Ali Daie - Back to Branko

[zzgloo]

In addition to what maij said, I recall the comparison of the coaches !
Did we see how beautiful the mexican coach had prepared mexico against Argentina ?.....
Did we see Scolari and portugal to play against holland and alike ?
what are we supposed to have expected , from Branko, an previouse assistant to a third rate coach ?...............or our " unique " talents ?...or our " Class of football " ?.......
what can we expect from a team that loses 3 - 0 to a third division english team ?
The avoiding higher class friendlies, although wrong, and fony FIFA ranking had indeed created false assumptions for many !

[maij]

whoever who is somebody in soccer (non-Iranians) claim Iran underachieved in WC 2006. FIFA'a article numerous time refered after "lackluster" WC 2006 performance when it refers to events about the TM.

I watched games on ABC America, and Eric Wynalda numerous times mentioend how weak Iran perofromed. The other commentator ( I forgot his name) guy on Fox Sport for the Club championship (Sepahan - New Zeland team) that was broadcasted live on Fox Soccer Sport metnioned the same thing.

Ali Jan , since when did Eric Wynalda suddenly become an expert in Iran's football ??? What does he know of Iran's football to consider his comments as an expert opinion with credibility ??? Or are you assuming that he is on ABC America automatically elevates him to an expert level?

Coming 4th in the group of 4 with 1 point and 2 goals being scored by our defenders, if it is not underacheiving I dont' know what it is.

So enlighten us...... What was the rightful place for Iran in WC2006 and qualify it please.

Why Daie is back?

Iran's government is a theocratic, ideological government. So like any other ideological government in the past or future, the selection criteria for executives isn't only the expertise and merits. It is about how comfortable the ideological government feels about that person. GN got the head coaching job exactly because of that. Ghotbi didn't get the job since he is not trusted by inner circles of the Government. Ali Daie is. Mabye he is not a Hezbollahi, but his business acueman is sharp enough to act in certain way to gain the trust of the government. The current government in Iran (AN government) is a new breed of an ideological government who is trying to maitain a balance between expertise and "maktabiness" or at least being "trustable".

I am not here to defend the Iranian government or the regime , but in general , such things as promoting people within the circle , is not an exclusive Iranian tradition, it happens around the globe.
The claiming that Daei is there because of his closeness to the government , while not crediting his achievements is a pure twisting of facts and convenient tool to discredit the man.

The fact that he is the World record holder of goalscoring , the fact he played over a century of matches for Team Melli , the fact that he played for major European/German clubs, the fact that he worked with exceptionally professional coaches , the fact the managed to win a league championship with Saipa ...... All those are irrelevant facts for selection as a coach , but the assumption that he gained the respect of the hierarchy of the Islamic republic is the reason for his selection......

Hmmmmmmm..... Why do I feel there is some fishy tale here ???

Now it seems our nation collectively trying to make heros from people who have been tried before.

If this refers to Daei , then he has earned the Hero status hands down, by merit , acheivments, dedication , hard work and the passion for his country that is exmplary and he did not acheive that by sitting behind a keyboard with a fast internet connection either.
Attempts to discredit Daei will hardly stop mostly from people who have issues with him since his playing days based on the ridiculous notion that he has imposed himself on Team Melli roster or those @Parvinist@ that still despise him for standing against their Soltan aka the all mighty .
I have yet to see some constructive criticism from neutrals to convince me that the man is an evil .

But if you have a nation where their so-called educated and qualified professional pass comments such as "IFF is looking for a Turkish translator to assist Daei in Team Melli " you can much measure the level of mediocrity , hatred and contempt they carry in their inner heart for those public figures who have made the grade.

Luckily though, these people are in the minority.

[maij]

Doc.

You said " by going by what IFF sets as target, arent we selling our team short?" , let me for the sake of argument say that you have a point.
What is the solution : fans like me and you decide what is the target and what the ceilings of achievements be ?

Offer us a workable sensible solution on setting targets.

Potential: So , I assume that you think that Iran in 2006 should have qualified for the next round beating the likes of Mexico and Portugal and perhaps making it to the Semi-finals....... On what basis ? What has Iran shown in World football in the last 30 years to even think that Team Melli deserves a place amongst the elites????

Is it the fantastic resources that are available in Iran , with state of the art football pitches ?
Is it the players who have exceptional skills and professional mentality with high level of discipline ??
Is it the foundation and infrastructure that is second to none??
Is it the investment in the sport that is exemplary ???
Is it the professional organization and managment of football in general and the league in particular??

