The difference between PP & sepahan's case

[TM-Fan]

What is the reason behind , $3.5 million annual budget for each PP,and SS ,plus additional money when ever they are short in expendetures ?
While teams like, bargh,and Mess kerman,and others are in deep money crunch ?
just like , Gladiators of old ROME,and the colesium..in which the objective was to control people by means of entertaiment !.....and the same reason for such huge support for PP,and SS,that Mr. Aliabadi acknowledged about the $3.5mil........................
The whole Idea,is to Control,people and and keep them bussy !
and once,we understand that, we will realize that the overall improvement of football although nice, but it is not the objective of tarbiat badani,as much as ' The Show ' of the Gladiators !

And it is interesting how they spend this money, since every single foreign player that they hire files a complaint against them in Fifa for his salary.

This last time, they hired a sick player and then they didn't pay his salary until Fifa deducted the 6 points. Then they not only paid his salary, they also paid the interest AND got the point deduction. Now they are paying even more money to hire an attorney and file a complaint agaist Fifa!! And Kashani talks with pride in TV and says he is following "national interest" by following the case.

[Doctor DOOM]

do u know its 3.5 million for a fact becaue last night khordbin was pissed of and telling they only get 700 million from tarbeyat badani and most the money comes from the sponsors

poor little babies !
only 700 mil ( disclosed. and we all know disclosed amounts are not exactly the right amounts ) !!!!!
ever wondered how much teams like fajr, malavan, ... get ?

[zzgloo]

do u know its 3.5 million for a fact becaue last night khordbin was pissed of and telling they only get 700 million from tarbeyat badani and most the money comes from the sponsors

i have to go and find the interview with Aliabadi.just two mounths ago.....it was an interview in which he talked about how many stediums they are going to build and how many is already under construction...., in which he said, PP and SS get 3.5 million dollars annualy !

[Mr Pouya]

What is the reason behind , $3.5 million annual budget for each PP,and SS ,plus additional money when ever they are short in expendetures ?
While teams like, bargh,and Mess kerman,and others are in deep money crunch ?
just like , Gladiators of old ROME,and the colesium..in which the objective was to control people by means of entertaiment !.....and the same reason for such huge support for PP,and SS,that Mr. Aliabadi acknowledged about the $3.5mil........................
The whole Idea,is to Control,people and and keep them bussy !
and once,we understand that, we will realize that the overall improvement of football although nice, but it is not the objective of tarbiat badani,as much as ' The Show ' of the Gladiators !

do u know its 3.5 million for a fact becaue last night khordbin was pissed of and telling they only get 700 million from tarbeyat badani and most the money comes from the sponsors

[zzgloo]

bahram jan, I didnt get this part.
could you plz explain what control, how and which ppl ?

What is the reason behind , $3.5 million annual budget for each PP,and SS ,plus additional money when ever they are short in expendetures ?
While teams like, bargh,and Mess kerman,and others are in deep money crunch ?
just like , Gladiators of old ROME,and the colesium..in which the objective was to control people by means of entertaiment !.....and the same reason for such huge support for PP,and SS,that Mr. Aliabadi acknowledged about the $3.5mil........................
The whole Idea,is to Control,people and and keep them bussy !
and once,we understand that, we will realize that the overall improvement of football although nice, but it is not the objective of tarbiat badani,as much as ' The Show ' of the Gladiators !

[Doctor DOOM]

That whole point in haveing a league is to " Control people "....

bahram jan, I didnt get this part.
could you plz explain what control, how and which ppl ?

[zzgloo]

yesteday,in an written interview with " yavary ", the bargh's coach,he was asked how the league could be improved next season...and he said, """some one needs to tel mr.aliabadi, that the league is not just PP,and SS !!!, and the others need budget and care as well !! """"
And this is the whole point, and I like to say to Mr.Yavari.. That whole point in haveing a league is to " Control people "....and once we understand that, there should not be any question or comment like that, nor should any one wonder why things happened in sepahan the way it happened.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I'm afraid your prophecy may turn out to be true !!!

sad. isnt it ?
how a bunch of incompetent partisan fools can ruin a progressing trend in football with foolish decisions and think they can get away with it with no repercussions !

[TM-Fan]

^thumbup:

I am just thinking that the next time Sepahan and PP play in Esfahan, the violent acts will probably continue in a stronger form. Esfahani fans will think that their team is a victim of injustice to play half of the season outside Esfahan in such a heavy scheduled season and get the point reduction, while PP gets away with no punishment for a similar fault.

The IFF made a mistake to punish Sepahan in that severe form instead of addressing the root cause, and planted the seed for future violences...

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, the very same "live ammunition" has been used many many times before and mostly in azadi, in fact.
( we've discussed this issue during the isfahan incident and I dont want to go over every point again ).

You may be right in one thing that becoz a soldier got injured in isfahan, the govt felt they had to react and in haste, instead of catching the PRIMARY culprit, which is the fan(s) who threw the grenade or even the SECONDARY culprit, which is NAJA who didnt do their job of searching the fans for such elements, they pounced on the shahrestani club. ( even then, many did say had it happened in tehran with ss/pp hosting , the verdict would have been different ).

now, I'm sure you all agree that did set a precendence. They cited "fan violence leading to severe injury to member(s) of public". maybe at the time IFF didnt think about its repercussions, but today, we see that coming back and biting them in the arse. today also, we have the exact same "fan violence leading to severe injury to members of public.

