My opinion regarding Ghotbi!!!

[Martin-Reza]

^ Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see why I should suppose there would be personal feelings involved from the beginning, just because there have been reports from TM camp in 2006 that Daei and Karimi had some issues.

There are loads of logical and sporting reasons for a coach not to invite Karimi for the KSA match, so I don't see why repeatedly immediately the simple fact that Karimi was not invited is automatically equalled to Daei having personal issues with Karimi by os many people. This simply is not a logical conclusion. It's a possible option.

[zzgloo]

Majid Jaan, Martin e Aziz.....Thank you both, for careing to respond to my post regarding Daei.......
I have no claim I am right, even 50% of the times.............As I do admit I could very well be wrong about whole lot of Issues.......,including Daei..

It is also possible ,you two, ( who in this particular case ,think very much alike ), be wrong as well.....as it appears, you have common beliefe that :

A= all criticisms come from a same uncivilized source.
B= all critics are not qualified .

Which, I respect your opinion .....but please do not expect me to give them any more value,than you do of mine.....as it does not appear you state them with any less certainty/ or additional proof.
.................................................. ............................................
In all manegerial possitions in Iran.....there is a triangle of Power Abuse,Lack of qualification,and disrespect for people.....and Daei was a typical example.........and I am sure, you ,yourself know of hundreds more.........................................that is my opinion, nothing more.

[IranJavidan]

How do you know that Daei has not interacted with the club ???

And in Karimi's case , how on earth can you even talk about grudges while all you have at your disposal is material from proven corrupt and controversial media ??

Even if he invited Karimi for that match . how can you prove that Iran would have won the game ??

How many times Karimi have saved Iran from Defeat or lead the team to relative success ???

Everyone seems to speculate ....nothing but speculate and in doing so , the real issues are hardly tackled. Those who speculate think that they have identified the problem and the solutions would have been in things like If Ali Daei did this...or If Ali Daei invited that !!!"

Of course the same or something similar will occur to Ghotbi as well , like it did to Ghalenoei , Branko , Ciro , Talebi..........And guess what happens at the end of the day ???

If deep rooted and real problems are not addressed , failures will continue , and the same Khale bazi will prevail. Instead of addressing the problems in Iran's football analytically , professionally , methodically and competently people engage in tabloid media type approach such as Hashiye (trivial matters) , confrontational substances ( verbal fights et le ' Mayeli Kohan) and balme culture.


Fat chance this nation will progress with this mentality.

I understand your points and agree with you. Especially when you stress the importance of professionalism and doing things the right way (Which is why I haven't changed the red part of my signature for two years now.)I doubt that every single news item in the Iranian sports media is false and based on specualtions. One has to use his/her judgement I guess to accept what's out there. And I'm not the type to spend time reading he said she said in the sports media of Iran.

What I meant by "interaction with other club managers" was simply referring to interviews and/or news conferences by some of the coaches. I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it, just that I felt that Daei was somewhat alone on this vital mission, and that obviously has to do with the way he interacts, period.

And a few years back, when Karimi was not playing his best football, there was absolutely no doubt whether his presence was necessary for the TM or not, BUT given the conditions that we were in prior to the Saudi game, and Karimi's satisfactory displays, there remains that big question mark. I personally think that Karimi's mere presence and his "touch" would've been a huge, much needed boost for us.


But I accept the fact that these types of issues are bound to happen with any coach that gets the job. And that looking back now will not solve anything.

Heck let's even assume that Ghotbi indeed takes us to the WC, and let's say we tie, win, and lose a game in the group stages there. Then what?

[maij]

I hope, our friends , do not reduce,the main criticism of Daei, only to Karimi situation......a coach has a right to bring any one he wants......
The problems with Daei, have much broader magnitudes.....
" Hezbullahi style ", Total abuse of power, and playing games with " Power ", while there is no job qualification !........
takeing the limits of a coach's power to the Max,like no other coach in our history...., rediculing the wishes of masses/media ................
It is the story all around Iran, in many aspects of life..........
We are , all too familiar with " The Triangle " of ::
Non-Job qualification=======Power Abuse=========Disrespecting people.

You say a lot of good things , but when the subject is about Daei , you seem to loose it completely and you turn into a completely different character ......I don't understand why and to be honest I don't want to know as the subject is like beating a dead horse to death !!

Like I said....unless this nation , and that includes you people who have learned one or two things living or being brought up in a different and more civilized and orderly environment, unless you use your brain more than heart....there is a fat chance .....

[Martin-Reza]

^ With all due to respect, that are more general slogans than actual specific facts.

You make real world observations, make up explanations for those, and then act as if your explanations would be facts.

They are not. How did Daei abuse his power?

He was national team coach and his duty was to invite those players he thinks are most suitable, and that is what he did. Everything else is speculation.

