Iran - Jordan (Azadi)

[yashar_fasihnia]

Well time will show. But I think comparing him to Sattar Zare isnt' fair. Agha Yashar beleive me for a player to play good in the TM there is this emotional capacity besides the technical stuff. You can't expect to bring a guy who is new in 67th minute and expect him to do miracle. I wish he did.
As he start to get confidence the same way he did in SS (comapre him with last year) where coaching staff didnt' trust him, you will see Baykzadeh will be the best LB we have had for a while (after Pashazadeh) in recent history and my favorite player Asghar Hajiloo in Esteghlal. Amoo Asghar on left and Shahin Bayani on Right were one of the best LB, RBs I can remember. So was Zendeh yad Habib Khabiri from Homa and Ebrahim Ashteeyani in Perspolise but they were RBs both.

i hope so, then he can save both TM and esteghlal from a permanent iranian football cancer, but somehow, man chesham ab nemibine.

i dont expect him to do miracles, i expect him to know when to pass, when to dribble, and to be more aware of the game around him. he doesnt satisfy me with just lots of running but not much of an end result.

P.S. last year he was playing as pistone chap in ghalenoi's 3-5-2, something he in my opinion doesnt have the capacity to handle.

[Ali Chicago]

i think we can say the same more or less about sattar zare as well and he was at best average as well.

beygzadeh putting his head down and kicking the ball 10 meters ahead of him and then trying to run and get it again, that too with his slow speed, is something he does even in esteghlal repeatedly.

poor guy, he works hard, but not smart. if it wasnt for his good size which helps him in tackling and his defense duties, i wouldnt want to see him anywhere close to TM or even esteghlal. unfortunately, we are so limited in options that we have to settle down for him or others of similar standards..

Well time will show. But I think comparing him to Sattar Zare isnt' fair. Agha Yashar beleive me for a player to play good in the TM there is this emotional capacity besides the technical stuff. You can't expect to bring a guy who is new in 67th minute and expect him to do miracle. I wish he did.

As he start to get confidence the same way he did in SS (comapre him with last year) where coaching staff didnt' trust him, you will see Baykzadeh will be the best LB we have had for a while (after Pashazadeh) in recent history and my favorite player Asghar Hajiloo in Esteghlal. Amoo Asghar on left and Shahin Bayani on Right were one of the best LB, RBs I can remember. So was Zendeh yad Habib Khabiri from Homa and Ebrahim Ashteeyani in Perspolise but they were RBs both.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ true.
coz if the opponent is trying to put pressure on u by close marking and a pressing game, the last thing you want to do is send out high balls that even on normal occasions pose only 50-50 chances of possession by ur mates ... let alone a physical pressing opponent who WILL disrupt all these balls.

ur best bet is to keep passing the ball around and force the opponents to spend excess energy following the ball... which would mean by middle of the second half they wont have much left in their tanks and then you can press on for the goal.
and the best way to keep possession by passing is to keep it on the ground. and we definitely do have the players who CAN retain the ball.
but ghotbi's "bezan ziresh, deimi" tactics meant surrendering the advantage to the pressing opponents who either took back the ball or at least disrupted our passing/possession.

but then again what can we expect from a computer analyst with only a uni-dimensional template for a team?
NOTHING MORE!!!!!!

[zzgloo]

[b]. در طول بازی، ایران فقط از توپ*های بلند استفاده می*کرد. من بازیکنی هستم که روی زمین بازی می*کنم. در طول 90 دقیقه در جریان بازی نبودم و نتوانستم خودم را نشان دهم. اگر بازی روی زمین قرار می*گرفت و محوریت بازی ایران بازی زمینی بود من هم می*توانستم خودم را نشان دهم.
.

This is a clear indication,Ghotbi, niether knows whose his players are, nor does he plan according to talents he has.....he apparantly, designs the game plan,regardless of the type of players he has.....
Such plans implimented,could have been better for nekonam,not Mobali....
as well as , the higher football skills of Iranian players ,compare to jordanians, pays off better, on the ground, and not on the air.

[yashar_fasihnia]

به نظرت تیم ملی به جام ملت*های آسیا صعود می*کند؟
حتما صعود می*کنیم اما باید در جام ملت*های آسیا به قهرمانی برسیم. چون مردم به دنبال موفقیت تیم ملی هستند.

damn.... look at wat state our football has reached that such questions are being asked by journalists!!

