What do you prefer? [Old Thread Revisited]

[Doctor DOOM]

My ... "obsession" has less to do with the numbers 4-4-2, and MORE to do with the fact that we are incapable of using all the pitch and because we dont utilize the opponent's 1/3, we find it that much harder to make head way and score goals.

If we continue to keep central mids on the right and left, all we do is make defending against us easier for the opponents. all they need to do is bunch their defenders together and play a compact defense. they know their side defenders are never gonna get stretched or pulled wide by our RM and LM's.
That way, they can outnumber and out-muscle the SINGLE forwards we keep as a token striker.

tell me THIS very thing is not happening in TM games.



also, with regard to the forward line, it has less to do with the numbers on the paper, and more to do with numbers on the pitch.


now, you want to call is "width" or "formation" ( 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, .. ) or whatever you may, I dont care. the FACT is that we have chosen not to use all the pitch and restrict our options to just a few down the middle forays!
Ever wonder why our strikers find it so DAMN HARD to score goals ????



what I'm saying is use whatever system, whatever formation, ... you want. as long as you do it correctly , with the right players and as long as it OPENS NEW & MORE DOORS to the team .
Not close some of the already open ones like doing away with width up front.
========================================

and I really dont know why we go on questioning Kia's "interest" in football.
unless he's said "I'm not interested in football", we dont have much else to make such claims. do we?
All we have is that in his GERMAN ( Not Iranian ) club, he is not getting much playtime becoz he has a YOUNGER european rival who may be doing far better than him in the club.
how on earth does that translate to kia's disinterest in football is beyond me.
anyone care to explain this peculiar translation, logically ?
perhaps bahram jan or anyone else who talks about his "possible disinterest", can tell us how they reached this conclusion.
unless he's phoned us and has personally told us he isnt excited about football anymore.

I'm not saying he is interested, neither disinterested.
All I'm asking is based on what facts you ppl keep on questioning his "interest" in football??

afterall, if we HAVE TO question ppl's interest in football, there are FAR MORE players who can be questioned before we reach Kia's name.
VH for example.
between the two, which one is ALWAYS READY to come back to Iran and play at TM?
between the two which one has shown to come back from dull periods and regain his post at his club?

are we going to question every player's "interest in football" when he gets benched, from now on ?

[Martin-Reza]

No offense, but I really sometimes wnoder how every player who gets into PP or SS is suddenly hyped. Mohammad really is a joke of a player an absolute weakpoint in PP. Same was with Masoud Zarei. An absolutely brainless player who had one somewhat acceptable game and suddenly people claimed he would be the new rightback solution.

I take any bet you want that Mohammad will never earn a single cap. No matter under which coach. Just because someone is running near the sideline it doesn't make him the new Kia.

Dr. Doom aziz, you seem to have a slight obsession of the classic 4-4-2 and is deserpately trying to announce every winger as the new Mahdavikia we are looking for. But we aren't looking for a new Kia, there are other systems than the classic wide 4-4-2 and being RM is a very different job in some of them. I prefer less width in midfield and players like Shojaei and Khalatbari playing, who are among the best we currently have, rather than imposing a system we need to rely on second rate wingers like Heydari or even third or dourth rate wingers like Mohammad.

[zzgloo]

ايراناينت هافبكورد راخت فرانكفورت كه بيش از 11 سال از حضورش در سطح اول فوتبال آلمان مي گذرد، ي تيم فوتبال براي دويست و پنجاهمين مرتبه در رقابت هاي بوندس ليگا به ميدان رفت. به گزارش مهر، هفته بيست و يكم رقابت هاي بوندس ليگا با برگزاري 7 ديدار پيگيري شد كه در يكي از اين ديدارها تيم فوتبال اينتراخت در زمين كالسروهه به پيروزي يك بر صفر دست يافت.در اين بازي مهدي مهدوي كيا هافبك ايراني تيم فوتبال اينتراخت پس از چهار هفته دوري در تركيب ثابت اين تيم حضور داشت .
مرد شماره 15 تيم اينتراخت كه براي هفتمين مرتبه در ليگ آلمان براي تيم اينتراخت به ميدان رفت، در دوازدهمين سال حضورش در رقابت هاي بوندس ليگا، موفق به ثبت ركورد 250 بازي در اين مسابقات شد، ستاره ايراني شاغل در بوندس ليگا در اين سال ها پيراهن سه تيم بوخوم، هامبورگ و اينتراخت فرانكفورت را برتن كرده و ضمن انجام 250 مسابقه، موفق به ثبت 29 گل، 47 پاس گل و كسب 15 اخطار و 2 اخراج در اين رقابت ها شده است.

I wonder if he still gets excited playing football.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i dont think that his defensive capabilities are that good for RB, but neither are heydari's in my opinion...

i think both mohammad and heydari are more productive in their offensive moves, one with his dashing speed and energetic runs, the other with his accurate crosses and dribblings... hence i would like seeing them being tried on the right side infront and not as RB..

[Doctor DOOM]

^ a very good option for the RB post.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i realy like alireza mohammad as well.
he is a very good fighter who runs for 90 minutes and is quite fast and technical, reminds me of kia's younger years when he used to make those 30 - 40 yard dashes, dribbling past opponents and entering the penalty area or crossing for his team mates.
the only problem is his IQ isnt that high, and that maybe cos of his lack of experience.

