TM - Need any improvements?

[Doctor DOOM]

I just saw a very scary thing in the poll above !!!

and that really ADDS to my worries over TM !

[ARYA]

You should PM if you have objection, not to change direction in this thread. But to answer your concern raised, you did disrespect on the exchange of opinion. I was very respectful when I responded to your first post despite your rude words. But it seemed as if that method of rude responses wouldn't go away. I guess some of you have different standard in what respect and disrespect means and I can't change that.
My suggestion is to read your own quote a few times and review that thread more carefully with your quote in mind:

One question for you!! Where in my posts did you view any disrespect or rude words!! I challenge you to point them out to me. As a matter of fact I believe at one point I even commanded you for voicing your opinion and standing by your cause.

Stop trying to point your finger at others and accept responsibility for your own words and actions.

And by the way, there's a great saying, which applies to some of our hamvatans whether the topic is football or else;

"People prefer to stay with problems they understand rather than look for solutions they're uncomfortable with."

[Mansoor]

One question for you!! Where in my posts did you view any disrespect or rude words!! I challenge you to point them out to me. As a matter of fact I believe at one point I even commanded you for voicing your opinion and standing by your cause.
Stop trying to point your finger at others and accept responsibility for your own words and actions.

Well, I really didn't wanna go in details in public but if you insist, sure. I am gonna post it here.

[Mansoor]

Now, I know we are at about the same age as I am, so I am not gonna go into trivial issues of what is "usually considered" rude or offensive or insulting in our ages. Also, I am gonna start with your own quote in this thread as the reference:

Just because some may not agree with your points of view, it does not give you the right to disrespect others

At times DD and I have exchanged few words of sarcasm which we have learned to put up with, and it certainly is nobody's business to interfere or object to, unless DD does himself which in that case I would have plenty to show why I "returned" the favor. (And DD jaan, sorry to get dragged into this, I had no choice but to explain, and sorry for "unrelated" post to your thread as I had no choice but to respond).

In that thread, I was addressing an issue with DD, NOT with you, when you posted this. Let's take a look at your openning statement:

Funny how TM means Branko and Branko means TM for some people...

Funny Arya jaan? Funny? What does that mean? Does that mean you are laughing at us for difference of opinion? Or does that mean it is "maskhareh"? What happened to your quote earlier?

Just because some may not agree with your points of view, it does not give you the right to disrespect others

Is this how you don't "disrespect" others? By "laughing" AT them? Or by considering and also publicly addressing it "maskhareh"? Then what happened to "just because some may not agree with your points of view" aziz?
And you continue in that post with more "unrelated" and "misunderstood" explanations about Parvin & Perspolis and Branko & TM. You end your post with the following:

Hummm, so this is what it means to have freedom of self-expression.

As if I have suggested in any way that "you have no right or no freedom to express your view"! Did I even address any issue in regard to that? Was there any talk FROM ME that ARYA or others have no right to express their views particularly in this forum? If not, isn't this "tohmat bija"? Isn't this insulting that you are implying "this is what it means to have freedom of self-expression"?

After that rude openning statement and that insulting end, I still responded to you addressing you as "ARYA jaan" with all my attempt to clarify what the discussion is all about. This is my full post in respond to your "Funny thing" post. All clear with second chance to put the discussion in more mature direction:

ARYA jaan, why are you mixing things up? What is this has to do with freedom of expression? You don't wanna support TM, don't. That is your choice. Nobody stops you to write as you just did.
Even the issue of Perspolis vs Team Melli are totally 2 different matters. "Not supporting" Perspolis is NOT a national matter, but TM is.
You guys talk about logic, then help me with this ARYA jaan:
How in the world you are gonna get a coach for TM NOW?
And how in the world this "super coavich" is gonna have time to work with the players?
Didn't I write about this 6 month ago? There was no time then, how are you gonna find time NOW?
These legioners are the heart and soul of OUR team. Without them, Iran wouldn't even be where she is now. You wanna tell me, Iran can go to face these WC teams without Karimi? Without Kia? Without Hashemian? Without Rezaii? Do you really see replacement for them? IF NOT, then how in the world you are gonna find free time to gather them to practice with new coach, new system, and new plan. After all you are pushing for changes ....
How much time can you realistically put together for these players to practice together under new system and along with "less-experienced" "less-professional" IPL players?
I never closed my eyes on Branko's shortcomings. I wrote about it way before many of you were jumping up and down ..... Check the dates back to even before Bahrain and Qatar games. And even recently. Nobody is perfect and he is no exception to the rule(and I am sure he knows that too). But I am staying "realistic" about this. This hypothesis that some of you have been pushing does NOT hold water. Too much holes in it. Just closing your eyes and say the hell let's change let's change doesn't work! This is football, not wrestling. Team sport needs time to synchronize under new system. New "super coavich" CAN NOT implement his system one month before WC. Yes sir, that is all the time he realistically will have..... along with possibly playing 2 friendlies that may get cancelled any minute! ...

