Who's your daddy??? Thats right baby! Its..

[persianbruin]

So it must be a coincidence that 3 different NBA teams reached the NBA finals, and 2 of them won it with a common denominator by the name of Shaquille O'Neal. Don't forget he lead Orlando to the NBA finals in his 2nd season, won several championships with the Lakers, and immediately won another one with Miami.
Ironically, Dwayne Wade's NBA success since that title, without Shaq next to his side is eerily resemblant of what Kobe went through since the departure of Shaq. Maybe thats a coincidence too?
Raminio: If you have to mention Damon Jones as a "key" role player for Lebron, you know you're really short on material. How many All-Stars does Lebron have next to him to take the pressure off?
Kobe is playing with 2 All-Star talents in Pau and Odom. Both of those guys would easily be the 2nd best player on Cleveland by a mile. And if you want to talk about 4th quarter dominance, I think Lebron scoring 32 of his team's final 34 points against a tough defense like the Detroit Pistons says a lot more than a player deciding to shoot 50 times in a regular season game against poor teams to pad his stats.
Kobe is not the only NBA player capable of scoring 80 in a game. But he's the only NBA player with the freedom, and to an extent the selfishness, to shoot over 50 times in an NBA basketball game.

Read what I said before, that is exactly wat I am saying!!

1) with the exception of his rookie year, shaq has ALWAYS played with a dominant guard.

2) Shaq was the most dominant player in the game till 99-00. When he finally won the championship he lost that desire evident by the lakers record in the regular season in 00-01 and 01-02. If there was an award for "playoff MVP" kobe woulda easily won it 2 years in a row, but whenthe lakers got to the finals against a defenseless eastern team shaq would take over and win the MVP of the finals.

3) If shaq had 10% of the work eithic of kobe he woulda won 10 MVPs cuz he was THAT good. Dont get me wrong, shaq was awsome he just didnt try hard enough.

4) The lakers after their loss to the kings on christmas day 2002 had a record of 11-19 WITH shaq!!!! again it took a string of Kobe 40 + point games for them to get back in it, after the playoff loss to the spurs the lakers realized with the supporting cast aging they need new blood and they got payton and malone. If it wasnt for malone there would be no way in hell the lakers could beat the timberwolves(garnett) and spurs(duncan). malone went down with injury in the finals and we sa how the pistons took advantage of that.

5)shaq's first year with the heat was probably his second best year ever because he wanted to prove something, but they still couldnt make it cuz D wade was no kobe and still isnt and will never be.

6) shaq gets a paycut the heat get james posey, jayson williams and antoin walker(several time allstar) His "backup" center is alanzo mourning!!! and he has the experienced hall of famer gary payton along with dwade and all the other young blood. Once the heat won the championship what happened??? The following year with pretty much the same team they dont even win a playoff game let alone a series!!!!!!!!! How often does that happen?

7) shaq's team is in the bottom of theconference and he is saved by gettin traded!!!! Kobe with all of those no namers and in the much tougher western conference never came even close the bottom of the conference

To me the 45 wins 2 years ago was waay waay more impressive than their 57 tally this year. If you can drag smush parker, kwame brown and brian cook to the playoffs and only one rebound shy of eliminating phoenix you are good!! REALLY GOOD!!

One last note, remember nobody was willing to give their super star for shaq in 04. The odom/butler/grant was the best offer on the table. Some people are lucky al the time and shaq is one of them!!

[Babak]

Dude I expect this from uneducated people but not from you!!!! The lakers didnt just lost shaq. They lost everyone!!
Dont forget the lakers WITH shaq in 02-03 had a losing record deep into january. It took a string of 9 straight 40 point games from kobe t get the into playoff positioning. People's excuse backj then was that kobe could score because of shaq, now we all know its so untrue!!!!!
The lakers got back into the mix because of karl malone and gary payton not shaq. shaq was old and washed up. Kobe wanted him to lose weight and buss wanted him to get a paycut so the lakers cold add more player for another run at the championship. He said NO!! so what did he do? He went to the heat, lost 35 pounds and got a huge paycut!!!!!!!
If anything, his success was a result of what kobe and buss wanted him to do which makes them right all along!! This is actually when I truly realized how little common sense the avg american has!!
There was an article couple years ago that showed how big the contribution of the 3 players the heat got as a result of the paycut by shaq were in the playoffs. If hae had done that with LA, kobe wouldnt have wanted him out to begin with.
I always say, if shaq gets traded every year, he would be playing good every year cuz he only plays good when he has something to prove

So it must be a coincidence that 3 different NBA teams reached the NBA finals, and 2 of them won it with a common denominator by the name of Shaquille O'Neal. Don't forget he lead Orlando to the NBA finals in his 2nd season, won several championships with the Lakers, and immediately won another one with Miami.

