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    the Puzzel of our loss !,what did realy happened?

    OK,................ we lost......we even accept the loss, and congradulate the South Koreans, as they played well,and hope they can win it all.

    But,lets for the sake of analysis, and learning....lets examine,what realy happened !, and which part of our team, did not function good enough, to beat a south Korean team, who was without,5 of thier best experinced legioners ,and was lacking in talent and experince....something, the Dutch coach of Koreans admited before the game.

    To begine with, we did not play so badly, and our TM actualy had better chances, and deserved more to win....yet, it was obviouse, we did not have attack in mind.

    Some observations from the game.:


    1-TM played very little in the center, as our midfield,played more defensively.

    2-Madanchi had been given a defensive duties.

    3- rezaie on left back, and Nosrati and hossaini, and Kia, plus, defensive midfield, had created a solid defense.

    4-Our offense, was fed very little .

    5-Khatibi and co, were off-side for 19 times.

    6- Koreans could not succeed in attacks, because of our superior defense, yet,their midfield connected with thier offense, better than ours did with our offense.

    7- Our midfield, to be true to thier defensive duties, was content to pass the ball to the offensive line, from a distant, and rearly,possesed the ball in the Korean's side of the field.

    8- Our defense and midfield always had koreans in front of them and never,allowed them to pass.

    9-Koreans' game plan started with attcking our left side,as well as controling our right side attack, while their players were told to challenge TM players on one to one battles, and not to give space to TM players.

    .................................................. ..................

    One conclusion may be : that, GN , in general, was exteremly conservative, and always played in the hands of opponants, as we recieved first and even secound goals,from chinease,and the uzbacks,and always reacting to the plan of the opponants.........as well as , over stimateing the korean's streangth, and over stucking our defense.....and only,during the last 20 minutes of the game, thought of winning the game.
    Our players,although,fit, never had the team work, and never played at thier optimal potencials, as if they did not believe in what they were doing.....
    In short, TM was under-utilized,and was never allowed to improvise.there was too much conservative coaching getting in thier way.

    #2
    The main thing that happened was that GN did not use Kaabi and Mobali. What a pity.
    sigpic

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footbal...he_Asian_Games

    Comment


      #3
      I think it was a mistake starting Nosrati at CB. He made a few deadly mistakes. Especially where he mis-headed the ball in the 2nd half and the ball landed right in front of a S.Korean player who had a shot on goal which Roodbarian saved.

      Comment


        #4
        It is football and games can be won and lost even if you team is the better or worse team. Specially in Penalthy shoot out.

        But I think GN in general didn't seem to be able to deal with the mediocer performance of Stars. It is not an easy question to solve but him being the coach he should have found an answer.

        He showed a bit of courage by benching karimin in China game but it was too little too late.
        "When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
        Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)



        Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
        Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
        sigpic

        Comment


          #5
          What is our system anyway ??!!

          WE saw how impresive japan played in this turnement, with european style ,short passing ball control, and predesigned crosses, and verything...
          We also saw, The south Korean's european style,which was pretty effective against our team, and soudi's.....
          we also saw, saudi's South american style, which they have consistanly played for the last 15 years, which very much has been set, and definds saudi's style....................
          BUT, what the bloody !, is OUR system ?
          What was it before ?
          What was it with GN ?
          What will be in future ?
          and more importantly, what should it be ?
          may be, this had most to do, with what realy happened with us, in asian championship.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
            We also saw, The south Korean's european style,which was pretty effective against our team, and soudi's.....
            .
            I only saw one game from Japan vs. Australia and both teams were just PURE CRAP. No soccer not to mention Joga Bonita was played in that one game.


            But I am totally surprised by your comment about South Korean played European style aginst us. South Korean were defending with 11 man the only thing they had was fast couter attacks. Count how many times Roudbarian has to make saves.
            He had to dive only once and in big part it was due to ball being low and wet and he had a hard time to stop it. Korea had nothing against us atleast from what I remember.

            Iran's system in Korea (offensive side) was based on three things.
            One long balls behind the Korean defense and using Khatibi's speed. This was effective at the begining, but Korean soon realized what is going on and their defense pulled back and took that space behind them away. That is the main reason we didn't see anythign from Khatibi after 40th minutes.