Your response? NONE! You ignore this post. DD as usual comes in with lot of sarcasm and aggressive tone to change direction by ONLY quoting the very first part and "as usual" ignore the part that I address REAL ISSUES. Knowing how to deal with him, I respond with his own words. AGAIN, you come in and rather than responding to what I politely address to you, aggressively respond to matters that implies you have "no freedom of expression". Isn't it rather strange that you freely write and post but then claim not to have the freedom? Many many negativism is all over the board and you still accuse us? (what other member(s) "suggests" is his right)

That is not insult aghaye ARYA? Addressing it "funny" is not insult? Ignorance to my attempt is not insult? Accusing wrongfully is not? And then you came back and ask me to post it again. I am sorry I have certain patience but not unlimited. I have no choice but returning the favor in the same tone and to avoid the matter to go into more troubling stage, I closed the thread.

Let me remind you that I am talking about what is exchanged between US, not what I said to DD or any other member. Every instance has it's own reason and it is NOT related to your "challenge" here. I also used your exact openning afterward with DD, but it was meant to "return a favor" to him.

[khabalood]

I just saw a very scary thing in the poll above !!!

and that really ADDS to my worries over TM !

I just noticed that as well and it is now compounding my fears

[Doctor DOOM]

let me interject here, while this FALSE notion of "branko=TM" is brought up.


this is utter crap.

TM is TM. period.

it is never about the ppl in it.
not the players , nor the coaches , or staff or abdarchi or ... .

not about the greatest players like daei, abedzadeh, ghilichkhani, nor about those who played a few second.

so all of you who "TRY" to shove such notions down ppl's throats ... ( as means of defending or covering branko's are ), plz stop.

as it is, it's quite bad to see ppl prioritise ppl over the team ( many may even deny. but words and deeds prove it ).
but to equalize the TEAM ( in whatever avatar it presents ) to a person is not only FALSE, but criminal and an insult to the entity of the team.

so stop these insults, and cheer for the TEAM ... irrespective of who is there and who is not.

..... unless your priorities are different.

[ARYA]

Dear football-doost, I have taken the liberty of posting all of my replies to yours and others in the specific thread bellow for all to see, let others be the judge of who has been rude and/or disrespectful.

My opening post in this thread;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Persepolis
i think portugal and mexico are great opponents for us considering our team tactics
and plannings and preparations. we should definitely play "Tarsoo" against these teams
coz they are deadly on offense. branko will limit the
offense to optimum periods. you are right about the probable scoreline.
we are most probably not gonna rip them apart. no 6-0 or even 3-0 thrashing.
but, we can win at least one of the games and draw the other in addition
to winning Angola, that can give us enough fuel for lift off.

My reply to Persepolis:
What you propose is the exact recipe for an absolute disaster for TM against these two teams.

You are speaking of teams who will score on you whether you have 3 defenders in front of the goal or 11 defenders. The mentality against these teams should not be a defensive one and wait for counter attacks. With a "Tarsoo" as you put it, mentality, which by the way is not an Iranian/Persian mentality what so ever, it's and Arab mentality, we will be pined in our own half throughout the whole match. We are not Greece; defense has never been our strong suite. If TM with it's current defensive posture gets scored on by Jordan, Qatar, QPR, Macedonia C, Bosnia, Japan, and Korea, etc. what makes you think that we'll be able to withstand 90 minutes of on slot from Portugal and Mexico and come out on top??

