even came close to. for example GN was fired for drawing with south korea and losing on penalties!

secondly, since yashar seems to have forgotten all those threads during the WC, I made it clear branko may have been enough (more or less) for asian teams, but for the WC, I knew before playing in it, that he'd be a disaster, too little and small for that competition, too limited in knowledge and too scared and cautious to help Iran in a situation (and group) which could have provided Iran the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of doing something great in the WC.

anyway. the past is past.
I'd like to discuss what's happening now. and I really think this qatar tourney will have a detrimental impact on ghotbi, even if he isnt fired becoz of it.

[yashar_fasihnia]

My dear payman.....You analysis of Branko,does not sound objective !
But frankly ,I admit,I feel very similar about Daei...so,we are even !!!!!!!!!!!!!
...........
Many,keep bringing up daei,s playing time when they want to support his coaching !!!,and I had to explain,it was not relevent.
...........
Branko had 5 years,because he did nothing to be fired for...he got IRAN to a very good Asian games aand results...he got Iran to 15 th rank of FIFA,and he got IRAN to the world cup.............what els do you want from a country with big problems,and mediocre football in Asia?
.........

wow! isnt that shocking???

anyways, this gentleman once never asked himself if branko was so shit like he claims, he would have been fired much earlier and not renewed his contract with almost everybody being happy with this decision! 5 years also gives u more time to be criticized, to perform poorly and to lose matches and be attacked in media yet he survived for 5 years! this is wat some people dont realize!

the fact that he was our coach for 5 years speaks how much everyone from the authorities to the fans and media were happy for him, atleast majority were
and im glad to see nowadays many people barring the same few over here are now realizing their mistakes in their judgement about branko and his worth which can be seen in the forums

lol as for ghotbi been given 5 years time to do better than branko, ghotbi should EARN his 5 year contract first!

as if it is worth anything, I CAN PROMISE, if mayelli kohan is given 5 years time, he will win asian cup for us and take us to 2nd round of world cup! hala ye MARD, YE NAFAS KESH BIYAD AND PROVE ME WRONG!

---------------------------------------------------

anyways, back to the last 3 vatani coaches,
i agree with peyman about GN and daei but i think daei invited a lot more of no name and younger players than GN and ghotbi and ever since, these players are now being kept an eye on, if not by ghotbi, atleast by media, fans and critics which itself is appreciable.

i was really hoping GN could be a breath of fresh air among the iranian coaches since he did really well in IPL, but his ACL tenure last season made me doubtful although our group was really tough and we were really unlucky with missing some empty penalties and empty nets and conceding some really stupid goals.
so while GN is doing great in IPL, i will try to make a better judgement of him in ACL again since this IPL has proven how unprofessional and elementary the teams, the referee and the players are and i dont consider it a "melak" for judgement anymore.

as for ghotbi, i like him the least of the last 3 coaches and dont have much faith in him and his abilities. so as usual, i am hoping our teams individual talents can carry us and maybe ghotbi's can only inject his positivity and PR characteristics into the team for more support for the team and some confidence in the team!

[Martin-Reza]

First of all, I don't think even IFF will be so stupid to fire a coach after a friendly tournament.

Anyway, I think GN is not a special coach to me, I mean compared to international coaches. He doesn't do much wrong, but he is not the man for special ideas, able to compete on highest level.

Daei could have been a special coach, but his appointment came too late. He was forced to initialize a transition period during a WCQ campaign. I am sure had he been appointed immediately after AC 2007 and would have had 6 months time prior to the first phase of WCQ, things would be very different now. Other than most, I think he was not affected by personal feelings. Not inviting all the veterans all the time was the right decision, especially not to call up a not fully fit Karimi for KSA was absolutely a correct decision based on the circumstances. If he had just put a second man on the far post during the Saudi corner when the score was 1-1, instead of leaving an extra man upfront for a counter attack in order to maybe still get the winner, we'd be at WC now. Interestingly, someone often critisized for a too defensive approach in the end failed due to too much risk. Again ironically, Saudi's coach made the exact same mistake against Bahrain, which cost them WC. In Saud's case, they didn't even need another goal at all, so it was just plain stupid.

Ghotbi on the other hand is not a special coach either. Other than most Iranian coaches, he is used to absolute professionalism and knows how to organize though. Like Daei, but unlike GN, he has a quite good coaching staff. Other than his predecessors, I don't think he has too much respect from the players, which makes his job harder.

Branko almost was the perfect coach for Iran. He built a great team, added defensive stability. Introduced the fourback and many young players to the country. Playing under him, we always could be sure we'd not get humiliated by any team and there always existed the chance of success.