Iran's Group- Discussion

[Paradigm]

You know this was not the first time Iran beat South Korea on their turf. It also happened in a 2010 friendly when Shojaie scored.... Coincidentally that win was also a 1 - 0 and had to do with a sole defensive error on the part of the Koreans. In any case it the fans over there have been furious with the outcome and even attacked their own federation's web site so as to bring it down for a few hours.

ISN - سايت فدراسيون فوتبال كره جنوبي پس از شكست تيم ملي اين كشور مقابل ايران و هجوم هواداران خشمگين كره اي به اين سايت و ايجاد ترافيك سنگين، براي ساعاتي مسدود شد. كره جنوبي ديشب در ديدار مقابل ايران در اولسان يك بر صفر شكست خورد تا به عنوان تيم دوم گروه نخست مقدماتي جام جهاني ۲۰۱۴ از آسيا به جام جهاني صعود كند. اما اين نتيجه براي فوتبال دوستان كره رضايت بخش نبود به طوريكه بعد از پايان بازي سرمربي تيمشان را به باد انتقاد گرفتند. به گزارش رويترز، هواداران خشمگين و رسانه هاي كره و همچنين كارلوس كي روش سرمربي تيم ملي ايران بعد از سوت پايان ديدار ديشب دو تيم، همگي چوي كانگ هي سرمربي تيم كره جنوبي را هدف قرار دادند. تيم كره در دوره هاي گذشته مقدماتي جام جهاني همواره پيش از پايان مسابقات صعود خود را قطعي مي كرد اما اينبار سرنوشت اين تيم به بازي آخر كشيده شد آنهم به گونه اي كه با اختلاف اندك نسبت به ازبكستان توانست تيم دوم گروه شود و جواز صعود مستقيم به جام جهاني را بگيرد. اين در حاليست كه چوي قبل از بازي با ايران، در اظهاراتي جنجالي، از پيروزي در ديدار دو تيم ابراز اطمينان كرده بود. روزنامه جونگ آنگ ايلبو در مورد اين بازي نوشت: شرم آور بود. بازي هجومي كه چوي قولش را داده بود، سرابي بيش نبود. چوي قبل از بازي با ايران اظهاراتي را بيان كرده بود كه به گفته كي روش بايد عذرخواهي مي كرد. كي روش اين عذرخواهي را نشنيد اما آخرين لبخند را او در بازي ديشب زد. سرمربي تيم ملي ايران بعد از سوت پايان مسابقه در حاليكه لبخند مي زد عكسي از چوي را جلوي پيراهن خود چسبانده بود كه نشان مي داد پيراهن تيم ازبكستان را با فتوشاپ تن چوي كرده بود. سرمربي تيم ايران بعد از بازي در مورد اظهارات چوي گفت: ما عاشق مردم و فرهنگ كره هستيم. همه مي دانيم كه كره مردمان مهرباني دارد اما رفتار چوي خوب نبود. گفته مي شود كي روش بعد از بازي به سمت سرمربي كره جنوبي رفت و اين حركت او فدراسيون اين كشور را به خشم آورده به طوريكه مقامات اين فدراسيون اعلام كرده اند موضوع را به فيفا گزارش خواهند داد. چهارشنبه 29 خرداد 1392

[Martin-Reza]

AW: Iran's Group- Discussion

You're predictions were quite well. Funny I wrote about needing 16 points to be safe. I just had not expected the way we would collect those.

[Nokhodi]

As an Iranian I've learnt to expect the worst. I can never be comfortable about any of the games and I probably have the damaged heart of a 85 year old heart attack victim because of this team.

Having said that here is what I think will happen:

Uzbekistan vs Iran - 3rd June 2012: Iran wins 2-1
Iran vs Qatar- 12th June 2012 - Iran ties 1-1
Lebanon vs Iran- 11 Sept. 2012 - Iran wins 1-0
Iran vs Korea- 16 Oct 2012 Iran ties 1-1
Iran vs Uzbekistan 14 Novembor 2012. Iran ties 1-1
Qatar vs Iran- 4th June 2013 - Iran ties 1-1
Iran vs Lebanon- 11 June 2013. - Iran wins 2-0.
Korea vs Iran- 18 June 2013 - Iran loses 2-1

13 points in total which should be more than enough.
I worry about this team and its defense particularly during the first and last 10 minutes of every game.

