"personal feelings" still rule at TM !!!

[Doctor DOOM]

doctor peyman,
let me put it in 1 line, and i say this with total respect and no offense or "niyate bad":
u overdo and many times exagerrate ur "criticisms".

no offense taken, AT ALL.

but what do you mean "overdo" ?
I can "UNDERdo" by saying something like :
ZAREH = ZERO

would that be enough for you guys?
with no rhyme or reason or explanation behind it?


or I can say :
DAEI = VINDICTIVE
would this be enough.


ok.
let me UNDERdo from now on:

1- ZAREH = ZERO @ LB
2- SADEGHI & TM ?
3- DAEI = VINDICTIVE , UNBECOMING FOR A LEGEND
4- TM IN DANGER
5- KIA >>>>>>>>>>>> SADEGHI
6- TM BENCH - "PASHEH"-WEIGHT ---> MORE DANGER


--------------------

but if by "overdo" you mean I spice things up a bit extra , then I must tell you NO. That's how I see it.
If I say sadeghi is nowhere near Kia's talent and usefulness for TM, even at present forms of both, I truly mean each and every word.
no exaggeration. no added spice. no extra butter.

[yashar_fasihnia]

doctor peyman,
let me put it in 1 line, and i say this with total respect and no offense or "niyate bad":

u overdo and many times exagerrate ur "criticisms".

[Ali Chicago]

Very valid points, But Ali Jan...like you mentioned when you were a coach and post event review of you actions , made you cringe ( perhaps sometimes being even more self critical than ought to be) , I tend to think that Daei is the same. After all , we all suffer from this syndrome.

Personally , I experienced this during the time I was a trainer , be it in the flight Simulator or the real aircraft. After the event , sometime I was angry with myself because the training session that I conducted or words that I uttered could have been done better.

Daei is a hot tempered guy and has short fuse so to speak. Even during his days as a player , he displayed low tolernace for bad performances by his teammates and little tolerance for people in the media , who in his mind were looking for Hashiye and igniting difference by aiming at side issues.

I was with him once when an Arabic reporter asked him such a silly irritationg question, that I thought Daei will surely punch him. But since we were in a cool relaxed hotel lobby , Daei just smiled and excused himslef from answering further questions, without any sign of hostility towrds the reporter.


So, there is two side to the man......

Glad to see we are getting to more well defined specific areas. You are totally right, there are questions that makes you mad. Some of them totally irrelavant, directly hostile, even as you said earlier "orchestrated and moozi". But that is what sepreats boys from men as the American quote goes.

A good coach in order to be able to make quick logical (as much as humanly possible that is under pressure) decision, needs to be able to control his emotions IMO. Daie seems to need to work on this area quite a bit.

As for your last comment about how he was able to control himself in that incident, I am so glad to hear that. So he definitly has potential. He just needs to elevate his tolerance (even at Bull Shit) at times.

The expectation I have from Daie as an universtity educated man and international player is far higher than the one I have from someone like Akbar Meesagheeyan or even Gholamhossein Payroovani or Parviz mazloomi. To me higher education doesn't just bring the title of Dr. Engineer, Lawyer, it brings much more responsiblity, expectation as well. So, while overall I think I have (overall remaind) supportive of Mr. Daie, I demand and expect higher standards from Mr. Daie. It isn't because I have an agenda against him, it is preceisely because I think he has far more potentials (to really impact Iranian football in ways no one can due to his international stature), than he might have realized.

[Doctor DOOM]

I see there are some who actually think zareh and sadeghi have been doing well and dont deserve to be picked on. well, that is just a matter of opinion.

but what strengthens my argument is that the majority of ppl are saying that too. therefore it cant be that I have an agenda and unfairly targeting 2 good performers.
yes, it is anyone prerogative to deny that or claim the contrary. much as I can claim Maldives is stronger than brazil. but when you find a large majority of ppl saying brazil is stronger, then it makes it hard to sell that idea to ppl.




secondly, I'm afraid yashar is just sidestepping the issue here. what shd it matter if sadeghi performs like ronaldinho at saipa ( which he certainly doesnt ) if at TM he is proving to be the weakest ( or among the weakest 2 ) player GAME AFTER GAME AFTER GAME ?

remember enayati who used to rip into oppositions at IPL? what did he do at TM? so we do know what shd matter is TM performance and sadeghi has been given plenty of opportunities ( some say, way too much to be warranted ) and in almost 95% of those games, he has been ineffectual or the weak link.
and you want me or anyone else NOT to pick on the issue after every weak performance? what shd one talk about then? how X's new hairstyle fits him? how Y's socks were pulled up?