sadly, until today noone has found the real guilty or even bothered about NAJA's hand in it. even then, many of us ( curiously very few pp fans though ... for understandable reasons ) did bring up NAJA's major role in that incident and how they shd have been found guilty ( if not more than the club, at least on par with it ) and somehow with mainstream media ( situated in tehran ) focusing on sepahan only and the prospect of them losing points ( and PP getting some relief as a result ), ignored the issue and almost neglected to discuss the failure of NAJA in maintaining the security as well as their duty in making sure such objects didnt get into the stadium !!!!
very much in the vein of how , today, the very same media is busy with championship articles left and right to satisfy the hunger of masses of fans for the popular pp, and is ignoring the very same issue they pounced on during isfahan incident !!!!!!

the media's modus operandi is very similar to the rubbish you see in smear campaigns as well.
remember days before pp-sepahan game suddenly some rags started the rumor that sepahan hadnt paid the soldier and were expected to lose more points. thus creating negative publicity for sepahan ahead of the game. all in order to serve the popular tehrani team's interests. much like the regular smear campaigns like the swift-boat group against J. Kerry since you are in the US and am sure do keep up with politics there.
the purpose of such smear campaigns is to create disturbances and negative mood. even if a few days later you are forced to print a correction, the IMPACT has been already achieved.
sepahan has repeatedly explained they have the actual receipt of the draft they made towards the soldier's account. you just cant cook up a reciept out of nowhere. but many fans ( some members here on pfdc even ) did talk about it and ... .
wonder why the very same papers dont run those articles on the issue of sepahan's failure to pay the soldier anymore !!!!!

-------------

and btw, I dont think the rule said " ONLY if a soldier is injured, the club shd be held responsible".

[zzgloo]

I think, the difference between the cases are Poletical !!
for ultra sencetive Islamic republic,that crushes slightest up rising by any one, be it students,women,teachers,etc.....the case in Sepahan was against Government soldier,and live amunations were used....had it not been punished, it would have given people wrong ideas ( from the regim's point of view ).

[Doctor DOOM]

the "number" of fans shd not be any excuse for such cases.

notice we are NOT talking about cases like sudden massive rush to the exit after a fire break out or ... .
this has NOTHING to do with the number of fans and you know it very well ( but since it is PP, somehow many of you dont want to accept the truth! which is very unbecoming of you )

this was "clashes" between rival fans.
this is a different case.

in other similarities, if you've read the reports, much like the sepahan case, here, PP fans and azadi stadium management denied a lot of sepahan fans from entering the stadium as well.
in fact UNLIKE sepahan's case, here, sepahan fans werent allowed to even make the required 10% visiting fan limit !

and in fact, due to PP fans' pressure in isfahan, the area alotted to them was largely expanded and moved to a far better pocation ( almost middle of the ground ) while sepahan fans were still restricted to the TOP floor, in one CORNER ( not center ) of the stadium.


third similarity is the crux of the issue, which is the clubs, as long as they dont OWN these stadiums or security forces, cannot be held responsible for such incidents.
if we're talking about Saba or saipa or paas who OWN their stadiums, then it'll be a different matter.
but neither sepahan nor pp own naghshe-jahan or azadi ... or the security forces.
but IF IFF has such a skewed law to actually hold the hosts responsible for such incidents, then it is only fair to expect application of the law in all cases and not "selected" ones.


as I said in general forum.
it is not as if we say pp didnt deserve to win the game.
coz they played better and deserved it ( although not the "WAY" they did. perhaps with that kaabi penalty )
but it is very disturbing to see members here suddenly make a 180 and refuse to even own up to their own words during the sepahan game. now, that's double standards.
and more than that, it is disturbing & amusing to see how pp fans refuse to even acknowledge the double standards and be secure and fair enough to say "yes. it happened. and we cant do anything about it" !
that's all.

[BehzadB]

DD,

being "similar" wasn't what I objected to.. I object to the fact that you claimed that the two cases "..amount to the exact same thing"...

of course they are similar.... in both, fans were involved..

in this one some fans beat each other up.. in the other one, Sepahan fans lit up a few grenades and throw them at the other crowd...

they are different, regardless how one tries to draw similarities..

Saket, Sepahan, PP, fans, you , Us, the police, all and all should be happy that while we had 150k screaming, fanatic, crazy fans in one place we still managed to come out with 25 injuries with 1 serious situation.

the thing that happened in Esfehan happened while HALF of the stadium was completely empty.. some body f*cked up.. it was the Isfehani football guys and Sepahan management who were responsible ..

Saket is powerful enough to keep an UNFAIR ruling hurt his team.. believe it.
He whines because he has nothing else to say.. every coach and management guys in Iran whine when their own operation fails to produce result.. From parvin to Daie to hejazi , fatolah zadeh, saket, kashani .. all of them.. they all whine when they lose..

ghotbi is the only Iranian coach that hasn't whined , YET... once he is there long enough, he'll learn..

p.s: point taken on the "..don't recall" point..

[Doctor DOOM]

and here's Mr. Hooshang Naseerzadeh, a qualified refereeing committe member:

he, also, admits reduction of points is not the correct method for addressing the issue of fan voilence.
very true and many of us did say that in sepahan's incident as well ( although many - not all - red fans were gleeful about it and demanded it ).

so IFF shd either return those 3 points reduction for sepahan or reduce pp's by 3 to uphold ITS OWN RULING & LAW.

[Doctor DOOM]

for those who dont see parallels, here is a report.

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showpost.php?p=995511&postcount=29

btw, behzad jan, when someone says "I dont recall ... ", dont take words "literally" bro. you know the writer is trying to get ppl to retell and confirm the truth that he knows too.

the cases are similar becoz of :
1- fan violence
2- injuries incurred due to the voilence
3- lack of security

in fact, in PP's case, you could add the following nuances:
it was the VISITING fans who were injured by the HOST fans.
but that's besides the point.

anyway, I'd like to remind everyone of all those posts done by pp fans during sepahan's incident and what they said and demanded and most importantly, DEEMED FAIR.

what happened now?
now, suddenly the same matter becomes UNFAIR ?