Who is worse than animal Mr. Ghotbi? (An open letter to a fake emperor)

[Hadi]

Doostan, I am sorry for late reply as I was out of town. My involvement in multiple affairs often prohibits me to respond faster. Any how, there are a few important issues noticed here that I will address once I review the writings more closely.
Meanwhile, I have to also quicly address an issue that is growing gradually like a cancer as it has in regular forum with immature postings. I am asking "Hadi" and "Perspolees" to avoid posting immature contents in F+. Consider this your first and last warning, or we will take your posting priviliges in F+ forum and direct you to more relaxed forum for immature postings.
F+ was founded to maintain high quality and to stay free from such behavior. In particular, I am very disappointed for the direction our own PFDC staff Hadi that is intended to represent PFDC, has taken for the past year from a very mature personality that I respected and cherrised, to an immature poster with often one liners and foul languages.
Please avoid posting in this thread as it is intended for more serious and mature discussion, and reconsider your way of posting.
More posts on the original subject of the thread will follow soon, perhaps within a day or so.

Mansoor khan,

I do not think what I posted was immature. I was just attempting to bring some humor into the thread.

I personally do not have enough info regarding Ghotbi, and certainly not as much as you claim to have, so entering a debate with you regarding this issue will put me at a disadvantage, since most of what I have to say, is only from a fan's perspective and I lack the hard evidence, which you claim to have acquired in your journalistic research. So, as you suggested, and as I have done so far, I am staying clear of discussions on this topic and prefer just to read other comments and judge them myself.

But what I said, is true, and I couldn't help but express my belief. I, as a supporter of the club under discussion, believe that Ghotbi was no emperor, though, I count him as the best coach we have had in the past years. Do I need to make a 1/2 page post in order to convey the above message? Or do you expect people to write an essay in response to an open letter?

I have chosen to change my posting habits on PFDC for various reasons. I also understand the aim of F+ as I myself was involved in creating this forum back in the day. And since you have well and duly noted, I am not replying in a fashion that I used to, and often use 'one liners'. Hence, I have avoided posting in F+ forum as much as possible since I acknowledge what F+ posters want from this forum, and is certainly against my posting habit these days.

Mansoor khan, I am not a kind of person to read threats and ignore them (if in fact what you said was a threat aimed at me with regards to my F+ status). So by all means, if you think that my post in this thread is 'garbage' or 'cancerous', then its best to treat cancer early and not play around with it. Even though I would have appreciated if you had reflected your discontent with my PFDC posts privately, before making them public.

Mokhlesim,

[leviathan]

I have been reading this thread for a few days and like to say a few things.

F+ Forum is a moderation free and non regulated forum and we are not readily able to delete, edit, or close threads here.

This was done intentionally as a privilege and respect to members of this forum, so that people here can discuss, disagree (and protest if necessary) in a polite, mature manner.

As I have mentioned before starting a personal attack and an insult is often followed by retaliation and more disrespectful comments.

“Effate kalam” in F+ forum does not just mean “ you can say whatever you want in whatever tone “ as long as you don’t use profanity.
Our words can be just as insulting by the tone of the comment and by the content of the comment and by selection of our words.
I also believe it is an insult to post a comment here saying who deserves to be here and who does not publically.
So Let’s try harder to keep this place what is intended to be :
A place for higher quality posts especially if we disagree with post contents.

I don’t care if the Author is Mansoor, Ali Chicago, Maij, Dr Doom or whomever.
Do not respond to other posters here with disrespect.

Diciplinary actions will be takens against those who violate their freedom in F+.

[Hadi]

^ I agree. And I do believe perspolees's posts in this thread (not in content but in wording) have been against the conventions of F+ forum and passed the line of politeness.

[zzgloo]

I also believe it is an insult to post a comment here saying who deserves to be here and who does not publically.

This is so true.....and I must admit, I should not have done that...and I do apologize to " perspoleese " for doing that......
I had never done such thing, and I will never do either !!!,and it was just a first and last time.......................
..............
PS, I wrote this post to be true to, my own standards, not PFDC's !!
...............

[Mansoor]

Agha Hadi,

and I must re-state Agha because what you just posted was more like Agha Hadi I knew.

First and most I must say I did not use the word garbage, and the cancer was not intended to be you but the drop of quality of forums by immature posting. Once immature posting starts to be regular, some other follow as they found it to be "the way" or amusing and "that grows like a cancer".