Na azizam, we have to go at these teams, the only way that TM would be able to come out of these games with a little hope but most of all respect is by have an offensive game plan of our own against these two. They will no doubt expect TM to sit back and defend for long periods of time, but to attack them as we did the Yugoslavians, U.S., and the Germans in 98 and not so long ago the Koreans at the 04 Asian cup is our only hope for survival to the next round. As I've mentioned before, our mentality in these two matches should be that we are already down by at least one goal. Also if per chance we do end up scoring first in these matches, we should not be content to sit back and defend which we have done in the past and have ended up relinquishing our advantage.

I'm not saying that we should forgo all defensive duties. I'm saying that we should not compromise and forgo all offensive duties in hopes for a 0 - 0 tie, or just depend on counter attacks. Mexico and Portugal score on Brazil, England, Germany and so on, and you actually suggest that if we sit back and defend we can stop them from scoring. Reality is a good thing man.

to which Persepolis replied as follows;

Quote:
"Tarsoo" is what DD calls Branko's tactics (i do not call it that), in fact
Branko's 4231 system and ALL its variations are ALL offensive formations.
Where in my post did I ever mention defense and defending by 11 players?!
I said effective offense in opportune time. have you watched boxing?

I than replied to DD's post accordingly;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor DOOM
let me put you all to another question:
which is more important to you ?
1- TM
or
2- Branko ???

ARYA:
Bravo, that's the best way to put it!!

Unfortunately to some individuals, if one criticizes Branko it means that we do not have faith or believe in our own abilities. On the contrary it is my faith in our own abilities, which I happen to think is 100 fold more capable than what we've shown under Branko, which drives me. I could also very easily say that you yourself by accepting TM's lackluster performances are doing a great disservice to the team, I could say that you have come to accept mediocrity.

I then made an observation based upon a few individuals’ responses;

Funny how TM means Branko and Branko means TM for some people. With such logic we should all be content with the state of affairs of all teams. Why not than say Parvin means PP and PP means Parvin. By your reasoning, if I want to support TM I have no choice but to also support Branko. Therefore if I want to support PP I have to also support Parvin, and yes, I know that Hahn is now the PP coach, I wonder why that is?? Cause according to your analogy we should automatically support the coach regardless of how we feel he is performing. You view this as rude and disrespectful.

I also don't want Daie as a starter, but Daie is in the starting lineup, so Daie is TM and TM is Daie, so I better just be happy that I even have a TM to support regardless of it's current state of affairs and keep my mouth shut because some are completely honky dory with things as they are. Hummm, so this is what it means to have freedom of self-expression.

to which you replied accordingly;

ARYA jaan, why are you mixing things up? What is this has to do with freedom of expression? You don't wanna support TM, don't. Tell me please, how you came to this conclusion. Nobody stops you to write as you just did.

Even the issue of Persepolis vs Team Melli are totally 2 different matters. "Not supporting" Persepolis is NOT a national matter, but TM is. Support is support, TM or Persepolis.
You guys talk about logic, then help me with this ARYA jaan:

How in the world you are gonna get a coach for TM NOW? Are you saying we need another coach but are concerned about the timing? Persepolis signed one of the better-known Dutch coaches in a matter of a month, so there is time. Also it has been obvious that TM is in need of a new coach for almost a year this is nothing that came up within the past few weeks. If you think a new coach will cause too many changes, which will not benefit TM, than that's just your opinion and I disagree. A new coach will definitely use Kia, Karimi, Hashemian, Rezaie, Nekunam, and maybe Zandi in the starting 11 and may just try new players in some other posts, which he deems are needed. With 4 months still left to the WC we will not be worse off than we are now and certainly not in a worst off than we were in 1998 when the TM coach was released a month before the big event. And how in the world this "super coavich" is gonna have time to work with the players? In the same manner that any respectable coach who wants to represent a national team at the WC and have a positive impact would, by holding many training camps, watch IPL matches, trying out new players, formations and tactics in the remaining months.

Didn't I write about this 6 month ago? There was no time then, how are you gonna find time NOW? I've also written about this over the past several months, and not having enough time is just your personal opinion therefore it is not fact but just your point of view.

