against both perspolis and esteghlal, he played LM and that was bargh's strong side in both games and they made some great plays and passes from the left.
so im not bending reality.
so im not bending reality.
-
Originally posted by siavasharian -
Let see how our team does against South Korea in Tehran. Not the time and energy to engage into two page anwers. But this post is inaccurate. Go watch the game against China, out team fell behind 2 goals and we really pushed Chineese back. Same with Uzbakistan. Malayzia we had like frigging 10 opportunities to score.Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post
The whole Korea B thing, is inaccurate too, can someone say curent TM team is B team, because current players arent' teh same player that played for Iran in AFC? Iran beat Korea with a goal from Hossein Badamaki, and to my knowledge Badamaki was never Fix in the team melli. So point is Iran played new faces too in Tehran.
Even in Seoul, you saw despite the pressure from Kora after falling 1-0 Iran came back and battled the second half in Seoul. We will see this team in Seoul. We saw this team in UAE couple of months ago, scored one goal by Zandi and 70 minutes defending.
GN era was an era that he and the team were under immense pressure by the newspapers (we all know about How Mazdak Mirzai openly ciriticized GN to the point that GN threatened he won't talk to the Shabakeh 3, not saying he was right to do that, just saying how bad it was).
I am willing to bet you any amount of money, the current TM fell behinds 2 goals after 35 minutes to a good team and let's see how this team will come back.
Read my other posts, I am not blaming Daie for all of this and not going to engage into Daie vs. GN. Stats speak for itself in the coaching. Amazing how some members are so defensive when it come to Mr. Daie (despite I started the paragraph saying this isn't all on Daie)."When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)
Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
sigpicComment
-
i have read all ur posts, dont worry.Originally posted by Ali Chicago View Post
im sorry to disappoint u, neither did i provide my unconditional support to daei nor unconditional hatred towards ghalenoi. neither did i say it was all ghalenoi's fault, nor it was all daei's fault that we arent scoring too many goals.
amazing how certain members always prejudge other members.
u can bet all u want, just like ur previous bets where u said korea will demolish iran cos they beat UAE 4-1 and qatar is very weak cos they lost to australia 4-0 and inspite of that, the 2 drew 1-1 in a game that korea was by no way superior to qatar. while the same Iran team, comprising of only IPL players, beat qatar 1-0.
and i pointed out to the fact that u said, all our goals are being scored on set pieces or through nekounam but ghalenoi's team had the muscle to push them back. when a team leads 2-0 against a top asian team, naturally it pulls back.
now, here, im willing to bet that if uzbekistan or china score 2 goals on this team, they will also pull back and iran will push forward.
korea B team was B team because they were missing their legionnaires! so u go and watch the games again.
and there was and still is and there will always be immense pressure on TM during Daei's era as well.
and ghalenoi entered the asian cup with 1 year work with TM. im not sure if Daei has made it even past 6 months yet?? not to forget that daei has also introduced youngsters to the team with lil exprience and it was Daei who has to face the transition period of footballers from one generation to another unlike GN..
also to add that daei took over TM in a period, very close to the qualifiers and in a way, Daei's was tested from day 1 itself, but GN got a team well in advance. inspite of that, we were able to beat UAE 1-0 on their own turf and mised another 3 4 great opportunities, 2 by zandi himself right infront of the goal. on the other hand, saudi arabia with all the preparations and camps defeated UAE 2-1. that victory of 1-0 against UAE was great, no matter how we achieved it, cos our TM had just got a new coaching staff and transition of younger players was also being done at the same time and the only assignment at hand was to qualify to the next round.
now, im not interested in 2 page discussions either, so u can read my posts if u want.
meanwhile, we shall wait and hope for the best for TM.Originally posted by siavasharianComment
-
There was and always will be pressure against TM coach.
the difference between GN and Daei is that Daei is a master politician. He knows how to handle the crowd (at least lately he is getting there), or basically just ignores the criticism or lashes back on the critics, but he never budges to anyone (not yet).