In regard to your objection to the quality of your post, had you posted what you just did to describe your point of view, it would have definitely fit into F+ posting "expectations", particularly from Agha Hadi I knew. Posting a long and big picture with maze paroonieh bimored has been like a cancer that has got into your better personality via your daily involvement in regular forum. That's what we usually see from immature members in forums as they simply have nothing else to say and simply are not capable of posting logic as they often lack due to their immature nature.

Unfortunately, we do have a few of these immature kids and grown up kids running around the forums freely what such daily behavior, and have got u used it as to be "ok" to do. Not that I am against humor; in fact in real life you probably would find me with humorous talks than serious talks to lighten our daily life, but I believe there is a time and place for everything and of course there is a limit to it. This topic is a very serious topic involving issues that I found it to be my duty to inform public, particularly those who have open and fair mind to read and decide for themselves rather than being stuck on "since I said so, it will be so regardless".

Many thanks to take your time to challenge me otherwise which you very well did. Please don't forget that you have been a PFDC rep in many occasions, and actually part of PFDC being from get go, and this site needs "agha Hadi" ha to stay alive despite what you see as the change in cyber space. Don't forget that the strong being changes the environment around him/her, and does not let the change of environment changes him/her.

Movafagh bashin.

====

Doostan, please be a bit patient with my responds as even this post was taking my busy schedule here upon my return.

I will post in 3 topics, one to discuss more personal matters with Ali agha that he objected to (not Ghotbi's personal life but things he took personally and object to), two to discuss and clarify the letter itself one more time from different perspective, and three once again address my interest in Ghotbi topic (!?) eventhough I feel a bit silly to even explain myself in such trivial subject any further.

Most of you have the luxury of posting at times quickly and briefly but unfortunately I have been stripped from that luxuary due to my responsiblities and the level of expectation from readers. So, I have to be careful on what I write as one misunderstanding leads to tons of objections, posts, private exchanges, months of repeat of that misunderstanding, and else. So once again, my appology for delayed responds as I have to have free mind and free time before I can write and post.

[zzgloo]

I promised don't write anymore in this thread, but I promise to keep it short, it is not about Ghotbi and Mansoor, It is about the tactics and techniques one uses to argue his point. It is about the process and methods do you follow?
I can come and argue aginat your point here based on your post only. If I go and claim you were a dalal (without any proof, merely because I beleive so) or you have extramartial affairs or not or you stay married or just lived in with a girl, why you didn't go to Iran X number of years. That is not arguing my point. That is merely using unfair tactics.
IRI used the slandering tactics (of course in larger scale) when they arrested people. They brought Mahdi Hashemi to so called "confess" about his crimes and eventually executed him. The brought Saidi Sirjani to so called "confess" about being a Teryaqi addict or even they made him to confess to Lavat. Personal aspects of people's life was used to argue against their point of view. They didn't argue against Hashemi, Montazeri or Saidi Sirjani point of view.
Had Mansoor, wrote an open letter how there were no tactical variety in PP under Ghotbi and criticized him about that, I would have been the first one to agree with him. The tactic he used is the issue not Mansoor or Ghotbi's integrity or personal merits or dismerits.

Ali Jaan, as always, I agree with " The Moral " of your post !!!!!
And I hope,and believe, Mansoor , will , too !!!

[Hajagha]

very shocking post to say the least. I am a bit confused. with all due respect to Mansoor khan, are you happy he is gone? Or you are mad that he resigned? You can't have both sides.

First I should say, I have never been a Ghotbi supporter, but I see personal attack on private life here, why?

As long as I am concerned, there was a contract between two parties who signed it, they must be happy about the items in the contract, that's why they signed it, right? I don't understand the issue about the country's money as we all know this doesn't fly much.

Cheers,

[Ali Chicago]

I have been reading this thread for a few days and like to say a few things.

F+ Forum is a moderation free and non regulated forum and we are not readily able to delete, edit, or close threads here.

This was done intentionally as a privilege and respect to members of this forum, so that people here can discuss, disagree (and protest if necessary) in a polite, mature manner.

As I have mentioned before starting a personal attack and an insult is often followed by retaliation and more disrespectful comments.

“Effate kalam” in F+ forum does not just mean “ you can say whatever you want in whatever tone “ as long as you don’t use profanity.
Our words can be just as insulting by the tone of the comment and by the content of the comment and by selection of our words.
I also believe it is an insult to post a comment here saying who deserves to be here and who does not publically.
So Let’s try harder to keep this place what is intended to be :
A place for higher quality posts especially if we disagree with post contents.

