The Daei conspiracy, getting to the facts [Part 3] - MEHDI MAHDAVIKIA

[Martin-Reza]

Ok, so now that issue isnt' looking for a proof, can you just list what kind of issues needs to be discussed?
Quality of play of Kia? then it will be the problem of how to compare level that Kia plays in Bundesliga vs. IPL.
Another issue will be in what position. RB, RM in a 4-4-2, Outside mid in a 3-5-2? In all of these cases Kia needs to be compared against different players Kaabi, Gholamnezhad, Rezai, Ando. Since we dont' know what the line up will be and what formation, it becomes too many possibilities.
I really would like to undrestand what did you expect?

I posed exact question, you for example failed to answer them. You would have seen the outcome if you had contributed.

Doesn't matter anyway.

I thank all those who contributed. I thought a structured approach could shed more light on the different views. There was not enough interest nor will to stick to the structure.

[Doctor DOOM]

Not angry at all.

I'm just stating a fact. in F+ if one asks for members' views on a controversial issue, one wouldnt get many replies.
that's a fact.
I also said if more views are qanted, general forum can provide that. but there's no saying what the quality would be.
thaqt's also a fact.

I think within martin's structure, quite a few ppl did reply and address the issues.
agha majid, me, kazem, gol-kuchik, bahram and purple-haze ( the last two by endorsing other posts )

plus, other members' diffrent views and tid-bits were offered that if not following the structure, they still addressed some of the criteria.
plus, in post 11, a break-down of characteristics needed for the post was done and additional comparisons were drawn.

I think summing up all the above would give martin enough material to work with.

[maij]

so, our freind, rage, may perhaps offer his explanation what was haphazzard about those ?
or maybe majid jan also can chip in , in rage's explanation of "haphazard".
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Structured method of questioning that Martin has put was for to precisely and specifically answer those question , and not divert into other issues.

Such method is widely used in corporate to specifically address an issue or a shortcoming. If you are asked what is the color of your Hair , you say black or gray and not indulge in what you think it should be and how nice your color was when you were a kid.

as for the "only 5 ppl" offered ... well what did you expect?
it's F+ and you just wont get much more than such numbers to back a volatile issue like this.

even a non-volatile and "safe" issue like : "do you like TM" , you'll get a maximum of 15-17 members chipping in. so what's the point here?
5 ppl offered and I think there IS enough material to work with off these 5 ppl.

you want more, put the same question to the general forum.
but dont ask for quality and standards there.

Agha Payman Jan.... You seem to be a bit angry... well , at least from the tone ..... Chill , man ///

[Ali Chicago]

...

This is an issue that can't be solved by "proof" and this never was the aim.

Ok, so now that issue isnt' looking for a proof, can you just list what kind of issues needs to be discussed?

Quality of play of Kia? then it will be the problem of how to compare level that Kia plays in Bundesliga vs. IPL.

Another issue will be in what position. RB, RM in a 4-4-2, Outside mid in a 3-5-2? In all of these cases Kia needs to be compared against different players Kaabi, Gholamnezhad, Rezai, Ando. Since we dont' know what the line up will be and what formation, it becomes too many possibilities.

I really would like to undrestand what did you expect?

[zzgloo]

Our own " Mansour " on the Cable TV program, while being with Mr.Molcala.... said, ....."Ali Daei...has done some good things and some questionable things."...
he believed, Daei had these concerens

One: " To make TM with personel , he personaly feels comfortable with.( As some players did not fit in his frame of mind, and Daei did not feel comfortble working with ) "

Two - "Ali Daei, wants to show his dislike of persian Gulf leagues,as ,according to him,it devalues iranian football. ( So he tried not to get players from those leagues )"

etc.....

While, Ali Daei is, some what practical, and invited Hashemian and Madanchi at the last moments....but, he realy wished he did not have to.....as it was the case, with Mahdavikia...whom, there were enough players at that position to make Daei feel reasonably comfortable, not to invite him.

Another logical Question to the Coaching staff is :
Is TM strong enough,to afford such extravagant ,non-football related,wishes of Ali Daei ?
So far,the answer has been : " YES " !?

[Doctor DOOM]

no allegations , my friend.
just amazement !
if you read rage's post you'll see why.
I'm just stating a fact here. you asked for opinions. opinions were offered.
but to call it haphazzard just becoz they were not "how" or "what" some members expected or wanted does not mean they were haphazzard.

in fact I'd say they were broken down into different parts quite well, by you. and each section was addressed well by many posters.

so, our freind, rage, may perhaps offer his explanation what was haphazzard about those ?
or maybe majid jan also can chip in , in rage's explanation of "haphazard".
---------------------

as for the "only 5 ppl" offered ... well what did you expect?
it's F+ and you just wont get much more than such numbers to back a volatile issue like this.

even a non-volatile and "safe" issue like : "do you like TM" , you'll get a maximum of 15-17 members chipping in. so what's the point here?
5 ppl offered and I think there IS enough material to work with off these 5 ppl.


you want more, put the same question to the general forum.
but dont ask for quality and standards there.

[Martin-Reza]

I don't know why you come up with allegations against me now, such as me being disappointed because I wouldn't like the presented views.

I tried to set up a structured disucssion, I think apart from the first 2 pages the structure was merely ignored. We are now stuck in the usual hick-hack leading nowhere. We have plenty threads for that already.

The second problem is that only 5 people gave a detailed answer to the posed questions. This is not really what I was hoping for.

This is an issue that can't be solved by "proof" and this never was the aim.