Ironically, Dwayne Wade's NBA success since that title, without Shaq next to his side is eerily resemblant of what Kobe went through since the departure of Shaq. Maybe thats a coincidence too?

Raminio: If you have to mention Damon Jones as a "key" role player for Lebron, you know you're really short on material. How many All-Stars does Lebron have next to him to take the pressure off?

Kobe is playing with 2 All-Star talents in Pau and Odom. Both of those guys would easily be the 2nd best player on Cleveland by a mile. And if you want to talk about 4th quarter dominance, I think Lebron scoring 32 of his team's final 34 points against a tough defense like the Detroit Pistons says a lot more than a player deciding to shoot 50 times in a regular season game against poor teams to pad his stats.

Kobe is not the only NBA player capable of scoring 80 in a game. But he's the only NBA player with the freedom, and to an extent the selfishness, to shoot over 50 times in an NBA basketball game.

[persianbruin]

You said that "There is no one that can take over like he does." You didn't mention anything about consistency, or how many times or for how long.
I just pointed out to you that there IS somebody who CAN take over like he does, and his name is Lebron. If you don't want to take into consideration the fact that Kobe has a much stronger supporting cast around him now than Lebron, then you aren't looking at the big picture. Not to mention that Kobe is 29 years old, and a 22 year old Lebron has already lead his team to the NBA finals single handedly.
As great as Kobe is, what has he ever accomplished since Shaq left LA? Besides score a ton of points for a mediocre team, not much. Once again he has a strong center like Pau playing with him and he's ready to dominate.
I can't even begin to fathom how many titles Lebron would win if he had a dominant center like Shaq making life easy for him. Even despite that, don't try to tell me that "no one can take over a game like Kobe", since Lebron has already proved you wrong in the past.

Dude I expect this from uneducated people but not from you!!!! The lakers didnt just lost shaq. They lost everyone!!

Dont forget the lakers WITH shaq in 02-03 had a losing record deep into january. It took a string of 9 straight 40 point games from kobe t get the into playoff positioning. People's excuse backj then was that kobe could score because of shaq, now we all know its so untrue!!!!!

The lakers got back into the mix because of karl malone and gary payton not shaq. shaq was old and washed up. Kobe wanted him to lose weight and buss wanted him to get a paycut so the lakers cold add more player for another run at the championship. He said NO!! so what did he do? He went to the heat, lost 35 pounds and got a huge paycut!!!!!!!

If anything, his success was a result of what kobe and buss wanted him to do which makes them right all along!! This is actually when I truly realized how little common sense the avg american has!!

There was an article couple years ago that showed how big the contribution of the 3 players the heat got as a result of the paycut by shaq were in the playoffs. If hae had done that with LA, kobe wouldnt have wanted him out to begin with.

I always say, if shaq gets traded every year, he would be playing good every year cuz he only plays good when he has something to prove

Ben wallace was a huge reason for their interior defense. Now rashid is their only inside guy. But the fact that the rest of the league is much better is 100% correct.
I have been tellin people the miami championship of 06 should have an "*" next to it cuz nobody was good that year but somebody had to win it!!
Seattle 96, utah. 97 &98, portland 00, sacramento 02, timberwolves 04 all woulda smoked the 06 heat

True. Without Ben, their not the same, but I dont think that their overrated.
As for the 06 heat, I kinda agree with you, but I think you might be underestimating them a little bit. Wayde was simply spectacular that season and the other role players did their part. But yeah, it was a whole different league then. So much has changed from then till now.

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You said that "There is no one that can take over like he does." You didn't mention anything about consistency, or how many times or for how long.
I just pointed out to you that there IS somebody who CAN take over like he does, and his name is Lebron. If you don't want to take into consideration the fact that Kobe has a much stronger supporting cast around him now than Lebron, then you aren't looking at the big picture. Not to mention that Kobe is 29 years old, and a 22 year old Lebron has already lead his team to the NBA finals single handedly.

Then why just mention Lebron? There are many other players who have taken over the game once or twice, but no one has done it as much as Kobe. That was the point that I was trying to make.

As great as Kobe is, what has he ever accomplished since Shaq left LA? Besides score a ton of points for a mediocre team, not much. Once again he has a strong center like Pau playing with him and he's ready to dominate.
I can't even begin to fathom how many titles Lebron would win if he had a dominant center like Shaq making life easy for him. Even despite that, don't try to tell me that "no one can take over a game like Kobe", since Lebron has already proved you wrong in the past

Its not like Lebron is playing with a bunch of nobodies. He has Z, and Jones, Pavlovich, and some other key role players.

Kobe has had less than this since the departure of Shaq and he still has been able to consistently dominate.

There is one thing that is known around the NBA, if its the fourth quarter, if the lakers are within 5-10 points, and if Kobe is playing, you better watch out.