[Doctor DOOM]

تیم ملی فقط از توپ*های بلند استفاده می*کرد
مبعلی: من فدا شدم تا آندو و پژمان راحت*تر بازی کنند


ایمان مبعلی هافبک ایرانی النصر شرایط خوبی را در اردوی تیم ملی سپری نکرد. او یک روز پس از تمرین با تیم ملی، دچار مصدومیت شد و نتوانست به خواسته*هایش در این اردو برسد. ایمان از عملکرد خود در بازی با اردن راضی نیست و اعتقاد دارد که شرایط بازی برای تیم ملی را نداشت.

از بازی با اردن شروع کنیم. چرا باختیم؟
بازی خیلی مهمی برای اردنی*ها بود و خیلی دویدند و زحمت کشیدند تا به برد برسند. تماشاگران اردنی جو بازی را کاملا به نفع این تیم کرده بودند و تیم جوان ایران نیز تحت*تاثیر این جو قرار گرفته بود.

برد، حق اردن بود؟
حتی اگر اردن هم به پیروزی نمی*رسید حق ما برد نبود. موقعیت*های آنها بهتر از ما بود و بیشتر از ما در زمین دویدند. به نظر من بهترین نتیجه*ای که تیم ملی می*توانست در این بازی بگیرد، مساوی بود.

از عملکرد خودت راضی هستی؟
خوب بازی نکردم چون شرایط تیم خوب نبود و یک بازی تحت فشار را پشت سر گذاشتیم. در طول بازی، ایران فقط از توپ*های بلند استفاده می*کرد. من بازیکنی هستم که روی زمین بازی می*کنم. در طول 90 دقیقه در جریان بازی نبودم و نتوانستم خودم را نشان دهم. اگر بازی روی زمین قرار می*گرفت و محوریت بازی ایران بازی زمینی بود من هم می*توانستم خودم را نشان دهم.

در بازی*هایی که از تو دیدیم، همیشه دوست داری محور بازی باشی.
دقیقا، ولی در تیم ملی این*طور نبود. من پشت فوروارد بازی می*کردم و دو هافبک دفاعی تیم اردن روبه*روی من قرار داشتند. در این بازی فدا شدم تا آندو و پژمان راحت*تر بازی کنند.

اعتقاد داری که نباید تیم ملی با توپ*های بلند بازی می*کرد؟
به نظرم نباید بازی را روی هوا می*بردیم. با توپ*های بلند نمی*توانستیم کاری کنیم. کریم انصاری*فر جوان بود و نتوانست از توپ*های بلند استفاده کند. از طرفی اردن هم همین نوع بازی را از ما می*خواست. در واقع ما دلخواه اردن بازی کردیم.

در مجموع اردوی خوبی برای تو نبود.
اصلا اردوی خوبی نبود. یکی از بدترین اردوهای زندگی*ام را پشت سر گذاشتم. روز اول مصدوم شدم و 10 روز تمرین نداشتم. بعد از 10 روز مداوا، بدون تمرین مقابل مقدونیه قرار گرفتم آن هم در یک زمین لغزنده. خیلی می*ترسیدم که دوباره مصدوم شوم. از طرفی باشگاه النصر می*دانست که من مصدوم هستم و مدام با من تماس می*گرفتند که چرا در اردوی تیم ملی مانده*ام و برای مداوا به امارات برنمی*گردم. من اهداف زیادی در این اردو داشتم ولی اردوی خوبی برایم نبود و تمام برنامه*هایم خراب شد.

وضعیت کمردردت چطور است؟
خیلی بهتر شدم و کمتر احساس درد می*کنم. پیش از بازی با اردن اصلا معلوم نبود که من بازی کنم چون باشگاه اجازه نمی*داد که برای تیم ملی بازی کنم اما دقیقه 90 این اجازه به من داده شد.

دوشنبه با تیم عجمان بازی دارید. نظرت در مورد این بازی چیست؟
عجمان تا به حال برد نداشته اما این هفته توانست در جام حذفی امارات، العین را شکست دهد. این برد اتفاق بزرگی در امارات بود و نشان می*دهد که عجمان نسبت به گذشته پیشرفت کرده است. آنها در زمین خودشان بازی می*کنند و بازیکن بزرگی چون جواد کاظمیان را هم در اختیار دارند.

به نظرت تیم ملی به جام ملت*های آسیا صعود می*کند؟
حتما صعود می*کنیم اما باید در جام ملت*های آسیا به قهرمانی برسیم. چون مردم به دنبال موفقیت تیم ملی هستند.

[St_Mark]

btw, another pathetic totally poor game by beygzadeh today..
this guy is so slow mentally, its unbelievable!

It seems Ghotbi has discovered something!
If it did not workout Left why not try Right ?