These legioners are the heart and soul of OUR team. Without them, Iran wouldn't even be where she is now. You wanna tell me, Iran can go to face these WC teams without Karimi? Without Kia? Without Hashemian? Without Rezaii? Do you really see replacement for them? Not sure where in my posts you've ever seen me say that we should replace our legioners. IF NOT, then how in the world you are gonna find free time to gather them to practice with new coach, new system, and new plan. After all you are pushing for changes ....
How much time can you realistically put together for these players to practice together under new system and along with "less-experienced" "less-professional" IPL players? Ahha, now we are getting somewhere. Of all the TM players, our legioners are the ones who require the least amount of practice alongside one another and the rest of the teams members. This is one of the areas in which Branko has time and again shown inflexible, ignoring new talents over the past four years. By fielding the main 11 in inconsequential and friendly matches where TM could have benefited from testing the bench and ohh so many other deserving footballers from the IPL, which would render them valuable international experience and builds confidence. Of the original squad which Branko put together when he took the helm over four years ago, I see only a couple of changes over these years. Some say that he is trying to build a team similar to that of a club, but what most fail to see is that even clubs buy and sell new players each year, change formations and tactics just about every year not to mention coaches.
I never closed my eyes on Branko's shortcomings. I wrote about it way before many of you were jumping up and down ..... Check the dates back to even before Bahrain and Qatar games. And even recently. Nobody is perfect and he is no exception to the rule(and I am sure he knows that too). But I am staying "realistic" about this. This hypothesis that some of you have been pushing does NOT hold water. Too much holes in it. Just closing your eyes and say the hell let's change let's change doesn't work! This is football, not wrestling. Team sport needs time to synchronize under new system. What synchronization, there is currently no cohesion or synchronization within the team anyway, so what will happen if we try someone new, a new coach might actually be able to build cohesion within the team and find the appropriate solution for our trouble areas, which according to Branko by the way are nonexistant. New "super coavich" CAN NOT implement his system one month before WC. Yes sir, that is all the time he realistically will have..... along with possibly playing 2 friendlies that may get cancelled any minute! ...
Wrong, if we act fast he will have at the least 3 months, in which he can view the remaining IPL matches and view tapes, schedule a few camps here and there and try new players, formations, and tactics as mentioned before, and a month before the big event itself the legioners will join camp in Germany, and as many here say a month is plenty of time for a team to build cohesion with the legioners.

Persepolis had this to say;

a coach needs at least 2 years to implement his ideas in the team. if we really did not want branko, then we should not have extended contract with him after the AC 04. we knew him well by then and could judge him by Asian Games and Asian Cup performances. but, we gave him a firm contract.

i doubt very much that branko will stay after the world cup no matter how iran will perform. we really have no other option for the world cup. in fact, we have not had any option for at least 1.5 years when wc qualifications started. did ANYONE say that branko should leave, then?! NO. They started saying that immediately after we qualified! Opportunism?!

Branko owns TM coz Branko has built this team almost from stcratch! TM is playing his system in the past 3 years or so. this cannot be undone in a couple of months.

DD expressed his personal point of view of my love for my national team;

whooaa whooaaa whooaaa , buddy.

first of all arya jan is one of those ppl who TRUELY CARES about the team ( as compared to those who put x or y before the team, and then attempt to cloud things by attaching x or y to the entity of TM .... rather futilely. altho' I see it works on some teenagers and naive ppl ).

he does not support branko.

how difficult is that to understand?

you, mansoor jan, may try to attach branko to TM.
fine.
you do that.

but dont expect everyone else to do so too.

some of us want BETTER things for TM.

in fact when faced with such regress and low output from the team, we care so much ( much more than others ) that we demand changes to strengthen the team.

so ,in fact , we are even more staunch supporters of TM, becoz we are not sacrificing it for the sake of our likes and idols .

I suggest ppl think before they lable others of not supporting the team

to which you had the following reply;

whooaa whooaaa whooaaa , buddy.

first of all I am one of those ppl who TRUELY CARES about the team ( as compared to those who put x or y before the team, and then attempt to cloud things .... rather futiely. altho' I see it works on some teenagers and naive ppl ).

