CQ Iran Assessment Thread! (Mature Non-Emotional Discussion)

[rightoussoul]

- According to pro crowed ; the Japan loss was not because of Quiroz but due to mental lapse of players. However winning against Morocco was not because of an extremely lucky own goal. That was because of Quiroz's tactical genius. Tactical genius that other than the early Azmoun chance against Morocco failed to create any real chances from open play against all of the other teams we played.

You won't create chances when your team can't make 5 passes in a row! Maybee in 8 years he should have teached his team to put 5 passes together instead of teaching our "best forwards" to play defense in our box.

-It was Quiroz's tactical genius that made Beiravand save that penalty against Ronaldo, it was also his tactical genius that got us that very controversial penalty against Portugal to get that tie that we were so proud of (including me)


- Under quiroz although we got results against Asian team's we were almost always outplayed by tier one teams. In my 30 years of watching TM only under quiroz were we outplayed by UAE, Qatar, Ouzbékistan and etc..

- We were not the best team in Asia under Quiroz and haven't been the best in a really long time. The only difference is that in 1996-1998 we were actually offensive and played some nice attacking soccer.

-Our best WC performance was by FAR 1998, where we beat USA by playing nice football and actually creating chances. We also lost to Yugoslavia a dark horse to win the Cup by a, single goal that was due to Nima Nakisa badly judging the free kick! We even had our chances against Yugoslavia.

- He alledgely discovered Azmoun and Taremi (which he didn't), who many claim are our best forwards ever, but he had them in our own box defending with the other 9 players all game.

-Iranians love to discount Iran and other Iranians somehow as a nation we shouldn't expect to put 5 passes togather at a world cup things that Peru, Morrocoo, and Panama did. I won't even mention Japan and Korea who brought alot of joy to Asians for the honorable way they played and WON!

News flash! Iran and Iranians are very talented, they can send satellites to space, they can withstand horrendous sanctions for 40 Years.

Most of the countries we live in around the world would collapse after a year! They are successful every where they go! In those same 8 years they win Asian Basketball and Volleyball but we are somehow "unrealistic" to expect our soccer team to put 5 passes together! All of our accomplishments have been made despite the Mullahs as well!





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[mahestan]

- According to pro crowed ; the Japan loss was not because of Quiroz but due to mental lapse of players. However winning against Morocco was not because of an extremely lucky own goal. That was because of Quiroz's tactical genius. Tactical genius that other than the early Azmoun chance against Morocco failed to create any real chances from open play against all of the other teams we played.

You won't create chances when your team can't make 5 passes in a row! Maybee in 8 years he should have teached his team to put 5 passes together instead of teaching our "best forwards" to play defense in our box.

-It was Quiroz's tactical genius that made Beiravand save that penalty against Ronaldo, it was also his tactical genius that got us that very controversial penalty against Portugal to get that tie that we were so proud of (including me)


- Under quiroz although we got results against Asian team's we were almost always outplayed by tier one teams. In my 30 years of watching TM only under quiroz were we outplayed by UAE, Qatar, Ouzbékistan and etc..

- We were not the best team in Asia under Quiroz and haven't been the best in a really long time. The only difference is that in 1996-1998 we were actually offensive and played some nice attacking soccer.

-Our best WC performance was by FAR 1998, where we beat USA by playing nice football and actually creating chances. We also lost to Yugoslavia a dark horse to win the Cup by a, single goal that was due to Nima Nakisa badly judging the free kick! We even had our chances against Yugoslavia.

- He alledgely discovered Azmoun and Taremi (which he didn't), who many claim are our best forwards ever, but he had them in our own box defending with the other 9 players all game.

-Iranians love to discount Iran and other Iranians somehow as a nation we shouldn't expect to put 5 passes togather at a world cup things that Peru, Morrocoo, and Panama did. I won't even mention Japan and Korea who brought alot of joy to Asians for the honorable way they played and WON!

News flash! Iran and Iranians are very talented, they can send satellites to space, they can withstand horrendous sanctions for 40 Years.

Most of the countries we live in around the world would collapse after a year! They are successful every where they go! In those same 8 years they win Asian Basketball and Volleyball but we are somehow "unrealistic" to expect our soccer team to put 5 passes together! All of our accomplishments have been made despite the Mullahs as well!





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Oh yea 1996-1998 we played offensive attacking football so much that we dominated the competition to the point that it required us to win on away goal rules against Australia @ MCG on the pure luck that some wacko jumped and tore the net, resulting in the game stopping and TM being able to regroup.

[perspolis#1]

- According to pro crowed ; the Japan loss was not because of Quiroz but due to mental lapse of players. However winning against Morocco was not because of an extremely lucky own goal. That was because of Quiroz's tactical genius. Tactical genius that other than the early Azmoun chance against Morocco failed to create any real chances from open play against all of the other teams we played.

