Whats going on? Why are we not using our A-team vs Mexico?

[BehzadB]

hey , why not.. how many times did we expect our guest team to show up with fix players and they didn't.. NOW we are doing that...

[Doctor DOOM]

while the name of opponent is very enticing, we must consider many issues;

1- our players come off a long league & are very tired. especially the euro contingent.
if our priority is AC07, which shd be, then having a fresh set of euro players plus our domestic ones, is far more important

2- our domestic hopefuls can gain invaluable experience. even if half of them dont get to play at AC07.

surely none of u want the repeat of branko's mismanagement w/ regards to above 2 issues, for the AC07.



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I agree w/ ali jan. but can I still call u "crazy"?

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btw, I must add this; I'm thankful for the restart of F+ forum, as this thread & its counterpart in football forum;

http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44878

demonstrate why we shd be thankful for F+
Good God !

[Ali Chicago]

I agree w/ ali jan. but can I still call u "crazy"?

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Go for it bro. Har Che az Doost Resad Nekoost.

[zzgloo]

Thanks for your reply ZZ jaan. With all the due respect, I think you got a couple of things not quite right.
On point 2 IFF decides who to play not GN. I beg to differ. The decision on which team to play is with GN. Probably GN or any coach for that matter gives a list of the kind of team they would like to play and ask IFF to faciliate and schedule them.
On point 3, actually Mexico is paying Iran. Iran doesn't pay a dime. All the trip cost is covered too.
On Point 4 and 5, I think, if the team losses bad, regardless of being with team A or B, GN is going to get heat. But he definitly won't get fired regardless of the results (1 month to the AFC, that just won't happen).
I think the difference in point of views (you see it as an alibi by GN to send a B team Vs. mine) comes, because you and lot of other guys in PFDC think IFF and GN are incompatant. So their moves are being considered suspicious. However, I think lot of critics of the GN and IFF aren't realistic. They compare IFF and GN and our soccer for that matter with advanced countries (soccer wise). That is a comparing apples and oranges. Iran simply doesn't have the management, organization, facilities to run its soccer like an advanced country does.
Mansoor in the other thread listed every single legioners and the reason they aren't able to make it. Go through the list in the other thread. GN has no option, he can't order to player to play. If they dont' want to play or can't, he needs to accept it. Soccer isnt' as simple as many fans like us make it. Every player has its own agenda and his benefits maynot be aligned totally with TM. Few players put the national team above their club interest. Ali Dai (despite all my criticisems in other regards) was an example of the players that sacrificed his club for the TM. Specially during the WC 2002 Qualification, that guy traveled so much for TM. Legioners don't want to get injured, loose their spot in the club, or sometimes it is just pure bad luck and mismanagment (Ando is getting married on 14th for example).
Bottom line, I think not playing with our legioners is a good thing for our football. Iranian football has to get off this full reliance on legioners. Lot of people, kept saying GN team will be the same Branko team. I hope that doesn't happen. At least this game and Asian championship be the begining of the end and new faces play in TM.

Ali e Aziz.............
I value our conversation more than ,who is right or who is wrong....
and in respond to your respond, I must say, I may have made a mistake on some issues...and I try not to insist on others......I how ever,like to share my opinion,and try to explain little more what I had in mind, and compair them with your side of story.............
I am under impression that GN, is new to this international relationships,and does not know ,how things work..and more over,IFF was in the proccess of playing with Mexico," BEFORE ", WC...and with the help of PFDC,(I also helped a little ) , every thing had been worked out. yet WC draw came,and the game was forgotten.
IFF, has been in the hunt,and most friendlies,are result of long time work,or close connections....which,I believe, GN knows very little about.I highly doubt that GN had any thing to do with the sellection of Mexico, how ever,he may have had,the power of veto.
And in regards to $200,000 ..I must say, you sound like you have a solid source ( please let me know where you heard that from ),which , I do not,and I only,had heard, $200,000 some where,( which I do not remmember ,now ,where ), plus, I also read on Mexican web site , " EL UNIVERSAL ", that mexico was under criticisem, for playing Iran, while they were supposed to get ready, for playing argentina, and Ecuador,and uruguay....., and my logic, said, Mexico must be stopid to pay Iran !!
Regarding two different pints of view, ( those beliveing in IFF and GN's incompetancies, and those believing in realities at hand ).....I must say, It does not need,as you said ( management ,resources,organization,or facilities ), to be efficient.........it only needs one man, yes, only one man, with an internet,and telephone, to take care of all these !! .....plus, IFF , contrary to wide beliefe, does have a buddget for friendlies.
And with regards, to legioners,and what mansor wrote, I believe, legioners ,in my opinion, do not respect GN,as much as they did Branko,nor GN is as persuasive and convinsing as Branko,..to bring legioners.....which as you also may have noticed, mansor aziz, also was escaptical,as the real motives of the legioners for not participating.
More over, last night, in TV program of MR,ZAHAB....he mentioned, how strange the selection for Mexico game is, and lack of intelegence for such picks,that had no relation with our Asian games...and in his opinion, with nekonan,and nosrati injured, only one or two, of the team ,being sent to mexico, would have any chance to be part of 22 people going to malaysia.
And My bottom line, is, we are 20 years away, from being able to do it without our legioners,and GN, is far too incompetant, neither in coaching , nor in motivation, nor in international affaires.......and more importantly, nor in respect of his players.......
Respectfuly,zz.