What is this potential that you see in Iran's football that I cannot see or feel , in order to make you believe that Iran has the right to be amongst the elite?

Give me some thoughts on that please , but please be less speculative as you frequently assume that if this played that and Mr X was in charge , things would have been different. There is no way that you or me can argue constructively if you use the laws of assumptions.

[Doctor DOOM]

Yashar jaan........lets gang up against payman !!
this statement of yours some how rings a bell !!
for some reason, payman, is very logical, and offers insight on most issues, he also shows a control, and balance, and responds with maturity against, inexperinced members, he also is the " light" , of most threads !, but when it comes to Branko, he loses it !!
Why is that payman jaan ?

1- Bahram jan, I hardly shy away from a good debate and argument. In fact the days I have always loved on pfdc were done debating on issues. that's how one increases his knowledge and acquires a wider view of the world.
so dont worry. as these yankees say : bring it on, bro.

2- the problem is yashar did NOT read what I've repeated in many threads on the mess denizli faced at PP.
all yashar jan and others talk about is : "did denizli win anything" !!!!!
that doesnt make sense whatsoever. and I did address it in my post.


3- I lose it becoz I can never forgive what branko did to our TM.

I truly believe :
A) we had the very BEST pool of talent available to us in a looooooong time and perhaps in years to come even.

B) we had a easy-as-fu*k route of qualification , ever in our history , and never to be repeated , which allowed us to not only qualify with no hassles ( as majid jan mentioned ) but leave enough time to plan and prepare a strong team extracted from the pool mentioned above.

C) after seeing the opponents and espeically having seen how mexico played against us, the feeling of regret and missed opportunity was just OVERWHELMING !

this was Iran's RARE chance to shine and go for the jugular. to make a name for ourselves. to defy the "written odds" and the "word on paper". and we f**ked it up so badly that just makes it unforgivable.
f**ked up not only during the games, coz by that time, it was too late. but during the run up to the games. during the last year before the games.
repeated warning signals that even a simple-minded fan like me noticed a year in advance. repeated missed chances. repeated lajbaazi and pig-headed attitude which served only ONE person: branko.
coz he was after one thing only: to put this line in his cursed resume' : coached a team at a world cup!!!

and we, Iran, lost its chance to not only the lofty goal of making a name for itself, but even the mediocre goal of reaching its potential !!!

hence the attitude whenever I see his cursed name in the same sentence as TM.

[Doctor DOOM]

u talk about football, realistic and prediction of a match that never happened (JAPAN A vs IRAN A under branko in japan) all in the same argument?? thats contradictory, cos in football, something becomes realistic only after the game is played.
as long as the game hasnt been played, ..........

yashar jan, an example for realistic is this, which relates to what I said about japan A vs Iran A or ... etc:

if belgium plays france, is it UNREALISTIC to think more often than not france would win? so if one has to make a call, the call would favor france instead of belgium.
yes, there are chances and possibilities ( not probabilities, though ) that belgium beats france once in a while, but the hard money is on france. correct? unless france has a bad day and belgium somehow manages to win. but what is the % of this ?

and yes, despite what many claim about Iran's utter superiority in asia, we are NOT that superior. we havent been for a long time. apart from lack of trophies, the head-to-head stats against the asian top dogs supports that too. and not only stats, but the actual quality comparison, including all the peripheral issues of football considered, supports this argument.
we are , REALISTICALLY speaking, asia's fifth best team.


as for ur "examples", all I can do is smile !
you bring up exceptions like greece !! hah !
what did greece do after that? so next time greece play france or holland or ... are you going to bet ur house on greece? really ?
need I even waste time proving the universal knowledge that "exceptions dont prove rules" ?
I hope not.


so what are the chances of an exception happening as compared to the chances of normalcy prevailing?
hell, if these events had any chance more than 10% of happening, nobody would label them EXCEPTIONS, would they ?
common sense, bro.

------------

I think this thread, and countless others that keep associating branko with TM shd answer ur query about whether "ppl have moved on" or not.

