Navad & Ferdowsipour …Conduct unbecoming.

[RaginG Inferno]

Agha Majid,
After the elimination of Iran, Adel rediculed GN in the show he had about post mortum of Iran's elimination in AFC. While Zolfaghar Nasab and other guest (maybe it was Korbekandi, I don't recall), asked fair questions, Adel was doing what he is best at "Journalisem" the tabloid way. Where were you guys then.

It's interesting you raise this point; there was a huge thread about that interview, and I was a vocal critique of Ferdowsipour's conduct in that interview. See the end of the thread, for particular examples. I managed to find it(you started the thread!):

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48670

In any case, let's not get too sidetracked; I think we all agree that Ferdowsipour's conduct needs to improve.

[maij]

Ghotbi has accused Ferdowsipour of ganging against him.

Afshin Ghotbi is bitter about Ferdowsipour

پاي

[maij]

At last , the S**t hit the fans , as they say.

It seems that Ferdowsipour has enraged far many officials and both IFF and Tarbiyat Badani are confronting Navad program and at least they are staying away and not collaborating with the production team or Ferdowsipour himself.

I doubt that IFF or STB , have the power to ban Navad out right. IRIB itself has a lot of clout in Iran and the head is a powerful personality. He has the support from the top. However, we might be facing a situation where Navad will continue, but without Ferdowsipour. This might ease the tension a bit.


We have discussed the merits of the situation fully in this thread. I think many people support Ferdowsipour just because he is what we call Anti-Establishment rather than being a formidable or a fair critic. I personally have a lot of respects for Adel's knowledge, perseverance, and demands for answers from the establishment. But there is a dark side to all that. His "Arrogance" is mind boggling. His conviction that whatever he thinks is right should be implemented is just irresponsible and unprofessional. There is a fine line between personal opinions and facts or reality.

His peculiar mentality and passion for making two opposing sides confront each other live in the program is regrettable. He simply enjoys people having a verbal fight and perhaps he is catering for the feeling of a nation who loves such encounters!!!....To me, that is wrong and a direct invasion of personal privacy. It is one big shame. Sportsmen and administrators should not air their differences on TV programs. Dialogue and discussion privately is a much civilized way to deal with such differences.

This post match analysis of referees is yet another example of the pitiable mentality of the program. When the most skillful , talented and experienced referees in the world commit mistakes and error of judgment on daily basis , I feel their Iranian counterparts are being victimized , ridiculed and undermined by such program. I hasten to say , that NOT all of so-called Navad refereeing experts analysis are accurate and correct either.


On the whole, I hope that NAVAD continues as a rich source of materials for all Persian football lovers, but frankly, it cannot go on with such confrontational andprovocative manner.

[Hadi]

the only reason why the government (tarbiyat badani) cant tolerate navad, is that they CAN NOT accept ANY criticism (even mild ones, and even in the field of football) and the Iranian government DOES NOT want anyone or anything to question and challenge them.

No matter how many faults the program has, it has been the only critical program on IR TV in the past 10 years. The show, even if on a small scale, reveals the shortcomings of Iranian management, the incompetence of Iranian governmental officials, and the absurdity of our country, even if only in the field of sports, and that is why it is getting closed.

[maij]

the only reason why the government (tarbiyat badani) cant tolerate navad, is that they CAN NOT accept ANY criticism (even mild ones, and even in the field of football) and the Iranian government DOES NOT want anyone or anything to question and challenge them.

No matter how many faults the program has, it has been the only critical program on IR TV in the past 10 years. The show, even if on a small scale, reveals the shortcomings of Iranian management, the incompetence of Iranian governmental officials, and the absurdity of our country, even if only in the field of sports, and that is why it is getting closed.

Well , I am not sure about the fact that the government does not accept criticism and its relation to Navad. It might or it might not depending on the circumstances.

Fact #1 : Nobody likes criticism , even those who claim they accept it.

Fact #2 : Both IRIB and STB are Government entities where policies are channeled right from the top. There is no doubt about that, and in a political regime such as Iran , it is strictly implemented.

Fact #3: Not every critical view is the correct or appropriate one.There is a million example in this board alone.


But something that you mentioned here, should really be the catalyst for Navad.