I support TM not x or y. Branko is NOT my pesar khaleh.

how difficult is that to understand?

you, peyman jaan, may try to attack branko AND TM.
fine.
you do that.

but dont expect everyone else to do so too.

some of us want BETTER things for TM.

we care so much ( much more than others ) that we demand changes to strenghten the team not to weaken the team.

so ,in fact , we are even more staunch supporters of TM, becoz we are not sacrificing it for the sake of our EGO and HATE.

I suggest ppl think before they lable others of not supporting the team

I than replied to yours accordingly;

I see no one on this board attacking TM, but to you suggesting that TM can do better than Branko is the same thing, which brings us to the question "Which came first, the chicken or the egg? or in our case Branko or TM." I don't know about you but for me its TM.

By the way, what changes have you suggested or better yet "demanded" in order to better TM, I'm just curious I guess? By the way talking about answering ones questions, I didn't get a reply to mine either!!

So I guess by one suggesting that we can do better for a coach of TM, it means we want to weaken it and all for the sake of our own Ego and Hate???

This is what I mean by having freedom of self-expression, to have an opinion of ones own, and mine in this case happens to be different than yours, and is based on my own observations of the recent events surrounding the TM camp. My opinion is we can do much better, and before you go berserk, I'm not placing any blame on the Team itself but only the person who is running it, contrary to what you believe these are two different things.

So you know, I realize that you have an opinion of your own and I respect you for being so devoted to your cause. We are not here to try and impose our opinions and points of views on one another, we are merely here to voice them.

Voicing ones opinion or point of view should not be misconstrued as destructive. You suggest that what we TM supporters suggest is destructive, and I put it to you that what you TM supporters are not doing is far more destructive.

Persepolis had the following to say to my reply;

only true IF we claim that we are the TM coach or part of the technical oversight committee but we are not either and god knows whether any of us has enough knowledge/experience and qualified to express an expert opinion on this matter.

what we have here is not expression of opinion. we have done that 100 times over. This is more propaganda and Haal Giri of Branko resulting in the destruction of Iranian unity and god forbid may be problems at TM camp.

I just hope people rethink what they are doing and change their ways so that we can do what we are supposed to do as fans and support our TM in the world cup.

To which I replied;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persepolis
only true IF we claim that we are the TM coach or part of the technical oversight committee but we are not either and god knows whether any of us has enough knowledge/experience and qualified to express an expert opinion on this matter.

ARYA:
One does not have to be a part of the technical committee to see with ones own two eyes how the team is performing on the pitch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Persepolis
what we have here is not expression of opinion. we have done that 100 times over. This is more propaganda and Haal Giri of Branko resulting in the destruction of Iranian unity and god forbid may be problems at TM camp.

ARYA:
To you what I say is propaganda, to me what you say is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Persepolis
I just hope people rethink what they are doing and change their ways so that we can do what we are supposed to do as fans and support our TM in the world cup.

ARYA:
I also hope people rethink things and realize what they should be doing as fans to support TM in the proper manner.

And don't you worry about it, I'll be cheering my team on no different than I did in 1977 come game time.

You had the following additional comment;

It is funny that both Dr Doom and Arya "intentionally" skipped the main issues I brought up, ignored the questions asked, and diverted the talk to non issues. It may work for some I guess ..... not for me ..... It is so sad to see people still insist on changes in such a short time to satisfy their ego OVER team melli .... just because they said so ..... sad but true ....

To which I replied;

What questions have I "intentionally" skipped? Ask and you shall receive an honest opinion.

By the way it seems to me that you still don't grasp the whole idea of freedom of opinion, speech, and self-expression.

And finally your closing statements and the thread accordingly;

LOL, no wonder. If you can't even read and follow the posts, specially the one particularly directed at you, then I guess that explains everything .... I was complaining about questions not being answered and I get "what questions" ..... "ey baba", never mind .... so much for grasping and not grasping ....

[Doctor DOOM]

hehehe

nice job arya jan.


--------

btw, mansoor khan,

reading through the above posts, I am reminded by the rather cheap way you tried to twist things ( as usual ) :
"...you, peyman jaan, may try to attack branko AND TM."

"and TM" ?


dont worry.
I am not so much angry, as I am amused at how time and again many friends twist others' words to make their case !!

it's cool, buddy.
the skies will not fall down.