IMO the pressure got to GN, he played 3-5-2 for a long time, then when he got heavily criticized, he switched to 4-3-3 in Asian cup, then when he met Korea in quarterfinal he switched back to his safe zone of 3-5-2.
also we cannot compare the Game Korea played against UAE to any other game. The fact is that, UAE changed their coach just before that game and the new coach changed many experienced players (mostly midfielders and defenders) in the UAE squad. The UAE midfield and defense was in disarray in that game and let the Koreans take control. Guess what, many of those players are called back now for the game Against TM. The Korean team is not the same strong team of 2002 anymore.Comment
-
He sure has strong backings, but as far as how he initially acted, I disagree with your comments about being a master politician. Recent moves of make over with Karimi and GN, shows a change but way long way from MASTER POLICTICAN.Originally posted by Mr.Good View Post"When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)
Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
sigpicComment
-
Could you clarify which bet i lost to you? And for the record I didn't say Korea will DEMOLISH our team, please don't put words in my mouth. I siad I am very worried after watching the Korea UAE game the way Korean played. I watched the game Korea and UAE and I dare anybody (the most hard core Daie fan who has a epsilon of "ENSAF", to watch that game between UAE and Korea and then watch IRAN UAE and if he wasn't worreid, I change my name to Sakeeneh. But if the did, then what? Again, I am not responsible for your interprtetation of my post( i.e. DEMOLISHING of IRAN BY KOREA).Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post"When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)
Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
sigpicComment
-
At the beginning he took the high road, signaled to everyone "Don't mess with me" . Honestly, some people in Iran deserve to be treated that way, specially the corrupted media.Originally posted by Ali Chicago View Post
But he also recently showed that he is fair and flexible. and I think the way he became friendly to some certain individuals was just a plot from him to shut them up. I still say he is a master politician, and the only person in Irannian football I can describe as a general Manager of a football team.Comment
-
u didnt have a bet with me in particular, but i recall u posting something along the lines of...Originally posted by Ali Chicago View Post
"this south korean team i saw against UAE will demolish iran if we play like this...."Originally posted by siavasharianComment
-
LOL. this is what I call bending the truth to suit our argument :
Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post
If daei got the team close to qualifiers, so did GN whose team was in the middle of the qualifiers too.
if daei got a bunch of players from here and there and didnt supposedly inherit a complete team, neither did GN, who not only got a disparate & desperate team but also a team with absolutely low morale and a defeated & divided team after the disaster of the WC ( no thanks to some zealots ).
if daei faced opposition, not only in the field from opponents but also from within Iran, so did GN. if daei got results away from home, so did GN. and so on and so forth.
lets not twist matters just becoz it suits us. ( much like zareh's position at bargh
... which for the past few years has always been on the right and sometimes in the center of midfield. one may "see" a player appear on or near the left of the pitch on a couple of occasions, but that doesnt make him a left mid player. hell even kia has been seen on the left, does that make him a left mid player ? )
honesty is far more important
===========================
and as Mrgood said, there is always pressure on the coach, no matter who.
the difference between GN and daei is not all that much either.
both dont like the media and both are attacked by the media.
both react negatively to media.
but the difference is GN behaves like a chaleh-meydoon thug, daei behaves like a bully.
Comment
-
oohh...ur right. the first game under Daei we lost was just a friendly, not a qualifier. my mistake...sorryOriginally posted by Doctor DOOM View PostLOL. this is what I call bending the truth to suit our argument :
If daei got the team close to qualifiers, so did GN whose team was in the middle of the qualifiers too.
if daei got a bunch of players from here and there and didnt supposedly inherit a complete team, neither did GN, who not only got a disparate & desperate team but also a team with absolutely low morale and a defeated & divided team after the disaster of the WC ( no thanks to some zealots ).
if daei faced opposition, not only in the field from opponents but also from within Iran, so did GN. if daei got results away from home, so did GN. and so on and so forth.
lets not twist matters just becoz it suits us. ( much like zareh's position at bargh... which for the past few years has always been on the right and sometimes in the center of midfield. one may "see" a player appear on or near the left of the pitch on a couple of occasions, but that doesnt make him a left mid player. hell even kia has been seen on the left, does that make him a left mid player ? )
honesty is far more important
===========================
and as Mrgood said, there is always pressure on the coach, no matter who.
the difference between GN and daei is not all that much either.
both dont like the media and both are attacked by the media.
both react negatively to media.