[Doctor DOOM]

Heydari should be tested at least as much as GholamNejad has...

exactly my sentiments.

and the same thing was happening when zareh was getting the nod at LB, while more deserving playees were either overlooked or given 45 minutes or just 1 game to ..... to do what? .... to tear the world's arse within those few minutes, perhaps score 8 goals, save 5 goals and give 7 assists ???
and if they didnt tear the world's and its cousin's arse in that 1 game, then they were either relegated to the bench or were struck off !!!!

yet, an undeserving zareh got to start game ( and fail ) after game ( and fail ) after game ( and fail ) and was given the benefit of the doubt on countless occasions !!!!!!

far too many players have been the victim of such partial and unfair attitude by coaches.

[IranJavidan]

If Khosrow Heydari gets the same kind of trust that Mayeli Kohan placed in Mahdavikia when he was young, then I doubt that we will have to worry about the right falnk for many years to come.

He was out of Esteghlal for one game and we were struggling. He came back, assisted, and we won a very important match.

Heydari should be tested at least as much as GholamNejad has...

Compared to the younger Kia:

- He's slower, but just a little bit
- Is more technical
- Is superior defensively
- Can play as an RB without any problems
- Has a weaker shot than him.

Overall, I think that he should definitely be used in more matches. Especially since it appears that Daei frowns down upon the likes of Kaemian, and other UAE-based players.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ you know as well as anyone else a player like khalatbari would serve the team best when he is behind the two strikers as an offensive mid.

his flanks job hasnt been adequate. he rarely crosses and his defending isnt good enough. a typical offensive mid kind of player.

[Martin-Reza]

What about Khalatbari as replacement?

[Doctor DOOM]

to make my stance clear on Kia, I'll just say this:

If we find a suitable alternative who DOES what kia does with similar quality, precision & frequency, I'm all for keeping kia on the bench.
But the only player I can think of who has the capability & skills to do that is on Daei's black list ( kazemian ) . and all ...I mean ALL the alternatives we've seen at TM under daei have been sub-par and inferior to Kia.

hell, if g-nejad could slowly learn to use the opponents' 1/3 well and give some width to the team and gets to cross frequently and with precision, I dont see why he shdnt be kept. But the fact is he hasnt done any of the above ... either properly or frequently enough.
hence the question mark remains and we still bring up Kia's name!

apart from g-nejad who may still have the potential, others like ando, sadeghi, shojaei, zareh havent come even close to kia's standards and work rate!
heidari is a good option too. But he hasnt been trusted either !!

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and I dotn just say "they suck".
I look for different tasks and see how they perform those tasks and then give the opinion.

g-najed, while knowing how to defend and may cover this task well, he comes up short in crossing, and use of pitch.
ando, even worse than g-najed.
sadeghi did none of the tasks properly either.
shojaei can pass and his forward moves may be fine, but his defending is sub-par.
this is why none of the alternatives have been able to fill his gap and we still need someone like kia ( if not kia ) to play in RM.

[Martin-Reza]

^ I agree pretty much with what you are saying (generally and about Kia), although I wouldn't go as far as saying Kia's TM career is or should be over, but he is no must-starter anylonger, or at least currently.

The thread is both about the general question what's better and Kia's case in specific as well. The reason this is not solely about Kia is, that one can argue about the strength of the alternatives, one sees them as good players, the next one thinks they suck and argues that regardless of how bad Kia could play, he'd still be better than those alternatives. So beside the Kia issue, the general question is interesting as well.

[zzgloo]

Martin jaan....I still do not know the thrust of your thread.......Is it a question in general ?, or is it about Kia ?
Kia to me, has become a family man, and enjoys his life in frankfurt and celebrity status......he very much goes to work, now a days, to " Punch in & punch out " !!!.......he No longer gets excited as much any more.
I can n't believe myself saying this...But his time with TM has gone by !
...................

But,if we talk in general.......that quality for a deffensive player and a goal keeper is a +, but is not so, for other positions.

[Martin-Reza]

^ I wouldn't say someone not "adventurous" enough for Germany is still adventurous enough for Iran. Actually our players usually take much more risk than Germans, who are much more afraid of turnovers. I agree that we are not on German standards in most aspects of the game and that Kia is superior to all alternatives in some of those aspects, but in risk taking (which isn't necessarily a positive thing) we are surely not behind them.

Kia has become a solid player, almost mistakeless but almost without any surprising offensive actions. Maybe that comes from lacking match praxis mostly, but the way he repeatedly played for Frankfurt I must say I am on one hand worried that he won't be able to impress his coach like that and on the other hand must say he is not the player TM needs when desperately looking for a goal. If it's about keeping posession and avoiding turnovers, in this shape he's the man, but for creating trouble in the opponent's defense I have understanding for a coach who relies on younger players for that.

And this is not just about one game. As you can see I already noticed this last year, repeatedly noticed it since then, noticed it again on Saturday and quite obviously other people are seeing it like that also.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I dont see why we shd take ONE game and ONE statement as gospel and rule that since Kia wasnt adventurous in his German club, he would be useless in IRAN !!

even if he's lost his pace, he's speedy enough for the likes of shojaei or g-nejad. as for his other attributes like crossing and passing, he is better than the players we're currently using at TM.
if he's not adventurous enough for the germans, in Iran, his level and standards are high enough. And I'm sure in Iran, he is more resposnsible and more commanding on the pitch and acts more daring. testament of his goal against N korea where he was found in the middle of the korean's defense.

sorry, but I dont see how relevant it is to the plight of TM's right side.