I don’t care if the Author is Mansoor, Ali Chicago, Maij, Dr Doom or whomever.
Do not respond to other posters here with disrespect.

Diciplinary actions will be takens against those who violate their freedom in F+.

Well said. While on this, I would like to publicly request from Agha Mansoor to ease up on certain words which to me it seemed as sarcasm. I am maybe not as quick or smart or quickly catch up with issues. If that is the case please explain it to me rather than comments like u used in the other thread. This is a mere request, not trying to over dramatize it. Despite all my difference with Mansoor in the past, he is a knowledgeable respectable member of media and even more importantly a knowledgeable football fan. Not trying to apple shine or taaroof, I really mean it. The same high regards I have for Agha Mansoor probably caused my response in Ghotbi related thread.

Without any pacheh khari and excuse my FRENCH KHAYEH MALI, I found F+ member among the elite of Iranians I have come across (well not in real life yet). You all in one way or other represent the best of what Iran has (this is an honest opinion without Iranian Taaroof). Our difference at times might apparently overshadows this deeply held belief of mine.

[maij]

I have been reading this thread for a few days and like to say a few things.

F+ Forum is a moderation free and non regulated forum and we are not readily able to delete, edit, or close threads here.

This was done intentionally as a privilege and respect to members of this forum, so that people here can discuss, disagree (and protest if necessary) in a polite, mature manner.

As I have mentioned before starting a personal attack and an insult is often followed by retaliation and more disrespectful comments.


Our words can be just as insulting by the tone of the comment and by the content of the comment and by selection of our words.
I also believe it is an insult to post a comment here saying who deserves to be here and who does not publically.

A place for higher quality posts especially if we disagree with post contents.


Do not respond to other posters here with disrespect.

Diciplinary actions will be takens against those who violate their freedom in F+.

Iraj Jan.

While in principle I agree on what you said, let us also be frank here and ask ourselves a few questions on why some of the threads have deteriorated in quality and content.

The fact that this forum is supposedly a mature forum where people have freedom of expression without policing and moderating is precisely the reason way some posters had the nerves to exceed the line of decency and acted in a manner that is simply not acceptable, without fear of being cautioned, banned or even questioned.

Let us face it , this is a shortcoming that needs to be addressed in the staff forum.

I also have an opinion about what Bahram said regarding "Who let you in in F+". Despite his apology, I think as a highly regarded member, he is entitled to expect a certain standard of respect and decency. When he saw a post that was beyond that, he expressed his view and I truly believe that in the spirit of this forum, he should be allowed to question the standard of such illicit posting.

[Hadi]

Agha Hadi,
and I must re-state Agha because what you just posted was more like Agha Hadi I knew.
First and most I must say I did not use the word garbage, and the cancer was not intended to be you but the drop of quality of forums by immature posting. Once immature posting starts to be regular, some other follow as they found it to be "the way" or amusing and "that grows like a cancer".
In regard to your objection to the quality of your post, had you posted what you just did to describe your point of view, it would have definitely fit into F+ posting "expectations", particularly from Agha Hadi I knew. Posting a long and big picture with maze paroonieh bimored has been like a cancer that has got into your better personality via your daily involvement in regular forum. That's what we usually see from immature members in forums as they simply have nothing else to say and simply are not capable of posting logic as they often lack due to their immature nature.
Unfortunately, we do have a few of these immature kids and grown up kids running around the forums freely what such daily behavior, and have got u used it as to be "ok" to do. Not that I am against humor; in fact in real life you probably would find me with humorous talks than serious talks to lighten our daily life, but I believe there is a time and place for everything and of course there is a limit to it. This topic is a very serious topic involving issues that I found it to be my duty to inform public, particularly those who have open and fair mind to read and decide for themselves rather than being stuck on "since I said so, it will be so regardless".
Many thanks to take your time to challenge me otherwise which you very well did. Please don't forget that you have been a PFDC rep in many occasions, and actually part of PFDC being from get go, and this site needs "agha Hadi" ha to stay alive despite what you see as the change in cyber space. Don't forget that the strong being changes the environment around him/her, and does not let the change of environment changes him/her.
Movafagh bashin.
====
Doostan, please be a bit patient with my responds as even this post was taking my busy schedule here upon my return.
I will post in 3 topics, one to discuss more personal matters with Ali agha that he objected to (not Ghotbi's personal life but things he took personally and object to), two to discuss and clarify the letter itself one more time from different perspective, and three once again address my interest in Ghotbi topic (!?) eventhough I feel a bit silly to even explain myself in such trivial subject any further.
Most of you have the luxury of posting at times quickly and briefly but unfortunately I have been stripped from that luxuary due to my responsiblities and the level of expectation from readers. So, I have to be careful on what I write as one misunderstanding leads to tons of objections, posts, private exchanges, months of repeat of that misunderstanding, and else. So once again, my appology for delayed responds as I have to have free mind and free time before I can write and post.

