The plight of Ali Karimi

[maij]

Agha Peyman jan....First of all , Sorry if you got offended, perhaps I should have used another term ... my bad.

As for Karimi , now I hope you realized what I was talking about and my concerns about him. Relegated to the bottom club of the Qatari league. The only reason he joined that club is that no one else wanted him but his contract , which is owned by Qatar FA , had a couple of years to run so the FA did not want to pay him severance , hence they transferred him to Al Saliya which has a grand total of 30 fans !!!!

So , now Qatar FC don't know Sh** about football , neither do I and that goes to Al Ahli of Jeddeh and a whole lot of other people who think Karimi is in a downward spiral.

I dont think takes a genius to figure out Karimi's case. The man with inherent ability , but screwed up top. This is the shameful outcome.

[BehzadB]

I think his contract may be a big reason why he can't get a deal at better clubs. No one wants to pay the type of money they have to.

Based on a couple of relatively good sources, Karimi had a 5 million Euro two year contract, in a country with no or little taxes... if anything close to that number is true, that could mean a 2 mil pay this year. that's a lot of money. Karimi gave it to them real good last year. The contract is fully binding, and that's why there are no takers.. If Karimi negotiated the $$, I am sure he will get offers from much better clubs.. but he won't. and he shouldn't.

The man's cashing in..
good for him.

I think he will give it another shot for the WC run.. we'll see how it goes. we might not need him, but we sure could use him at times.

The way I see it, there is no difference where he plays.. he ain't 22. He has always required an extra emotional factor for him to get excited and bust his arss.. Maybe another shot at the WC is something that could get him excited again, I don't know.. maybe.

But I really think that He knew, after that injury, that he will never be the same , ever again. I really believe that.

[Kaveh]

... to Al Saliya which has a grand total of 30 fans !!!!
.

[yashar_fasihnia]

so how many of those 30 fans are iranians?

[maij]

so how many of those 30 fans are iranians?

With Karimi in this team , I guess you will probably see a couple of hundreds more fans perhaps a little more.

I am still puzzled why Qatar FC did not attract significant number of Iranians fans last season when karimi was playing with them....

[zzgloo]

How would a ,bottom of the league,Qatar league, with " 30 fans " could afford to pay 4.7 million ( Euros ) to karimi,and may be more to its two brazilian players..?................
I wonder which is more stupid.....paying so much money for nothing....
or pay so much money to hezbullah,and hamas ?
Could stupidities come in different shapes ?

[maij]

How would a ,bottom of the league,Qatar league, with " 30 fans " could afford to pay 4.7 million ( Euros ) to karimi,and may be more to its two brazilian players..?................
I wonder which is more stupid.....paying so much money for nothing....
or pay so much money to hezbullah,and hamas ?
Could stupidities come in different shapes ?

Bahram jan... this is how it works.

The bulk of the transfer fees awarded to the players by the club is funded by the Qatar FA and the government. So in reality the FA owns the contract. Since a club does not want to continue a contract with a player , they return him back to the Qatar FA for relocation to another club or ending the player's contract.

In Karimi's case , it was too expensive to pay severance pay , so they found him the worst possible club they could think of perhaps hoping that Karimi gets fed up and leaves on his own accord.

Basically , it is a legal way of humilating him.

[Kaveh]

^correct, but I doubt Karimi would bother.

[zzgloo]

Bahram jan... this is how it works.

The bulk of the transfer fees awarded to the players by the club is funded by the Qatar FA and the government. So in reality the FA owns the contract. Since a club does not want to continue a contract with a player , they return him back to the Qatar FA for relocation to another club or ending the player's contract.

In Karimi's case , it was too expensive to pay severance pay , so they found him the worst possible club they could think of perhaps hoping that Karimi gets fed up and leaves on his own accord.

Basically , it is a legal way of humilating him.

Thanks for explaining,majid jaan...how ever,I have more questions now than before.....
What makes a club, to deciede so fast on a player...????
I know we talked about karimi not being the old karimi, but any player may go to a slump period.............how come they, the qataries, so suddenly figured karimi is so bad for them, that they can not even tolerate him for a final season ?....Karimi can not be that Bad ! for such a mediocare team....
And if,the QFA reassign karimi, as continuation of his previouse contract...why did they have to set " The new term,4.7 million " for him..and why not,just same amount he had in his old contract ?
What the old team did not shop him and traded him during the off season ?
And if this was a late decision, what caused it ? His coach in the arab team ?....his slump ?, or him not being the Iranian TM player ?