Much like other times when some say "in training X must have done better than Y, hence we see X in the game". ok. X may play like messi for all I care. But if he plays weak in the game, then the coach must take note. if he does it again in the next game, the coach shd be worried and has to pay extra attention to the matter. if he plays the same in the next games, then the coach shd bench the fellow.
coz buddy, somewhere between training ground and the football pitch, the guy is losing it and nobody gives points to what the team does in training ground. at least not in this reality.


yes. sadeghi and zareh have been the topic , SIMPLY BECOZ THEY HAVE BEEN UNDER-PERFORMING CONSISTENTLY . yes, in a game here or a game there we do see hosseini, aghili, hajsafi, ... play below par. but ( now pay attention ) THAT IS NOT CONSISTENT. so it'd be unfair to pick on one or two games and say the player is weak. but when it is CONSISTENT , then we have diff ball game here.
for club level football, I couldnt care less what they do. but when a player is picked for my national team, he better be the best we have and he better perform like there's no better. these 2 dont. you can deny it. cool with me. but at the same breath, you cant deny my objections of how such inferior players play and start game after game in my national team.

unless you expect the peculiar scenario of these two CONTINUING their abysmal performances and us coming and praising them every other game, to make it more pleasant for you to read.
you cant expect that.
you put your hand in the trap, it will clamps down on it EVERY TIME.
you cant say I'd like to put my hand there and the clamp shd NOT come down!
bad performance will beget bad review. each and every time.

now, it becomes ridiculous and absurd if there are SERIES of such bad or sub-par performances and nobody does anything about it.

[maij]

Hate to make this too long, but the reason it is crucial for the coach to be able to control himself in front of the media and against the criticisms isn't just for moralistic reason (which in its own are important). The more important reason, is that a coach during the game needs to be able to maintain calmness, resist getting too emotional in order to observe his team and opponent in a calm, cool logical manner and be able to make real-time decisions. When a coach is too emotional during the game, he has shot himself in the foot since he has taken that objectiveness to a large degree away from himself. I know it is easy to say and hard to do. I myself in my early days of coaching (at a very low level) did some stuff that today make my own body cringe when I think about it. So that is the reason that a coach has to progress step by steps. Be able to make his mistakes in a smaller arena and his mistakes (getting too emotional)> You may ask what are not real-time decisions? They are with subs, subs against subs of the other team, or changing the team tactic during the game when he sees the current game plan doesnt' work out, observing the body language of his own and opponent players,....etc. etc. Please watch Iran Ireland game return leg, around 70th minute there is a shot of Blazvitch on Iran's bench, look at his face. It was quite clear, how much he wasn't in control of himself. Again, I know how difficult it is and not trying to trivialize the fact of how hard it is. But that twenty minutes to the end of the game of Iran Ireland in Tehran was life of death of the future of Blaz coaching in Iran. At that crucial 20 minutes, he wasn't in charge of himself in a logical manner. Compare that to Wenger, or Fergusen or most Pro coaches when their team get hammered (Ricard in Barca last year). My expectation from Daie is to look at those guys and emulate them rather than typical vatani coach.

Again if he isn't able to conduct himself under the pressure (during the game or limelight of TV cameras), Daie will do a dis service to himself (from purely personal point of view to himself), forget about its implication of that on the TM.

Very valid points, But Ali Jan...like you mentioned when you were a coach and post event review of you actions , made you cringe ( perhaps sometimes being even more self critical than ought to be) , I tend to think that Daei is the same. After all , we all suffer from this syndrome.

Personally , I experienced this during the time I was a trainer , be it in the flight Simulator or the real aircraft. After the event , sometime I was angry with myself because the training session that I conducted or words that I uttered could have been done better.

Daei is a hot tempered guy and has short fuse so to speak. Even during his days as a player , he displayed low tolernace for bad performances by his teammates and little tolerance for people in the media , who in his mind were looking for Hashiye and igniting difference by aiming at side issues.

I was with him once when an Arabic reporter asked him such a silly irritationg question, that I thought Daei will surely punch him. But since we were in a cool relaxed hotel lobby , Daei just smiled and excused himslef from answering further questions, without any sign of hostility towrds the reporter.


