Differences between USA and TM?

[Scooter]

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that TM didn't care at all, I'm saying that there is probably less incentive to win if the proper resources aren't there. If the government shows a lack of regard, then what's the reward for winning? National pride can only take someone's efforts so far.


But fine, whatever. You wanna talk about endurance, you talk about endurance. I wasn't talking about endurance, and that's why my post seems off-topic. From reading what other people had written, I had assumed that it was more open-ended than that, but you have now made it clear to me that it is not. There you go, you win. I apparently misread the thread and I apologize.

Edit: "So why Iran? Iran may not have nearly the facilities that the USA boasts, but surely some of the fault has to fall upon the will of the players who are clearly out of shape/lazy (two traits that are connected)."

That was what YOU said in post 12. So how is being lazy and out of shape different from not caring? There is an obvious overlap between the two problems.

[Makan]

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that TM didn't care at all, I'm saying that there is probably less incentive to win if the proper resources aren't there. If the government shows a lack of regard, then what's the reward for winning? National pride can only take someone's efforts so far.


But fine, whatever. You wanna talk about endurance, you talk about endurance. I wasn't talking about endurance, and that's why my post seems off-topic. From reading what other people had written, I had assumed that it was more open-ended than that, but you have now made it clear to me that it is not. There you go, you win. I apparently misread the thread and I apologize.

Edit: "So why Iran? Iran may not have nearly the facilities that the USA boasts, but surely some of the fault has to fall upon the will of the players who are clearly out of shape/lazy (two traits that are connected)."

That was what YOU said in post 12. So how is being lazy and out of shape different from not caring? There is an obvious overlap between the two problems.

[Scooter]

It's not completely on the government, but the government does play a rather prominent role in it. When a government doesn't give its national sports teams the proper resources, and essentially shows a general disregard for the team, then where is the incentive for the team to succeed? These guys make their money playing on their league teams, anyway.

How is this even logical?

Re-read what you said above. So.. if the government doesn't care for it's national team (by giving it proper resources), then that means the individual players who are called up shouldn't care? That doesn't make one bit of sense to me. Mexico doesn't exactly have the best financial support from their government, but their national team members still succeed with passion. They still arrive to camp in good physical shape. So I don't agree with your premise, which implies that players don't care because the government doesn't care.

By the way, when a government doesn't provide proper supplements, proper practice fields, and is ready to ban anyone and everyone that shows the slightest disdain toward them, then yes, that is a recipe for a crappy national team. But I guess that's just ridiculous and "isn't an excuse".

Yep, you said it. It IS an excuse.

My original question concerned why our players aren't in decent shape. Specifically with regards to endurance.

People can try to paint around the question all they want, but "supplements" and "practice fields" aren't necessary to build endurance. Good old-fashioned wind-sprints and running are required, along with a bevy of other exercises that would build/maintain sprint explosiveness and cardiovascular endurance during a game.

C'mon.. it's not like these are "top secret". Anyone with access to the internet could find out how to do this! I seriously doubt that the I.R., as despicable as they are, block fitness websites.

Edit: And not once did I mention endurance... so I don't know what you mean by what my post has to do with endurance. That was not one of the things that I brought up to note the differences.

But hey, that was part of my original post..you know me.. the one that started this thread. I've said as much OVER and OVER, but it gets ignored with inane drivel concerning not having proper supplements and facilities.

The freaking Ghanans, Costa Ricans, Ivorians, just to name a few, don't have good facilities or proper support from the government, but they are generally teams that have excellent endurance and speed.

I can especially attest to the crap facilites that many South/Central American countries posess, because it's obvious from watching on T.V.. Some of them have pitches so terrible (for World Cup Qualifiers!) that the ball takes a small bounce over a dirt patch every half second.

Oh and one more thing, your 40 year old example is the definition of a strawman. Yeah, maybe if those parents were still playing an active role in that 40 year old's life, THEN that would be a good example, but they're not. There's a huge difference between parents that stop interfering with your life after some time, and a FRIGGIN GOVERNMENT that plays an active role in what you do at all times!

Exactly, it's as much of a straw man as the baloney some of you feed on concerning why our players are not in decent shape for international competition.

We're not talking ball-skills, tactics, coaching, bench press, squat etc... we're talking about having enough wind to finish off a game from say.. minutes 65-90, against a great team.

So please, stick to that topic.

Unless government officials are actively holding TM players at gunpoint and forcing twinkies, kabob, and lard down their throats, and then shackling them to couches for hours on end, I don't want to hear any nonsense about how the goverment is keeping players from being in game shape.

[The]

They learn the basics of the game from a young age: Passing, Vision, Team work, positioning.

[KC McElroy]

With all the adventages they have over us, they also have better players...
seems pretty easy to say why USA is better than TM

I disagree. You can coach tactics, but not natural ability and individual creativity.

