Ghotbi on the one-striker issue

[persianallstars]

Not only that, but also anyone who favors 4.2.3.1 is a moron, an idiot and a RETARD, ... (notice RETARD is in Capital letters)
those are doctor doom's exact words..

well I told him once, i want the same drink, he had yesterday but unfortunately he only speaks about spoon and knife and fork and a soup!

and martin, it's better doc stays in his own world, it's like he has a rendez-vous with his dentist and the dentist says "you have a hole in your left tooth" and doom answers him "No that's my baby tooth, and the dentist assures him there is no baby tooth, however doom doesn't believe him

[Doctor DOOM]

^ har har very nice!!! ... and relevant !!!!!!


=================

anyway, seems I'm due for a little cooling off ... coz I need it, and self-imposed ban.


so everyone, enjoy yourselves and and good luck with ur game tomorrow and next week and perhaps ( hopefully ) the play-offs.



oh, btw, now, I guess there's no need for any of you to rush (!!) to answer those queries on 4-2-3-1 , back in page 3 . must be a relief

[maly]

Well, I wanna hear (read) it explicitely here from him. It is clear he is saying that, but he always claims "I haven't said that".

Maybe during typing that Ghotbi, Daei and Ivankovic are retards in concern of tactics and he knows better, he has to start laughing and realizes something about his view and way to present it is wrong.

Martin Jan, the 4-2-3-1 is a very good formation for IRAN IF and only IF the striker is someone who is able to makje the difference on the air and on a "one on one situation" with a defender which is unfortunately not the case anymore TODAY.

Before, a world class striker like Ali Daei was able to head the ball from any position into the net, fortunately for us, Hash succedded him but now, either Borhani or Khalili are not able to play that role. Hash is getting old and his finishing is not as good as before nor his stamina.

So the 4-2-3-1 COULD be a possibility in our TM today IF the 3 persons behind the striker have the ability ALSO to play on the ground and create opportunity by fast 1-2 to create holes into the opponent's defense.

The problem is that this "ball control" needed to play on the ground is lacking, especially with players from IPL. On the other hand, the bad results at club and national level (problem to score) is clear and the reason is also clear.

I would say the best option TODAY would be to keep the 4-2-3-1 with Hash in front, Kia, Shojaei and Karimi behind him and this is exactly what Ghotbi done (except that he should have tried Karimi on the left and Shojaei in the center) against North Korea. We were just unlucky not to score.

I guess that Gotbi saw that Shojaei has big problems adapting himself on the left while Karimi is much more flexible and can play there. Kia should remain on the right and we should pray that he is in form and Shojaei could be tried on the center as his passing ability is very good.

[Haf3z]

I have to be honest and admit that I don't have 100 % knowledge about the the current TM set up of players and their condition respectively, but implementing a 4-2-3-1 system requires a lot of time and patience before we can see the results of such a style of playing.

Generally speaking, there are very few teams in the world that master a 4-2-3-1 formation, with Barcelona being the role models based on their latest season and results. However, it's important to remember (as some already have said) that numbers don't mean anything on the field if the right attitude and spirit does not exist among the players in the squad. A well known and successful manager in Sweden once said that his players all shared the same goal before every game they played - to run (and create) more than the opponents. Our players are (with few exceptions) not known for doing the dirty work on the pitch (physically speaking). It's all about technique and showing off and no balance unfortunately (from what I've seen).

I don't think the sole striker would be the main problem in a 4-2-3-1 system for Iran, because in modern football, there are few traditional box playing and big towering strikers left (like van Nistelrooy for instance). Players like Ibrahimovic are participating more in the playmaking instead of just waiting for the balls to enter the box. I can't think of good and talented Iranian target players, but I can see a lot of technically gifted players that can play on the offensive spots on midfield positions, that's pretty much it. An alternative would maybe be to have a player like Nekounam as a towering player upfront, someone who is secure with the ball, heads well, who can hold the ball for a second or two before passing it further to the running offensive players from midfield. The two sitting midfielders would act with anchoring roles, making sure that any counter attack attempts by the opponents would be prevented. This would probably not work for Iran after just two or three games because generally our players are not that tactically gifted.

Iran should stick to the kind of system it has the best opportunities to be successful with, and not the system that is used by the most successful in the world (e.g. Barcelona, Man U, Inter etc.). 4-4-2 is believed to be a system with a lot of freedom and stability. Maybe we should focus on it and try to develop our own game with it for a longer period of time instead of changing too often. Either that or we give 4-2-3-1 a try for a WCQ campaign for instance before we judge it completely.

My two cents .

[Martin-Reza]

I think today we saw how it is supposed to work. Having an unpredictable attack thanks to offensive players coming forward as second strikers frequently.

It only works if the offensive players push forward, like Shojaei repeatedly did or like Karimi did on the goal.

[TrueBlue]

http://www.persianfootball.com/index...=2075&Itemid=2



I guess some disagree. Opinions please.

Makes sense if you use your players in RIGHT POSITIONS. We saw again today, as in NK match:

1- Kia: does not suit RW anymore
2- Shojaee: Everyone seems to ENJOY bashing this kid, well, as long as the COACHING STAFF decides to play him on LW, he is going to continue playing SH*T!!!
3- 2 DM: Ando/Neku - Ando/P. Nouri none of these duos worked, specially the second one.
4- Lone striker up-top AKA Hashemian: as this point, we might as well put a "Matarsak" up there.