Ghotbi on Defense:

ديگر دوره دفاع هايى كه به زير توپ مى زدند، گذشته است. بايد واقعيت ها را بپذيريم. فوتبال ايرانى ۲۰ سال است كه دفاع چپ بين المللى نداشتهاست اما ما آمده ايم تا اين كار را انجام بدهيم. .

Ghotbi on Hajsafi:
He has asked GN to use him as LB.

ما آمده ايم تا يك چپ پا را در دفاع چپ بگذاريم و فكر مى كنم كهحاج صفى بهترين گزينه براى اين مسأله باشد.

براى اين موضوع با امير قلعه نويىهم گفت وگويى را داشته ام كه از حاج صفى در سپاهان هم در همان پستى كه تيم ملى ازاو استفاده مى كند،

Ghotbi on Beykzadeh:
He has recommended Marfavi to use him as RB.

درباره هاشم بيك زاده هم بايد بگويم كه پاى تخصصى او پاى راست استو از او در دفاع راست تيم ملى استفاده مى كنيم، ضمن اينكه صحبت هايى هم با صمدمرفاوى داشته ايم كه او نيز در استقلال از بيك زاده در دفاع راست استفاده كند.

Ghotbi on Promises:

Asian Cup
No promise it's just his aim not a promise

گفته ام كه هدف گذارى ما قهرمانى در جام ملت هاى آسياست، كهبعضى ها آن را به اشتباه متوجه شده اند

WC:
It will take him time to explain.

من بر اساس يك واقعيت ملموس چنين قولى را دادم و اگر آن روزنتوانستم به قولم عمل كنم، به خاطر دلايلى است كه اگر بخواهم راجع به آن صحبت كنم،شرايط نزديك به ۱۰ ساعت زمان لازم داشته باشد

قطبى: قولى براى قهرمان كردن تيم ملى در جام ملت ها نداده ام

افشين قطبى سرمربى تيم ملى گفت: ما مى خواستيم تيمى را بسازيم كه مردم ايران به آن افتخار كنند و بار ديگر بتوانند ۱۰۰ هزار تماشاگر را به ورزشگاه ها بكشاند. البته براى داشتن چنين تيمى بايد هم هزينه كرد و البته شايد همين شكست ها هزينه آن باشد. وى در واكنش به انتقادات اين روزهاى كارشناسان فوتبال گفت: ۸ ماه است كه داريم كار مى كنيم اما تا به امروز يك كارشناس يا يك مربى ليگ برترى بر سر تمرينات تيم ملى ايران حاضر نشده اند كه نحوه تمرينات ما را ببينند اما در مقابل هرچه كه خواستند در اين مدت از ما انتقاد شده است. او كه انتقادات اين روز ها بسيار او را عصبانى كرده است اظهار كرد: ما مى خواهيم يك تيم خوب براى آينده بسازيم. ما مى خواهيم در فوتبال و در تيم ملى تغيير نسل بوجود بياوريم. ما در همين مدت نظم و انضباط خوبى را به تيم آورده ايم. حاشيه هاى اطراف تيم ملى را به حداقل رسانده ايم و به تيم ملى ايران شخصيت داده ايم. ما مى خواستيم تيمى را بسازيم كه مردم ايران به آن افتخار كنند و بار ديگر بتوانند ۱۰۰ هزار تماشاگر را به ورزشگاه ها بكشاند. البته براى داشتن چنين تيمى بايد هم هزينه كرد و البته شايد همين شكست ها هزينه آن باشد.قطبى در ادامه گفت: تيم ملى با توجه به شرايط هر گاه مى خواهد در مقابل حريفى بازى كند، پيش از بازى يك يا ۲ گل از حريف خودش عقب است كه اين اصلا چيز خوبى نيست و آقايان بايد كمك كنند تا حداقل ما در يك شرايط مساوى به ديدار حريفان خود برويم.وى با اشاره به بازى برگشت ايران مقابل اردن تصريح كرد: ما اعتقاد داشتيم كه شرايط اردنى ها در اين بازى شرايطى عادى نيست و اين موضوع را به مسئولان برگزاركننده هم اعلام داشتيم اما كسى حرف هاى ما را نشنيد. قطبى ادامه داد: فدراسيون بين المللى فوتبال فيفا در بازى هاى رسمى اش از بازيكنان تست دوپينگ مى گيرد اما متاسفانه كنفدراسيون فوتبال آسيا AFC اين كار را نمى كند و همين مسأله باعث مى شود كه برخى از تيم ها به دوپينگ متوسل شوند.سرمربى تيم ملى فوتبال ايران در خصوص انتقادات اين روزهاى منتقدين گفت: فكر مى كنم، بسيارى از اين انتقادات به دليل بى اطلاعى باشد، چرا كه مى شود در لابه لاى حرف هاى آنها اين موضوع را كاملا متوجه شد. اينكه من قول داده ام تيم ملى ايران را قهرمان جام ملت هاى آسيا كنم، به هيچ وجه صحت ندارد اما گفته ام كه هدف گذارى ما قهرمانى در جام ملت هاى آسياست، كه بعضى ها آن را به اشتباه متوجه شده اند.سرمربى تيم ملى درباره وعده هايش در خصوص حضور تيم ملى ايران در رقابت هاى جام جهانى ۲۰۱۰ آفريقاى جنوبى هم گفت: من بر اساس يك واقعيت ملموس چنين قولى را دادم و اگر آن روز نتوانستم به قولم عمل كنم، به خاطر دلايلى است كه اگر بخواهم راجع به آن صحبت كنم، شرايط نزديك به ۱۰ ساعت زمان لازم داشته باشد. افشين قطبى در دفاع از عملكرد خط دفاعى ايران اظهار كرد: ديگر دوره دفاع هايى كه به زير توپ مى زدند، گذشته است. بايد واقعيت ها را بپذيريم. فوتبال ايرانى ۲۰ سال است كه دفاع چپ بين المللى نداشته است اما ما آمده ايم تا اين كار را انجام بدهيم. ما آمده ايم تا يك چپ پا را در دفاع چپ بگذاريم و فكر مى كنم كه حاج صفى بهترين گزينه براى اين مسأله باشد.
وى افزود: براى اين موضوع با امير قلعه نويى هم گفت وگويى را داشته ام كه از حاج صفى در سپاهان هم در همان پستى كه تيم ملى از او استفاده مى كند، استفاده كند كه ايشان نيز وعده همكارى دادند. سرمربى تيم ملى همچنين با اشاره به بيك زاده گفت: درباره هاشم بيك زاده هم بايد بگويم كه پاى تخصصى او پاى راست است و از او در دفاع راست تيم ملى استفاده مى كنيم، ضمن اينكه صحبت هايى هم با صمد مرفاوى داشته ايم كه او نيز در استقلال از بيك زاده در دفاع راست استفاده كند

