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**Hadi** · 06-20-2006, 08:50 AM

OOOOOOOOOOoooooooAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhh

Koo Ta World Cup Badi!!!

Iran Fardash Hesab Ketab naare to dari 4 sal bado migi?

**Ali Chicago** · 06-20-2006, 09:16 AM

Hadi Jaan

I know it is not cool and sexy right now, but if we want success in 2010 we have to start today. I hate to criticize you (and beleive me it is nothing personal against you), but maybe this attitude of simplyfing things, looking for short term solutions, not realizing, success isn't gained unless we plan and work for a long time, are the root causes of the problems in Iran.

US soccer is improving due to its youth programs. You know how long they have been at it? They have a long term plan and working at it. It started to bear fruits. At least they consistantly make it to the world cup and in each world cup they are doing ok (to say the least).

**Hadi** · 06-20-2006, 11:43 AM

I agree with you, I just meant these things arent meant for Iran and Iranian management.

**Hajagha** · 06-20-2006, 12:46 PM

He said nothing. Only "Korea had program.", so what? What program? how? where? when? As it's fashion in Iran they say, the guy did "fara-afkani".

We are in the right track, we improved, we should stick to our league and try to improve it. When our players are not devastated to have a "ashi" contract from any team from any where, we are succeeded.

Oh, we need a vatani coach for our national team, let's have the best coaches in the world for our league, the national team will be more successful with an Iranian. He (future coach) may lose, but his experience will stay with us, after all he is Iranian. I say between :Ghalenooi, Jalai, Kazemi or Zolfagharnasab, Team Melli should be rotated to see which one is better. Later on we can add Daei too if he proved himself in the league.

This is the way, we will have a successful football. Pay our coaches good money and ask them to improve themselves. Believe in ourselves in every department.

**Ali Chicago** · 06-20-2006, 01:09 PM

Hajii Jaan

What the guys said was long term planning. I am playing with a Korean guy and through him kind of follow the Korean team. Korean team was on a tour for like 3-4 months. They played in Auckland, LA (against Mexico), etc. They played more than like 10-15 friendlies. Maybe part of the coheisievness that we see today is the result fo this tour and playing being together and playing games.
Besides these large nubmer of friendlies gave the coach a good chance to see each player during the game.

But even more importantly it is the matter of long term planning. For the long tour to happen I bet you Korean soccer federation must have planned for it 2 years ago. It is probably true that Iran didn't get friendlies because of the Atomic thing, but I bet part of the problem was the fact that IFF didn't plan ahead of time. Long term planning Hajji Joon.
Why are you going far Haji, in IPL they don't publish the league game dates for the whole season. Baba Perspolice still hasn't played Hazfi Final!!!!!!!

Long term planning. I know it sounds like a Cliche, but even my little crappy youth coachign we have a calender for league, try outs, summer camp, indoor blah blah blah.

I don't want to turn this to organizational problems. But lack of rule of law, lack of organization and favoritisem and you scratch my back I scratch yours needs to be removed or at least somewhat controlled in IFF before we create an atmosphere for our soccer to grow. How is that in Germany, Khan is benched but he doesn't complain (kudos to his professionalisem), but he knows that even if he does, the whole Germany Soccer Federation and even people won't accept it. Organization will remove the root of tribalisem that currently rules in our football.
Look at Esteghlal even, PoorHeydari is kind of has his own gang. Hejazi and Fatoolah Zadeh theirs, Ghaleh Nooey and Ghareeb another. Perspolice the same.

**Hajagha** · 06-20-2006, 01:35 PM

Ali jan,

See these news and have a conclusion for me please:

1, S. Korea tied to Maldives,

2, S.Korean fan in LA rented the best arena and gathered 20,000 in there to cheer up for their team.

3, No matter Korea plays, at least half of the stadium becomes RED.

4, Soccer is not even Korea's first sport.

5, Iran can't get a friendly game bcz of politics.

6, Karimi gets more vote than Ronadiniho but Mexican fans are 10 to 1 in Germany where at least we have 100 Iranians for every Mexicans.

...

Saying "long term program" sounds nice. Acting like that is so confusing.

Cheers

**Ali Chicago** · 06-20-2006, 03:56 PM

Haji Mokhleseem

Originally posted by Hajagha

Ali jan,
See these news and have a conclusion for me please:
1, S. Korea tied to Maldives,
2, S.Korean fan in LA rented the best arena and gathered 20,000 in there to cheer up for their team.
3, No matter Korea plays, at least half of the stadium becomes RED.
4, Soccer is not even Korea's first sport.
5, Iran can't get a friendly game bcz of politics.
6, Karimi gets more vote than Ronadiniho but Mexican fans are 10 to 1 in Germany where at least we have 100 Iranians for every Mexicans.
...
Saying "long term program" sounds nice. Acting like that is so confusing.
Cheers

Dada,

Morghe hamsayeh is always Ghaaz. I thought I read somewhere you coach yourself too, so please talk to Latinos or even Koreans and see they have the same squabling among themselves as well.

I am sure most of this can be explained. Korean and most East Asaian for that matter are well off and heck of a lot easier to organize. Critical thinking (for good or bad among them is not as prelevent as among Iranians).

Plus, when TM played in Rose ball a lot of Iranian went and watched the game.
As for Mexican more than Iranian, I am sure a lot of other Latinos were cheering for mexico as well.