Thanks for the reply Mansoor Khan,

I also have to admit, this post was more like the Mansoor i knew!
Maybe one day we can all get together and discuss this 'mess' of a football we have face to face.

I bet that would be really really fun and enlightening.

[perspolees]

Doostan, I am sorry for late reply as I was out of town. My involvement in multiple affairs often prohibits me to respond faster. Any how, there are a few important issues noticed here that I will address once I review the writings more closely.
Meanwhile, I have to also quicly address an issue that is growing gradually like a cancer as it has in regular forum with immature postings. I am asking "Hadi" and "Perspolees" to avoid posting immature contents in F+. Consider this your first and last warning, or we will take your posting priviliges in F+ forum and direct you to more relaxed forum for immature postings.
F+ was founded to maintain high quality and to stay free from such behavior. In particular, I am very disappointed for the direction our own PFDC staff Hadi that is intended to represent PFDC, has taken for the past year from a very mature personality that I respected and cherrised, to an immature poster with often one liners and foul languages.
Please avoid posting in this thread as it is intended for more serious and mature discussion, and reconsider your way of posting.
More posts on the original subject of the thread will follow soon, perhaps within a day or so.

what makes you believe that your posting is of highly mature and intelligent type and the one that calls it garbage is not?
Is that what you call maturity to call opposed opinions immature? and throw your moderator weight around with splashing warnings here and there?!

football plus certainly was not founded for speculation based criminalization or better yet animalization of honest working people that on the pitch have a ring for championship and you?
drunk in your own granted power of warning opposed minds!!?
first sign of maturity is to be able to tolerate criticism of your piece as well have you shown that ?

[perspolees]

^ I agree. And I do believe perspolees's posts in this thread (not in content but in wording) have been against the conventions of F+ forum and passed the line of politeness.

and the posting calling people animal?
and be kind as I asked the usual cult supporters where did I pass the line of politeness? by calling a piece of editorial garbage? nonesense, speculation based or what..

what is wrong with allegedly mature people of f plus forum
editorials could be harshly critical of people and coaches and so could be the counter effects and thoughts
you either have to have the stomach and the logic to talk it off or you can just throw your weight, badge or batton etc....

[Mansoor]

^ While back I realized we are "miles" apart in many aspects such as culture, logic, perspective and decided not to reason with you anymore. So, there is no hope for me to explain your emperor used the word animal not me, and called people like me questioning him "not human and worse than animal" and I am asking him "who is worse than animal" Mr Ghotbi. Does that make sense to you? perhaps not ... Any how, please assume you have won a thrash talk debate and move on. Thanks.

[Mansoor]

Part one: Respond to Ali Agha in regard to the matters he took personal

Well, Ali Agha, I am sort of glad your brought this up:

Over and over you insult me with the kind of stuff I bolded and it is fine. We show our own strips. I disagreed with your post and never questioned your level of undrestanding and intelligence. We really show our own strips, when we hear about a different opinion from ours. I don't expect much from 16 emotional 16 year olds in the main forum but from a middle age man of your stature expectation is higher.

While on this, I would like to publicly request from Agha Mansoor to ease up on certain words which to me it seemed as sarcasm. I am maybe not as quick or smart or quickly catch up with issues. If that is the case please explain it to me rather than comments like u used in the other thread.

May I ask if this isn’t something you have constantly done to Ala? Are you criticizing me above or your own persistant act. Do you “show your own strips when you hear about a different opinion than yours” from Ala. Now please note that you are not saying who is right or wrong, or what is fact or not, but rather protesting that such behavior (that you have shown in near 100 occasions and posts against not only Ala but also others) is not appropriate. But now that you feel how they have felt, you are protesting to it. Honestly, I didn’t mind to let you see and feel how Siavash felt here:

LOL @ Trader!!!! I guess you mean traitor right? Guess Ala found it's match in reading between the lines and discoverin conspiracy between the lines of the newspapers.

Kar Kare Egnlisast. Ghasem booroo oon aftabeh roo poor kon bezar dame Maval.

it isn't about the English class. it is about one putting some level of minimum quality in our post to make sure post is undrestood by others.