I get over it. so will you and others.

but I must applaud the cheek to twist things in such manner that when the usual teenagers read these posts, behave the way that they do.




cheers to all
and all hail TM ...... and TM only. ( no branko or x or y attached )

[ARYA]

DD jan,

I also saw the results of your pole and none other than a single reply is the most shocking not to mention quite disturbing!!

[Mansoor]

Dear ARYA,

I am puzzled here reading your respond. Did you challenge me to show what I meant when I talked about insult, or did you wanted to continue the discussion of another thread? How did all these posts and responses to others came into this? You wanted to know what was it that lead to closing of the thread and you questioned my "mannersim" which I took plenty of time to explain.

I went through your post again AND again and I didn't see any respond to what I explained. In particular, the fact that you "laughed AT us "or considered it "maskhareh" just because as you say it "Just because some may not agree with your points of view, it does not give you the right to disrespect others" (and I hope it was a syntax error that you put that "you view this rude" in red at the end of the paraghraph and not at the end of that particular sentence of concern).

Are we changing direction here? Should I assume that my response to your concern about "who didn't have manner" was sufficient and accepted. Don't get me wrong, I'll be more than happy to respond to those "other" issues raised (again) but I first need to know what happened to your challenge here. Thank you.

p.s DD jaan, nice try. We will resume soon despite the fact that "dishab dar rafti" and yet to respond back. Check my last post in that thread and let me know

[ARYA]

Dear ARYA,
I am puzzled here reading your respond. Did you challenge me to show what I meant when I talked about insult, or did you wanted to continue the discussion of another thread? How did all these posts and responses to others came into this? You wanted to know what was it that lead to closing of the thread and you questioned my "mannersim" which I took plenty of time to explain.
I went through your post again AND again and I didn't see any respond to what I explained. In particular, the fact that you "laughed AT us "or considered it "maskhareh" just because as you say it "Just because some may not agree with your points of view, it does not give you the right to disrespect others" (and I hope it was a syntax error that you put that "you view this rude" in red at the end of the paraghraph and not at the end of that particular sentence of concern).
Are we changing direction here? Should I assume that my response to your concern about "who didn't have manner" was sufficient and accepted. Don't get me wrong, I'll be more than happy to respond to those "other" issues raised (again) but I first need to know what happened to your challenge here. Thank you.
p.s DD jaan, nice try. We will resume soon despite the fact that "dishab dar rafti" and yet to respond back. Check my last post in that thread and let me know

football-dooste aziz, you tell me that I have a rude tone, but did you read through any of your own replies, which I've posted for you!!

As mentioned in my reply, I merely put everything I had written in the specific post along with yours and everyone else's replies for everyone to see and judge for themselves who was indeed disrespecting whom!! I think people can judge for themselves.

You refer to one of my statements, not in it's entirety I might add, which reads "Funny how TM means Branko and Branko means TM for some people. With such logic we should all be content with the state of affairs of all teams." Insinuating that by this I'm trying to ridicule (maskhare) you or others. Perhaps it's by choice that you refuse to point out the rest of this statement. It simply states that it is illogical to assume such a thing. Also in such a sentence "funny" refers to "point of interest" and is not meant as maskhare someone, I guess if one tries hard enough they can find what they are looking for, and in this case incorporating your own interpretation of my word and rendering it a fact. So please stop putting words in my mouth, which by the way I have to say you are very good at. Completely ignoring all of the other points, which I brought up in my post.

You insinuate that I do not wish to support TM??? How did you reach this conclusion??

You insinuate, that I don't want Kia, Karimi, Hash, etc. for TM??? Where did you get this from??

By the way, within my reply I'm sure you've noticed my honest answers to your initial questions.

[Doctor DOOM]

uh uh .... agh mansoor.

I have replied many times and have got none in return.
even replied to most IRRELEVENT issues like the karimi one.

I expect at least you and ala jan read a couple pages down and answer some of my Q's before even expecting anything from me.

[ARYA]

Before we go any further and in the interest of self clarification, to all of those who misinterpreted my meaning as football-doost has with regard to my comment about "Funny", my meaning by the word in this sentence is "It’s interesting", there was no pun intended.

Funny (interesting) how TM means Branko and Branko means TM for some people. With such logic we should all be content with the state of affairs of all teams.

