Khalatbari

[Essi]

I'm not sure if this is has been discussed before but I would like to know your thoughts about Khalatbari and his position. Daei tried Gholamreza Rezai as forward both alone and with VH. Why cant we use Khalatbari together with Hashemian? I mean the different b/w Rezai and Khalatbari is that khalatbari can score goals. He's more technical than Rezai and I'm sure he's faster than him as well. In my eyes, he would also beat Borhani with this properties.



----------------------Rahmati-----------------------

-----Kaebi--------Aghili--------Hosseini--------Ashjari----

------Shojaee (Kia)----Ando----Kazemi-------Karimi------

-----------------VH----------------Khalatbari

[Paradigm]

I'm not sure if this is has been discussed before but I would like to know your thoughts about Khalatbari and his position. Daei tried Gholamreza Rezai as forward both alone and with VH. Why cant we use Khalatbari together with Hashemian? I mean the different b/w Rezai and Khalatbari is that khalatbari can score goals. He's more technical than Rezai and I'm sure he's faster than him as well. In my eyes, he would also beat Borhani with this properties.

He is like the Karimi of Zob Ahan. Just needs to work on body building a bit.

[Doctor DOOM]

Normally I would oppose having midfielders ( even the more attack minded ones ) as forwards and would rather see an out-n-out striker up there.

but at the moment with most strikers firing blanks, I'm open to anything.
as long as we have TWO guys up there.

abandoning a lone striker has NEVER fared well for us.
for barca maybe. for holland, maybe.
but for Iran?
never !

so the best thing is give the center forward some assistance , not behind him, but beside him so the second chap would pull a defender off VH or whoever the center is.

and he's always an added option to get someone with a strike.

================

and since the thread is about khalatbari , I'm gonna refrain from commenting on essi's midfield line-up .... if ya'll get mah drift

[Paradigm]

I think Khalatbari can also help set up shots for Nekounam and Shojaie. Look at the goal TM scored versus KSA for instance. If we are not scoring off set pieces or counter attacks then the next best way is to set up shots behind the box. Khatalbari can drag two defenders and create some space before passing the ball into open space. I would say with Khalatbari, Karimi, Shojaie, and Mobali on the pitch all at the same time, the opponent will be in some serious trouble because these players are all the type who can control the ball and dictate the game. Also... besides Nekounam, Zandi can take power shots. Recall Daie didn't have several of these players in his arsenal. I defenitely think Kia and VH are pretty much useless for TM. Maybe VH as a substitute striker can be an option. Kia should not even be invited since he has not done anything significant for TM since the Asian Cup 2004.

[Essi]

and since the thread is about khalatbari , I'm gonna refrain from commenting on essi's midfield line-up .... if ya'll get mah drift

And What's wrong with the midfield?

[yashar_fasihnia]

^
nothing, it just doesnt sit well with him cos u got 2 DMs in the middle of the field

----------------------------

khalatbari definitely over borhani! borhani has recently started losing his cool again. khalatbari is so much sharper and more composed infront of the goal!
he also works harder and helps the midfield more than borhani.

[Essi]

^
nothing, it just doesnt sit well with him cos u got 2 DMs in the middle of the field

----------------------------

khalatbari definitely over borhani! borhani has recently started losing his cool again. khalatbari is so much sharper and more composed infront of the goal!
he also works harder and helps the midfield more than borhani.

Yeah I know that but we need two. We had two in WC as well with Ando and Javad.

[Doctor DOOM]

( before going over this I must say I have talked about such & similar line ups PLENTY of times before and I'm just repeating myself here ! )

yes, for one, it IS having 2 def mids.
but when you say something like this :

Yeah I know that but we need two. We had two in WC as well with Ando and Javad.

... then I know you are not making this a situation-specific line-up.

coz for you guys playing portugal and mexico is suddenly the same as playing uae and nkorea !!!!!
you see where I'm going?

against big & stronger teams, it is natural to have 2 def mids, coz we naturally expect severe pressure on our defense and we'd need reinforcement.
But against uae and nkorea?
really?
especially in games we NEED TO WIN to stay alive?

---------------

the second problem is pushing ur playmaker ( karimi ) to a corner, thus reducing the area of his influence. almost in none of the successful teams in the world do you see their playmakers pushed to a flank. they're usually in the middle to have complete access to both flanks as well as up front.