            2- Peneterating from wings and either cross the ball or pass back for added midfielders to shoot toward the goal. Our team failed miserably in doing this. In part because one of the guys who was supposed to do that on right Teymoorian isn't this type of player. He doesn't have the talent to beat its marker. He will shine in defensive duties or slowing the other team's attack. Madanchi was supposed to do the same on left. But when Korean's retreated in their half with 11 players behind the ball, all the space was taken. This is where our team failed and game came to an standstill.

            Karimi's peneteration and lateral passes or crosses. He did three or four of those. And everytime it created a log of danger the most important one was square pass to Nekoonam and his shot was wide only by a meter in overtime.
            "When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
            Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)



            Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
            Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
            sigpic

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ali Chicago View Post
              I only saw one game from Japan vs. Australia and both teams were just PURE CRAP. No soccer not to mention Joga Bonita was played in that one game.
              But I am totally surprised by your comment about South Korean played European style aginst us. South Korean were defending with 11 man the only thing they had was fast couter attacks. Count how many times Roudbarian has to make saves.
              He had to dive only once and in big part it was due to ball being low and wet and he had a hard time to stop it. Korea had nothing against us atleast from what I remember.
              Iran's system in Korea (offensive side) was based on three things.
              One long balls behind the Korean defense and using Khatibi's speed. This was effective at the begining, but Korean soon realized what is going on and their defense pulled back and took that space behind them away. That is the main reason we didn't see anythign from Khatibi after 40th minutes.
              2- Peneterating from wings and either cross the ball or pass back for added midfielders to shoot toward the goal. Our team failed miserably in doing this. In part because one of the guys who was supposed to do that on right Teymoorian isn't this type of player. He doesn't have the talent to beat its marker. He will shine in defensive duties or slowing the other team's attack. Madanchi was supposed to do the same on left. But when Korean's retreated in their half with 11 players behind the ball, all the space was taken. This is where our team failed and game came to an standstill.
              Karimi's peneteration and lateral passes or crosses. He did three or four of those. And everytime it created a log of danger the most important one was square pass to Nekoonam and his shot was wide only by a meter in overtime.
              Ali jaan, you misunderstood my post.....
              Korean's style of play was indeed European , specialy haveing had european coaches for thier last 12 years..........And yes, It was effective,against us...how els,did you think they stoped a more talented team ?
              As far as japan....I recommand you see all thier games,if you could.....they realy were head and shoulder above all other teams,as far as effeiciency and style, if it was possible to look for, I bet they had the most time of possesion among all teams., .......they are the best in Asia, and closest to true european style.
              But, the point of my post, was not who played better or worse, ..it was, " What doctorin of football our country follows ? "......it seems, the saudi's and the koreans and the Japaneas have made thier mind.....but what about us ?

              Comment


                #8
                in short:
                what distinguished GN from branko, which was his guts and daring to trust in player forms rather than names, let us down in this game !

                he reverted to "names-based" selection and strategy. he also suddenly got scared of the koreans ( where are those analysts and their analysis that shd have told him this korea is NOT that strong ???!! ) and changed the 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 !

                in other words, he lost his guts when he came to the knock-out stage !
                such a tragedy !

                Comment


                  #9
                  Iran-B coach recently said in an interview that in the future we need to use the more motivated (hungry) players rather than the players with big names.

                  This pretty much sums up what happened to Iran in this tournament. Iran-B would have played the final in the Asian Cup (same line up that won WAAF.)
                  sigpic

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footbal...he_Asian_Games

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
                    Ali jaan, you misunderstood my post.....
                    Korean's style of play was indeed European , specialy haveing had european coaches for thier last 12 years..........And yes, It was effective,against us...how els,did you think they stoped a more talented team ?
                    As far as japan....I recommand you see all thier games,if you could.....they realy were head and shoulder above all other teams,as far as effeiciency and style, if it was possible to look for, I bet they had the most time of possesion among all teams., .......they are the best in Asia, and closest to true european style.
                    But, the point of my post, was not who played better or worse, ..it was, " What doctorin of football our country follows ? "......it seems, the saudi's and the koreans and the Japaneas have made thier mind.....but what about us ?
                    I still totally disagree with your assertion of they played European? What does playing European means in the first place? German style, English style, Nordic Style, Espanish style?
                    I think by Eropean you mean organzied or purposeful. And I still disgaree. Putting 11 players behind the ball and hoping for counter attack when you have fast players isn't better or more organzied or purposeful football. And that is exactly what Koreans' did. They were reacting to us the whole game. They had no plans.