There are shortcomings, and lots of it. Ferdowsipour and Navad production team should work very hard on eliminating or minimizing it so that nobody could accuse them of their own faults. Else their judgment and views will always be flawed and open to all sort of counter criticism and accusations. As they say " Don't throws stones at your neighbor when your house is built from Glass..." or something towards that.


I still believe that Navad , with a change of approach and mentality , would serve the football community tremendously.

I don't believe that the one that shouts the loudest is the one who is right...This is law of the jungle.

[Hadi]

well, deciding if a criticism is fair or not, is another matter.

I am speaking about the "freedom to criticize". many people in the west don't like criticism, but they cant do anything about it. the press and media are given the freedom to criticize, regardless of fairness.

you are also right about the fact that both tarbiyat badani and IRIB are IR entities. But sometime, conflict of interest occurs even between two arms of our paradoxical government.

1) tarbiyat badani, is fully under the control of Dolat and the president, while IRIB is under the control of Khamaneyi which means more traditional (sonnati) hardliners and right wingers. although both Ahmadinejad (aka Sepah) and traditional conservatives are right wing in Iran, but they are highly critical of each other in many aspects. So I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't cooperate with each other over a TV program, or maybe even got into a kind of public battle over an issue like 90 (we have seen IRIB officials supporting 90 and adel already)

2)for IRIB, 90 has huge financial benefits. it is by far the most watched program on TV. besides, they are also much less sensitive about criticizing DOLAT, than tarbiyat badani.

Surely, adel ferdowsipour as an individual has many shortcomings and so does his show. But banning and bashing a media (which we have seen repeatedly under IR in banning newspapers and magazines) is not justifiable under any circumstance.

Anyway, I fully agree that Adel must self sensor and sacrifice his freedom of speech to some extent from now on. even if it means the program wont be as bold as it used to be. Anyone who lives under the IR, has to sacrifice some part of his freedom. Adel is no exception.

[Doctor DOOM]

On the whole, the program has been and is useful to our football.
The only problem is sometimes they engage in childish and immature provocations that are unnecessary.
But the fact that there is a popular program that brings up issues and talking points of each week of our football and often exposes our officials' deficiencies is good for us.

If ferdossipoor cleans up his childish act and gets a bit more mature, I'd say we'd have a very useful tool in our hands to force, expose and push our officials to more constructive approaches.

the last thing we need is for STB and IFF to think they can do whatever they want and can get away with it!

[maij]

Hadi Jan.... I am and always have been an advocate of freedom of speech, however , this is a broad statement and there are rules of ethics that MUST be attached to it, even in the most democratic of societies and political systems, one is bound.

In relation to NAVAD , I highly doubt that we will see the end of the program soon. Neither the sport nor the media (IRIB) will benefit from such an act of closing down the most popular of TV programs.

But like many of us said here , and I beg The Doc a pardon by quoting his words...Ferdowispour needs to clean his act. It does not matter if a person is an Akhond , A footballer or a stripper , each person has respect and ego and will not accept to be publically humilated. We Persians have a notch or two more ego than the West.

So , operating in such society , Adel needs to understand the feeling of the people he deals with. I don't think one needs to be an Einestein to figure out the shortcomins of the system in Iran , including sport in general. But if critiscm is applied in a civilized , non-confrontational and logical manner , then people might actually accept it , including akhonds.

I would not be too happy to see Adel go , but realisically speaking , his fate was in his own hands and he might have blown it. He could turn out being a victim of his own success.

On side not: One of the most annoying & irratating things that Adel had a habit of doing during his live match commentary when he repeatedly and in several matches said " Ein Borhani che Ghadr Gol namizaneh......!!" in a sarcastic tone. Saying this to million of viewers , I would have not been surprised if poor Arash would end up hanging his boots !!!

[Hajagha]

There is no doubt that “Navad” TV program has gained popularity to the extent that players, coaches and managers usually refer to the program to air their grievances ( typically against refereeing decision). The fact that “Navad” under the guidance of Adel Ferdoswipour covers Iranian league and Team Melli comprehensively has added to the popularity of this TV show.
However , the program is also facing many critics due to the controversial way that it is conducting and the illusions by many ordinary fans that what is presented on that program are facts rather than a point of view of a single person , Adel Ferdowsipour.