I wanted to bump this up. Lol. TM actually exceeded my expectations. I expected 13 points and thought it would be enough (it wouldn't have) And I thought we would only get 1 point from Korea. hahahaha.

How did you guys do?

[Doctor DOOM]

I'd like to know why even the supposed world renowned celebrated coaches like CQ fail to understand in such a tight campaign with such a hellish last run of 3 games, why dont they make sure they collect as many points as possible from the beginning 3-4 games?
this cant be a "man-daravordi" theory. all the successful teams apply it. look at japan and korea who always aim to collect points early on so they avoid the final ties' stress (whether they accomplish it is a different matter. often they do. but even those times they dont, you can clearly see they did go after the points early on in their campaigns with their aggressive games even in AWAY games)


why play these games so cautiously and defensively? referring to single forward formation + two def-mids. fat load of good having 2 DM's have done for us!!!!

I'm not even getting into his love affair with the ballerina and the strange, wonky deal of first dropping her and then starting with her! I'm just talking about an overall strategy for the campaign progress. why leave it to the last games?

this is reflected in the way our coaches approach a single game too. too much time spent on "assessing" the other team, thus making the process of getting the winning goal that much more stressful and hard by allotting the final 30-20 minutes of the game ... which given the traditional iranian psychology, is already a major source of stress. and now, with the last 3-4 years of frenzied feeding and fattening of our players, a task made 10 times harder!

how much worse could we get and how deep in trouble would we be if we adopted a more aggressive and attacking posture. towards an individual game as well as a campaign? would we be in a worse shape and spot that we are now? I refuse to think so.



so when some of us say "it's early on and drawing a game (we shd have won) is not the end of the world and are happy with 0-0 draws, they might want to think about the last 3 ties that NOW, after yesterday's disaster look like a bloody humongous mountain to climb



***************

on another note, what the hell is it with us and dropping points to the worst teams in our groups .. EACH AND EVERY BLOODY CAMPAIGN?

MK lost to qatar in 98 Q's 2-0 when we thought we'd roll over them!
in 2002 Q's Ciro lost 3-1 to bahrain, another minnow team that was already eliminated!
in 2006 Q's, we must thank god for blessing us with an oil-tanker load of luck by making the group so easy my aunt would qualify from such an easy group. even with that easy-as-shit group, we dropped points to bahrain, whom we had just thrashed by 4 goals mere 3-4 months prior!
in 2010 we dropped precious points to UAE, the dead last team in the group!
and now, in 2014, losing to lebanon and drawing wt qatar in azadi!


something is wrong with our players ... no, all IRANIANs' psyche.
why are we so screwed up in the head to get so linient and relaxed when playing smaller teams?
and why are we so retarded to not learn from history?

[zzgloo]

Payman Jaan...
The issue is not the clubs...It is the IFF !!
QC said he noticed the wrong League schedualing when he signed and mentioned them to IFF..and asked them if they could finish up earlier.....Later,he was told they will try...
Keep in mind what CQ wants to do....he has two things different than other previouse head coaches.....one,that he believes full heartedly,everthing is in preparation !...and he prides himself in preparation..and two, he is a " Teaching coach "..that is to say, his back ground from u-20 of portugal and producing many top players had been because of his " teaching " !!
More over,as we just saw last week with his frustrations with some players who " Could not Look up " while playing.....he thinks, Iranian players particularly need additional teaching !....in many Tactical aspects that seperates them from European players ( aside from lack of professionalities )...
Considering all the above.....he needs more time with players ,particularly for the first game..and particularly with so many missing, coming so late, and coming tired.

[Doctor DOOM]

my point was the adjective used.
beating minnows maldives & indonesia by 3-4 goals and getting 2 draws against qatar and a draw against bahrain (I did say aside from the wonky 6-0 in iran) shd in nobody's books be called "high flying". an improvement from last tournament? maybe. definitely a team with more courage and guts than that of ghotbi's. but "high-flying"? No.

well, in my books high-flying would be if we thrashed qatar (as we had enough chances ... no thanks to jello-legs ansarifard ) both home and away as well as bahrain. I'm not even gonna count indonesia, maldives, madagascar, palestine, ... arre, oore, & shamsi-kooreh and their distant poor cousins!

my point is while we shd acknowledge improvements and progress, we shd not be so easily satisfied and content to call those results as high flying, no matter how gutless we looked with ghotbi in key games. we were the team that destroyed south korea 6-2, saudis 3-0, defeated japan, won 4 asian games championships and 3 asia cups, .. etc etc.