[yashar_fasihnia]

btw, another pathetic totally poor game by beygzadeh today..
this guy is so slow mentally, its unbelievable!

[yashar_fasihnia]

I am not saying Baykzadeh is a savior for the TM, but he has good size, fairly decent crossing (at the Asian level), good shooting ability, great stamina or participate actively in both offense and defense.

i think we can say the same more or less about sattar zare as well and he was at best average as well.

beygzadeh putting his head down and kicking the ball 10 meters ahead of him and then trying to run and get it again, that too with his slow speed, is something he does even in esteghlal repeatedly.

poor guy, he works hard, but not smart. if it wasnt for his good size which helps him in tackling and his defense duties, i wouldnt want to see him anywhere close to TM or even esteghlal. unfortunately, we are so limited in options that we have to settle down for him or others of similar standards..

[Ali Chicago]

....and by god its frustrating to see beygzadeh play. he is just a huge mass of muscles and bones with slow legs and even a slower head who just puts his head down and "tries to" run to overtake his man and causes a turn over everytime!
....

Forcasting the future is a huge risk and unscientific thing. However, I beleive you are way too fast to write him down.

Not everyone in our team needs to be Ali Karimi and great dirbbler and all that. On top of that, a TM player needs a few games in order to gain confidence. The whole team sucked, we even sucked in Tehran (thank god Nekoonam scored a goal and we got three points). Baykzadeh came and played like less than 30 minutes and he is a LB mind you, not a center forward or central midfielder who impacts the game a lot.

I am not saying Baykzadeh is a savior for the TM, but he has good size, fairly decent crossing (at the Asian level), good shooting ability, great stamina or participate actively in both offense and defense.

[yashar_fasihnia]

lol......
mobali played 2 poor games past 2 games. he wasnt anything spectacular against bosnia either but as usual, the same people hyped his performance! so i am used to his performances and my sayings and didnt need to get it off my chest. i think it was some others who needed to realize he isnt iran's saviour. but i doubt that person(s) saw that or will even see it anytime soon...

thankyou for reminding me the whole team played poorly, cos clearly in my post i forgot about it and i DIDNT explicitly mention this point

and yea, who u comparing shojaei's heading ability with? daei and hashemian who dont play anymore? or ansarifard, khalili, meydavoudi and borhani who are actually the alternatives available and are all oliver bierhoffs of iran?
indeed, 'nough said!