If Ghotbi keeps using his players in positions that they are not familiar with/not suitable for, football modern ke hich, footballe ali asghariye be dardemoon nemikhore.

[faraz]

Folks,

Emotions seems to be as high as they ever were, what with our terrible performances and perhaps we all need a break or two to calm down.

On behalf of Peyman (he pm'ed me), I ask that MR and others answer the following questions, without beating around the bush too much.

1/WHERE, and HOW has this stupid 4-2-3-1 formation worked for us when we wanted the victory?

2/WHICH PLAYERS IN IRAN FIT THIS FORMATION AND HAS DELIVERED THE DUTIES PROPERLY

On a personal note, I am torn about this - I think having 2 DM certainly provides adequate cover for our defence and ensures we are not easily penetrated; however, there is clearly a lack of goalscoring or support up front. It's not an easy assessment to make.

Anyhow, if you can please answer those two questions, I would be most appreciative.

[BehzadB]

On a personal note, I am torn about this - I think having 2 DM certainly provides adequate cover for our defence and ensures we are not easily penetrated; however, there is clearly a lack of goalscoring or support up front. It's not an easy assessment to make.

Anyhow, if you can please answer those two questions, I would be most appreciative.

we have 10 players running around on the field.. divide them by 2, gives you 5.. that's 5 for offense and 5 for defense (since both offense and defense are equally important)..

You then take a player like nekunam and you swing him between the two groups of players (defense and offense).. when on offense, he moves forward and supports the attack making it 5 players in offense, and when on defense he becomes the 6th defender.. even the teams that play 4.4.2, have a holding midfielder.. that means they have 5 on offense.. even barca's 4.3.3 has a holding midfielder, leaving 5 for attack..

It is wrong to think that adding another forward will fix our offensive problems. How many times did we have 2 and more players in the box today, and still didn't get anything done??

good Offense (or defense) is not guaranteed by the formation, but by execution.. When our best midfielders give the ball away (like neku, ando, shojaie and Kia did several times today); does it even matter what formation they are lined up in??

We had more than one striker in AC games, didn't we?

[Essi]

This 4-2-3-1 formation worked fine during Branko's Era.

[purple_haze]

This 4-2-3-1 formation worked fine during Branko's Era.

Well said Ali jan and the rest who are on the same line.
It's not the system, it's IMO the horrendous low amount of running in general which surely is due to lack of fitness.
Our off the ball movement is almost zero. In both recent games and even the ones before all the opposing team has to do is to gather and then just maintain their position, because with our lack of movement there's no risk for them and they can clear every ball with ease.
The only players that were constantly running without the ball yesterday were Kaebi and Nouri on the flanks and Khalatbari when he came in. The rest looked like they had camped in their respective areas on the field.
It would not make much of a difference even if we added another striker or two (which in fact we have done both as starters or later in the games) simply becasue they would just get lost in the crowd and with the low football-IQ among most of our players, it wouldn't surprise me if the added striker/strikers would just confuse eachother or take the other's space, going for the same balls etc.
What we're lacking badly is fitness and IQ and noe of those can be remedied in just a few weeks. The fitness part could have been taken care of easier if we had a better league and coaches and the IQ part, well that could've been improved if we had better vision and infrastructure.
Right now we are what we are.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Well said Ali jan and the rest who are on the same line.
It's not the system, it's IMO the horrendous low amount of running in general which surely is due to lack of fitness.
Our off the ball movement is almost zero. In both recent games and even the ones before all the opposing team has to do is to gather and then just maintain their position, because with our lack of movement there's no risk for them and they can clear every ball with ease.
The only players that were constantly running without the ball yesterday were Kaebi and Nouri on the flanks and Khalatbari when he came in. The rest looked like they had camped in their respective areas on the field.
It would not make much of a difference even if we added another striker or two (which in fact we have done both as starters or later in the games) simply becasue they would just get lost in the crowd and with the low football-IQ among most of our players, it wouldn't surprise me if the added striker/strikers would just confuse eachother or take the other's space, going for the same balls etc.
What we're lacking badly is fitness and IQ and noe of those can be remedied in just a few weeks. The fitness part could have been taken care of easier if we had a better league and coaches and the IQ part, well that could've been improved if we had better vision and infrastructure.
Right now we are what we are.

perfectly put and repped!

[Mr.Good]

it wouldn't surprise me if the added striker/strikers would just confuse eachother or take the other's space, going for the same balls etc.

With the IPL players we have, I'm sure that will most probably happen.

Did you guys remember the counter attack we had with Shojaei and Borhani?
Its true that Shojaei Hesitated a lot at the end, and Borhani could not hit the ball properly, but did you guys notice how the attack started?
Ando got the ball in the middle and perfectly released Shojaei, but then Borhani runs towards Shojaei and the ball. This guy (Borhani) did not know where his teammates are, and most probably he was offside. Eventually Borhani noticed Shojaei, maybe because Shojaei shouted at him.
Later when they both entered the box, Borhani looked really awkward in his positioning. I wish Shojaei had more confidence and finished the goal himself...