So, there is two side to the man......

[Ali Chicago]

[FONT=Georgia]Khaily manoon Ali Jan and I truly admire you for fighting against the invaders and protecting the motherland.

Thanks for the kind words. I think all I did is the duty of every Iranian and what I did doesn't elevate me to anything special. I just wanted to clarify, I wasn't among the ones who fled the country as soon as thing got tough.

[FONT=Georgia]
We all know that Daei has his limitations, some of his acts does not appeal to everyone's "Salighe" , statements or outbursts that seems inappropriate , focusing on side issues , and whatever shortcomings one can think of.

From my point, I like to look at the bigger picture. I don't think that the coach should be accountable to the press, media and the fans. He is accountable to the football federation ONLY. You said it somewhere else; coaches are sacked on regular basis and even the best of them. If he does not achieve his goal, then he will be sacked. Then why not leave it to the natural process?

Many fans and journalist think that it is their God given right to question the National Coach on players selection or tactics on the pretext of their love for the country or for the interest of the national team. Some of the journalists get so obsessed by their own views and abilities that it is no more than a silly joke. I have experienced this practically and in person. One or two even told me that they can do much better than Ghalenoei if they were the coach !!!!!

HUH....one of those who claimed that , has a grand experience of playing for "Rah Ahan" youth team and a was graduate of university majoring in literature , and yet he can do a better job that Ghalenoei!!!

What would you say to this type of person and his claims? But most importantly what kind of logic can you expect from him in his newspaper column or TV show?

I totally agree with everything you said. In US they call that phenomenon, Monday Morning Quarter Backing (QB is football americayee is the guy who throws the ball to the receivers or do other things with the ball). Games are played on Sunday. So Monday morning everyone can get a change to criticize the QB or the head coach.

My point is, everywhere in the world this exists. A mix of passion, emotions, even I say ignorance and maybe a small dose of good/constructive criticism is all mixed up toward marki players and coach's. It is all mixed up. A smart coach/player can keep his cool (it is part of the job dealing with all this). A professional isn't just about getting paid money for his services. It is about how he conducts himself.

Hate to make this too long, but the reason it is crucial for the coach to be able to control himself in front of the media and against the criticisms isn't just for moralistic reason (which in its own are important). The more important reason, is that a coach during the game needs to be able to maintain calmness, resist getting too emotional in order to observe his team and opponent in a calm, cool logical manner and be able to make real-time decisions. When a coach is too emotional during the game, he has shot himself in the foot since he has taken that objectiveness to a large degree away from himself. I know it is easy to say and hard to do. I myself in my early days of coaching (at a very low level) did some stuff that today make my own body cringe when I think about it. So that is the reason that a coach has to progress step by steps. Be able to make his mistakes in a smaller arena and his mistakes (getting too emotional)> You may ask what are not real-time decisions? They are with subs, subs against subs of the other team, or changing the team tactic during the game when he sees the current game plan doesnt' work out, observing the body language of his own and opponent players,....etc. etc. Please watch Iran Ireland game return leg, around 70th minute there is a shot of Blazvitch on Iran's bench, look at his face. It was quite clear, how much he wasn't in control of himself. Again, I know how difficult it is and not trying to trivialize the fact of how hard it is. But that twenty minutes to the end of the game of Iran Ireland in Tehran was life of death of the future of Blaz coaching in Iran. At that crucial 20 minutes, he wasn't in charge of himself in a logical manner. Compare that to Wenger, or Fergusen or most Pro coaches when their team get hammered (Ricard in Barca last year). My expectation from Daie is to look at those guys and emulate them rather than typical vatani coach.

Again if he isn't able to conduct himself under the pressure (during the game or limelight of TV cameras), Daie will do a dis service to himself (from purely personal point of view to himself), forget about its implication of that on the TM.

[yashar_fasihnia]

If you read my initial post, I didn't mean that you have 10 posts in favor of Mr. Daie. I guess I didnt' write it well. What I meant to write, was you or Agha Majid or whoever that wants to fully support Daie can come here and post in favor of him (which as you mentioned you haven't). I didn't mean to imply that you have done. So I just wanted to clarify. I was trying to say, that instead of attacking posts that are criticial of Daie, why you guys don't start pro Daie posts and take a more active role that way. See my example of different magazines in the US.
At the end of the day, usually those people who criticize usually are more vocal. Today, in the US the richest and strongest country, if you read the papers, it is full of criticizem and gloom and doom, I think it is how it is.

thankyou for your clarification.