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jzn, I think GN is out of his league at the AC games.
this much we agree.

however, I am not sure & doubt the reluctance of the legioners is due to lack of respect.

we MUST .... it's imperative ... understand that the euro players undergo a far more grueling season than IPL. lets not even talk about the leisurely strolls in the park in uae !
so I know for sure these guys NEED a rest.
even those on the bench. coz they dont sit on the bench during training sessions all week. they, too, work.

secondly, it is a case of once bitten, twice shy.
they appeared for more or less all those crappy games branko asked them to, due to his gutless nature & short-sightedness! and when the actual games came, they were so weak that they fell victim to injuries far too easily!
at most in-opportune time!

so they have learned and dont want to make the same mistake again.
believe me, they too, like to win the trophy.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali e Aziz.............
I value our conversation more than ,who is right or who is wrong....

The feeling in mutual. This is a dialouge (so no problem in a serious and respectful discussion. Without the typical apple shinning of a typical Iranians, I really value your input and opinion.

and in respond to your respond, I must say, I may have made a mistake on some issues...and I try not to insist on others......I how ever,like to share my opinion,and try to explain little more what I had in mind, and compair them with your side of story.............

No worries. Even if there was an inacuracy in one of your points, it won't void the whole argument.

I am under impression that GN, is new to this international relationships,and does not know ,how things work..and more over,IFF was in the proccess of playing with Mexico," BEFORE ", WC...and with the help of PFDC,(I also helped a little ) , every thing had been worked out. yet WC draw came,and the game was forgotten.
IFF, has been in the hunt,and most friendlies,are result of long time work,or close connections....which,I believe, GN knows very little about.I highly doubt that GN had any thing to do with the sellection of Mexico, how ever,he may have had,the power of veto.

From mechanics of the how to set up a friendly, you are totally right, it will be IFF and actually from word of mouth, I heard that IFF initially rejected playing with Mexico, since it didnt' fit the schedule GN gave to them. In reality, it seems a company that is involved with soccer set the initial connection up and running and eventually get the IFF and Mexico Federation together (probably for a fee I am sure). In Iranian sport papers they did have a lot of "goosheh Kenayeh" about this so called soccer related company.
Points is, both of us are right since both of us are saying two different things. GN is the one who as a coach should say who will play or not play (assuming it was a typical country) and IFF implements it. With the situation Iran is in, we dont' have many opportunities to play friendlies with good teams anyways. So GN in reality won't have much chance to saying NO.

And in regards to $200,000 ..I must say, you sound like you have a solid source ( please let me know where you heard that from ),which , I do not,and I only,had heard, $200,000 some where,( which I do not remmember ,now ,where ), plus, I also read on Mexican web site , " EL UNIVERSAL ", that mexico was under criticisem, for playing Iran, while they were supposed to get ready, for playing argentina, and Ecuador,and uruguay....., and my logic, said, Mexico must be stopid to pay Iran !!

As for 200K, I didnt' mention that in my post did I? I just heard that number as well and even called Iran to ask my friends but no one could confirm. But that much I am sure, Mexico paid Iran and even paid for traveling cost. Exact amount I don't know.

Regarding two different pints of view, ( those beliveing in IFF and GN's incompetancies, and those believing in realities at hand ).....I must say, It does not need,as you said ( management ,resources,organization,or facilities ), to be efficient.........it only needs one man, yes, only one man, with an internet,and telephone, to take care of all these !! .....plus, IFF , contrary to wide beliefe, does have a buddget for friendlies.

Well, what I was talking was for long term planning. For example, there is a comittee in USSF (United States Soccer Federation), that in contact with US TM coach, arranges for friendlies. They build relationships, get other teams scheuldes, have scheudle of all the other teams, that kind of stuff. In an organization, a work won't be based on a single perosn. That is one of the general problems in Iran. Work is based on a single person. For example until Khooda Beeyamoorz Dehdari was alive, things were all based on him. Dehdari despite all his services to Iranian football wasn't a great manager (not talking about technical, tactical issues), I am talking about management stuff.

You live in the US right? McDonald lost 2 CEOs in less than 2 years, but the company went ahead with no glitch. What was the cause? Because, work is not dependent on a single person. Person still has an impact, but within an organization, if the person is gone, still the organization can contiune. Remember Abedini and Fattollahzadeh got a name in Iranian football partly due to the contacts they had with forign clubs in Germany. Unfortunately these two guys didnt' make their personal connections an organizational connection (maybe because they wanted to make themselves irreplacable who knows). When they left PP and EsEs, all those connections to foriegn clubs didnt' continue.