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third problem is when we have a forward with good heading ability, you need to have good crossers in the flanks.
and despite the popular sentiment of putting shojaei on a pedestal ( solely becoz he plays in osasuna ), I'm afraid his game doesnt suit a flank player's duties. neither in crossing and playing down the line, nor certainly in defending!

Kia or Kazemian or Kaabi or Haydari or ... are far more suited for the right flank.
as for the left, again, madanchi, hajsafi, ... would fare better than him.

so like it or not, shojaei's best place is in the middle, where Karimi plays and between the two, karimi's repertoire is FAR MORE extensive than shojaei

so it makes no sense in "packing the team with NAMES" rather than "using the right players for the right positions".
--------------

...... which brings me to the final point.
just becoz shojaei shot a goal does not make him a good "shooter".
if we've watched more than 3 games of his we'd know he isnt a "shooter" to begin with, let alone a "good one" !
so, sorry farshid jan, while you are right that khalatbari can pull defenders for a cut back to shooters, shojaie cant be one of them. nekunam, karimi, mobaali, kazemi, kazemian, madanchi, zandi, ... are more suitable for this option.


secondly he isnt a good goal scorer either. I think this is even more apparent than his shooting ability.
ba yek gol bahar nemisheh.

I had hopes that after going to spain, his skills will develop and will become a complete player like when karimi came back from bayern.
coz he had as much potential, but was much younger and energetic.
but I guess the way he has been used at osasuna hasnt helped developing him. they merely use him for "getting fouls & freekicks" by mindlessly dribbling !!
A "foul-getter" and NOTHING ELSE !!!!!

his defending hasnt improved.
his forward game also hasnt moved much.
even his dribbling, I'd say, is the same as he was when playing in Iran or uae !!!

he needs a tough coach who can whip him into shape, not pander and pat him on the back for continuously dribbling & dribbling!
tough love is what he needs.

===========================================

Anyway, back to the topic.
I think if Khalatbari does well in the remaining 3 qualifiers ( I really cant see him get 270 minutes. I just cant ), he stands a very good chance for a decent transfer to europe.
he has ball skills
he has pace
he has great potential in intelligence ( although he does stupid things also and gets selfish at times ... hence the word "potential" )
with a little physical build up, he'll be a great export.

which creates a big hole for poor zob-ahan !

[BehzadB]

Khalatbari is a very good player with many talents and skills. He does have an issue with his temper.. If he gets hassled by the opponents, he gets frustrated too quickly and that affects his game.. he must work on this.

if we go 4.2.3.1, My guess is that our front line will consist of:

Shojaie - Karimi - Khalatbari
-----------VH-------------


Those three guys on the OM line can change position easily during the game.. the only problem with that line up is that karimi and shojaie don't pressure the ball much defensively, but Khalatari does. So does VH..

We can also play 4.1.4.1 and add Zandi to the line, and make karimi a sort of 'free' player to roam around, but in that case Ando who would be the only DM has to make sure he is not caught out of position on counter attacks.

This game is NOT as a MUST win as some make it out to be. A tie is not the end of the world. North Korea has to win this game. A tie is as good as a loss for them.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I diagree on the game's importance to teams.

1- NKorea is @ 10 points with a home game vs Iran and an away vs ksa.

2- Iran is @ 6 points and has an away game at NKorea , home vs uae, away vs SKorea

if we draw this one, NKorea = 11
Iran = 7

isnt that leaving MORE things to chance , like a draw between NKorea & ksa would ensure BOTH OF THEM advancing ... which is acceptable to BOTH teams ... meaning both coaches have this "amicable draw" viable option on their table ( as compared to a situation where ONE will be eliminated so at least an "amicable draw" will not be on neither coach's table) ??
ie: NKorea =12 ,
Ksa = 11 ( even if they lose to SKorea )
Iran = 10


leaving us with the improbable task of WINNING AT SKOREA ( even taking a uae defeat as granted ... which is certainly not a wise idea ) !!!!

na behzad jan, like it or not between us and NK, it is THEM who fare better in case of a draw.