===================

afterall, like majid said, denizli had 2 years with 2 of irans best clubs and squads and delivered nothing

as for "delivering cups & trophies" which is a flawed thinking:
I dont like to think there's anyone who doubts Arsen Wenger's capabilities as a top class coach in football, anywhere on the planet.
the guy was in charge of a great arsenal team but went quite a long looooonngg time without winning anything.
does that mean he's useless and shd not be considered for a nat'l team job?
it's BEYOND absurd.

thank god there are ppl who observe the QUALITY of football, instead of focusing on a set of numbers or existence of a cup that makes or breaks a coach for them !
that's why I say if we open our eyes we'd recognize our QUALITY is not on par with asia's best 4 teams.
yes, we may beat this one, one time, the other, another time. but in REALITY ( oh oh. that word again !! ) they are ahead of us.

football is not restricted to the numbers on the score-sheet or presence/absence of a cup. there's MORE to it.

==============

and the most IRONIC matter is you say you've read what I wrote, yet your reply betrays it.
did you notice how pp struggled with the repeated injuries to their prefered defenders like bagheri ? throughout the season.
did you notice how many times players like sheyss and elong went absconding from training and denizli was forced to play midfielders in defense ( along with strikers' post, btw ).
like noori who was absolutely un-used to defending or ashoubi who was used in defense. or ... .

we come back to what I said. some ppl look at numbers and decide they have understood what's happened during a football match !!!!
the same 4-0 games you mention, I let you know novices like noori would be at fault for at least 2 injured bagheri, rebel sheyss, missing elong, .... .

these are already covered elsewhere w regards to what happened to denilzi's pp. that's why I say you have missed these. otherwise I wouldnt need to repeat them !

===================

he inherited iran and probably asias biggest club but failed badly ...........

again, talking out of ur hat.
he inherited iran's best,... asia's this, ... that means absolutely jack.
REALITY is he inherited a pp that was 9th in the league before him.
REALITY is he inherited a pp that was closed by a faulty and deficient roster by aari haan, who didnt really cover the areas that needed mending at pp: defense and forwards !!!

so pp's reputation means jack sh*t when it doesnt have a defender or a striker to do the job. now, let's say that perspolis is more loved by the whol planet more than barca, madrid, man-ure , milan, ... combined.
so what ?

no wonder when you come up with exactly what branko used to do: concentrate on NAMES !!! the abu or fajr team that has defenders who run and are in the service of their team are far more useful than a more famous TEAM ( and players ) who either dont run, are injured or simply dont turn up for training !
this is typical branko mentality, which doesnt surprise me even a little bit !

here's some news for you: halfway through the seond half of season, denizli wanted to throw elong out after his repeated absence at training. only ansarifard forced him to reverse his decision and not fire the guy. but denizli, as much as it was possible left him out, even if it meant using ashoubi or noori, becoz discipline mattered to him. and the few times he used him, he had no option on the bench !

THIS was what he had to put up with. and you come here and talk about the NAME of pp, and the NAME/FAME of its players, it's reputation and fan base in asia, ... ????
hilarious !
becoz these name/fame/reputation would serve teams only in FANTASIES, buddy. not in REALITY.


again this shows you didnt read and I have to repeat the same stuff !
which becomes quite tiring after a while.

[Ali Chicago]

Agha Hadi;


I try to explain my poinst of veiw. First I make a rather long comment about your post and then i try to answre your question which was " if Branko was bad why Daie is back?).

My Commentary
You are entitled to your opinion of course. However, with no disrespect to you, whoever who is somebody in soccer (non-Iranians) claim Iran underachieved in WC 2006. FIFA'a article numerous time refered after "lackluster" WC 2006 performance when it refers to events about the TM.

I watched games on ABC America, and Eric Wynalda numerous times mentioend how weak Iran perofromed. The other commentator ( I forgot his name) guy on Fox Sport for the Club championship (Sepahan - New Zeland team) that was broadcasted live on Fox Soccer Sport metnioned the same thing.

Coming 4th in the group of 4 with 1 point and 2 goals being scored by our defenders, if it is not underacheiving I dont' know what it is.

As you are making general statements like Iran played Ali Asghair under GN, or TM changed. I disagree with them. GN team in the AFC (except Golmohamaid and Bakhteeyari zadeh, Daie retirement from TM and Mirzapoor injury) was Branko's team. If anything I criticize mr. GN is he didn't have "GUTS" to trust his instinct and change the team. He played Teymoorian because he plays in Bolton!!!!.