[Doctor DOOM]

^ heh.
thank god mobaali played poorly in this game so you could finally get this off ur chest.
and lets not remind his decent previous games.
let us also forget the WHOLE team player disastrously, be it the iranian league or those outside it.

and the formation is still one of the main culprits as demonstrated by the hapless ansarifard who was stranded up front.
it's a good thing almost every expert they have on the show point out the OBVIOUS on this formation too and yet some of us are deep into our personal issues.
they all agree the formation is not suitable for our team and we dont have the right players for it. even taghavi, during jordan-iran game pointed it out.
and yet ....

as for shojaei scoring, I dont know if I shd laugh or take it seriously. hosseini also scored a few goals. does than mean he's a good striker? azizi also scored a couple of headers. does that mean azizi was a good aerial striker ? daei also dribbled a few players in the box. does that mean he's a rival to karimi?
'nough said

[yashar_fasihnia]

thank god shojaei was not there yesterday and he was busy scoring against valencia ON A HEADER (somethine he apparently sux in), so we cant use him as a scape goat and blame him for our failure!

thank god mobali started and played for wat, 60 minutes until the point even the commentator was frustrated and eventually said mobali needs to be subbed out! thank god, he played in his natural position, as attaking midfielder in the center of the field, and we saw the "NUMEROUS" left and right footed shots he took all on goal and all the threats he caused with his shots on goal, so we cant blame TM's failure on his exclusion! and before some try to deviate and say others like khalatbari and heydari didnt do anything better, i will say i totally agree and they sucked too, but all this fuss over the years wasnt made over the exclusion of these other players as it was made to mobali.
so can we now agree that mobali is just another talented iranian player but nothing extra ordinary???

and by god its frustrating to see beygzadeh play. he is just a huge mass of muscles and bones with slow legs and even a slower head who just puts his head down and "tries to" run to overtake his man and causes a turn over everytime!

so i guess now we can put all the blame on the system being 4-2-3-1!

but atleast for now, once again, it is proven that inclusion of shojaei as our striker or exclusion of mobali from the team doesnt turn things around 180 degrees!

soon, we will also see that 4-2-3-1 is not the major reason for TM's failures and i hope we finally learn to stop looking for such superficial reasons to either deliberatly or unknowingly put down coaches and create so much noise!

[Ali Chicago]

precisely my point and i totally agree with this formation discussions being overblown specially since its the millionth time people are openning such threads and bringing up the same discussions and its the same arguments, same examples, same theories over and over again.
can anyone else be sure that had Ghotbi played 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 in the qualifiers or even recent matches, the results would have been different (or better for that matter)?
we have seen good and bad results for both, so to say something like 4-2-3-1 has been a repeated failure and doesnt suit iranian football is not a legitimate argument AT ALL, specially without enough solid statistics and proof!
this is nothing more than a simple "Grass is greener on the other side" scenario.

I agree with your post whole heartedly. Our football at senior level is going downhill pretty fast. There are lots of things wrong, many of them much more important than 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-5-2. if we solved those, then we may need to worry more about tactical efficiency of 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-5-2.

[Ali Chicago]

[QUOTE=zzgloo;1496009]

In 4-2-3-1 certain type of players are needed. QUOTE]
Ali Jaan......., What makes you so certain that is the case ?.......
and what makes you say, the other systems do not, and only this one requires certain players.......
You and Payman,pass this stage of explaining so fast, and get to other parts of explaining............,as if it is so obviouse,....it may be to you, but not to all....
No system, in football ,..is conditional.....other wise, it would have been called strategy,not system.

Bahram Jaan,

I didn't say in other systems you don't need the certian type of players. If you read my post, you see I mentioned having two good winger like Kia and Minavand (for a 3-5-2) in WC 98. EVERY SYSTEM NEEDS CERTIAN TYPE OF PLAYERS.

For example in 4-2-3-1 the centerforward role is well defined. The centerforward in this system (based on limited reading I have done), is a players who is great in the air, can bring the ball down, hold on to the ball, under pressure until the 3 supporting midfielder add up. On top of it he has great sense of positioning in order to situate himself well on blind spots of the defense (since there is one classic forward in this system). Does Iran has some one with those qualities? Is Ansarifard, Borhani, Maydavoodi, Khatatbari, Gholamreza Rezai, even Hashemian any of them fits the bill? My opinion is no.

Every other 9 positions need certian type of characterristics in the players who play in the respective posts.

To reiterate every system requires having certian type of players. If the team doesn't have those type of players who fits the classic description and still insist to play certain system has underutilized its resources (to say the least), if not that coach is either inexperienced or making a huge mistake.