[BacheLot]

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? or have I gotten too old to remember?
HIGH FLYING?
take out the 6-0 bahrain game where we faced the 10 man team for almost the entirety of the game, where was this high-flying that I dont remember?
surely it cant be the 4-0 of maldives. nor the qatar draws. it cant be against the minnows, indonesia either.

I'm not putting CQ down. I also do recognize his stature and place in world football. But as far as his IRAN stint (TM performance on a pitch) is considered, I'm not so convinced. although his professionalism and insistence on the right attitude is a great positive. I'm just hoping we do see some high flying performances in this round.

Well the highFlying is a subjective adjective & can mean different things to different folks..!
I just think many here have forgotten the Utter Disaster of a TM @ the time that it was inherited by CQ..! Go back, read through some the threads after the AC debacle & few here really believed that we could even survive the last round of qualifiers ..! Much less to top the group, with relavent ease..! Outside the very unlucky draw @ Qatar, we pretty much dominated other opponents, getting more & more formidable game by game..! until the last two qualifiers..! There has been an obvious let-off in our overall performances " as a team" & our results in key games have been reflective of such ..! Now if u don't see it as such, Then that's just your overall perspective..!!
If this was TM coming off the Bahrain trashing then yea I woulda perhaps agreed to a more offensive aggressive approach your suggesting vs Uzbeks..! But to do such in light of today's ill prepared, confidence-shaken, forward-decimatedTM, vs a Solid, defensively formidable, well organized Opponent playing @ Home ! ????
Then it's more like a real stupid gamble to me..!

[Doctor DOOM]

having said all that, I still think CQ has his 8 players for at least 10 days to practice with and go through his strategies.
besides, these 8 players have been playing alongside each other for many years now. 5 are from a single club; ss. add aghili, neku, and khalatbari to the fold, then you have a team that pretty much knows its players and all CQ has to do is tactics and game planning.
10 days for that ought to be enough.

and we still face a very weakened uzbekistan and it would be a great shame if we go in looking for a draw. such opportunities and chances knock our door only once in a blue moon. and it is stupidity if we dont grab them and go with the "draw away and win at home" rule. Daei tired that and look how we ended up.
lets not leave it to the last 2-3 match-days to get the required points which usually ends in disaster and failure

[Doctor DOOM]

But Bahram jan, what do you expect the clubs to do?

as I said in the football forum, if the gap between the acl games and the Turkey camp (or when he expected the players to join the team) was large enough, then CQ would have had enough justifiable reason. But there simply wasnt. and as Martin rightfully pointed out, he expects (nearly demands) professionalism from the clubs. But when it comes to TM call ups he expects them to behave differently from pro clubs (who keep their players until 2-3 days before national games)!!

He started his rumblings and mumblings around Thursday/Friday that nobody listens to him and nobody cares and ... et etc etc.

seeing that sepahan, ss and pp have extremely important (almost season-defining) games on TUESDAY and WEDNESDAY, that leaves a very short gap (around 4-5 days) in between.
point 1- gap of 4-5 days

secondly, pp was to travel to saudi. and for that, you need at least a day or two to acclimatize with the venue, the ground and climate. so for pp that gap would have been even SHORTER. say 2-3 days

even ss was to travel to sepahan and I doubt it would be prudent for them to go there on the day of the game. at the latest, they'd go there on the morning of the previous day. and that's the LATEST. so for ss, the gap would have been 3-4 days.

Sepahan also needs their single ( ridiculous and highly questionable, as sepahan are the champs, the best goal average and pretty solid defense with the best goal keeper of the league!) call up, hosseini a couple of days before the game.

