Editorial: We don't need new forwards.

[zzgloo]

Bahram jan....Let's look at your argument about the urgency of a Forward in a different angle....

What good is the likes of daei , if he is not given the balls , either from the midfield or defenders? Ali Daei would not have scored so much goals if he did not have the support of other players.

Isn't Hashemian currently the best forward in TM ? How many goals he scored recently after Daei left? NOT MANY...that does not necessarily mean he is a weak finisher , you need to dig deeper and find that the support is not up to the standard.....

I still think football is not a one man show ( or two..).and find that using the system as scapegoat , makes me wonder how the Africans can excel with a social environment and economical conditions much worse than Iran ???

I have no problem with your assesment, and it is very correct....indeed, the lack of forwards is not the reason TM is not scoreing........( in fact,in that VOA program last week,when they talked about Mohajerani's opinion,.Asghar sharafi, said the same thing you just said, which football should not be dependent to just one man,.

How ever,TM can be looked at from different angles...as yours is one.....
one angle is its coaching, one is chemistry, etc,etc.....
the angle I mentioned, which it seems Mr.hashmat Mohajerani agrees also...is the " Mohreha " or pieces....in another words, once,all things are at work, and coaching is doing the job,etc,etc........we do not have the " Mohreh " at the forward.....

No, finisher, No one to count on at the forward to finish the good Pass !,even when we get that fixed., let alone a finisher who may do things only on his own account.
This situation of lack of " Mohreh " is not as seriouse at the defense, or midfield ,or Goal keeping !...........thats all I am saying.

[maij]

Bahram jan....Let's look at your argument about the urgency of a Forward in a different angle....

What good is the likes of daei , if he is not given the balls , either from the midfield or defenders? Ali Daei would not have scored so much goals if he did not have the support of other players.

Isn't Hashemian currently the best forward in TM ? How many goals he scored recently after Daei left? NOT MANY...that does not necessarily mean he is a weak finisher , you need to dig deeper and find that the support is not up to the standard.....

I still think football is not a one man show ( or two..).and find that using the system as scapegoat , makes me wonder how the Africans can excel with a social environment and economical conditions much worse than Iran ???

[zzgloo]

Today.......feb,13,08....the VOA news ( with asghar sharafi )said, that in an interview, Heshmad mohajerani,has said, the TM has improved in Goal-keeping and defense....but the major need is at forward, and lack of replacement for Ali-Daie !!!

[zzgloo]

I think, respectfully, that you are mistaken in two of your assumptions:
You seem content to accept that our team is destined to create minimal scoring opportunities. You also seem content to consequently revert to our traditional way of relying on one or two stars to hide this deficiency(Daei, Azizi, Karimi and Hashemian...their stars have no faded and there are no immediate replacements).
Why should we create little opportunities? It doesn't have to be this way. My first post in this thread discusses what can be done.

You are right, I am assumeing so............
You and I are looking at this issue with two different glasses.........and there is nothing wrong with that..............
It appears to me, you are suggesting ( let me know, if I read you wrong ), we need to work on the foundemental of our football, first., and only then we finish the details !!
I ,on the other hand, suggest, we are not , that good anyway, and as Clements recently said in the spanish newspaper, our football is too slow. we also have huge internal maneging problems, as well as , confusion in Identity.
...................................
The countries, such as , Iran, saudis,and Iraq,etc....who keep chamgeing forign coaches from different styles of football, have no identity,and need to rely on individual talents rather than class of football.
................................
working on foundementals is good, but poeple want results, and they want it now !!............
It would take decades for our football to have speed of European football.
It would take decades for our football to be proffesional.
It would take decades for our football ,to get the right manegement.
It may take decades to get rid off, Islamic republic.
It would take decades for our football to have the minimal inferstucture.
.....................
for now, likes of," malek ", the center forward, for the saudis, and Ali daei of last decade, make a big difference !

[RaginG Inferno]

We scored two Goals during the last WC....
Both by our defensive players !
we are a team that can not afford to waist the little opportunities our offense creates....specialy against better team.
when it comes to play against good teams, our offensive players have no punch.

I think, respectfully, that you are mistaken in two of your assumptions:

You seem content to accept that our team is destined to create minimal scoring opportunities. You also seem content to consequently revert to our traditional way of relying on one or two stars to hide this deficiency(Daei, Azizi, Karimi and Hashemian...their stars have no faded and there are no immediate replacements).

Why should we create little opportunities? It doesn't have to be this way. My first post in this thread discusses what can be done.

[zzgloo]

We scored two Goals during the last WC....
Both by our defensive players !
we are a team that can not afford to waist the little opportunities our offense creates....specialy against better team.
when it comes to play against good teams, our offensive players have no punch.

[RaginG Inferno]

Definition of a team , is a group of players and any team that depends on one or two players , where their absence will adversely affect the performance or results , cannot be considered as a serious contender for championship.