[Babak agha]

With all the adventages they have over us, they also have better players...
seems pretty easy to say why USA is better than TM

[Super Shojaei]

When you have a country of 300,000,000 people, it doesn't matter how unpopular a sport is, there are still going to be a considerable amount of talented players that you are going to have.
That, along with the fact that Iran has one of the more incompetent governments of the world, are the main reasons why there is such a large disparity between the success of the U.S. and the success of Iran (football wise).

nah thats unture, india have 1 billion people and suck ass at football.

[Super Shojaei]

its not diet i can assure you that its government

[Makan]

Ok. You are saying what others here have said, but failed to elaborate.
Respectfully, will you please explain what the government has to do with players getting into/keeping in peak physical shape, especially with respect to endurance?
I just don't get that aspect of it.. to make an analogy, it's like some 40 year-old guy, complaining about losing his job due to too much tardiness, because his parents never taught him about the importance of being "on time" to everything. While there may be a connection, that 40 year-old should have learned on his own, since it's obvious behavior that one must adopt in the working world.
Similarly, players on TM who are out of shape have mostly had some international experience and KNOW the level at which better teams play. They know the pace is sometimes furious, and that one of the most basic aspects of competing at such a level is to be in top physical shape. These players can't play the blame game and say:
"Well it's the government's fault for not providing us with the proper supplements, decent practice fields and an state-of-the-art running track, so we are not to blame and won't put in the time with what we have."
That's so ridiculous. It's not an excuse.

It's not completely on the government, but the government does play a rather prominent role in it. When a government doesn't give its national sports teams the proper resources, and essentially shows a general disregard for the team, then where is the incentive for the team to succeed? These guys make their money playing on their league teams, anyway.

By the way, when a government doesn't provide proper supplements, proper practice fields, and is ready to ban anyone and everyone that shows the slightest disdain toward them, then yes, that is a recipe for a crappy national team. But I guess that's just ridiculous and "isn't an excuse".

Edit: And not once did I mention endurance... so I don't know what you mean by what my post has to do with endurance. That was not one of the things that I brought up to note the differences.

Oh and one more thing, your 40 year old example is the definition of a strawman. Yeah, maybe if those parents were still playing an active role in that 40 year old's life, THEN that would be a good example, but they're not. There's a huge difference between parents that stop interfering with your life after some time, and a FRIGGIN GOVERNMENT that plays an active role in what you do at all times!

[Scooter]

When you have a country of 300,000,000 people, it doesn't matter how unpopular a sport is, there are still going to be a considerable amount of talented players that you are going to have.
That, along with the fact that Iran has one of the more incompetent governments of the world, are the main reasons why there is such a large disparity between the success of the U.S. and the success of Iran (football wise).

Ok. You are saying what others here have said, but failed to elaborate.

Respectfully, will you please explain what the government has to do with players getting into/keeping in peak physical shape, especially with respect to endurance?

I just don't get that aspect of it.. to make an analogy, it's like some 40 year-old guy, complaining about losing his job due to too much tardiness, because his parents never taught him about the importance of being "on time" to everything. While there may be a connection, that 40 year-old should have learned on his own, since it's obvious behavior that one must adopt in the working world.

Similarly, players on TM who are out of shape have mostly had some international experience and KNOW the level at which better teams play. They know the pace is sometimes furious, and that one of the most basic aspects of competing at such a level is to be in top physical shape. These players can't play the blame game and say:

"Well it's the government's fault for not providing us with the proper supplements, decent practice fields and an state-of-the-art running track, so we are not to blame and won't put in the time with what we have."

That's so ridiculous. It's not an excuse.

[Makan]

When you have a country of 300,000,000 people, it doesn't matter how unpopular a sport is, there are still going to be a considerable amount of talented players that you are going to have.
That, along with the fact that Iran has one of the more incompetent governments of the world, are the main reasons why there is such a large disparity between the success of the U.S. and the success of Iran (football wise).

[EKBATAN]

2 THINGS; gov't and gheyrat


the root of it is our clown gov't

[Barandeye2006]

Lol.. dude.. that's not a good explanation.
Anyone can build up conditioning to run for a full game, barring some terrible physically debilitating condition.
For example, Argentina, which has, as far as I can tell, no "African" players, is conditioned so well that they can run most teams off of the pitch.
Conversely, The Jamaican team, which has many players that are of African decent, have some of the worse conditioning I have seen on a national team, despite being "athletic".
And..lol.. speaking French(?!) has nothing to do with conditioning, which is at the point of my query.
So once again, when it comes to conditioning, there have to be other tangible reasons why many TM members have poor endurance.
Edit: One more thing.. Costa Rica is NOT AN AFRICAN TEAM! Lol...

agreed, players that have soccer ability need to have a vested interest in conditioinign themselves for hours daily, whether or not the government or training provides it

[Scooter]

its IRS fault man

The Internal Revenue Service is responsible for keeping the conditioning of TM poor?

I KNEW IT! Those meddlesome bums screw up everything!

[persiangodfather]

its IRS fault man