And with regards, to legioners,and what mansor wrote, I believe, legioners ,in my opinion, do not respect GN,as much as they did Branko,nor GN is as persuasive and convinsing as Branko,..to bring legioners.....which as you also may have noticed, mansor aziz, also was escaptical,as the real motives of the legioners for not participating.

You probably are right, but these are all the complexities of running an organization. This is a problem that all the countries that have legioners are facing with. They come back home with a far less inferior facilities, lack of professional relationship, etc. etc. But this is another challenge countires face by globalization. There is a book about soccer as a face of globalization if you like I can give you the name.

More over, last night, in TV program of MR,ZAHAB....he mentioned, how strange the selection for Mexico game is, and lack of intelegence for such picks,that had no relation with our Asian games...and in his opinion, with nekonan,and nosrati injured, only one or two, of the team ,being sent to mexico, would have any chance to be part of 22 people going to malaysia.
And My bottom line, is, we are 20 years away, from being able to do it without our legioners,and GN, is far too incompetant, neither in coaching , nor in motivation, nor in international affaires.......and more importantly, nor in respect of his players.......
Respectfuly,zz.

I dont' claim to know a lot about soccer (althought played at the competetive level for more than 10 years and coached for another 10 years, but to be honest, in my opinion that Zohab guy doesn't know much about soccer. I think Molkara for example is a much much much knowledgable soccer analyst. Btw there is a huge difference between an analyst and a coach (lot of people dont' realize that). So I won't go by that Zohab guy much.
As for legioners not playing in Mexico, I personally think it is a good sing. Our soccer needs to stand on its own domestic talent. Remeber Kia, Hashemian, Karimi played in Iran too before becoming legioners. Specially if Kia, Karimi, X, Y are starting to Naaz to play for TM. It is a sign we need to show them, football is going on with or without them.
I think and hope at least, Mexico friendly is the begining of a new era (where our TM wont' rely as much as past on legioners). This will herald a new era where Karimi, or Kia have to compete with likes of Shojai, Kazemain and even laught at me but Amir Abadi (if only he could improve his crossings).

Anyhow, thanks for your time, and again I really value this dialoug and not an argument. I hope you get my point. Sorry for the long post.

[zzgloo]

Ali jaan, I read your post, and thanks for takeing time,to explain things....
We are saying almost the same thing and in agreement .....
I share with you, your wish and vision of opening an new era,and hopefuly we will see, new " Padideh " in our new football.
I have nothing further to add in this particular thread.....I shall see you in other ones.

[Ali Chicago]

......

Dada, I dont' go to Iran until these Akhoonds are in power, but if you are going to Iran watch out for . You might get a visit from the Nahy az Monkerat Komiteh.
It was called ( Nahy az Monkerat Komiteh) when i was in Iran, maybe they changed the name.

Good luck.
I am in a wedding on Saturday evening and wont' be able to watch the game live (although I will try to sneak out and find a TV to watch it in Spanish Channel). Talk about bad luck.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I am in a wedding on Saturday evening and wont' be able to watch the game live (although I will try to sneak out and find a TV to watch it in Spanish Channel). Talk about bad luck.

Don't worry I am on a long haul flight (10 hours to Shanghai) and will miss it as well....

at least you are in a better place....



On this thread:
if we would have more friendlies it wouldn't bother me to let the reserve players to get experience; but since that is not the case, I would have expecetd to let the A team play in a higher quality friendly together...

[Ali Chicago]

Don't worry I am on a long haul flight (10 hours to Shanghai) and will miss it as well....
at least you are in a better place....
On this thread:
.

Man they played Blue Grass music, guess you have no idea how annoying that kind of music can be!!! Ok I admit Polks is worst. Anyhow, hope you recovered from your jetlag.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Man they played Blue Grass music, guess you have no idea how annoying that kind of music can be!!! Ok I admit Polks is worst. Anyhow, hope you recovered from your jetlag.

thanks just returned home yesterday evening... and I am used to jet lags, since I travell each month....


I heard the news that we played pathetic but I could not see the game, so cannot really discuss on this topic.
Agar be fale neek begeereem one could say lets hope that creates a positive shock before the competition... lets hope sooo

[Ali Chicago]

thanks just returned home yesterday evening... and I am used to jet lags, since I travell each month....
I heard the news that we played pathetic but I could not see the game, so cannot really discuss on this topic.
Agar be fale neek begeereem one could say lets hope that creates a positive shock before the competition... lets hope sooo

Welcome back agha Adesor. It wasn't as bad as it was portrayed IMHO. But hopefully you can watch it online and judge for yourself. Good to see you back and active, hoefully we get F++ active again with u back.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Welcome back agha Adesor. It wasn't as bad as it was portrayed IMHO. But hopefully you can watch it online and judge for yourself. Good to see you back and active, hoefully we get F++ active again with u back.

thank you! I am trying to see the game online somewhere... but on the other hand a freindly is a mixture of tactic testing, sometimes interesting to watch... let see
lets try to make F+ more active all together I am always hungry for discussions, if my biz trips do not prohibit me too much...