[yashar_fasihnia]

OK I like to get an attempt. We are talking about picking Torres with 30 something goal in EPL vs. Raul. How many goals Raul scored in La Liga? Guiza was the top scorer in La Liga if I am not mistaken right. Plus before Guiza get injured, Torres was subbed in every game. Actually he did get subbed even in the final. As a side note compare that to players in our team that regardless of their performance (Zandi/Sadeghi/Ando) start each game (back to the topic).
So it wasn't like choosing a player who isn't starting in EPL vs. a player who is playing at a lower level league. EPL is best league in the world, and Liverpool is one of the best teams in the world. So the selection was between the best and much better in this case.

i already replied to this part to doctor doom.

Plus it was for only 2-3 players. Not a whole bunch. People aren't just brainless. Other coaches and football criticis all praised Torres as a valuable and goal getter. So while it is true that coach has the final decision and it is his choice, it isn't like Aragunes can go and pick an average player instead of both Torres or Raul and says, oh well that is my opinion.

thats because spain has the luxury of picking from so many superstars that the coach wont have to hesitate to leave a few superstars and find replacements for them!

but iran doesnt have this luxury. we have 1 or 2 superstars like nekounam, that too, not superstars by international levels but asian level and the rest of the team is just made of IPL best players which itself is a below average league by world standards!
wat do u expect???

we can leave out sadeghi, but who do u wanna call instead? kazemi? zare? rahmati?? how much difference will it make really??
the same amir ghalenoi preferred ebrahim sadeghi over his own player hossein kazemi. in the dubai tournament, he praised ebrahim sadeghi as a role model for other IPL players because he is a player who is intelligent, has good football skills and has a professional personality.

let me put it this way, if sadeghi is one of the good players IPL can produce, then this is the pool of players TM can select from. so the remaining TM players from IPL will be more or less on the same level.

Plus when Aragones picked Torress, people, fans did criticize him. It doesn't mean people need to be bombarded with lables as negative and this and that, if they criticize aragones for not picking Raul?

please tell me where did i bombard members here with being negative and other labels??
i just made a 50 word post and u reached to all these conclusions and read all these things u have been mentioning in ur 2 posts in my 1 post???

Can you say for sure, had the Aragones picked Raul, Spain wouldnt' have won Euro 2008?

exactly my point. no i cant, and neither can u nor peyman nor anyone else.
so to make a claim like, TM ISNT AT 100% MAXIMUM POTENTIAL doesnt hold water.
thats the only reason i made that post.

i didnt ask him, u or anyone else to keep quiet, to dont criticize, to support daei blindly or to do watever ur saying im doing.....

so again, i request u to dont over react and dont accuse me of victimizing u or peyman or anyone else who says anything negative about daei, sadeghi, zare or whoever.

many members are saying negative things about them on both football forum and football+ forum. where did u see me shutting them down, asking them to blindly and support daei or do any of those things u said im doing?

Coaches are given the right to choose players and no one can get the right away from them. Please dont' try to take the right to judge, discuss, or even criticize player selection with a lable "coach knows better".

again this "taking away the right" excuse??
ok, now this is getting really annoying. u need to stop these accusations and stop putting on this innocent tone.

for the last time, noone stopped, blocked, censored, urs, peymans or any other members posts regarding player selections.
but its my very right to object to ur, peymans or anyone elses posts and say, the coach is in a MUCHHHHHHHH BETTER POSITION to choose the players and whether u like it or not, its the truth and u know it.

i myself dont like the fact that so many saipa players are there in TM and i dont think some of them deserve to be in TM but I DONT GO PUTTING DOWN DAEI, ZARE, SADEGHI LEFT AND RIGHT IN EVERY POST!
harchizi hadi dare. az had ke begzare, mishe ziyade ravi and that is not good. it looks like an agenda and it becomes irritating.

im sure u urself find certain members very irritating(whom i dont wanna name) with constant negative posts about esteghlal and perspolis. this is exactly the same situation, noone is stopping anyone from posting their opinion, but seriously, people should stop overdoing it!



again, the rest of ur post is irrelevant to me and i dont find any necessity to answer it.

[Ali Chicago]

i


sorry ali agha, bur ur TOTALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYY WRONG on this one.
in the past few months, u can search PFDC posts and i can safely say about 75% of all of peymans posts and atleast 90% of his TM posts are blaming sadeghi and zare and basically saying everything negative that is about zare, sadeghi and ultimately daei with his selection of these 2 players.