[persianbruin]

You said that "There is no one that can take over like he does." You didn't mention anything about consistency, or how many times or for how long.
I just pointed out to you that there IS somebody who CAN take over like he does, and his name is Lebron. If you don't want to take into consideration the fact that Kobe has a much stronger supporting cast around him now than Lebron, then you aren't looking at the big picture. Not to mention that Kobe is 29 years old, and a 22 year old Lebron has already lead his team to the NBA finals single handedly.
As great as Kobe is, what has he ever accomplished since Shaq left LA? Besides score a ton of points for a mediocre team, not much. Once again he has a strong center like Pau playing with him and he's ready to dominate.
I can't even begin to fathom how many titles Lebron would win if he had a dominant center like Shaq making life easy for him. Even despite that, don't try to tell me that "no one can take over a game like Kobe", since Lebron has already proved you wrong in the past.

when kobe had a CBA built team around him he still was better in taking over a game than lebron. Remmeber 81? remember 62 in just 3 quarters??? all of that with smush and kwame as starting players

[Babak]

When Lebron starts doing it consistently like Kobe, then I'll give credit where its due.
How in the world are the pistons overrated.

You said that "There is no one that can take over like he does." You didn't mention anything about consistency, or how many times or for how long.

I just pointed out to you that there IS somebody who CAN take over like he does, and his name is Lebron. If you don't want to take into consideration the fact that Kobe has a much stronger supporting cast around him now than Lebron, then you aren't looking at the big picture. Not to mention that Kobe is 29 years old, and a 22 year old Lebron has already lead his team to the NBA finals single handedly.

As great as Kobe is, what has he ever accomplished since Shaq left LA? Besides score a ton of points for a mediocre team, not much. Once again he has a strong center like Pau playing with him and he's ready to dominate.

I can't even begin to fathom how many titles Lebron would win if he had a dominant center like Shaq making life easy for him. Even despite that, don't try to tell me that "no one can take over a game like Kobe", since Lebron has already proved you wrong in the past.

[persianbruin]

I dont think this is because the Pistons have gotten that much worst. It has more to do with the fact that the rest of the league has gotten much better, especially the west.

Ben wallace was a huge reason for their interior defense. Now rashid is their only inside guy. But the fact that the rest of the league is much better is 100% correct.

I have been tellin people the miami championship of 06 should have an "*" next to it cuz nobody was good that year but somebody had to win it!!

Seattle 96, utah. 97 &98, portland 00, sacramento 02, timberwolves 04 all woulda smoked the 06 heat

They are not the team they used to be!! That simple!! They are the second best team in the east but the lakers,hornets and spurs all can beat the pistons

I dont think this is because the Pistons have gotten that much worst. It has more to do with the fact that the rest of the league has gotten much better, especially the west.

[persianbruin]

When Lebron starts doing it consistently like Kobe, then I'll give credit where its due.
How in the world are the pistons overrated.

They are not the team they used to be!! That simple!! They are the second best team in the east but the lakers,hornets and spurs all can beat the pistons

Really? I could've sworn Lebron dropped 48 on the Pistons in last year's Eastern Conference finals literally carrying the team on his back in the 4th quarter, even when the whole world knew what was coming.
Kobe is great, but don't take credit away when credit is due. Lebron's single handed performance with a team far inferior to the current Lakers was one of the most legendary and dominant performances in NBA history.

When Lebron starts doing it consistently like Kobe, then I'll give credit where its due.

That was a dominant game by LbJ. But that was only one game!!!! Kobe has been doin it for 12 years.
Everybody can get hot every now and then but the graet ones make a habit of it.
P.S. The pistons are so overrated

How in the world are the pistons overrated.

[persianbruin]

Really? I could've sworn Lebron dropped 48 on the Pistons in last year's Eastern Conference finals literally carrying the team on his back in the 4th quarter, even when the whole world knew what was coming.
Kobe is great, but don't take credit away when credit is due. Lebron's single handed performance with a team far inferior to the current Lakers was one of the most legendary and dominant performances in NBA history.

That was a dominant game by LbJ. But that was only one game!!!! Kobe has been doin it for 12 years.

Everybody can get hot every now and then but the graet ones make a habit of it.

P.S. The pistons are so overrated

[Babak]

There is no one that can take over like he does (not even Lebron).

Really? I could've sworn Lebron dropped 48 on the Pistons in last year's Eastern Conference finals literally carrying the team on his back in the 4th quarter, even when the whole world knew what was coming.

Kobe is great, but don't take credit away when credit is due. Lebron's single handed performance with a team far inferior to the current Lakers was one of the most legendary and dominant performances in NBA history.

his best basket was his last one where he DID Smith after they were talking trash back and forth.

people can hate on kobe all they want, but you cant deny his talent. There is no one that can take over like he does (not even Lebron). And this is coming from a Kings fan.