You say Iran played Ali Asghari under GN. Thank god people still remember the last two years of TM under Branko. It wasn't like Iran was playing high class football under Branko. For god damn 4 years Mirzapoor in the TM played day in and day out and still his playing with foot wasn't improved (with two goalie coaches mind you in the staff). Both Fakhreddiin Begovitch and Ahman Sajjadi were goalie coaches. You are man of statistic, how many of Iran's goals under Branko was scored on the "free kick" (Zarabate Estghahi). If TM played under Branko a high class dynamic football and then under GN didn't, I could see your point!!!!.
GN record speaks for itself (despite the negative environment that existed against him). You will see GN's future as a coach as well. He is just stupid with his PR and can't get the media backing.
I won't duel about any of these anymore, as I have written "Masnavi's" about Iran's performance in WC (disccusing it with Yashar) and GN era (against lie campaigns that Ala had against him). So let the sleepy dog lie and won't waste time and energy to argue about this point.

So now that I made my point about that. I try to answer your question that you posted in your original post (at least my point of view).

Why Daie is back?

Iran's government is a theocratic, ideological government. So like any other ideological government in the past or future, the selection criteria for executives isn't only the expertise and merits. It is about how comfortable the ideological government feels about that person. GN got the head coaching job exactly because of that. Ghotbi didn't get the job since he is not trusted by inner circles of the Government. Ali Daie is. Mabye he is not a Hezbollahi, but his business acueman is sharp enough to act in certain way to gain the trust of the government. The current government in Iran (AN government) is a new breed of an ideological government who is trying to maitain a balance between expertise and "maktabiness" or at least being "trustable".

Bringing Daie back has nothing to do with Branko. I have a hard time, to see how these two issues are interconnected. Yes during Branko Daie was the "favorite" and all. But I doubt (knowing how smart Mr. Daie is) he will bring Branko back to the TM. And I promise if he brings Branko back to TM or somehow there is a smallest hint of somehow Branko being directly or indriectly connected with the TM, there will be a huge back lash against Mr. Daie.

I beleive Mr. Daie is way smarter that this.

Ali

P.S. I am so saddened to see our nation in general has such a short historical memory. Reza Shah was "Reza Khan Gholdor" then when he was exiled to Morris by the allied forces became Reza Shah Kabir despite the man became the richest man in Iran at the time by force and government influence.

Same happened to Mohamadreza Shah. First he was the worst person and
"Sag Zanjiri America" and then now many people talk about his era (thanks to the mismangement of IRI" as if Iran was a heaven.

In a much smaller scale the same thing is happening to Daie and Branko, it seems.

I think Rumi has a poem that read:

Har ke namookht gozasht az roozeghar
Heech namoozad ze heech amoozghar

Now it seems our nation collectively trying to make heros from people who have been tried before.

[zzgloo]

oh trust me, if there is one persons posts i have read till the end, its urs simply because u cant let one pro-branko post go without replying.
while most members here have moved on, ur still jumping on every post that says anything positive about branko.

Yashar jaan........lets gang up against payman !!
this statement of yours some how rings a bell !!
for some reason, payman, is very logical, and offers insight on most issues, he also shows a control, and balance, and responds with maturity against, inexperinced members, he also is the " light" , of most threads !, but when it comes to Branko, he loses it !!
Why is that payman jaan ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

1- I think we have gone over this. and I remember saying the same thing: ;ets stick to REALITY and not fantasies.
and the reality, like it or not, is that a japan team IN JAPAN would come out on top far more times than we'd even want to admit.

so LOGIC answers you that if there was one slot , chances of japan prevailing far outweigh those of ours.
fantasies? I dont know and wont comment about.

but if you want over-simplified math, lets say since Japan's B > Iran's B in japan, it is very much possible and probable that Japan's A > Iran's A in japan.

so fantasies dont hold water here.

u talk about football, realistic and prediction of a match that never happened (JAPAN A vs IRAN A under branko in japan) all in the same argument?? thats contradictory, cos in football, something becomes realistic only after the game is played.

as long as the game hasnt been played, ur the one who is trying hard by including fantasies to discredit branko! un only speculating japan would win the game which may or may not have happened.

how do u know another iran-korea incident in korea under ghalenoi wouldnt happen against japan as well and we draw?
how do u know another greece - euro incident beating the likes of czech and portugal TWICE ON THEIR OWN TURF wouldnt happen?
even a draw would be enough to place iran on top.

realistic is only after iran loses to macedonia B team, greece wins the euro cup and perspolis concedes 4 goals left and right from every tom, dick and harry in azadi under denizli! THESE ARE DEFINITIONS OF BEING REALISTIC IN FOOTBALL, NOT:
1)a japan team IN JAPAN would come out on top far more times than we'd even want to admit!!!
2)japan B > iran B, so there its probable japan A > iran A!!!

sorry, but i dont see any realistic logic of urs here in this post. all i see is u trying hard to put branko down every chance u get on the boards while most members here have moved on.