.

If you read my initial post, I didn't mean that you have 10 posts in favor of Mr. Daie. I guess I didnt' write it well. What I meant to write, was you or Agha Majid or whoever that wants to fully support Daie can come here and post in favor of him (which as you mentioned you haven't). I didn't mean to imply that you have done. So I just wanted to clarify. I was trying to say, that instead of attacking posts that are criticial of Daie, why you guys don't start pro Daie posts and take a more active role that way. See my example of different magazines in the US.

At the end of the day, usually those people who criticize usually are more vocal. Today, in the US the richest and strongest country, if you read the papers, it is full of criticizem and gloom and doom, I think it is how it is.

[yashar_fasihnia]

I am glad you posted this. I like to stipulate on this. Football is subjective and so is player selection but Performance evaluation isn't. At the end of the game or tournament there is a final score and people in general ( a big majority) judge the team's performance (played well but lost by an accident for example).

i used to think the same until i came across members over here who said TM is winning games but not playing "attractive football" or "good football".
there were even members who said they did rather see TM play attractive football and lose rather than palying boring football and win.

im not saying wat is right and wat is wrong, but clearly, even performance evaluation is subjective!

Everyone here accepts that it final decision of Mr. Daie that matters. I can type till I get blue and it wont' matter. What I don't understand why is there an insistence of forcing people to dont' evaluate, criticize, support, or whatever head coache's decision. Why are we so sensetive if Payman doesn't like Zare or Sadeghi and trying to force him to join the rest of the choros?
You, Majid or wheover else come and post 10 posts about how great/Average or whatever Daie's work in the TM has been, that is fair. But coming and saying Payman, Ali, this or that is negative is unfair.

sorry ali agha, bur ur TOTALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYY WRONG on this one.
in the past few months, u can search PFDC posts and i can safely say about 75% of all of peymans posts and atleast 90% of his TM posts are blaming sadeghi and zare and basically saying everything negative that is about zare, sadeghi and ultimately daei with his selection of these 2 players.

this is the first time i am replying to his post after a long time simply because i dont have the hosele for such long discussions.
at the same time, i dont like many things daei does but u dont see me putting him down and 2 3 players continuosuly in every post of mine.
i admire some things daei does at the same, but u dont see me coming and posting those stuff continuously in every post either.
when u overdo it, it resembles an "Agenda" and frankly, irritates many members.
harchizi hadi dare ali agha, che tu shargh, che tu gharb.

noone here forced u or peyman or anyone else to not "criticize" zare or sadeghi (if u can call it that ), so please dont over react and immediately put this innocent tone one. im sure u remember ur previous experience with mansoor....

wat is unfair ali agha is that as soon as someone disagrees with peyman or u or someone else who shares a viewpoint similar to urs, u think u guys are being victims and supressed and forced not to say ur opinion. peyman, u and some others have been putting down a few players and daei for a long time now and noone stopped u. i just made 1 post, and u come up with this reply??? now that is unfair and uncalled for...


as for the rest of ur post, its not relevant to me. so i will let someone else who it is relevant to answer it.

[yashar_fasihnia]

still no biscuit.
wasnt guiza la liga's TOP SCORER ?

you see.
you are trying to match up super-stars and top performers with sadeghi, who at best, had a very average season at IPL. ( meaning raul was side-lined for the TOP SCORER of arguably the best league in the world. not by some mediocre, average player from la liga )
sorry buddy. you dont get to match them up, unfortunately.


try once more.

let me help you along.

if you prove to me that raul was struck off in favor of say ossasuna's ( or any other average-to-low team's average player ) striker , then I'd accept your argument.
was he ?

that happened because raul and guiza are strikers and so, its much easier to compare 2 forwards by their number of goals scored. the comparison is easier because its quantifiable to an extent.

but sadeghi is a midfielder and comparing midfielders or defenders isnt so easily quantifiable.

-----------

u still dont get the point.

1)its just UR PERSONAL OPINION that sadeghi had at best an average season in IPL!! im 100% sure u havent followed saipa except for a few games broadcasted on TV like the rest of us. just like the rest of us "FANS" who neither have analysers nor scouts to send to different cities and games to watch the players.

if saipa ended 11th, that doesnt mean sadeghi had an average season!
mes kerman ended 10th last season but mehdy rahmati had an excellent season!