How is that football-doost, is this better?? Now will you answer my questions and kindly explain how you came to the conclusion that I do not wish to support TM or that I don't want Kia, Karimi, Hash, etc. for TM from any of my posts??

[Mansoor]

Ok, I suppose I got my answer. You earlier questioned the fact that out of nowhere I became rude, and you challenged me to show it. I did. Now, who thinks what is rude and what is not, is not a subject to reach anywhere as it is all relevant to background and different perspectives. All those other posts that you are referring to are afterfacts, and took place afterward. I showed you where it all began and I leave it there, as my attempt to respond to your challenge was basically to show there was no "imagination" involved in this dispute.

However, you took plenty of time to respond to "other" matters which some how you believe it is related to your initial challenge. As I said before, I'll be more than happy to respond. To respond efficiently, I am gonna number each respond corresponding to the order of remarks that you put in red.

1."Tell me please, how you came to this conclusion."
I didn't. I sometimes write how I talk. In conversation, you can omit the word "if" that is missing in the beginning of that sentence. DD forced that interpretation with sarcasm and lots of wooohoo hooohooo so I didn't take it seriously to clarify to him. Instead, I responded with his own words to return the favor.

Depending on how you tone that sentence, it is meant to say: If you don't wanna support TM, don't BUT don't mix this up with "freedom of expression".

NEVERTHELESS, I am beginning to doubt those that have turned their back to the team's coach have also turned their back to the team as their lack of support is effecting the team's performance. Please don't capitalize on this last sentence as I am planning to have a fresh discussion on this soon and I prefer to have detailed discussion later.

2."Support is support, TM or Persepolis."
Not correct. As I said, one is a national matter and one is not(in local league). If certain group of fans don't support TM (so that they can force their agenda such as change of coaching staff), the NATIONAL team will be the victim and suffer in INTERNATIONAL stage. If certain group of fans don't support a club such as Perspolis so that Parvin would leave, a domestic club in local competition "may" lose which is NOT a national matter. Perspolis for two seasons can have a losing season and still would not be of relevant to national matter.

3."Are you saying we need another coach but are concerned about the timing?" Nop. I am not saying we "NEED" another coach but I am very concerned about the timing for any changes. Branko is not THE coach in the world, and obviously there are some out there with "super" record to be qualified as "supercoavich". He knows it, I know it, and I hope everybody else does. However, he has done GREAT with Iran and no matter how some try to manipulate that, it is a fact written in the book. I rather stay with reality and possibly work out the problems than rely on hypothesis and take chances on someone which may or may not work. That is me, as I said few months ago, and that reality vs hypothesis is the clear line between the two groups. Some, do not believe on what I believe and rather to daydream about a hypothesis. All this aside, as I said, that topic has already lost it's value and the time has become a determining factor, which brings me to your next remark.

4. All your remarks about the time factor.

I am sorry ARYA jaan, but I can not even connect to you in this one. We are so far off on this subject that I don't know how to begin. No, I didn't say you implied we shouldn't use legioners but first I covered the basis that we must use them and said "how can we not". Then, I brought up the time factor which is very relevant to their existance. No, we don't have 4 month of preparation left. We have 4 month left to WC. The "practical time" remaining is one more friendly, which is 2-3 days of full team practice and certainly Branko will be there, then, after that there will be one month left to have the legioners full time as they will not return till end of their club season. If you believe that is enough time to prepare a team like Iran with it's cultural complexity in football (along with it's huge gap between the class of it's legioners and IPL players) for a world class competition, I am sorry dear, there is nothing to talk about. We are very far in understanding what it takes to prepare a team, and certainly I am not implying I am the one with upper hand. We are just too far apart on this which clearly explains why you still believe in changes.

Cheers.

[ARYA]

Ok, I suppose I got my answer. You earlier questioned the fact that out of nowhere I became rude, and you challenged me to show it. I did.

Yes, you did misinterpret me.

Now, who thinks what is rude and what is not, is not a subject to reach anywhere as it is all relevant to background and different perspectives.

I see, so now it's all about different perspectives.

All those other posts that you are referring to are afterfacts, and took place afterward. I showed you where it all began and I leave it there, as my attempt to respond to your challenge was basically to show there was no "imagination" involved in this dispute.

You mean after you misinterpreted my meaning.