2- again with the "selective" picking of phrases, terms, .... etc.

i've never said having legioners is bad. under a WISE and intelligent coach, they would be a boon for the TM. "wise & Intelligent" but.

I've also said foolishly over-relying on legioners , especially when they arent in form and/or giving them the sense of guarantee makes them complacent, and is detrimental to the team's fortunes. I think we saw a clear example of this at the WC.

lets not twist things here, shall we?
it's quite obvious you never read my posts on the matter of branko's use of legioners and how many things went wrong with that. otherwise you wouldnt have said these here ("chera hamash legionnaiaro bazi mide" )!!!!

besides talking about branko is very similar to beating a dead donkey ( pun intended, btw ).

oh trust me, if there is one persons posts i have read till the end, its urs simply because u cant let one pro-branko post go without replying.
while most members here have moved on, ur still jumping on every post that says anything positive about branko.

the point im trying to make is doctor, u always have something to put branko down for.
if he plays legionnaires and wins, the reason is there was no need for legionnaires. we need to play our IPL backups.
if he plays B team and loses, u can put down branko by saying, yea, why didnt we end up first in the group!
if he pays B team and wins, u can put down branko by saying, so wat, it wasnt convincing enough. we didnt play beautifully!

and if all this fails, then u come up with ur speculations which u define as "logic" and "being realistic" while u and me both know, there is no place for logic when it comes to predicting football!

in my humble opinion, u should push more for brazilian citizenship rather than denizli for TM coach to become a happy football fan
afterall, like majid said, denizli had 2 years with 2 of irans best clubs and squads and delivered nothing while conceding 4 goals from every tom, dick and harry left and right infront of thousands of fans in azadi!!
and u justify ur reasons as:

1)perspolis squad were only names
if perspolis players were only names, wat should the likes of abumoslem, peykan, fajr sepasi call their players, all of whom soorakhed denizli with 4 goals??? were their players any better or even equal to perspolis players??

2) perspolis came 9th the previous season and now 3rd!
So wat? fajr sepasi won the hazfi cup under gholam peyrovani! so he should be TM coach now?? all those coaches who saved the bottom teams from relegations?? all those coaches who made their teams like abumoslem and zobahan the best shahrestani team by coming 5th?? wat about those coaches, with a squad and a team weaker than perspolis still improving their position in IPL every season??/

3) perspolis played attractive football?
wat did he achieve with his attractive football? he inherited an ACL qualified team from majid jalali and couldnt even qualify to next ACL even though he had the league, the hazfi and the ACL! he inherited iran and probably asias biggest club but failed badly again both in hazfi and the league! thats 5 different tournaments in a span of 2 years, with 2 of the best teams in iran, and still 0 deliveries!!
the only thing he achieved was 4 goals left and right in azadi infront of 50000 fans or more, from the likes of abumoslem, peykan and a 9 man sepahan!!!

not to forget, his "committment" to pas when he left them in the most sensitive time period when they were battling with esteghlal over the 5th IPL torphy!! age enghad nemitunest kutah biyad, chejur entezar dari ba kolse fedrationo sazman tarbiyati kutah biyad??

so many clubs have changed coaches, TM has changed coaches, but noone even bothers to consider denizli as an option..except u! unless u know and can see something all these club and national team officials dont...!!!
but why only iran??? all around the world, in turkey itself, noone even bothers hiring him. i wonder why!

ghorbune un realistic budan & logicet doctor peyman, age in realistic budan va logice, i prefer my own fantasies!