In a society were freedom of speech is rather curtailed unless those points of views are channeled or benefits the party line and favors government policies , I find a certain discrepancy and shortfalls in the way issues are presented and also in the way that the presenter conducts some of the interviews and polls.

For years , Navad has been having these so-called referees experts , who analyze the calls of referees in post event and express their personal opinions based on TV clips which by itself leaves a lot to be desired. Such critiques has obviously not helped improved the standard of refereeing in Iran , but it certainly helped in creating controversy and outcry by the majority of coaches and fans ( usually by the defeated teams). It has reached such stage that coaches like Afshin Ghotbi , religiously refer to referees decision to justify their bad performance or defeats, hence hiding the real reasons for the failures of the team. It also put undue pressure on the referees leading to the temporary and unjustified retirement of one of the best referees in Iran after a penalty call not awarded to Perspolis.


The telephone polls , increasingly popular with the fans by the sheer number of voters which is regularly conducted by Navad leaves a lot of questions on its real motives and effect on the parties involved. The last one was a classical case of creating unnecessary controversy for Perspolis at a crucial stage of the league. “Who is responsible for the poor results of Perspolis?” Whoever this poll finds guilty , in this case the players were the main culprits according to the poll , will be negatively affected . Publicizing the culpability of players in such peculiar manner, will hardly solve the problem of the most popular in the country , while it needs all energy , concentration and focus to regain the title and fight for success in the upcoming ACL. Dariush Mostafavi was hyper critical of the poll , questioning its motive and its timing.

Ferdowsipour , undoubtedly a smart and educated person , has a disturbing habit of asking veiled questions that ridicule the interviewees or tries to undermine them. Regardless to the culture, people have dignity and one of the main principles of media and journalism in the world is respect for the people. Mockery and contempt are used by people who have exhausted reasoning, logic and fact gathering.

“Navad” and Ferdowsipour needs an attitude adjustment in order to be considered as a constructive tool for the development of football and raising important issues , rather than acting like a tabloid searching for controversial issues. It needs a touch of civility and courtesy and escalating its standards of production , unless the presenter or the producer are satisfied that such approach they are following , is sufficient to satisfy its clients mentality and preferences.

Majid jan,

It is a great post with many valid points and of course well written.

I am afraid to say that overall I disagree with your view. Navad is a "show". A show must have an agenda to cover. A successful show, backed by many polls in all over the world, must be controversial to attract the viewers. Otherwise, it becomes an educational program with couple of hundreds “professionals” watching it while sipping their coffee. A successful show can be easily be rated by the number of the viewers in North America. If the show fails its mission, people have the choice to click on the button called remote control.

One of the best examples for a successful, controversial show is "American idol" with its Simon Cowell guy who is rude but "right to the point and honest", that's why people trust/love him. However, at the end of day, it's his opinion. Another example, can be the CBS anchor, Katie Couric, who is hired (rumoured to be 100 millions dollars salary) to be “different” than the “boring” regular anchors

Navad is the best show Iran have offered after revolution and Ferdosipour is the best sport anchor, we have ever had. Do you think the show can be better? Sure, it can be, but the chance is more that the current show loses his edge. We must admit that Ferdosipour is Iran’s Simon Cowell. He is rude but expert. He gained the trust of ordinary people. He doesn’t do “apple shinning” (dastmal yazdi) which is very popular among Iranians. If the majority still watch this, it means he is still the man. he might not satisfy your taste as you are not "ordinary, average Joe", you demand more, but the society wants this kind of show.

Bring you another example, there is a big issue in hockey to ban "the fight", but they affraid to lose the audience who are only interested about the fight. How about that?

With all due respect.

Cheers,

[Hajagha]

I found this interesting:

.او آدمی*ست که هرگز، هرگز در فوتبال ایران دچار رانت*خواری نشده است. هرگز یک دلال نبوده است. عادل فردوسی*پور اگر محبوب است به خاطر این است که اگر انتقاد کرده، پشت انتقادش دلیل و مدرک مستدلی داشته است و عادل فردوسی*پور اگر محبوب است در ایران به خاطر صداقتش و اطلاعات کاملش است

I encourage you to think about the bold phrase a bit more.