Were those sheklaks necessary? Laughing directly AT someone for writing something not his language or at least native language? And repeatedly and adding sarcasm? Is this justified “for” you but not “to” you? Is this the fairness and balance you are asking me about? How about me looking at your very first post in this thread and bring up your errors instead:

Well, it is a free country and everyone can express himself afer all. IMO, the whole letter is based on three elements with a heavy focus on elments of private life of Mr. Ghotbi which IMO should not have brought onm. Let me elaborate on these three elements:
Ghotbi Hedayati negotiation:
First element is claims about the negotation between Ghotbi and Hedayti. At the get go, I was really disappointed to see the term "girlfried/wife". The fact that Korean's lady that is companion of Mr. Ghotgi is married to him or not, has nothing to do with nothing. To be frank, that is using the same standards that cerrain Komiteh persoannel

and then put bunch of same sheklaks here?

Well, that is how you made someone perhaps half of your age felt while he had something that he thought important to say ...

Any how, you have done it not only to them but also to me from different perspectives and with a “panbeh” in many occasions including this thread, followed by set of nice words. Let’s review your respond basically targeted at me:

You said my writing reminds you of religious police. You said that I have different standard when it comes to Ghotbi. Regarding your past posts about Mr. Ghotbi, this letter isn’t surprising (sarcasm at it’s best?). You are bias. Let me say it “sarbasteh”: It seems Ghotbi was a potential threat to certain folks in Iranian football. Now they don’t have to worry about a potential successor. You even went as far as labeling it "the same tactic IR have used to execute people" !!!!????

Naturally my respond to the series of sarcasm and direct attack is to say “well, it is up to your level of understanding and intelligence” to figure it out “if you really think this wrong” and “have turned your focus on me rather than such an important issue”. That was the most polite way for me to respond to your initial set of similar attempt to discredit someone to maintain your perspective as you often have done to Ala and a few others in the past.

Is it smart that you ask repeatedly to provide proof for dallal bazi? Really? Is that possible? Let me guess, two people make an under the table deal and then take a “akse yadgardi” with the deal and smile in their face and then send it to me to publish. Or, they leave notes for me to find, or send me the copy of their email. Should I become pink panther and leave my life alone and go into serious private investigative job and break into people’s houses and offices looking for extremely private information? How is it that “circumstantial evidence” is acceptable to you on the subjects you agree but not others?

There is a saying in English, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck it must be a duck. There are circumstantial evidences, but I ever doubt we will find a piece of paper that Mr. Daie has signed in which, I am not going to invite Kia because I hate him personally and due to WC2006 events I want to revenge.

Bias? Fair? Sarcasm? You be the judge ...

[Mansoor]

Part Two: One more attempt to clarify the letter, the contents, and character/personal life

Once again, this was an open letter with lots of questions. Ghotbi had directly attacked those who were questioning his role in transfer of useless player(s) from South America. He said some of you “ensan nistin” and “a human would not do what you are doing and you are worse than animal”. It is no secret that I had questioned him as well, particularly about dallal bazi and his supporting cast (still available at PFTV), and certainly would fit into “some of you”.

Knowing him well, my response was “Really Mr. Ghotbi? How about we look at you and ask you who is worse than animal?” This title used Ghotbi’s own language against him to show how low his language was. And how hypocrite his statement might be, when we review his character. Particularly since he had become a self-proclaimed advocate of humanity and good character.

I simply asked questions from all kind of aspects to see “who is worse than animal”. I asked him to tell us about a good character and let us learn about what a good human is and does, and who is worse than animal that he has advocated.

He didn’t talk about football then when he used such language to escape from legitimate questions. He didn’t answer the questions by the reporters but rather went outside football and brought up the issue of humanity and animality. Well, Mr Ghotbi; Let’s look at your character and your past, your family, your co-workers from management to coaching staff, your players, your die hard fans and discuss humanity and animality. Why would he set the rules and the boarder line since he has opened it widely to outside football and discuss humanity and animality; Let’s question you and find out who is worse than animal that YOU have advocated.

The whole “multi million dollar Ghotbi campaign” by his cast and himself was about “mazloom namaei” and “bozorg namaei” and implemented well. Use “mazloom namei” when in trouble, and use “bozorg namaei” when doing well (mainly due to others contribution). He used “mazloom namei” to run away from the question about transfer of players, and once again put this comical show of “Messiah vs bunch of animals”. Same “mazloom namei” when his team was failing and ran away with “I am a victim and I can't stand it anymore”. Looking at his track record including personal life was a way to see if this was an act of a victim or a same trend seen before.