[Doctor DOOM]

But by going by what IFF sets as target, arent we selling our team short?

as you said, GN was NOT given any particular target. so basically, they must have said do what you can and go as far as you can.
if it is true, then what the hell was all that charade after the games, bringing GN to TV and chastising him ... all the while, keeping quiet as to what THEY themselves were OK with, originally ?

secondly, this opens up the issue of a team's true potential and whether a team has actually under-achieved simply becoz they did exactly the amount that was "required". not one inch more, not one inch less !
It's very much like a good intelligent student is asked to pass an exam. he gets 10 ( out of 20 ). mission accomplished. but what was his true potential? he could have easily got to 14-15.
so to cut it short, I'm saying we shd not go by what the Fed'n sets as "deliverable limit".

under dadkan TM's goal was set to qualify for the WC !!!
shd we accept such a low bar? especially when we knew the qualification was extremely easy? the easiest route we've had in our entire footballing history.
so the "kid" got us exactly what was asked: a 10 .
no effort was done to raise it to 12 !! absolutely none.
hence the lajbaazi, stubborn attitude, indifference and care-free behavior, .... right after we sealed the qualification !!
and I hold dadkan also highly responsible, as he shd have set new bars and insisted on them.
we had the potential and we severely under-achieved.


as for delivery, I must say, majid jan, even if we had the most incapable TM coach of recent years (whoever ur pick may be. shahrokhi, MK, braga, .... anyone of them ) we would have DEFINITELY qualified for this WC. ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN OF IT.

===============

my position on denizli is very clear.
he is NOT my ideal coach for TM.
but given the circumstances we were and still are in, I think he's a far better choice than many of the names associated with TM. barring, of course, the likes of clemente who'd have been ideal.

I base this on what he did to both paas and especially PP.
at pp, with a set of mediocre players, with an aging ( which meant great many injury-affected roster compromises ), with quite a few rebels and trouble-makers ( sheyss, ollong, mamani, rezaeiyan, ... ), with absolutely no natural goal scoring forward, .... and most importantly, the "parvin factor" we all know , he made a team that played the BEST football in the league.
mostly exciting and attacking football which suits our natural style. and raised them from the 9th rank to 3rd rank, in one season.
My deduction is if he can make such a lousy set of players play that kind of football and with no out and out forward, end up scoring that many goals, imagine what he could do if the whole of Iran is open for his pickings.

[maij]

Doc....I can also give you a counter argument on the subject of Branko's road to the World Cup , but it will only prolonged the argument.

The essential thing about the coach is THE DELIVERABLES. Methods , means & tactics , becomes irrelevant when the coach delivers the goods.

Branko delivered.

I asked Ghalenoei in Malaysia if IFF has given him a target in the Asian Cup 2007 , after a lot of wheeling & dealing , he basically said , No targets was set. So, even Ghalenoei has delivered by taking the team to the next round.

To me and perhaps many other fans , it is the deliverables that counts. The federations sets the target and the coach uses whatever methods he deems fit to achieve the target.

We can , in theory , compare coaches but the fact remains that comparison is only creditable when you actually have something to compare with. For example you probably think that Denizli is a better choice for team melli , but that can not be qualified since he never had a day of coaching Team Melli.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- I think we have gone over this. and I remember saying the same thing: ;ets stick to REALITY and not fantasies.
and the reality, like it or not, is that a japan team IN JAPAN would come out on top far more times than we'd even want to admit.

so LOGIC answers you that if there was one slot , chances of japan prevailing far outweigh those of ours.
fantasies? I dont know and wont comment about.

but if you want over-simplified math, lets say since Japan's B > Iran's B in japan, it is very much possible and probable that Japan's A > Iran's A in japan.

so fantasies dont hold water here.
-------------------


2- again with the "selective" picking of phrases, terms, .... etc.

i've never said having legioners is bad. under a WISE and intelligent coach, they would be a boon for the TM. "wise & Intelligent" but.

I've also said foolishly over-relying on legioners , especially when they arent in form and/or giving them the sense of guarantee makes them complacent, and is detrimental to the team's fortunes. I think we saw a clear example of this at the WC.

lets not twist things here, shall we?
it's quite obvious you never read my posts on the matter of branko's use of legioners and how many things went wrong with that. otherwise you wouldnt have said these here ("chera hamash legionnaiaro bazi mide" )!!!!

besides talking about branko is very similar to beating a dead donkey ( pun intended, btw ).

[yashar_fasihnia]

to respond to doctor doom without openning the discussion as he says,
remember irans last game agianst japan which we lost and eventually made us second we played with our B team. japan too. cos we had qualified.
so there was no necessity to play with our A team.

doctor jan, if only 1 team would qualify from each group, we would have played our A team (and japan too), so things could have been different and maybe we could have lead the group since a draw was enough for us to maintain top spot in the group, we cant say! but since we had already qualified, there wasnt any reason to call all our legionnaires from europe just to make our teap qualify first in the group!!!

as ye taraf migi, chera hamash legionnaiaro bazi mide, vaghti ham ke nemide bejash bazikonaye iranio bazi mide, migi chera dovom shodim tu gurhemun!!

although overall i am a branko supporter, i agree with some of ur criticisms against him. however, this isnt one of them.