You won't create chances when your team can't make 5 passes in a row! Maybee in 8 years he should have teached his team to put 5 passes together instead of teaching our "best forwards" to play defense in our box.

-It was Quiroz's tactical genius that made Beiravand save that penalty against Ronaldo, it was also his tactical genius that got us that very controversial penalty against Portugal to get that tie that we were so proud of (including me)


- Under quiroz although we got results against Asian team's we were almost always outplayed by tier one teams. In my 30 years of watching TM only under quiroz were we outplayed by UAE, Qatar, Ouzbékistan and etc..

-

I would recommend rewatching Spain and Morocco games

Morocco: Unorthodox formation by CQ and we scrambled for 15 minutes. After that Morocco was done. We had both individual and collective performances. In any elite team, Azmoun puts that chance away and it would be a more deserved victory.

Spain: I don't believe Iran could go toe to toe with them. No, thats not an insult to Iran or Iranians( whom I love dearly) but because Spain is a better version of our strengths as a football nation. Iranians are good at golkuchik but so are the Spanish. They can keep possession and one of our weaknesses historically is getting wrecked on counters. Nothing wrong with how CQ setup. If you watch the game again, we had the better chances, including one Ansarifard shot the announcer thought went in(sidenetting), Ezatollahis offside goal, Azmoun almost reaching Amiris cross, and Taremi missing a header from pointblank and putting it over the bar

[rightoussoul]

Oh yea 1996-1998 we played offensive attacking football so much that we dominated the competition to the point that it required us to win on away goal rules against Australia @ MCG on the pure luck that some wacko jumped and tore the net, resulting in the game stopping and TM being able to regroup.

Thank you for proving my point.

I never said they were not lucky in Melbourn but they could have also beat Australia in Iran instead of tying. They still scored three goals against the Australia of Mark Viduka, Harry Kewell, Vidmar, and Bosnich!

For the pro Quiroz crowed Iran was lucky to qualify for the world cup in 1998. But it was Quiroz the master tactician, that forced the Korean defender to make that horrible mistake that led to Gucci's goal!

It was also his tactics that forced the Moroccan defender to score that own goal, it was also because of him that Beiravand saved that penalty!



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[Adesor Vafaseya]

But it was Quiroz the master tactician, that forced the Korean defender to make that horrible mistake that led to Gucci's goal!

Actually that one was tactic and also a repeated tactic CQ used vs Far Eastern teams and their defenders.
We scored a similar goal vs China in AC2019, the first goal with Azmoun's forward push vs Chinese defender to set up the ball for a goal.
The Chinese defender reacted exactly like the Korean defender. This is a weak point of Far Eastern defenders, that was well analyzed by TM"s coaching staff.

You can see both of these occasions in the below 2 videos and compare:

vs China 1st goal. Watch min 0:58

vs Korea, the goal you were referring to

[mehdi13]

That ‘tactic’ is called bezan ziresh and we knew how to do it before Queiroz. It is an Iranian specialty. And may I add how pathetic it was that we needed it to beat China...

[tooleh khers]

If Iran has never been to the round of 16 why would qualifying to it be a reasonable expectation? Let alone that in a group with Spain and Portugal. Each of those Asian countries you listed HAVE reached the R16. So expecting a repeat is more understandable.
As for qualifying for the world cup... if we exclude both world cups in the 80s(due to the war and being forced out) we onyl qualified for 3 out of 7 world cups from 1974 to 2010. Given those numbers, qualifying to the world cup still counts as an achievement. Qualifying to two back to world cups has not been done in our history and was a sign of progress.
Wilmots did ruin this legacy by putting us in a hole and losing to teams that CQ's Iran would never lose to in a group stage format.

Because you strive for more and having ambitions of advancing is not out of our reach. If CQ is going to get the same results as everyone else then what advances have we made with him? Your comparison of world cup qualification is not a fair one as conditions differ from number of spots to groups to investment. It is not such a great accomplishment to qualify from one of the easiest world cup qualification groups with Iran. We are expected to qualify ahead of Uzbekistan and Qatar. This is what many are missing in their analysis. We simply are being subjective rather than objective. We have people using the words "phenomenal" and "revolutionize" Iranian football but his results certainly do not justify such words. What about an all out defensive tactic is revolutionizing Iran football? I know people keep throwing out he fixed our shattered defense argument but this is certainly not the case if we look at it historically. Yes historically Iran football has always had a good defense and we have had campaigns were allowed goal was minimal in the past and we did so with structure and not sheer numbers of defenders in the box.