[maij]

I don't think the term "fast decision" is quite accurate Bahram jan, because Qatar FC had Karimi for a full season. Of course , I am not talking on their behalf , but the motive of getting such an expensive and famous player such as Ali Karimi for Qatar FC was to win championship, which they failed miserably. In fact at one stage Qatar FC with Karimi were languishing near the bottom of the table , then they recovered late in the season but way too far from the leaders such as Al Gharafa on points.

When a clubs , or the government in this case , pays such huge amount for players , they expect a return. To them this player must deliver and there is no time for such player to acclimatize or gradually improve. They are looking for instant success and results.


The change of the coach must have had an impact on the final decision of Qatar FC as well.

About the contract fee, I have no reliable source of information , but I really doubt that they have increased the fee or changed the original contract signed a year ago. Basically it is the continuation of the 3 years contract.

As for the attempt to sell karimi , again I have no reliabe source except some Qatari newspapers articles , which is not official of course mentioning that Qatar FC is looking for a replacement for Karimi. I suppose that means that his club were looking to sell his contract as well.

The Arab clubs are known to have little patience with players and coaches. They demand instant success and have zero tolerance. Their whole mentality is based on "Blame Culture". This is evident in their post match analysis on TV , where every analyst looks for a player or two to blame , rather than looking at the bigger picture. Unfortunately , this is not too different from the way some members in PFDC way of thinking. Point fingers at one or two players , and you are in Business!!! In Qatar FC , blaming Karimi was the easiest escape becuse he cost so much and was an international player ex Bayen Munich.

In case of Qatar FC , the expectation was quite high from Karimi. His scoring record was dismal, even a Moroccan defender scored more goals than him. But at the end of the season , his performance was way below the club's expectation, which convinced the management that they have bet on the wrong player.

Blaming Karimi alone for their poor result is absolutely unjustified, but this is the way these people manage their club unfortunately. And I hate to say , that I personally had my doubts and Informed Ali Agha Karimi about it in person.

[maij]

^correct, but I doubt Karimi would bother.

Do you mean bother leaving the club?

I really don't know , Kaveh Jan. Trying to figure what is on Karimi's mind is as difficult as finding the cure for MS.

Karimi is well off despite some commercial venture set backs he had in UAE. But wealth is something purely personal. Some are satisfied with Million dollar in the bank , while others with billions in asset well be working to the last minute of their lives to add a few millions just before they are put 6 feet deep in the ground!

But , let me say that playing for a mediocre club in Qatar league , is not an honorable act for a player in the satuture of Ali Karimi. It is a insult to football in Iran in my opinion.

[Ali Chicago]

Do you mean bother leaving the club?

I really don't know , Kaveh Jan. Trying to figure what is on Karimi's mind is as difficult as finding the cure for MS.

Karimi is well off despite some commercial venture set backs he had in UAE. But wealth is something purely personal. Some are satisfied with Million dollar in the bank , while others with billions in asset well be working to the last minute of their lives to add a few millions just before they are put 6 feet deep in the ground!

But , let me say that playing for a mediocre club in Qatar league , is not an honorable act for a player in the satuture of Ali Karimi. It is a insult to football in Iran in my opinion.

Agha Majid,


Sorry for butting in. I promised I stay off this topic and tried hard for me. I just love (hey Payman, don't get it the wrong way!!! ) this man. I never was as talented as 1/1000 of some one like Karimi. Maybe he in a way is what I wanted to become and never became. So I am really can't help when I see all this pressure on this man.
I dont' mean to disrespect anyone here, but can't we all lay off Karimi. Why we are putting the expectations of a nation on the shoulder of a single player? Maybe he was a super hero and could carry that burden, maybe he is not. Based on much more closer and contact you had with him, it seems later is the case in case of Karimi.

From the moment he went to Bayern,right or wrong we (yours truly included) expected so much of this man. Maybe all he is, is a footballer and doesn't have a strong personality and doesn't see the things in such a forsighted manner. But he is a god damn good (what I am saying a great footballer). Ali Karimi is best when he is left alone and all he has to worry about is football and ball and twisting Michael Ballack left and right within the 18 yards of German goal.

I am not in the Persian Gulf coutnries and don't know, but blaming Karimi ONLY for the failure of Qatar F.C isn't fair. I noticed that you never did and listed other elements as well. But I think all Karimi need is to be left alone and let him do what he is best at, football. Since his early days (suspension by AFC for hitting the Japaneese ref), this man was in the BULL's EYE. It is not anyone's fault. He is a superstar and this is part of the job. But maybe we need to accept what Karimi is for. A GREAT FOOTBALLER, BUT NOT A PERSON WITH DEEP FORSIGHT AND ......

Not that you and I make any difference, but I wish, we all somehow try to lay off Karimi and let him be. There is so much talent, that even if he only uses 30% of it,he still can perform at the world stage.