Fabulous post. It is precisely for this reason, that we should not wildly exclaim "we need new forwards and everything will be fixed!". In fact, even if Dejagah plays for Iran up front, it will be a band-aid solution to the obvious problem: We are not creating scoring chances. A guy like Dejagah, Azizi or Daei can hide this problem with their lethal finishing.

Instead of hiding the problem, let's fix the system whereby we are in desperate need of an Ali Daei to save our team. Let's hire a coach that will establish a system of possession football, above all else.

[Doctor DOOM]

I absolutely agree on the lack of physical conditioning in iranian players in general.

I also agree with the need for a center forward, but that means we have to have 2 forwards line ups that allow for a center forward who holds the ball, feeds his partner or gets fed.
but unfortunately the crappy 4-2-3-1 formation seems to have set in !! I curse the day we were forced to adopt this sh*tty formation with absolutely no idea that our players do not fit into it ! I curse the idiot who brought it also.

[zzgloo]

We got so many intelegent posts on this thread...and they are the proof, this issue,is indeed dynamic........
here are some questions :

1-Is our mid-field functional ?
2-Are our forwards sub-par ?
3-Are the offensive coaching strategies at work ?


1-....

A= Kia is at the end of his football life,and has lost step.
B= karimi may have had nothing more than some nice dribles, and have recently lost that too, due to confusion of mixed coachings.
C= There are only few midfiled players who have nice touches to feed the offensive line....such as Navidkia,and Ando,and neko,or Kia, as other midfielders may be better in defensive duties,or individual skills,such as karimi,Madanchi,or Nikbakht..............
there are no inside,off-side trap beating passes....
there are no smooth flowing connection between defense and offense.
There are no, intelegent set kicks, or crosses, that are curved and go up fast, and then come down fast at the opponants 6 meter box.

2-.....

A= the Goal hashemian maid against korea last year,and tiped the ball over the korean Goalie....could have only been done by hashemian,,,,as we have no one,in our forwars, to have such combination of : killer instinct, fighting spirit, fast immidiate reflection, soft touch, and composure and psycological balance to handle it..............
all other forwards we have seem to not have all those qualities all at once. at skills alone may not be sufficient for that position.
There is no center forward to play as distributing point in the middle of the opponants defense.
There is no forward with good heading skills.
There is no forward with nice finishing touches, and missed fires are far too many,while we do have scoreing chances.


3-.......
Some believed all Branko had, was a set of two or three set sheems, mostly done through Kia,and kabei, to advance to the ball and create scoring opportunities...and nothing more...............yet, we can see, How ,even a two to three sheems ,can change the offense, let alone, Intire offensive strategies, which is designed based on the opponants gaps analysis, or streangth of our own offense...

[maij]

It is no good talking about the bygones , when Hashemian did this or Daei did that..... A team has to work within its present capabilities and resources.

Definition of a team , is a group of players and any team that depends on one or two players , where their absence will adversely affect the performance or results , cannot be considered as a serious contender for championship.

On the subject matter , I say , of course we need high quality striker(s) and would add one word to that... Consistency. I careless if Hashemian scored a goal a few moons ago against Korea , or Azizi against Australia. I need Hashemian and his mates to frequently repeat their scoring feats else he is just a figure that completes the 11 players.

on the subject of the midfield , which I personally think , is a serious problem despite the riches of talents and skills in Team Melli , it is either the game-plan by the coaches which is ineffective , or the inability of the players to apply themselves in the match. Whatever the reasons , it has created the present situation of goal drought.

we must not forget the "Route 1" , the good old English classical way of football. Balls deep from inside the defense directly to forwards or wingers.

All such plans require certain qualities that TM sees to be lacking at the moment.

[RaginG Inferno]

on possession football.
being a barca fan I must admit my love for a nice string of passing between players from all parts of the pitch. and I have always longed to see such play in TM.
but as pretty possession football seems, it needs the most basic criteria of all sports: running and movement.
without enough running and movement, there can be no possession football.
the players have to constantly find spaces and move into them, thus availing their mates of an option to pass to.
stationary football loses the ball immediately, becoz the opponent can charge you, mark you and dispossess you easily.

in recent TM's we dont have enough movement almost everywhere! be it forward line, midfield or defense.
I can think of very few ppl who actually keep moving and finding spaces. kia may be one. VH sometimes does that. I've seen enayati do that. kaabi uses his quick feet to do that. but that's it. I cant recount anyone else doing so.

madanchi isnt intelligent enough to do so, despite his pace!
karimi is way too lazy to be bothered with such trivial things !
ando uses his quick feet for interception and disruption of opponents more than freeing himself for mates.
niki ? do we have to talk about him?
nekunam? not sure but I dont think he's as nimble as he shd be but he has had on and off days.

these are more or less the usual suspects for a TM line up in a game.

in fact this lack of movement is why sometimes players seem to be taking time to decide ... whereas they are actually trying to see who frees himself and dont find many runners or ppl moving into spaces. hence the delays in passing, and labels of "being slow decision makers" !