If his results were "phenomenal" and if he "revolutionized" our football we would need to see things we have not done before like an advancement in a world cup which we are the only ones not having done so which shows it is very feasible. Is our football that much below other Asian powers that they can have goals of advancement and we cannot? In any of these arguments made for CQ our level of football is always lowered to put him on a pedestal. We had our opportunity in 2014 and failed to materialize. Had he gone to a Asian cup final or advanced from a group we could certainly make that argument for him, even I had a positive view of him as posted to the point of spam in these threads but once his final report card was issued there was nothing substantial to justify the praise. Also the discipline which we all gave him credit for fell apart when it mattered and under pressure. This is not even mentioning his poor attitude and unprofessional conduct during important moments. From his first Asian Cup to his last. Embarrassed us multiple times for payment issues, uniform issues, sox issues...etc.

[tooleh khers]

- According to pro crowed ; the Japan loss was not because of Quiroz but due to mental lapse of players. However winning against Morocco was not because of an extremely lucky own goal. That was because of Quiroz's tactical genius. Tactical genius that other than the early Azmoun chance against Morocco failed to create any real chances from open play against all of the other teams we played.

You won't create chances when your team can't make 5 passes in a row! Maybee in 8 years he should have teached his team to put 5 passes together instead of teaching our "best forwards" to play defense in our box.

-It was Quiroz's tactical genius that made Beiravand save that penalty against Ronaldo, it was also his tactical genius that got us that very controversial penalty against Portugal to get that tie that we were so proud of (including me)


- Under quiroz although we got results against Asian team's we were almost always outplayed by tier one teams. In my 30 years of watching TM only under quiroz were we outplayed by UAE, Qatar, Ouzbékistan and etc..

- We were not the best team in Asia under Quiroz and haven't been the best in a really long time. The only difference is that in 1996-1998 we were actually offensive and played some nice attacking soccer.

-Our best WC performance was by FAR 1998, where we beat USA by playing nice football and actually creating chances. We also lost to Yugoslavia a dark horse to win the Cup by a, single goal that was due to Nima Nakisa badly judging the free kick! We even had our chances against Yugoslavia.

- He alledgely discovered Azmoun and Taremi (which he didn't), who many claim are our best forwards ever, but he had them in our own box defending with the other 9 players all game.

-Iranians love to discount Iran and other Iranians somehow as a nation we shouldn't expect to put 5 passes togather at a world cup things that Peru, Morrocoo, and Panama did. I won't even mention Japan and Korea who brought alot of joy to Asians for the honorable way they played and WON!

News flash! Iran and Iranians are very talented, they can send satellites to space, they can withstand horrendous sanctions for 40 Years.

Most of the countries we live in around the world would collapse after a year! They are successful every where they go! In those same 8 years they win Asian Basketball and Volleyball but we are somehow "unrealistic" to expect our soccer team to put 5 passes together! All of our accomplishments have been made despite the Mullahs as well!





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Well said! all great points. The main caveat of all the CQ praise is that we must first lower our level of football and everything else then we must apply a recency bias and exaggerate that one time UAE took a point from us for the first time in our history in official matches and make claims that we always struggled against Arabs. Worth mentioning that the Arabs we struggled against were not UAE, Qatar and even Bahrain but rather Saudi and Iraq which CQ did not do well against. The performance metrics for CQ are quite subjective. He played result oriented football without exceeding or even meeting expectation and he certainly did not pass the eye test neither.

[tooleh khers]

Actually that one was tactic and also a repeated tactic CQ used vs Far Eastern teams and their defenders.
We scored a similar goal vs China in AC2019, the first goal with Azmoun's forward push vs Chinese defender to set up the ball for a goal.
The Chinese defender reacted exactly like the Korean defender. This is a weak point of Far Eastern defenders, that was well analyzed by TM"s coaching staff.

You can see both of these occasions in the below 2 videos and compare:

vs China 1st goal. Watch min 0:58

vs Korea, the goal you were referring to

I believe the tactic is called kick and chase or bekesh ziresh. Kick it down the field then chase the defenders and pressure them and hope they make a mistake. I think I actually prefer the aliasghari tactic which is get people in the box then cross it in from anywhere on the field and hope it falls to a player or someone heads it in. I believe this suits us better against weaker opposition.

[Bladsville]

Embarrassed us multiple times for payment issues, uniform issues, sox issues...etc.

How were these CQs fault?

[nisfejahan]

vs Korea, the goal you were referring to

Pressuring defenses is a very well known tactic that is used day in day out by many teams. Iran (CQ) employed it to perfectionin the game vs. SK.