[Hajagha]

[Hajagha]

I think criticizing Ferdosipour and Navad in this particular time, is encouraging the "Military/Mafia" bond, which put an umbrella on Football in the last four years.

Hold on in your critics, not now, not at this time.

[Dubxl152]

I think criticizing Ferdosipour and Navad in this particular time, is encouraging the "Military/Mafia" bond, which put an umbrella on Football in the last four years.
Hold on in your critics, not now, not at this time.

I agree with Hajagha.
Adel is a shock jock nothing more nothing less. He is a like live version of khabar varzeshi, they throw everyone under the bus to sell papers & 90 throws everyone under the bus to get viewers. In my opinion 90 could be perfectly successful without the hashiye and aggressive interviewing tactics, there is no other show like it in Iran, that should be enough to keep people watching.

But here's the other glaring issue. If they succeed in shutting down 90, it would only give the PEO & IFF more power. It strengthens their position, and gives them even more freedom to exert their agenda.

90 as a "analytical" football program that brings forth intelligent interviews leaves alot to be desired, But people love hashiye "DRAMA" and 90 does one hell of a job of pissing people off and creating Drama.

Maybe someday there will be a quality espn like program on Irib...... but if they kill 90 it limits the opportunity for other shows.

[zzgloo]

The most controlled enviroment in the islamic republic, is not " The sepah e pasdaran ", it is IRIB !!!!
So, Ferdosipor, is nothing but a popet !!!....he is exactly the way he is told to be !!!!

[maij]

Majid jan,

It is a great post with many valid points and of course well written.

Reza Jan.

I appreciate your kind words.

I am afraid to say that overall I disagree with your view.

There is no problem whatsoever in that.



There are many points that I like to bring across in this argument of yours but will go right to the point.

Iran is Iran and USA is USA. It is not the same society, not the same culture, language or religion. There is an ocean of difference between the two societies. What the white man in New York does, is not necessarily acceptable in the mahalleh in Shiraz or in Qom or Tabriz.

You simply cannot expect what the Americans do or behave like, and portray it as a model acceptable in other societies and cultures.

Yes...people love controversies, else TV shows, sleazy magazines and tabloids would not have survived or prospered. But , we are talking about a segment of people that are not necessarily a representative of the society.

Take "Jerry Springer" for example , that show where the presenter hosts all sort of twisted characters or people who have engaged in incest or something like that...where they end up fighting and in the process they strip off with boobz hanging and all !!! NOW...that is apparently a very popular program and that thrills the live audience (at least ) clapping and enjoying every minute of it....but seriously , is that what a normal civilized human being is all about ???? Or is it truly a representative of the American society.

I must admit , I personalloy don't mind following a contoversial issue here and there , but that there is a limit to that. I don't beleive that Adel or Navad was so controversial as much as he was the jack of all trades and master of none. His contoversey , as some whould have thought of it , was the side of him telling the league chairman how to arrange his league , managers and coaches how to coach their team , referees how to whistle , fans how to cheerand and hardly left a stone unturned and all that in the front of public.

In an anti-establishment such as Iran , that will definately be popular, but is it always right ?

Is it acceptable to ridicule people in the name of free speech ? Is it acceptable for him to challenge a coach or a chairman while he never for a day in his life , reached such a position ? Where does his imaginary expertise in every aspect comes from. He is an English teacher in the University and a young one for that matter>
To be honest , I would not know where to start about having an acceptable standard of TV program presentation, but I know that Adel "yek mighdar shoorish dar avard!"


I agree that Navad is the best show, and in fact apart from live sport matches , this is the only show I watch in IRIB. BUT.... it has many faults and excuse me for repeating the same statement. If Adel takes the liberty in slashing everything and everyone, then he has to be a few steps above them.Well, he isn't. He is far from perfect; he has many flaws that many people don't like.
Popularity is a two edge sword. Saddam Hussain is still popular even after his death, with the large majority of Arabs and perhaps other nationalities, delirious of his achievements (!!!). Do you really think this popularity is justified or does it make the man an angel despite his atrocities and genocides?

Bring you another example, there is a big issue in hockey to ban "the fight", but they affraid to lose the audience who are only interested about the fight. How about that? [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Majeed/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]

With all due respect.

Cheers,

Mokhlis Agha Reza.