                    First they were concentrating on our left, because they thought that is where Zandi will be. GN changed system to 3-5-2 and Rezai Madanchi did a great job of shutting them down on that side. Then when it saw they can't go from there. They sat and waited. Lee chum soo number 10 (maybe I mispelled his name) then came to their left (our right) and waited to take advantage of the space behind Kia when he was attacking.

                    That is it. This is the whole Korea team for you in nutshell. They brough a taller guy to supposedly go for aerial attack but he only got one or two balls crossed for him. This is the miracle of Verbeek and Ghotbai (the so called Forigner coaches).

                    For your second question I am not sure what do you mean by Doctorine? Every federation wants to be succesful, develop youth soccer, have success with adult national team. So what does this "DOCTERINE" supposed to mean? I am not beign sarcastic, I really don't understand.
                    "When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
                    Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)



                    Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
                    Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
                      in short:
                      what distinguished GN from branko, which was his guts and daring to trust in player forms rather than names, let us down in this game !

                      he reverted to "names-based" selection and strategy. he also suddenly got scared of the koreans ( where are those analysts and their analysis that shd have told him this korea is NOT that strong ???!! ) and changed the 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 !

                      in other words, he lost his guts when he came to the knock-out stage !
                      such a tragedy !
                      Excellent point. And not to defend the guy here, but with the pressure that papers and fans put on him, I can understand why he did that. Not that I agree, but it needs a miracle for any coach who comes after him, to do the same. Imagine if Iran eliminated without playing the legioners, GN would have been shredded to piecees and put in front of the fire squard.
                      He chose the safe way which wasn't the right way. But the guy was between the rock and a hard place.
                      "When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
                      Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)



                      Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
                      Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ali Chicago View Post
                        I still totally disagree with your assertion of they played European? What does playing European means in the first place? German style, English style, Nordic Style, Espanish style?
                        I think by Eropean you mean organzied or purposeful. And I still disgaree. Putting 11 players behind the ball and hoping for counter attack when you have fast players isn't better or more organzied or purposeful football. And that is exactly what Koreans' did. They were reacting to us the whole game. They had no plans.
                        First they were concentrating on our left, because they thought that is where Zandi will be. GN changed system to 3-5-2 and Rezai Madanchi did a great job of shutting them down on that side. Then when it saw they can't go from there. They sat and waited. Lee chum soo number 10 (maybe I mispelled his name) then came to their left (our right) and waited to take advantage of the space behind Kia when he was attacking.
                        That is it. This is the whole Korea team for you in nutshell. They brough a taller guy to supposedly go for aerial attack but he only got one or two balls crossed for him. This is the miracle of Verbeek and Ghotbai (the so called Forigner coaches).
                        For your second question I am not sure what do you mean by Doctorine? Every federation wants to be succesful, develop youth soccer, have success with adult national team. So what does this "DOCTERINE" supposed to mean? I am not beign sarcastic, I really don't understand.
                        GN' s line up was not 3-5-2........It was " 4-4-0-2 " ( ),on first half, and 3-5-0-2 ( if there are such line ups) ,on the secound half.............
                        What I mean, is, our midfield had defensive duties far more than offensive duties.......................we gave up, the the part of the field, from center to thier Box................that was why, our mid, and back kept sending long balls.
                        ..............................
                        European, to me, means, Short passing, fast exchanges,triangular advances,systematic pistons,side crosses, time of possesion,preplaned set ups,space control.etc...............this was how,japan plays, and to lower extend, S.Korea..................but, The saudi's, are more into, individuall battles,fasr running scapes,head on advances,and fluensy of the game......pretty much, south american.......................
                        We also have, east european doctorin, which is a more solid type ,and slower,ball cotrol...................I am sure, you know all these, but, You asked, and I answered, what they mean to me.
                        ...............................................
                        But, through out our history, we have had, brazilian, Coratians, english,etc...all kinds of coaches, and we realy have not had a doctorin, or any stable style of play.................................

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
                          in short:
                          what distinguished GN from branko, which was his guts and daring to trust in player forms rather than names, let us down in this game !

                          he reverted to "names-based" selection and strategy. he also suddenly got scared of the koreans ( where are those analysts and their analysis that shd have told him this korea is NOT that strong ???!! ) and changed the 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 !