but the difference is GN behaves like a chaleh-meydoon thug, daei behaves like a bully.
but still,
when GN was assigned TM coach, he had 1 month to his first qualifier game against syria in tehran which made situation somewat easier on him cos it was a home game.
daei became TM coach 20 days before his first game, against kuwait, away in kuwait.
anyways, regardless of this, i wasnt undermining GN efforts and GN too had a difficult task at hand. but ali_chicago is complaining about iran beating UAE 1-0 away under Daei.
secondly,
i said, DAEI IS BRINGING ABOUT THE TRANSITION OF PLAYER GENERATIONS IN TM WHICH IS REQUIRED AND WAS NOT DONE BY PREVIOUS COACHES WHICH MAKES HIS TASK MORE DIFFICULT!
I never said, ghalenoi inherited a perfect squad! i said, ghalenoi had one of the strongest squads of TM at his disposal in asian cup 2007, a whole year after he became the head coach!
thirdly,
that was my reply to ali chicago's post of saying GN was under pressure from iranian media, so i said Daei is also under pressure and in this regard again, he isnt in a different situation than GN.
i totally agree with mr good. all TM coach has always been under pressure and have had to deal with a lot of non-football matters in iran, and thats i never hated any of our TM coach's, not even maelli kohan or shahrokhi..
fourthly,
sattar zareh played LM against both esteghlal and perspolis, both of which was broadcasted, neither right midfielder nor central midifleder, but as usual, u never accept anything other than ur opinion
so yea, i think someone here is twisting matters to suit their argument, but it aint me. i wasnt even participating in this discussion, but decided to post only when i felt ali_chicago was being unfair to daei, and that supposedly makes me defensive about daei
Originally posted by siavasharianComment
-
1-Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post1-
firstly,
when GN was assigned TM coach, he had 1 month to his first qualifier game against syria in tehran which made situation somewat easier on him cos it was a home game.
daei became TM coach 20 days before his first game, against kuwait, away in kuwait.
regardless of this, i wasnt undermining GN efforts and GN too had a difficult task at hand. but ali_chicago is complaining about iran beating UAE 1-0 away under Daei.
2-
secondly,
i said, DAEI IS BRINGING ABOUT THE TRANSITION OF PLAYER GENERATIONS IN TM WHICH IS REQUIRED AND WAS NOT DONE BY PREVIOUS COACHES WHICH MAKES HIS TASK MORE DIFFICULT!
3-
I never said, ghalenoi inherited a perfect squad! i said, ghalenoi had one of the strongest squads of TM at his disposal in asian cup 2007, a whole year after he became the head coach!
4-
thirdly,
that was my reply to ali chicago's post of saying GN was under pressure from iranian media, so i said Daei is also under pressure and in this regard again, he isnt in a different situation than GN.
fourthly,
sattar zareh played LM against both esteghlal and perspolis, both of which was broadcasted, neither right midfielder nor central midifleder, but as usual, u never accept anything other than ur opinion
so yea, i think someone here is twisting matters to suit their argument, but it aint me. i wasnt even participating in this discussion, but decided to post only when i felt ali_chicago was being unfair to daei, and that supposedly makes me defensive about daei
is this for real, or are you just joking?
X had 20 days, Y had 30 days to their first game.
massive difference , eh?
was that a point you were trying to make ?
this is getting borderline silly now !
but just to go along with this silliness:
you seem to have forgotten while daei had 20 days to ONE qualifier, GN had 30 days to TWO nearly back to back qualifiers south korea ( on one extreme end of asia, and after 4 days, syria, on the other extreme end of asia ... and do consider the transit, travel fatigue, jet lag, time-zone diff's, .... )
now, who had the more difficult task?
an advise: I'd stop it if I were you.
2- wow. this is really twisting matters.
so daei was in charge of a transition, but GN wasnt?
care to compare GN's roster in his first few games and that of WC squad?
were hosseini, aghili, shojaei, mobaali, roudbarian, E sadeghi, bengar, ........ a part of branko's WC team?
notice I've left out those temporary fellows also; A. sadeghi , fekri, .... to take it easy on this claim.
second chance to stop it before it gets too much
the fact is there is no difference between what each man ( daei & GN ) is doing in terms of transition and introduction of fresh blood into the team. no matter how we want to twist the truth.
