Iran's Group- Discussion

[Doctor DOOM]

lol. as if having 5 players suspended and the change of venue from a bigger stadium to a tiny little 8000 capacity one wasnt enough for the poor uzbek coach, now it seems maxim shatskikh is doubtful for the iran game!!!!!!

come onnnnn. if we dont roll over them I dont know what would compel us to go for the kill

غیبت 6 بازیکن اصلی ازبکستان مقابل ایران

شاتسکیخ مصدوم شد

سرمربی تیم ملی فوتبال ازبکستان در حالی 29 بازیکن را به اردوی آماده سازی این تیم دعوت کرده است که علاوه بر محرومیت پنج بازیکن اصلی، یک لژیونر دیگر این تیم هم به خاطر مصدومیت نمی*تواند مقابل ایران بازی کند.تیم ملی فوتبال ازبکستان در حالی خود را برای بازی روز 14 خرداد با ایران آماده می*کند که درخواست آنها برای بخشش پنج بازیکن اصلی این تیم به فیفا رد شده است.جباروف، تورسنوف، گالیانین، ملادژانوف و اسلام توهتاجوف این غایبان هستند و "ماکسیم الکساندرویچ شاتسکیخ" بازیکن "آرسنال کیف" اوکراین به خاطرآنچه که سایت این باشگاه سرما خوردگی اعلام کرده است، قادر به همراهی تیم ملی این کشور نیست. به گزارش سایت این باشگاه، ماکسیم در حالت خوشبینانه هم نمی*تواند تیم ملی ازبکستان را در این دو مسابقه همراهی کند

[maij]

I agree with Martin Reza's analysis and way of thinking.

In international competitions ,the game of mind by the coaches is much more important than the players selection because the latter is variable fixed list but the former is fixed. The coach must have a strategy which makes or breaks a coach. The example of Ali Daei and the Saudi match was an excellent one. Daei suffered paid the price of his inexperience in the minds game and that is expected due to his relatively short coaching career.

The mentality of playing beautiful , slick and smooth football and winning by a good margin against opponents ( who have no history , as the Iranian TV commentators always remind us !) will not necessarily guarantee you success or qualification. Planning the match , deciding what is the minimal acceptable result for the team , setting game plans according to your players ability and studying the opponent should take priority.

I personally do not like the Geronimo approach in football. Sometimes your team , although better and more experienced , can not beat an determined and stubborn opponent is a tournament . To me , it is suicidal to go for an all out attack to get a winner to save face, instead the team should pace itself and try to maintain whatever result and start all over again in the next match.

[Doctor DOOM]

After jabbari's injury and hadadifar's loss of form, and given karimi's age still an issue for me, I was quite worried about a soft center for TM. But Md Nori's great form and some classy passing especially in asia gives me hope. If he continues with this form & passing, I'm sure he is capable of feeding our forward line nicely

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Uzbeks and Koreans are worrying me most.
Many are underestimating the Uzbeks, but in fact they are stronger than many ppl think they are.
It is a difficult group for Iran... I am confident vs Lebanon and also Qatar but it all depends on a good preparation... something that scares me about IFF sometimes .... (or most of times) ..... ((if not always)) ....

[Doctor DOOM]

to Martin

I really wonder if your mind would feel like exploding everytime you watch an AWAY team play attacking football and actually win, right?
I mean that shdnt sit well with the norms of this world or the plane of reality and the Newtonian laws of physics. right?
I'd love to see your face when, for example, you're watching an away side attack and then score the winning goal(s) the next time this happens. could you plz take a pic for us all, of your facial expression??

you'd be sitting there all shocked and scanalized saying: "No, No ... you're not supposed to win this game. No, you can NOT score. NO , no no , ... this is not supposed to happen. FOUL! FOUL! PENALTY! CORNER! service fault! ... aaarrrgghhh , something ... ANYTHING". then you'd throw the remote out the window and call fifa to rectify this mistake of away teams winning games or scoring late goals. "There SHOULD be a law against it"!