[Doctor DOOM]

Apart from 1978 qualification to the World Cup , he was the only one who made it without so much sweat and tears or last minute goal.

majid jan, at the risk of opening up some old discussions, I'd just say one thing:

if you compare the route and method of qualifications for each WC, then you would NOT say this.

in fact, you have a great site and set of records and stats at ur finger-tips to convince urself of this FACT that if we didnt sweat or didnt shed any tears, it was NOT becoz branko was in charge. it was becoz of the EASY as rain route of qualification:

--> we came SECOND team
in a group of FOUR teams,
having a clear 50% DIRECT qualification,
with two contenders ( 50% ) & two of the teams rank outsiders and hopeless teams,
with a set of players who had great exposure to modern int'l football,
and some being LEGIONERS in europe for YEARS,
after 3-4 years of a more professional DOMESTIC LEAGUE,
under a coach who was with the team for FIVE YEARS.
( teams : Japan, Iran, bahrain North korea )

now lets compare this with someone who's much hated and cursed in our football, MK's:

--> we came SECOND
in a group of FIVE teams, with THREE strong teams,
having a 20% direct qualification chance,
with a much inferiorly exposed players,
no legioners ,
and players off the old crappy bi-polar azadegan league,
with a coach who was the coach for about a year and half !!
( teams: KSA, Iran, China, kuwait, qatar )

I have highlighted the differing points and factors.

apart from the above, there are other distinguishing factors such as:
infrastructure and facilities were FAR more inferior in MK's time than branko's.

had it been the other way 'round and it was MK who was arse-lucky to have 50% chance of direct qualification even if his team came second, we'd be hailing MK as savior and messiah of TM now.
and likewise, if branko had a 20% chance in a 5 teams group, with one direct qualification, we'd have sat and watched the WC WITHOUT Iran being mentioned in it.
so I dont see why one shd give credit to a person when it was overwhelmingly LUCK and CHANCE that he got the KINDEST roll of the dice .

so if we want to hail someone as RESILIENT or just plain hail them highly, I think before even thinking about branko, we shd talk about guys like MK, shahrokhi, Ivic, talebi, ..... and LAST, come to branko's name.

=======================

Apart from 1978 qualification to the World Cup , he was the only one who made it without so much sweat and tears or last minute goal.

and btw, majid jan, under the very same branko, we almost didnt even advance to the final round of WCQ's .... had it not been for the very exact "last minute goal" ( to be precise, last seconds goal !!! ) by VH against qatar !
yes. we almost didnt even make it out to the final qualifiers.
the difference was only 7-10 SECONDS !!!!!
if the ref had blown his whistle only 10-11 seconds earlier, we'd have been eliminated !!!!!!!!! just 10-11 seconds

forgive me if I find it extremely hard to give credit to such a coach who has far too many strikes against him in his final 2 years of reign.

[zzgloo]

bahram jan, what one man may see as "humble and resilient", another man can look at it as "servile and indifferent to the point that he was ready to take any crap from anyone, as long as he somehow reached the WC as a coach on a bench of any team" !

payman jaan, what do you know about dealing with Iranian system ?dealing with massive, expectations, mafia, crazy media,looking for trouble, unorganizations !!, lack of infurstucture, too many,too much expectations, Aliabadi, IFF, etc,etc,etc......?...........how would you expect a European to deal with these ?.......in a civilized manner ??....being responsive to all ?
stay calm to Mafia, and media ?.....
His reaction may not have been the best, but frankly I can not recommand any other way myself.

[maij]

I rate Barnko Ivankovic quite highly.

But like everyman in this world he has his good side and bad side , even that is open to discussion as different people have different ideas about a subject. My only reservation about him is that he was ultra conservative, but tis is based at looking from the team as an outsider. I cannot dare to qualify it for certain unless I was involved in the team line up and the insider politics.

Apart from 1978 qualification to the World Cup , he was the only one who made it without so much sweat and tears or last minute goal.

If Daei wants to follow Branko's method , then he obviously has respect for him and has figured out that Branko's tactics or methods do work. That is only natural.

But , I guess Daei will have his own mixture of tactics and tactical planning. There is no harm in following certain plan if he believes it works. Basically , he does not need to re-invent the wheel.