                          in other words, he lost his guts when he came to the knock-out stage !
                          such a tragedy !
                          DD jann, you got it..............exactly...............more over, a typical, iranian macho attitude, as if needed his extra smart views, rather than football mind............GN, played a passive chess, as Branko let our individual superiorety do the job,by attacking them, and willingness to battle in any part of the field.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
                            GN' s line up was not 3-5-2........It was " 4-4-0-2 " ( ),on first half, and 3-5-0-2 ( if there are such line ups) ,on the secound half.............
                            What I mean, is, our midfield had defensive duties far more than offensive duties.......................we gave up, the the part of the field, from center to thier Box................that was why, our mid, and back kept sending long balls.
                            ..............................
                            European, to me, means, Short passing, fast exchanges,triangular advances,systematic pistons,side crosses, time of possesion,preplaned set ups,space control.etc...............this was how,japan plays, and to lower extend, S.Korea..................but, The saudi's, are more into, individuall battles,fasr running scapes,head on advances,and fluensy of the game......pretty much, south american.......................
                            We also have, east european doctorin, which is a more solid type ,and slower,ball cotrol...................I am sure, you know all these, but, You asked, and I answered, what they mean to me.
                            ...............................................
                            But, through out our history, we have had, brazilian, Coratians, english,etc...all kinds of coaches, and we realy have not had a doctorin, or any stable style of play.................................
                            Bahram Jaan,

                            You and I or anyone from here, wasn't in the dressing room, so I don't know how u make the claim about coach gave them the defensive duties. I honestly wish you were the coach yourself and would have seen, you tell players one thing, but the game itself has its own dynamics and player's desire, motivation, effort and fitness are determining, if what you said to the players is going to happen in the field. Again this is not an excuse to undermin coache's role here. But coach's decision is only part of this. I am not saying GN didnt' give them defensive duties, maybe he did, maybe didn't , it is just you and I don't know to make an assertion like that.

                            As for your defention of European game, I guess taht is your persoanl defenition of the so called European. Because what you defeind isn't British style at all, or even German. It is more actually South American. Anyhow, that is not the point. I just cut and pasted a short clip from Khabar varzeshi who talks about KSA's team.
                            سرمربى* عربستان* جواب* منتقدان* را داد

                            خوليو دوآنجوس* که* پنج، شش* هفته* قبل* از شروع* جام* ملتهاى* آسيا سرمربى* تيم*ملى* عربستان* شد، روى* چند بازيکن* خاص* و پا به* سن* گذاشته* اين* تيم* قلم* قرمز کشيد.
                            او معتقد بود فوتبال* امروز سرعتى* شده* و بازيکنى* که* نتواند بدود، هرقدر هم* که* اسم* و رسم*دار باشد، فايده* ندارد. آن* موقع* رسانه*هاى* گروهى* عربستان* به* شدت* سرمربى* برزيلى* تيم*ملى* کشور خود را کوبيدند اما خوليو دوآنجوس* گفت: من* جواب* انتقادات* را بعداً* مى*دهم. او ديروز با رهنمون* کردن* عربستان* به* فينال* جام* ملتهاى* آسيا، جواب* منتقدان* خود را داد

                            If you read this, you see it is talking about Speed, team speed not how fast a single player can run. See how their coach according to this artcile didn't bring a lot of marqi players and relied on younger guys who can run and hussle.

                            What you saw as lack of offense in Iran's team IMO was the result of lack of offensive transition in Iran's team which in big part has a lot to do with our midfields do tremendous amount of running with and without the ball. In this tournament our forward line got all the criticisem specially Enayati and Khatibi, but I think our weakest line was our midfield (where we thought it will be our strength).
                            "When I see the good in you, you get motivated, feel good about yourself and that creates synergy. It creates an environment where everybody can work better together. I think in the Iranian culture it becomes very ordinary to always see the bad in each other."
                            Afshin Ghotbi ( Former TM Head Coach)



                            Nasser Hejazi was the Takhti of our football.
                            Mohammad Panjali (Former PP and TM Captain)
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ali jaan.....there is nice debate on voice of America, about IRAN,and its failier in the asian Cup............very interesting with Ali sarshar..........regarding what realy happened in AC,and what is wrong with football in Iran , and its backward movement............
                              http://www.voanews.com/persian/round...TOKEN=79778947
                              Also,listen,if you could, to telephon calls from iran..........as players were not allowed to get out of thier rooms,were supposed to cut thier hair, and thier prize if they win the Cup was,to be taken to mecca,,,etc,etc............

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