3-
we used and still use the word "strongest" not based on performances of players, but their "names on paper".
we both know a lesser known rahmati has delivered far better games than the household name of ando, as an example. so those words are right out the window.
one may even bring in the issue of "morale" of our players into the question as well. after the WC, we saw the lowest levels of morale and confidence in our football, which GN had to deal with.
Daei had to deal with far smaller morale issues: lack of scoring goals.
4- I think ppl have seen some of zareh ( no thanks to irib ) and have read match reports to know where he plays.
maybe the next couple of bargh games they show can answer the question for you.Comment
-
1)Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post1-
is this for real, or are you just joking?
X had 20 days, Y had 30 days to their first game.
massive difference , eh?
was that a point you were trying to make ?
this is getting borderline silly now !
but just to go along with this silliness:
you seem to have forgotten while daei had 20 days to ONE qualifier, GN had 30 days to TWO nearly back to back qualifiers south korea ( on one extreme end of asia, and after 4 days, syria, on the other extreme end of asia ... and do consider the transit, travel fatigue, jet lag, time-zone diff's, .... )
now, who had the more difficult task?
an advise: I'd stop it if I were you.
2- wow. this is really twisting matters.
so daei was in charge of a transition, but GN wasnt?
care to compare GN's roster in his first few games and that of WC squad?
were hosseini, aghili, shojaei, mobaali, roudbarian, E sadeghi, bengar, ........ a part of branko's WC team?
notice I've left out those temporary fellows also; A. sadeghi , fekri, .... to take it easy on this claim.
second chance to stop it before it gets too much
the fact is there is no difference between what each man ( daei & GN ) is doing in terms of transition and introduction of fresh blood into the team. no matter how we want to twist the truth.
3-
we used and still use the word "strongest" not based on performances of players, but their "names on paper".
we both know a lesser known rahmati has delivered far better games than the household name of ando, as an example. so those words are right out the window.
one may even bring in the issue of "morale" of our players into the question as well. after the WC, we saw the lowest levels of morale and confidence in our football, which GN had to deal with.
Daei had to deal with far smaller morale issues: lack of scoring goals.
4- I think ppl have seen some of zareh ( no thanks to irib ) and have read match reports to know where he plays.
maybe the next couple of bargh games they show can answer the question for you.
in any new environment, 10 days makes a big difference!
whether it is a new work place, new school, new university, new neighbourhood or in this case, new coaching staff, 10 extra days of observation, analysis, studying, coaching, implementation of ideas and tactics, etc does make a big difference!
now these same 10 days wont be very significant after a coaching staff has worked with his team for more than a year or so, but right in the beginning, YES, 10 DAYS IS A LOT OF DIFFERENCE AND A LOT OF WORK CAN BE DONE IN 10 DAYS! so its not at all silly!
however, the mistake i made was, i totally forgot that under daei too, we had a friendly before our qualifier against UAE. i was under the impression that the game against UAE in azadi was daei's first game and as u can see, i had already checked it up and appologized for it.
2)the first few games list of both GN and Daei are irrelevant because they both invited a lot of players from their own clubs as they needed time to observe and analyse the rest of the players from other IPL teams. so lets not make the first few games squad as a reference point plz??
A.H Sadeghi, mobali, shojaei, roudbarian, shakouri, bengar etc were all previously invited to TM camp by branko. they may or may not have made it to the final worldcup squad, but they were invited to different TM camps in different intervals and were known to the whole country as potential TM players even before GN invited them.
now compare them to the likes of majid gholam nejad , gholam reza rezaei, ehsan hajisafi, mohsen khalili, seyed salehi, mohammad reza khalatbari, jalal rafkhaei, who are all gonna be carrying TM on their shoulders very soon once the likes of hashemian, karimi, kia, rezaei all retire....
how many different IPL no names are being invited to TM camp under Daei from all different IPL clubs?? The "angize" that daei has created in IPL for players to be invited to TM was not something any of the previous coach's had done..had u ever seen sooo many new faces in TM camps of the previous coaches compared to Daei's camps???
just because GN invited a few new players to TM doesnt mean the transition he did was of the same intensity as Daei's!!
yet u see the 2 situations similar....!!