One more thing, If Ali's motivation is only money, I won't blame him. I dont' agree with it, but I have to respect it. Let's remember our team needs a player of his caliber and the job of a good manager (head coach) is to find a way to use people with different motives to work within in the team frame work.

[zzgloo]

The Arab clubs are known to have little patience with players and coaches. They demand instant success and have zero tolerance.

Blaming Karimi alone for their poor result is absolutely unjustified, but this is the way these people manage their club unfortunately. And I hate to say , that I personally had my doubts and Informed Ali Agha Karimi about it in person.

Thanks majid jaan......
Indeed, it seems, you have accumulated very valueble insights,about persian gulf nations, thier football,and thier culture etc........., I Also hope you ,like karimi,and many others who live there, are makeing lots of money !

Not haveing patience is ,the name of the game every where, and it is capitalism.........and more over, just like , smaller companies pay more to employees,but there is less job securities, so is with Football....
And , You were wise, to have warned him.....Karimi's agent must have told him,that this is going to be like this.....so, it is safe to say, karimi knew this was comeing to him !!!
.................................................. .....................................

[zzgloo]

Agha Majid,
Sorry for butting in. I promised I stay off this topic and tried hard for me. I just love (hey Payman, don't get it the wrong way!!! ) this man. I never was as talented as 1/1000 of some one like Karimi. Maybe he in a way is what I wanted to become and never became. So I am really can't help when I see all this pressure on this man.
I dont' mean to disrespect anyone here, but can't we all lay off Karimi. Why we are putting the expectations of a nation on the shoulder of a single player? Maybe he was a super hero and could carry that burden, maybe he is not. Based on much more closer and contact you had with him, it seems later is the case in case of Karimi.
From the moment he went to Bayern,right or wrong we (yours truly included) expected so much of this man. Maybe all he is, is a footballer and doesn't have a strong personality and doesn't see the things in such a forsighted manner. But he is a god damn good (what I am saying a great footballer). Ali Karimi is best when he is left alone and all he has to worry about is football and ball and twisting Michael Ballack left and right within the 18 yards of German goal.
I am not in the Persian Gulf coutnries and don't know, but blaming Karimi ONLY for the failure of Qatar F.C isn't fair. I noticed that you never did and listed other elements as well. But I think all Karimi need is to be left alone and let him do what he is best at, football. Since his early days (suspension by AFC for hitting the Japaneese ref), this man was in the BULL's EYE. It is not anyone's fault. He is a superstar and this is part of the job. But maybe we need to accept what Karimi is for. A GREAT FOOTBALLER, BUT NOT A PERSON WITH DEEP FORSIGHT AND ......
Not that you and I make any difference, but I wish, we all somehow try to lay off Karimi and let him be. There is so much talent, that even if he only uses 30% of it,he still can perform at the world stage.
One more thing, If Ali's motivation is only money, I won't blame him. I dont' agree with it, but I have to respect it. Let's remember our team needs a player of his caliber and the job of a good manager (head coach) is to find a way to use people with different motives to work within in the team frame work.

Ali Jaan, like you, I used to play alot...and frankly, without arrogance, I must say, I was very good too !.........................at least good enough, to know what is good, and who has got the talent and who does not...and noticeing there is that other element..which is the intelegence of a player, and coachability .....
karimi, although,his talents are needed for TM...and we need him, but I would not call him super duper....
If you look at the high lights of his time in Bayern....he most often was man handled and lacked storng stand physics...and he is fenes kind of player....
I consider karimi,May be little better than " Noori khadayari ", but in same catagory.....
Only, recently , after comeing from bayern I have seen passes from him worthy of TM.......I had never seen, anything impresive from him other than dribbling ( no heading, no accurate shots, no speed, no great passing,etc). .....which that also has deminished...yet,his passing is getting better.
By contrast,mahdavikia,has no particular super talents either...but, he is a fighter,and he is a fast learner....which I can not say that about karimi....

[maij]

Ali Jan...
My motive is nothing but the support for Ali Karimi. For some reason , I also have belief in him and believe that he has still quite a bit to offer for Team Melli. If we lay off Karimi , then we have abandoned him. If we motivate him and fans demand the best from him , he will feel the requirement to improve and excel once again. OK...I am not expecting top form , but 29 or 30 years old is not exactly the end of the line for a footballer , specially a professional like Karimi.

He needs support , moral or otherwise. He needs to know that people are looking for him and that is a burden that he must take some responsibility. Abandoning him , means he feels unwanted and that is NOT exactly what we want at this stage.

No point of putting our head in the sand thinking Karimi is at top form while he isn't and he is being neglected for reasons beyond form and ability.