Now, how can you expect the clubs to release their players.
and the players to travel with TM to turkey.
stay there for 2-3 days only
and then travel all the way to esfahan and jeddah
and in a couple of days play a high stress game and immediately fly back all the way to turkey
..... and not be extremely travel-fatigued, tired and injury prone after that?

so what benefit would CQ get from those 2-3 days that outweighs such a fatigued and injury-prone possibility?
surely CQ must know the dangers and the risk definitely outweighs the benefits of those 2-3 days.

I'd rather have a team that has been under less travel fatigue and strain.


and I'm not even going to bring up who pays the livelihood of these players. although, a very important factor too

[zzgloo]

It seems nobody is listening to CQ in IRAN...The guy is pissed,and he has right to be....
It is major fvckup,to have players not available ( ten of them,and the majority of the TM players ),specialy them coming after a long season and immidiate asian club tournements.....perspolise and Sepahan,and Esteghlal players....
This is going to be far more important a handicap..than Uzbaks having some injured and disqualified players playing at home and rested,and studing TM and train for TM.....in thier own home......
it does not look good !

[Paradigm]

I am worried by all these recent injuries, specially in the forward line... I hope the team can still get the result in Uzbekistan.

[Doctor DOOM]

let's face it, after a highflying WCQ start by CQ's team, TM has been in a serious funk as of late,

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? or have I gotten too old to remember?
HIGH FLYING?
take out the 6-0 bahrain game where we faced the 10 man team for almost the entirety of the game, where was this high-flying that I dont remember?
surely it cant be the 4-0 of maldives. nor the qatar draws. it cant be against the minnows, indonesia either.

I'm not putting CQ down. I also do recognize his stature and place in world football. But as far as his IRAN stint (TM performance on a pitch) is considered, I'm not so convinced. although his professionalism and insistence on the right attitude is a great positive. I'm just hoping we do see some high flying performances in this round.

[zzgloo]

TM must start with a " Bang ", and beating the Uzbaks right off the bat !
Despit some freindly games of TM under QC.....the TM is still an " unknown ", for most teams..may be a little less for the Qatar team......
There has been a lot of changes..since Ghotbi Era for the opposing teams to analyse TM.and QC has much more videos of Uzbaks to look at than Uzbak's coach does of TM under QC;and put that together with the players Uzbaks miss,it will be great situation for TM,specialy since QC is a better strategiest/analyst than the Uzbaks' head coach.........beside...Ashkan Dejagah,will be a wild card and a surprize to opposing the teams.

[BacheLot]

Cautious offensive is the approach to take vs. Uzbeks..!
We must control the MF & possession for most part & hope for a win via set play or a cross..!

I think the best thing going for us vs this quality proven Uzbek team, is the mental/confidence advantage steming from our historic successful stints vs them..!
let's face it, after a highflying WCQ start by CQ's team, TM has been in a serious funk as of late, especially in our last 2 qualifiers & the only decent friendly we played since vs. Jordan ..!( in fact, only a super performance from the now injured Dejagha saved us blushes vs the supposed weak Qatar @ Home..!)
that 3rd tie in a row, coming back from behind, also showed our opponents by now have figured CQ's prefered tactics & formations & familiaried themselves with how to combat it.
we also witnessed how vulnerable our D is vs swift counters, & add to that our currently decimated attacking line & shaky rahmati, 7 starters missing almost half the training camp..! & we would be foolish to adopt an all out attacking style in an Away match ..!

Conventional wisdom would tell u that u go for a tie away & win @ home vs decent/respectable opponents & try to get the full 6 points vs the obvious inferior team( lebonan).
Only a hopeless weak team like lebonan would adopt a risky approach from get go..! We must not get overconfident @ anytime during this final round & only incoporate risk in our approach throughout as deemed necessary by our overall form as a team, based on overall standings in the group & for most part on the game day, purely based on game situations ( which means for most part second halves of any away match, even vs Lebanon ..!)

Lucky for us, Uzbeks are missing some key would be starters..! sure that their other players may not be as technically skilled as most of ours but unlike our players (& arab Arab teams ..!) most all uzbek players have better fundamental football skills & tactical sense ..!
They most probably will adopt a somewhat conservative defensive approach in their game against us & hope to snatch a late or a very early goal..!
Ps
I have total faith in CQ's final adopted strategy ..! & hope we don't slip up & come back empty handed..!

[Martin-Reza]

^ Good for us, but we still won't roll over a well organized and good team on the road.