Somewhat unrelated, but Gucci's goal, from a historic point of view, is no less than Azizi's goal vs the Aussies. Yes, Azizi's goal was made more memorable because of a lot of drama associated with that game. But Gucci, scoring the one chance he had on goal, in a do or die game, away at SK in hostile environment, sealing Iran's direct qualification as the top in our group, was truly phenomenal.

[mahestan]

Thank you for proving my point.

I never said they were not lucky in Melbourn but they could have also beat Australia in Iran instead of tying. They still scored three goals against the Australia of Mark Viduka, Harry Kewell, Vidmar, and Bosnich!

For the pro Quiroz crowed Iran was lucky to qualify for the world cup in 1998. But it was Quiroz the master tactician, that forced the Korean defender to make that horrible mistake that led to Gucci's goal!

It was also his tactics that forced the Moroccan defender to score that own goal, it was also because of him that Beiravand saved that penalty!



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I didn't prove your point. Yea TM scored three goals against Australia, after getting beaten by Japan. If we were so dominant, why did we end the first half against Japan 1 goal down, only to make up the difference in the 2nd half, and getting gassed by the 70th minute for Japan to score the equalizer? End up losing it in extra time when TM was clearly out of steam. If we were so dominant we should've beaten Japan. Our defense was so soorakh during the 1998 WCQ that only saving grace we had was hoping that TM could duke it out and score goals to make up the deficit before they were gassed out by the 75th minute. The joke was that TM's motor wouldn't start until we got scored on 1-2 goals, then pressing and hoping to make up the deficit while not getting scored on during a counter. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

CQ's tactic didn't make the Korean defender mess up for Gucci to score, but his tactics did make it so that we were not down a goal already, and instilled the discipline so that Gucci didn't slow down; followed through and used the opportunity. His tactics did make it so we were able to hold the fort for 30 minutes against an onslaught of Korean attacks, not forgetting Rahman Ahamdi's heroic double save on the goal line at the 75th minute.

Regarding Beiro's Ronaldo PK save, I give credit to CQ for sticking Beiro in the goal to make the save. While CQ's tactics didn't help Beiro make the PK save, he had enough of an eye to see that Beiro could be our #1 GK. There were so many posts, and comments on PFDC with fans being worried about who our keeper was going to be during WC2018, with many not seeing Beiro being up to the task, specially after his red card against Guam which resulted in Ezzatollah Pourghaz having to play as GK for the last 20 minutes of the game. So I give CQ credit for seeing Beiro's talents and capability, sticking him between the sticks on the world's highest footballing stage.

Remember when people were flipping out when CQ decided to stick Cheshmi as CB in the line up for the game against Morocco? Many of us didn't think Cheshmi was up to the task, but boy did he prove us wrong. Or when Cheshmi got injured and CQ made the change to Majid Hosseini? Who also performed admirably. When was the last time we had a such deep squad that our lineup could be changed on the fly? Clearly not in WC 1998 with Nakisa's blunder during the game against Yugoslavia which you pointed out.

CQ had his flaws, like for him to constantly calling up Shojaei well past his prime, or how hot headed he was, but he did a lot for TM. Sadly CQ didn't get us to any trophies, but lets give credit where credit is due.

[Ghermez Agha]

Pressuring defenses is a very well known tactic that is used day in day out by many teams. Iran (CQ) employed it to perfectionin the game vs. SK.

Somewhat unrelated, but Gucci's goal, from a historic point of view, is no less than Azizi's goal vs the Aussies. Yes, Azizi's goal was made more memorable because of a lot of drama associated with that game. But Gucci, scoring the one chance he had on goal, in a do or die game, away at SK in hostile environment, sealing Iran's direct qualification as the top in our group, was truly phenomenal.

One could argue this was equally dramatic. Son saying he was going to make Iranian “cry tears of blood” and choi saying that he hopes Uzbekistan wins and SK beats us so we don’t go on to the WC. There was LOTs of drama and pressure going into this match....my dad’s wife kept asking me every 2-3 mins of the game if I needed blood pressure pills or chai nabat to calm me down bc my face and body were just shaking for 90 mins straight.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I believe the tactic is called kick and chase or bekesh ziresh. Kick it down the field then chase the defenders and pressure them and hope they make a mistake. I think I actually prefer the aliasghari tactic which is get people in the box then cross it in from anywhere on the field and hope it falls to a player or someone heads it in. I believe this suits us better against weaker opposition.

whatever you call a tactic, there is a time and place to use them.
Point is it was used when needed and worked,

That ‘tactic’ is called bezan ziresh and we knew how to do it before Queiroz. ...

And yet, we were unable to qualify back to back to WCs before CQ.
Its not about a single tactic either though.

[Babak agha]

There is no doubt in my mind that CQ was/is a better coach than any of the other coaches we've had in recent memory. But that in my book doesn't make him a world class coach.