2)again, the determination of the maximum potential of a team is something subjective.
just like noone till today can say whether the spanish national team which won the euro cup without raul is THE STRONGEST or a spain WITH RAUL but no guarantee of euro championship!

so u cant say TM isnt at its maximum potential just because sadeghi is part of the squad! if sadeghi is making it to TM under different coaches (ghalenoi himself preferred sadeghi over his own player kazemi), then u have to realize that this is wat IPL can offer to TM! spain can afford the luxury of having lots of superstars because LA LIGA can offer her superstars.
but TM doesnt have that luxury because IPL can only offer players at the level of sadeghi, some a bit better, some a bit worse!

[maij]

[Ali Chicago]

Ali jaan, .. charactor assasination is bad.....even,when it is done, with good intentions.
We,talk about issuess......they talk about us !
we talk about situation...they talk about seperation !
we talk about, " WE "....they talk about , " US,& them "!
We advocate expressing opinions......they want to shot up opinions !
Ali Jaan....as far as I am concerned,....it is you,who is " Closer to the truth " !!!!

Thanks for your kind words Bahram Jaan. I hope I deserve your good will and trust. IMHO opinion there isn't a WE and THEY, we all are Iranians and are on this never ending journey or making ourselves better and learn from each other. It is a never ending quest for finding the truth or getting closer to it. I would love to see, I have people like you Majid, and rest are my companions.

Recently when I read Hafez, I start to get him. I read him when I was younger but it seemed I never got him. Tonigth I read this before checking PFDC.

Be rah badeyeh raftan beh az neshastan be vadi batel
Ke ghar morad nayabam be ghadr jahd bekoosham.

Found it very appropriate.

[Ali Chicago]

Majid jaan,

If TM under Daie plays decent even and make it to the WC and plays decent (I dont' expect even make it to the next stage just play decent like WC98) team, I will be the first one who congradulate him on his success, even if the result is destruction of Ali Karimi or Kia.

As far as your comment about Iranian defended against Iraq, I dont' want to show off, but overall around 3 years I fought. I still have Iraqi shrapnel in my left elbow and another time got shell shocked. Been in Mehran, Sosangard, Koush, Jofair, even Majnoon Island, Abadan and even Peeranshahr and many other parts of Iran. So I am not one of those who fled Iran. As soon as we drove Iraqi's back out of Khoramshahr, I also didn't agree with Iran exporting its Islamic revolution and officially declared my disagreement during the Ramadan offensive operations and got into trouble with it. I dont' share this to brag or anything, I just wanted you to know to me principals are very improtant and so far paid dearly for it (with a 23 years self imposed exile).

I hope you realize that what I think, is nothing compared to the national interest of Iran. If there are concerns, in my own way, I see worrying sings and try to express my concerns.

Please go to the main forum and see the thread about Daie's interview in Navad. The man is paranoid, period. Then you say how anyone knows if he didn't invite X or Y out of grudge?

A simple question by Ferdoosipoor about league interuption with a simple answer that it is the Federation and League management decision, and see how Daie reacts. I can't beleive an university educated man who played pro football in Europe can get so emotional on National TV.

Once again, Good luck to TM and its head coach, Mr Daie. From the bottom of my heart despite all the reservations I have I wish for his success which will be the success of TM. If that means I have to eat my words so be it. What am I when it comes to Iran. It will worth it, if I see my zajrdeedeh people can celebrat promotion to the WC2010 and once again dance in the streets of Tehran and other Iranian cities.

[zzgloo]

I respectfully beg, whoever thinks Daie is doign great, average whatever, come and post yourslef. Open a thread. Dont' just wait, someone post soemthing and you come and say, "your post is negative and my pathriothic duty (see Siavashes post in the main forum) to so called "challenge" your post. I as a consumer have the right to choose which one I want to read. . Let the differing or even opposing view points expressed without one side attacking or labeling the other side, this and that, use sarcasem and let the PFDC members and events in our football shows which view was closer (notice I said closer) to the truth..

Ali jaan, .. charactor assasination is bad.....even,when it is done, with good intentions.
We,talk about issuess......they talk about us !
we talk about situation...they talk about seperation !
we talk about, " WE "....they talk about , " US,& them "!
We advocate expressing opinions......they want to shot up opinions !

Ali Jaan....as far as I am concerned,....it is you,who is " Closer to the truth " !!!!