[Paradigm]

^ I diagree on the game's importance to teams.
1- NKorea is @ 10 points with a home game vs Iran and an away vs ksa.
2- Iran is @ 6 points and has an away game at NKorea , home vs uae, away vs SKorea
if we draw this one, NKorea = 11
Iran = 7
isnt that leaving MORE things to chance , like a draw between NKorea & ksa would ensure BOTH OF THEM advancing ... which is acceptable to BOTH teams ... meaning both coaches have this "amicable draw" viable option on their table ( as compared to a situation where ONE will be eliminated so at least an "amicable draw" will not be on neither coach's table) ??
ie: NKorea =12 ,
Ksa = 11 ( even if they lose to SKorea )
Iran = 10
leaving us with the improbable task of WINNING AT SKOREA ( even taking a uae defeat as granted ... which is certainly not a wise idea ) !!!!
na behzad jan, like it or not between us and NK, it is THEM who fare better in case of a draw.

I agree with this analysis 100%. NK is a must-win for TM. The only comment is, winning at SKorea is truly hard but not improbable. Recall the Busan AG 2002? (Well, that went to the PK's, but still a win!)

As for Shojaie, he is still 24 (younger than Mobali!) I would say that in a couple of years he can get much better with the right coaching direction, and his own hard work and willingness to improve.

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree with this analysis 100%. NK is a must-win for TM. The only comment is, winning at SKorea is truly hard but not improbable. Recall Asian Games in Busan 2002? (Well, that went to the PK's, but still a win!)
As for Shojaie, he is still 24 (younger than Mobali!) I would say that in a couple of years he can get much better with the right coaching direction and his own hard work and willing to improve.

correct on both counts

1- a win IN SKorea is NOT impossible, but I think improbable

2- shojaei still has some time to realize his true potential and become a complete player.
but today, he is not.

[BehzadB]

^ I diagree on the game's importance to teams.

1- NKorea is @ 10 points with a home game vs Iran and an away vs ksa.

2- Iran is @ 6 points and has an away game at NKorea , home vs uae, away vs SKorea

if we draw this one, NKorea = 11
Iran = 7

isnt that leaving MORE things to chance , like a draw between NKorea & ksa would ensure BOTH OF THEM advancing ... which is acceptable to BOTH teams ... meaning both coaches have this "amicable draw" viable option on their table ( as compared to a situation where ONE will be eliminated so at least an "amicable draw" will not be on neither coach's table) ??
ie: NKorea =12 ,
Ksa = 11 ( even if they lose to SKorea )
Iran = 10


leaving us with the improbable task of WINNING AT SKOREA ( even taking a uae defeat as granted ... which is certainly not a wise idea ) !!!!

na behzad jan, like it or not between us and NK, it is THEM who fare better in case of a draw.

of course if you count the south korea game as a loss or a tie, then we can't have a tie with NK.. but South Korea will have already advanced to the WC by then and they won't need the game. that's no small detail.

Obviously a win in all 3 games is best but one point there and 3 points against an unmotivated Korean team should be good enough to get us at least to the playoffs.

for North Korea, however, they have one game at home and a tough one away, and against a tough team that needs that game.

that's why I said that a tie is more damaging to them than it is to us.

[Doctor DOOM]

yes, ANYthing is possible

but first, I doubt SK would be THAT unmotivated, afterall, their victory would help their neighbor NK , with whom they share quite a few sports-related close ties.
secondly, I dont think they would be that weak anyway, especially at home.

so if u ask me, getting a win in NK seems less improbable or impossible than in SK

==============

and it is basically this laxity and lack of urgency on the part of TM leaders and staff that has ended us in the soup.
by always thinking "we have time to recover if something goes wrong" or postponing the need to kill off the qualifiers to the farthest day as possible !!!!

if daei behaved as he spoke and acted towards finishing the campaign BEFORE the final 3 games, he'd have acted differently against uae in uae, SK in Iran and definitely ksa in Iran .... with reference to his general team tactics, line ups, selection, substitutions, ... etc!!!

they kept on saying "losing or dropping points in this game isnt the end of it all" and kept on putting more pressure on the final set of games and making those games even more influential than they shd have been.

I like SK in trying to finish the job ASAP, so they can relax in the end and not wait for "amma o agar"s ... like us !

[zzgloo]

Ghotbi ,on his press conference said what we all had said often......
He said : We do not have a classic stricker,nor central defender,nor classic left back .........
But, many of us, including myself, keep forgetting these fact, in our suggestions, as how TM should be set up.

Those limitations are facts, and we need to act and design accordingly.......
that means, we,TM, needs to go with an un-ortudox style.......therefore, useing any creative options to compensate for our short comeing.....
Hence....useing Midfilders , either in forward position, or on defense should not be out of question.
We can not, and should not, have classic set ups !