However, you took plenty of time to respond to "other" matters which some how you believe it is related to your initial challenge. As I said before, I'll be more than happy to respond.

When did you say before that you'll be happy to respond?

To respond efficiently, I am gonna number each respond corresponding to the order of remarks that you put in red.
1."Tell me please, how you came to this conclusion."
I didn't. I sometimes write how I talk. In conversation, you can omit the word "if" that is missing in the beginning of that sentence. DD forced that interpretation with sarcasm and lots of wooohoo hooohooo so I didn't take it seriously to clarify to him. Instead, I responded with his own words to return the favor.
Depending on how you tone that sentence, it is meant to say: If you don't wanna support TM, don't BUT don't mix this up with "freedom of expression".

oh, okay!! Actually your reply was directed at me and not DD.

NEVERTHELESS, I am beginning to doubt those that have turned their back to the team's coach have also turned their back to the team as their lack of support is affecting the team's performance. Please don't capitalize on this last sentence as I am planning to have a fresh discussion on this soon and I prefer to have detailed discussion later.

How can you insinuate that people such as myself by not supporting the coach have turned our back to TM and then ask that I do not reply to this. This is outlandish. If you wish to expand on this subject in a separate thread I'll be obliged to also reply, but don't say that I have turned my back to the team and expect that I sit oddly by and wait for you to expand on this at your leisure.

2."Support is support, TM or Persepolis."
Not correct. As I said, one is a national matter and one is not(in local league). If certain group of fans don't support TM (so that they can force their agenda such as change of coaching staff), the NATIONAL team will be the victim and suffer in INTERNATIONAL stage. If certain group of fans don't support a club such as Perspolis so that Parvin would leave, a domestic club in local competition "may" lose which is NOT a national matter. Perspolis for two seasons can have a losing season and still would not be of relevant to national matter.

What are you talking about. I support TM no differently than I support Persepolis, you talk nation vs. domestic as if we are talking politics. This argument is completely irrational and without basis.

3."Are you saying we need another coach but are concerned about the timing?" Nop. I am not saying we "NEED" another coach but I am very concerned about the timing for any changes. Branko is not THE coach in the world, and obviously there are some out there with "super" record to be qualified as "supercoavich". He knows it, I know it, and I hope everybody else does. However, he has done GREAT with Iran and no matter how some try to manipulate that, it is a fact written in the book. I rather stay with reality and possibly work out the problems than rely on hypothesis and take chances on someone which may or may not work. That is me, as I said few months ago, and that reality vs hypothesis is the clear line between the two groups. Some, do not believe on what I believe and rather to daydream about a hypothesis. All this aside, as I said, that topic has already lost it's value and the time has become a determining factor, which brings me to your next remark.

I disagree, he did what he could and as of approximately a year ago he ran out of ideas. Also how do you propose we work out the problems, when the coach whom you so highly regard is under the assumption that there is no problems. So to what reality are you referring.

4. All your remarks about the time factor.
I am sorry ARYA jaan, but I can not even connect to you in this one. We are so far off on this subject that I don't know how to begin. No, I didn't say you implied we shouldn't use legioners but first I covered the basis that we must use them and said "how can we not". Then, I brought up the time factor which is very relevant to their existance. No, we don't have 4 month of preparation left. We have 4 month left to WC. The "practical time" remaining is one more friendly, which is 2-3 days of full team practice and certainly Branko will be there, then, after that there will be one month left to have the legioners full time as they will not return till end of their club season. If you believe that is enough time to prepare a team like Iran with it's cultural complexity in football (along with it's huge gap between the class of it's legioners and IPL players) for a world class competition, I am sorry dear, there is nothing to talk about. We are very far in understanding what it takes to prepare a team, and certainly I am not implying I am the one with upper hand. We are just too far apart on this which clearly explains why you still believe in changes.
Cheers.

I'll say it yet again, 3 months is enough time for any respectable hard working coach to view the remaining IPL matches as well as tapes, select players which he would like to try and to schedule several camps to test out the different options all of this without the legioners. The legioners can then join in at the month long camp in Germany. God forbid we try such a thing and find some cohesion within TM and solutions for our trouble areas. Yes, it appears that we do not see eye to eye on many levels.