This is true, however there is a root cause for this. Ando commented that in Iran, the level of physical conditioning is low. Running and movement is only possible in a team of athletes in peak fitness.

Also, I must disagree with your example of Nekounam. Sure, he doesn't sprint all over the park, but he has the sixth sense of soccer or 'football intelligence'. He knows when to run, when to stay, when to go forward, when to support. He can read the game quite effortlessly. Although, he is seemingly casual in his approach, this is an illusion. He is the master of positioning. If you have any doubts, just read his statistics for Osasuna, where, in almost every game, he makes the most successful, unintercepted passes in the team. He is a very busy player on the field, but he does not unnecessarily waste energy.

[RaginG Inferno]

Mansoor jaan............
If the lack of scoreing is not because of forwards.......does that mean we have the right forwards ?
The issue,in this thread is not finding out why we did not score......., we had lack of scoreing even in the asian games... as mostly ,we counted on center-defense to come and head the balls,on set kicks....or midfield to help out......
we saw,even in Asian games, how lonely hashemian was....as if he was looking for help.
" Inshaallah " when we get a coach, and when we have some strategies for the offense, and working midfield...we will realize, why Branko,insisted to keep Daei !,even a non-fouctional Daei......
he used to say, he and Hashemian is the best Iran has......and we the fan used to say, no we have lots of talents....................so, a year or so later.....who is it we have ? specialy to play as center forward ?
who do we have, to pair with Hashemian ?..............
this period of finding a partner for Hashemian has taken so long, that hashemian himself, is getting so old !
And if we are to play without hashemian, which is very soon ?..........
You do not think we need forwards ?, specialy center forward ?................
I do not agree with daei at all, if he is to say we are fine at the forward position.

Hashemian is a decent forward, and Enayati is not a bad striker. The same goes for Samereh, Khatibi etc. People don't simply forget how to score when they play for Team Melli. Is it not a coincidence, that every forward we test recently cannot score? They are professional players, I don't believe they simply choke. One or two, maybe. But every single one? Without exception? I don't think so.

In fact, the disorganization of the national team's tactics and formation is what creates this drought. It's not a lack of quality, but a fundamental problem with the national team. I have identified this problem in my editorial.

Bar Iran vs Malaysia, Iran's forwards barely missed any goal scoring opportunities throughout the Asian Cup. Watching Iran - Korea (AC2007) demonstrated that our forwards simply are not being given the opportunities to score.

I don't think anyone here would argue that Hashemian, Enayati and Samereh are incapable of scoring against Syria. They are individually better than any player in the Syrian squad and have demonstrated so in their club football. Sure, none are at the level of Raul or Drogba, but even they would find it difficult to score with the lack of scoring opportunities provided by their teammates. In fact, Ali Daei commented to 'futbol mundial' that the reason he was able to score so many goals should not solely be credited to him, but his teammates who gave him such opportunities to score. Would Ali Daei racked up so many goals without the magician Azizi behind him(Remember Iran v South Korea 6 -2)? Without Bagheri? Absolutely not.

Our current line-up of forwards are more than enough to do the job. But, as with any job, the prerequisites need to be fulfilled before the job can be done properly. This is where the employment of a competent coach is beneficial.

[zzgloo]

Mansoor jaan............
If the lack of scoreing is not because of forwards.......does that mean we have the right forwards ?
The issue,in this thread is not finding out why we did not score......., we had lack of scoreing even in the asian games... as mostly ,we counted on center-defense to come and head the balls,on set kicks....or midfield to help out......
we saw,even in Asian games, how lonely hashemian was....as if he was looking for help.
" Inshaallah " when we get a coach, and when we have some strategies for the offense, and working midfield...we will realize, why Branko,insisted to keep Daei !,even a non-fouctional Daei......
he used to say, he and Hashemian is the best Iran has......and we the fan used to say, no we have lots of talents....................so, a year or so later.....who is it we have ? specialy to play as center forward ?
who do we have, to pair with Hashemian ?..............
this period of finding a partner for Hashemian has taken so long, that hashemian himself, is getting so old !
And if we are to play without hashemian, which is very soon ?..........
You do not think we need forwards ?, specialy center forward ?................
I do not agree with daei at all, if he is to say we are fine at the forward position.

[Doctor DOOM]

http://www2.irna.ir/fa/news/view/men...7630103641.htm

thanks mansoor jan.

( a bit off topic but related to daei's piece:
first, I'm very proud of him being a part of such a committee.
hmmm... I wonder "who" brought up the issue of time wasting. )

But he speaks the truth that the main problem is we dont CREATE situations for the forwards ( and other players ) to score.
and the most apparent explanation is the absence of a PLAY MAKER in the team.

[Mansoor]

http://www2.irna.ir/fa/news/view/menu-154/8611197630103641.htm