[Doctor DOOM]

and to add to Ali's post, I must say Martin has a lot to work with, in this thread.

I dont know what you guys mean by saying you didnt get enough info or opinion or material to work with. I actually see a lot to work with.

but as is with any other thread that doesnt get closed, if you keep a thread open long enough, you run the risk of seeing the issue getting spread and other matters creep in. that's but natural. so to actually feign surprise is a bit amusing here. show me one thread that has maintained its original purpose and strict structre after page 3 or 4.


martin wanted the opinion of various members on the issue of exclusion of Kia from team. and quite a few were offered.
we apologize if the answers werent what some of you "liked". but to call it haphazzard ? that's rich !
why?
becoz whether you like the ansers or not, there WERE answers offered and debated.

in many other issues, when some ppl are asked, all they offer is series of diversions, dodging and baseless claims that if asked for backing up, are left up in the air. I'm sure you want examples. for example, "kia's supposed poor crossing ability" or "mobaali's supposed bad attitude" or .... to name a few.
uh uh, brother. many of you DONT get to point fingers at others.

so I'd say martin does have something to work with now.

[Ali Chicago]

Great thread, thanks MR. Instead of some haphazard analysis, the structure with which you provided the discussion is helpful.

Yes, actually the structure is merely ignored, as is the whole post by most apart from a handful.

After having some structure in the beginning, it was totally lost and is now one of many in which there is talk about this and that without any structure. I think it's time to abandon this project. The outcome is rather poor, at least we could identify the three "victims".

Can you guys explain what do you mean your above comments? Of course thread will go to this and this and that, since none of us has like a note that indicates Daie told to someone or wrote somewhere, he does't invite X or Y cause he hate their guts. Or on the other hand Daie supporters showed a methodical analysis by the TM coaching staff or at least some logical explanations in the paper why Kia wasn't invited.

When there is no hard core proof, issues will be diverted.

Daie critics don't have proof and neither you have a proof. Like any other thing we see a set of events and then interpret the events based on our own mental bias. Both camps do the same. So i am really confused with the so called structure. Since Martin opened the first thread, it was always about Karimi, Kia and to a lesser degree about Mobali, to be honest we didnt' need three threads to narrow down the list. As I said over and over, this threads won't bear any fruits (since no proof can be obtained).

If I am missing any point please explain.

[Martin-Reza]

Yes, actually the structure is merely ignored, as is the whole post by most apart from a handful.

After having some structure in the beginning, it was totally lost and is now one of many in which there is talk about this and that without any structure. I think it's time to abandon this project. The outcome is rather poor, at least we could identify the three "victims".

[maij]

Great thread, thanks MR. Instead of some haphazard analysis, the structure with which you provided the discussion is helpful.

Regrettably , that is what is happening quite a lot.

[RaginG Inferno]

Great thread, thanks MR. Instead of some haphazard analysis, the structure with which you provided the discussion is helpful.

[Ali Chicago]

come on , matey.
none of you could have been sure of such a turn-around.
Ali daei , the player, was one of the most patriotic players we've ever had. who jeopardized his lucrative career in germany just to serve Iranian nat'l team.
he could have done what VH does usually; pick and choose when to come and when not to come, depending on his free time w the club.
he also always said the TEAM comes before the individual.
( it is this one sentence that I feel betrayed !!! )
he was always ready to serve the team.
so it was hard to imagine such a man would bring his personal matters into the equation.

Payman Jaan;

First of all my comment was a joke, Hence the smilies and all that, so don't read too much into it Paymaan jaan.

About the bolded part of your post, let say I have reservations, when it came for him to play in the TM and acheiving the so called recored of most goal scorer in the world, he did anything he could to play in the TM (which I dont' blame him) but it doesn't quite agree with the above statement of yours.

Secondly, being patriotic is one thing and being boneheaded another thing. One can be a patriotic bonehead. Based on the behavior of Daie (playing in the TM when everything showed his performance was declining and many others) it wasn't hard to see the claim about past is past is hard to be taken seriously from him. Of course everything is possible but let say have different level of possibilities (in this case not much I would say).

You yourself for example seem to have an aptitutude for critical thinking (which is considered a positive attribue in my book and in the west in general btw), so based on the this info, I can with some level of accuracy, predict your attitude toward certain events in the future. Based on the past behavior of other members in the F+ one can do the same.

Again, I dont' question Daie's patriotisem or anything ( depsite all my criticisem toward him, I always admired his devoution to the TM during WC2002 qualification), but I didn't have any doubt (ok very little doubt) we will get to this place (Daie's issues with the old timers and WC2006 drama) sooner or later in the TM. Why we look in the past, sooner or later TM will have one or two bad games (that doesn't mean I wish for it or looking forward to it btw, but it is a reality, every football team will have good, great or bad days) and you will see the all this bottled up anger against Mr. Daie will come to the surface.

[Doctor DOOM]

Welcome to good side and the Enlightened camps!!! Do I hear an Amen!!!!

come on , matey.
none of you could have been sure of such a turn-around.

Ali daei , the player, was one of the most patriotic players we've ever had. who jeopardized his lucrative career in germany just to serve Iranian nat'l team.
he could have done what VH does usually; pick and choose when to come and when not to come, depending on his free time w the club.

he also always said the TEAM comes before the individual.
( it is this one sentence that I feel betrayed !!! )
he was always ready to serve the team.

so it was hard to imagine such a man would bring his personal matters into the equation.

[Ali Chicago]

^....
now? I feel I was talking about a very different person.
.... !

Welcome to good side and the Enlightened camps!!! Do I hear an Amen!!!!