Tv doesn't show Iran spectators. I read that there were more iranians than Portugees but ESPN2 didn't show any shot of Iranians or maybe I missed it. So a lot of Iranians went and cheered. I agree with your conclusion that there must have been more Iranian in general but even that is a sign of long term planning.
I bet you a lot of Iranians didn't plan ahead and then at the last minutes they wanted to do something and they could not get tickets.
Part of this lack of long term planning and even lack of punctuality which is very prevelant among Iranian who live in North America goes back that Iranian society was going through a transition from a semi agriculture society to a more middle class (city dwelling) society.
My kid in America if he doesn't go to the bus stop by 8:05 he will miss the school bus. Bus also comes with -/+2 minutes. So from early days he learn he needs to be on time. Where we grew up it wasn't like that.

I was in Seoul on 1998-1999 for work, you should see these damn guys. They have Bennigen and TGIF and all the American chain resturant (due to a large number of American soilders who are stationed there). Their service was a heck of lot better than Bennigan and other American chain resturant even in US. Food was hot, fast, served with a smile. These guys are a work horse. I don't know how they got this work ethic, but that is really good in them.

Sorry for the segway, I agree with you that it is easy to say long term planning but hard to implement in Iran. But i contend it is hard because we are not grown up with this culture of planning. Either we learn and change or in long term we still won't be very far.

For friendlies I still beleive we didn't get friendlies in part because of politics and in part because IFF hasn't planned in advance. There is no calender in IFF. If no calender how can they plan?
Also, I think we Iranian tend to exaggerate about our number in each country as well. I lived in Canada (ottawa) and Iranian claimed there were between 5000 to 20000 Iranian back in early 90s live in Ottawa.
When there was a cencus in Canada it didnt' support that nubmer. Even couple of years ago during the US censuc the number of Iranins was 1/10 to 1/15 of what Iranian society claims. US census was a bit skewed but still the number of Iranian even in Southern Cal is less than what our peopel claim. I think it is probably the same in Germany ( I take a leap there ), and that in part kind of explains the poor showing of Iranian fans in Germany.

The bulk of Iranians who live in Iran don't have the money or can't get the Visa to come to Germany, so most of the Iranian fans must come of Iranian expats (a base of 1-2 million in best estimate) on the other hand latinos these days are all over the world. I bet you some of those so called Mexican fans were just Latinos and not neccesarily from Mexico.

And lastely, most of Iranians I know are kind of economical (they won't spend at least 5 k (from US) to go to Germany and they watch the god damn thing from TV. There is like 100 something million Mexicans and lot of other latinos, so hence the differential in number of fans.

**yashar_fasihnia** · 06-21-2006, 12:34 AM

ali jan, even though this seems a good solution, its not complete or to put it in ur words, "it doesnt include all the ingredients in ur formula"

for sure, management and IFF play a huge role in our football, but as long as we continue with the same political situation, economic situation, cultural situation (if it doesnt worsen!), we wont reach where we deserve.

if a team like korea and japan had the talents we have, they could have easily reach semi finals in the worldcup.

the reason they developed is not only because of good planning and management but also good economic, political and cultural status of the nation.

its the people of a country who decide on the fate of the country (upto a large extent, ofcourse external forces and luck shouldnt be ignored) in watever department it is.

for us to reach where we deserve ,not only in football or sports but in terms of economy and international status,(and believe me when i say we can be the best in almost anything in the world! yet doctor doom accuses me of having low standards

) we need a whole new revolution and no, im not talking about a change in regime, im talking about a RENAISSANCE! a majority of wat we have achieved in anything whether it is sports like football/taekwando/weightlifting/wrestling/futsal, education like olympiads/NASA recruits, business companies like google and ebay is majorly because of our own individuals heart,talent,dedication,intelligence. but ofcourse, this can only happen to serveral hundreds people or even thousands in a country with a population of 70million! inorder for the whole country to become like this, we require a total shift of mentality culture wise, economic wise and political wise.

we have everything a country could want, we have resources, we have the youth, we have the weather & tourist attraction sites, we have the scientific knowledge, we have the heart, the intelligence, the dedication... we have everything, u name it and we have it, YET its china/japan/korea who are becoming world super powers and are snatching all the gold medals of the olympics! and we are the ones in the state of jealousy and envy!
feel the irony??

**Hajagha** · 06-21-2006, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Ali Chicago

Dada,

Plus, when TM played in Rose ball a lot of Iranian went and watched the game.

The difference is, "Korea was not playing there when 20,000 gathered together."

Korean team was in Germany and 20,000 in LA, Imagine how many were in Seol.

The rest of the post proved my point that we can't copy Korean's prescription for ourselves, we are different people. As I said, I came to the conclusion that we need an Iranian coach with this situation around Iran and I stick with that.

Cheers

**Amirza** · 06-21-2006, 06:38 AM

A country ruled by it's idiots - will never mount to anything - even in football !!

Now that the WC is over - can we just concentrate on getting rid of our biggest problem first ???

**Persian Prince** · 06-21-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Amirza

A country ruled by it's idiots - will never mount to anything - even in football !!
Now that the WC is over - can we just concentrate on getting rid of our biggest problem first ???

I wish that was possible but I read recently that Ahmadenijad has a 70% approval rating in Iran at the moment. That figure has also been accepted by Western politicians and analysts. When you compare that to others such as George Bush who has a 32% approval rating and Tony Blair who has a 33% approval rating, it shows how much support he has. Its most likely he'll be voted back into office in 2009.

Don't forget there may be a lot of Iranians who live outside of the IR who want regime change, and even a lot of Iranians in Iran who want regime change, but you have to accept that an equal or even greater number support the Islamic Republic. "Our biggest problem" as you put it, will not be gotten rid of soon unless there's another revolution, which would have to be very bloody. Otherwise its going to take another 30 to 50 years until Iran evolves into a modern, free, secular society. The immediate future looks dark for Iran both politically and socially, and with Team Melli.

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