[zzgloo]

I hope, our friends , do not reduce,the main criticism of Daei, only to Karimi situation......a coach has a right to bring any one he wants......
The problems with Daei, have much broader magnitudes.....
" Hezbullahi style ", Total abuse of power, and playing games with " Power ", while there is no job qualification !........
takeing the limits of a coach's power to the Max,like no other coach in our history...., rediculing the wishes of masses/media ................
It is the story all around Iran, in many aspects of life..........
We are , all too familiar with " The Triangle " of ::
Non-Job qualification=======Power Abuse=========Disrespecting people.

[maij]

Simple answer, he probably couldn't save the match or maybe he could, but I am certain that he could save Daei's job.

The matter is now history and noone can prove the other one is wrong.

BUT....surely the onus is on the person who claims to prove his claim NOT the other way round..

I did not claim anything ..those who think that Karimi would have saved our civilization have to prove it , not me

[Hajagha]

Even if he invited Karimi for that match . how can you prove that Iran would have won the game ??

Simple answer, he probably couldn't save the match or maybe he could, but I am certain that he could save Daei's job.

The matter is now history and noone can prove the other one is wrong.

[Martin-Reza]

^ Thanks, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[maij]

Now I don't care who said what, I just know that Daei did not have proper interactions with the clubs, and in Karimi's case, he unfortunately let his own personal grudges obstruct the NATIONAL team's path to relative success.

How do you know that Daei has not interacted with the club ???

And in Karimi's case , how on earth can you even talk about grudges while all you have at your disposal is material from proven corrupt and controversial media ??

Even if he invited Karimi for that match . how can you prove that Iran would have won the game ??

How many times Karimi have saved Iran from Defeat or lead the team to relative success ???

Everyone seems to speculate ....nothing but speculate and in doing so , the real issues are hardly tackled. Those who speculate think that they have identified the problem and the solutions would have been in things like If Ali Daei did this...or If Ali Daei invited that !!!"

Of course the same or something similar will occur to Ghotbi as well , like it did to Ghalenoei , Branko , Ciro , Talebi..........And guess what happens at the end of the day ???

If deep rooted and real problems are not addressed , failures will continue , and the same Khale bazi will prevail. Instead of addressing the problems in Iran's football analytically , professionally , methodically and competently people engage in tabloid media type approach such as Hashiye (trivial matters) , confrontational substances ( verbal fights et le ' Mayeli Kohan) and balme culture.


Fat chance this nation will progress with this mentality.

[IranJavidan]

I don't get where Daei was stubborn on Karimi. First Karimi was suspended by IFF, then he announced his resignation from TM, so I assume you mean the KSA game, when, to my knowledge, Karimi was still suffering from an injury which had kept him out of action for 3 weeks and then troubled him for another 2 weeks (in which he probably desperately tried to show to Daei he was fit in ACL, but at least couldn't convince me), and then not even allowing him to play in the league in the round after the KSA game even.

Martin e Aziz:

After their initial "bache-bazi", they finally agreed to sit down together at their own will, and talk.

After the Saudi game, Khodadad Azizi announced that he was the one who mediated between the two stars, and Daei had agreed to finally invite Karimi, and Karimi even had said that he's at the team's service, but surprisingly, he did not get invited.


Now I don't care who said what, I just know that Daei did not have proper interactions with the clubs, and in Karimi's case, he unfortunately let his own personal grudges obstruct the NATIONAL team's path to relative success.

[maij]

Majid jan, I didn't mean your view about Iranian football is exaggerated, I meant the difference of your view with "my view" is a bit exaggerated as you mentioned here that "I have already admitted" on many things you are saying here.

What differs us here is "action" of Daei regarding Karimi invitation on Saudi's game being called "principle" or "stabbornness". Since we both agree we were in a better position if we still had Daei as the TM manager.

Am I right?

OH...I got your drift, Reza Jan....And yes , you are right.

[Hajagha]

.

Majid jan, I didn't mean your view about Iranian football is exaggerated, I meant the difference of your view with "my view" is a bit exaggerated as you mentioned here that "I have already admitted" on many things you are saying here.

What differs us here is "action" of Daei regarding Karimi invitation on Saudi's game being called "principle" or "stabbornness". Since we both agree we were in a better position if we still had Daei as the TM manager.

Am I right?

[maij]

Well, this was a bit exaggerated from your side with all due respect. I never said Daei had to run a popularity contest and we talk about one of the best five players in IPL this year. What I am saying is inviting Karimi could have saved his job. As a matter of fact, not inviting Karimi was showing how much Daei holds grudge against Karimi.

Not every thing is black or white, actually life runs mostly in gray zone if you agree with me.

Wouldn't you be happier we still had a smoother Daei than all this Mailei and Qotbi and good knows next move of IFF?

Cheers

[Martin-Reza]

^ I pretty much agree. I think he might be tempted to put Nouri as CM beside Teymourian, a player he knows well from PP and who is useful to have in the squad because he is an allrounder able to play in many positions. But that is my speculation now.

The backline seems the biggest mystery to me, especially the centrebacks.