but jokes apart, this thing is about "once bitten, twice shy".
we failed to qualify the last time only becoz we had too many DRAWS ( FIVE draws out of the 8 games!! 2 wins and 1 loss) & too few wins, and never exploited our opportunities. and allowed a crappy, piss-poor saudi to get ahead of us (who eventually were so bad to actually lose to bahrain anyway)!!!
And now, to settle for yet another draw in THIS particular situation (plz go back and read the second page, stats and records and the nature of our luck in the first game, ...), then it seems we havent learned the most basic lesson from our last failure.
and if man doesnt learn from past failures, he's bound to repeat them again ... and again, and again ...



to Nokhodi
amoo, there's been enough talk about how lame that qualification route was. it was so lame it became INCOMPARABLE for .... eternity
however if you manage to point to ONE occasion when we had such an easy set up which qualifies it as a comparison to other WCQ editions, then I'd accept.
when, in aaaalllll our history, did we have:
1- exactly 50% chance of DIRECT qualification
2- exactly 63% chance of qualifying for the WC
3- our group comprised of 2 big teams(one of which was us), 2 small (3rd or at best leaning towards 2nd tier) teams

[persianallstars]

It would be a good result and it was a good result last time. As you could see later, Saudi wasn't a team easy to beat. We should have taken the draw in Azadi as well, the point would have been our direct ticket to WC, just see the final table.

Daei's mistake was the same mistake you and DD are committing now, dreaming of something not necessary and thereby wasting something valueable you have. He didn't position a player at the far post, instead opted to line him up upfront for a possible counter. We all know the result.

Yes, we are capeable of beating Uzbekistan, but they are also capeable of beating us, especially in Tashkent. I hope for a win which is what we should generally aim for, but if the score is 1-1 five minutes from time, only a fool would expose the defense to push for a win.

exactly

[Martin-Reza]

dont worry DD

we will struggle to a 0-0 or a 1-1 draw in Uzbekistan and people will tell us to relax and 'it was a good result' or 'it was a good start'

Just like what happened to us against Saudi last round.

It would be a good result and it was a good result last time. As you could see later, Saudi wasn't a team easy to beat. We should have taken the draw in Azadi as well, the point would have been our direct ticket to WC, just see the final table.

Daei's mistake was the same mistake you and DD are committing now, dreaming of something not necessary and thereby wasting something valueable you have. He didn't position a player at the far post, instead opted to line him up upfront for a possible counter. We all know the result.

Yes, we are capeable of beating Uzbekistan, but they are also capeable of beating us, especially in Tashkent. I hope for a win which is what we should generally aim for, but if the score is 1-1 five minutes from time, only a fool would expose the defense to push for a win.

[maij]

Something I have noticed about Uzbeks through the years, is that their scoring stats has always been on the moderate to low side comparing to the big boyz of Asia and certainly in comparison to Iran.
Another point is their lack of concentration as they can be disrupted quite easily when scored upon.
I watched their U23 team a few days back playing UAE at home and needing a win to qualify to London. They were 2 goals ahead and they ended up losing the match 2-4 !! despite their team being the more organized but quite poor at finishing.

But then again , this is football and in football what is on paper is not necessarily reflected on the field.

A win away at Tashkent would be a great start for Team Melli and I really really hope that CQ goes for a win which very much possible , of course. But somehow and from track record so far , I can't see CQ being Mr. Brave & courageous in Tashkent......I hope I am wrong.

[Nokhodi]

dont worry DD

we will struggle to a 0-0 or a 1-1 draw in Uzbekistan and people will tell us to relax and 'it was a good result' or 'it was a good start'

Just like what happened to us against Saudi last round.

You really are glass half empty kind of guy aren't you ? We also started the same way for WC 2006 against Bahrain.

[zzgloo]

I agree with Paymaan's assesment of the Uzbacks low scoring offense.....as they will most probabaly have the highest number of "Ties " in the group......and to beat Uzbaks ,we need to get the most points out of the the other teams...because they will not.

[Hadi]

dont worry DD

we will struggle to a 0-0 or a 1-1 draw in Uzbekistan and people will tell us to relax and 'it was a good result' or 'it was a good start'

Just like what happened to us against Saudi last round.