3)no, those words are not outside the window.
the same ando is having a worse performance now under Daei than GN's days.
u wanna compare rahmati, compare him with roudbarian. wat rahmati is doing today, roudbarian was doing during GN's time and many fans were worshipping him and wat rahmati was doing that time, roudbarian is doing now (basically doing nothing)
while some players are performing now during Daei's time, there were others who were performing that time during GN's time!
the squad GN invited was based on his own choice and except for the first few games, the rest, he resorted back to almost every legionnaire iran had, in europe and in persian gulf countries.
so even if u think it wasnt the strongest squad, again, it was noone elses choice but GN himself.
players, specially legionnaires dont make a name for themselves out of nothing. they have worked hard, proven themselves and earned it in real life and not just paper. their performance cant be easily discarded. even when not on top form, they have the ability to change a game in a matter of few seconds out of an entire 90 minutes...something not every player can do!
the fact that:
-never before had iran had so many legionnaires playing outside iran at one point and the fact that almost all these legionnaires were part of TM
-and at the same time, not many young or inexpierenced players were part of the squad, so we had a matured squad,
can be a very good indication that the past few years of TM has been one of the strongest squads ever.
4)or can show the answer to u....Originally posted by siavasharianComment
-
I dont see much point in going over the same things over & over again.
so I'll be telegraphic as possible.
2- both men did have a hand in transition.
like it or not, mere calling X to camp but not playing them does not mean "transition". you seem to bend matters at will here by trying to count aghili's hosseini's, E sadeghi's, ........... to branko.
but reality is a different matter.
GN caused as much transition as daei is doing right now. kudos to both of them. but that's a natural phase that all teams go through.
.... unless a coach is either too dumb or too wimpy to resist such things
3- all those comparisons are "SUBJECTIVE" matters.
what one thinks of rahmati now, could be very different from what he thought of roudi . or other examples.
4- wish I had all those vid clips or paper clippings to prove that zareh has been a right mid player more or less always, with some games in the central mid.
but then again, I'd suffice to "we'll watch the next bargh games".
not convincing enough?
cant be helped.
Comment
-
the fact is, branko had called many of those players GN invited earlier as well, so they were not a bunch of no names, unlike gholamnejad, gholam reza rezaei, khalatbari and rafkhaei whom hardly anyone knew etc...Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View PostI dont see much point in going over the same things over & over again.
so I'll be telegraphic as possible.
2- both men did have a hand in transition.
like it or not, mere calling X to camp but not playing them does not mean "transition". you seem to bend matters at will here by trying to count aghili's hosseini's, E sadeghi's, ........... to branko.
but reality is a different matter.
GN caused as much transition as daei is doing right now. kudos to both of them. but that's a natural phase that all teams go through.
.... unless a coach is either too dumb or too wimpy to resist such things
and wats more, GN's team consisted of almost every iranian player outside IPL. the youngsters from IPL were just invited and given very little or no play time. in the end, the squad always consisted of the 5 euoprean legionnaiers, the usual 7 8 UAE players and the remaining slot was filled primarily by the usual IPL players anyways.
things are different now under Daei, and many critics and players have also mentioned it explictily. lots of new faces, lots of angizeh and representation among weaker IPL teams. lots of big names being left out at the same time.
hala mikhay ghabool bokon, mikhay nakono, begu im bending the truth.
that being said, i still mention, i in no way intend to undermine GN's efforts, he did invite new players to the camp too.
the only reason i posted was because i felt ali chicago was being to harsh on daei. i would have done the same if it was GN, ghotbi or anyone else.Originally posted by siavasharianComment
-
Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post
Don't mean to make this confrontational, but I would really like to see the post, that you are referring to above. I strongly doubt I use that term, in todays footballing world, even Maldive is a "Shakh" for South Korea or Malaysia lost 2-0 to us in AFC, so Korea- Iran game won't be a route 99% of the times.
I reiterate though, if Korea plays the way they played against UAE and out team plays the way we played against N. Korea or KSA, we will have troubles against South Korea. Maybe it is my bias, but I am honestly worried very much against UAE tomorrow."When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)
Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
sigpicComment
Comment