[Doctor DOOM]

and just to get a better grip on their offense, I just checked their stats and scorers in the final round

first of all their biggest margin of victory is a 3-0 against the lowly tajikistan [ scorers - ahmedov odil, geynrich aleksander, tursunov sanjar ]
you leave that one out, you have them scoring only 1 goal in every game:
a 1-0 at tajikistan [ scorer - Maksim ]
a 1-1 draw with japan [ scorer - dejaprov ]
a 1-0 in DPR [ scorer - geynrich aleksander ]
a 1-0 vs. DPR [ scorer - Kapadze ]
and a 1-0 at Japan (where japan didnt need the points anyway) [ scorer - shadrin aleksander ]

the red players are the suspended ones.

this means this "deadly combo" (sorry mate. old habits die hard ) has a grand total of 3 goals amongst themselves.
and since I'm feeling pretty perky and fine today, I will throw in Maksim .. for free ... just for you,.... (with a thick arabic accent) huh mai ferend, huh? okaaaay.

so their 3 top players remaining have scored a total of 4 goals 2 of which have been against the lowly tajikistan.
and in the match up between them and japan that MATTERED, only djeparov scored the goal ... who is suspended.

so I wouldnt lose serious sleep over them scoring (am not discounting the danger. but I'm being realistic) while I would really work hard on breaking that tight, miserly defense.

so anyway we slice it, we MUST GET THAT WIN in tashkent. however we look at it.




and if we end up being too passive and SETTLE for draws, they may pile up and ... well, we know what happened to us the last time, dont we?

our traditional problem has usually been that we lose focus, get too c0cky and slip up against weaker and smaller teams, while we play well against tougher, bigger teams. so I wouldnt want to unnecessarily lose points just becoz our lads get c0cky again and draw to qatar or lebanon.

[Doctor DOOM]

^
mate, I would hardly call them "deadly combo" if the entire team has only managed to score 8 goals (how many of those 8 goals have these 2 scored??)
I'd be more worried about their defense rather than offense. and them missing 2-3 of their main defenders is one gift horse we shd not pass up on.



well, mansour brings up a good point. however it still doesnt change the fact that japan didnt need the points of that game.
some even say they may have even wanted to avoid Iran which was flying high (do note the highest goal scoring team of the qualifiers IS a major factor for coaches to worry about) as opposed to south korea who were struggling and didnt really convince their fans.

I am sure had japan needed the point or the points of their game we'd have seen a totally different japan.


besides, even if we go by this new theory, I still say we shd go for the win and not a draw. simply because if we make the uzbeks into some massive giants, then we stand a better chance of getting a 3 points out of the tie when many of their starting line up are missing .... rather than waiting for their full roster that is feared to be super-duper strong (who may even beat us in the tehran return game!!)

all that said, our objective of winning in tashkent shd not change
choose whatever theory & reasoning, ... ironically the objective & target still stays the same: we MUST get the win in tashkent
either becoz we meet them at their weakest or becoz we may end up losing to them in the return leg with the return of 5 more extra strong players.

[Martin-Reza]

^ You are absolutely right Mansour, a draw in Tashkent would certainly be a great result.

Maxim Shatskikh and Aleksander Geynrikh are a deadly combo upfront. In the back they are very solid anyways and with Nesterov they have a reliable keeper. Their midfield might be weakened by the absence of Server Djeparov, but they still have some decent midfielders left, such as Timur Kapadze or Viktor Karpenko.

[Mansoor]

doostan, are you aware of the fact that Uzbeks without those 5 players defeated Japan in Japan? I know both teams were qualified already but that match did effect the seeding and I don't think Japan was taking easy in it's official home match. Regardless, any win in any situation at Japan explains the 5 players were not "that" important as some are describing.

Uzbek is the most favored team in this group to advance not Korea. In prelim, they won 5 out of 6 matches, only with one tie against Japan. Japan was down 0-1 in that match till 65th min. Uzbeks were one goal away from winnnin 6 out of 6 in a group that included Japan and North Korea.

The player that Iran should fear the most is available for the match and that is Maksim.

I am sure any suspension of any starting player effects the team but I don't think it will be the deciding factor. Uzbeks will still play at home with a very strong squad.