"Mame Baba Thiam" Thread

[hassonoo]

Again, for me personally and many Iranians, our national team should be only for people of Iranian heritage, Afghan immigrants should also be allowed as many of them are integrated into our society. Bottom line is, we are not a nation built on immigration like western countries, we have been a mixture of these Iranian ethnic groups for thousands of years, so it does not make sense for us to pull a Qatar.

I think a great point of pride for me and many other members on this forum is that, our national teams, regardless of the sport, have never naturalized foreign players, we have always competed with our own players. Similar to our clubs in the ACL, I am proud when Esteghlal, with 10 Iranian players, can outclass Al Ain who was ridden with South Americans

There is big difference between bringing players from outside of the country and giving them citizenship just to play for the NT and players that lived in a country for a long time that natually became citizens.
BTW some of these forign players speak the same level of farsi as ferydoon zandi did when he first joined the NT they probably lived longer in iran than zandi too.
aks your self what is really that defines being iranian, as you already said there is not a single answer as iranians are a mixture of different ethinic groups

[Keano]

Perfectly said. It's sort of like USA with many of its players.
I feel once you are a citizen, you have the rights of everyone else.

If we are going off the notion of being "naturalized" then Saman Ghoddos shouldn't be on TM since he was born in Sweden.

Sadly the truth is that we are an overly nationalistic and racist country (between all of us that is the reality) double standard applies to us in its entirety definition.

Some members claim because we have never naturalized foreign players, then we should keep it that way and stick with our traditions and traditional beliefs (extremists mentality) in other words due to nationalistic ideals nothing should change and improve with time.

Japan is a country with much much purer and intact ethnicity than that of ours, yet this naturalization issue has been a non issue for decades...

I am just stating my personal mind. Not too fond of traditionalism as I believe we should not stagnate and plateau due to traditional limitations/boundaries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ali alipour]

We never tried. He showed immense interest in becoming a citizen and playing for TM.
We're too racist and nationalist of a nation, to allow such practices being employed in our country. Something that has become a norm in today's world. We're too proud of a nation, disallowing other races getting what all civilized countries grant...

He never actually got citizenship just applied, and becuase he showed interest doesn't mean he deserved to get called up. This was at a time where Queiroz was bringing in young players to prep for the 2018 World Cup and Edinho was already 32/33. Edinho also came to Iran for the sole purpose of playing soccer. He wasn't raised in Iran, didn't immigrate with his family, didn't go to school in Iran etc. His situation is closer to what Qatar does and not immigrant nations like Germany, France etc.

I know it's a trendy thing nowadays for a lot of Iranian abroad to claim Iran is filled with just vile and racist people, but it isn't the answer to everything, especially not Edinho not playing for tm.

[irani8perspolis]

Sadly the truth is that we are an overly nationalistic and racist country (between all of us that is the reality) double standard applies to us in its entirety definition.

Some members claim because we have never naturalized foreign players, then we should keep it that way and stick with our traditions and traditional beliefs (extremists mentality) in other words due to nationalistic ideals nothing should change and improve with time.

Japan is a country with much much purer and intact ethnicity than that of ours, yet this naturalization issue has been a non issue for decades...

I am just stating my personal mind. Not too fond of traditionalism as I believe we should not stagnate and plateau due to traditional limitations/boundaries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You make valid points, however regarding your bolded point I don't agree. For me the same concept applies to management roles and other aspects of society where we may be inclined to bring a foreigner to do the job, instead of bringing in that foreigner to do a job in our country, we should bring the foreigner to teach an Iranian how to do that specific job, in short: I am in favour of using foreigners, as long as it is being used to increase our self reliance (teaching Iranians... etc.). For example, instead of our clubs attempting to buy players like Xavi or Snjeider, I would much rather have our clubs use that money instead to their youth academies so we have 10 high class Iranian players on each team, rather than 2 or 3 world class foreign superstars.

[Keano]

You make valid points, however regarding your bolded point I don't agree. For me the same concept applies to management roles and other aspects of society where we may be inclined to bring a foreigner to do the job, instead of bringing in that foreigner to do a job in our country, we should bring the foreigner to teach an Iranian how to do that specific job, in short: I am in favour of using foreigners, as long as it is being used to increase our self reliance (teaching Iranians... etc.). For example, instead of our clubs attempting to buy players like Xavi or Snjeider, I would much rather have our clubs use that money instead to their youth academies so we have 10 high class Iranian players on each team, rather than 2 or 3 world class foreign superstars.

First off let me thank you for keeping our discussion classy and in very courteous manner, rather than resorting to personal attacks and name callings.

Now back to the topic. No one here really suggested to bring in foreign players and naturalize them, for the sake of playing for TM, hell I would be the first to object that fashion of naturalization. What I have been saying is that if someone lives in the country, learns the language, respects the country and its people, and he lives long enough to go through the normal process and length of citizenship, and eventually obtains the citizenship, then he/she MUST possess and be granted the very exact same privileges every other citizen of the country. Otherwise it will be nothing short of discrimination/racism/Xenophobia etc.

A country either grants full citizenship with its entire package and privileges, or just does not naturalize anyone, PERIOD!

[Ghermez Agha]

There is big difference between bringing players from outside of the country and giving them citizenship just to play for the NT and players that lived in a country for a long time that natually became citizens.
BTW some of these forign players speak the same level of farsi as ferydoon zandi did when he first joined the NT they probably lived longer in iran than zandi too.
aks your self what is really that defines being iranian, as you already said there is not a single answer as iranians are a mixture of different ethinic groups

beautifully said. we are so intolerant of others - if a German was against an immigrant being in their NT they would be labeled as a nazi right wing racist but if we are on the subject of Iran, adopting a foreigner into our country is us turning into Qatar

[ali alipour]

beautifully said. we are so intolerant of others - if a German was against an immigrant being in their NT they would be labeled as a nazi right wing racist but if we are on the subject of Iran, adopting a foreigner into our country is us turning into Qatar

Because those people are against players born and raised in Germany just becuase they're not of German background. I don't see anyone complaining that Hosseini Kaebi is Arab or that Azmoun is Turkmen. If Queiroz called up Omid Singh I highly doubt people would storm the streets against his call up because he's half Indian. These players are comparable to situations like Germany, USA, etc, not Edinho who's call up would be identical to what Qatar does, who I'm sure you've complaint about and mocked many times.

[irani8perspolis]

Because those people are against players born and raised in Germany just becuase they're not of German background. I don't see anyone complaining that Hosseini Kaebi is Arab or that Azmoun is Turkmen. If Queiroz called up Omid Singh I highly doubt people would storm the streets against his call up because he's half Indian. These players are comparable to situations like Germany, USA, etc, not Edinho who's call up would be identical to what Qatar does, who I'm sure you've complaint about and mocked many times.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Hadi]

Mame Thiam is good. flashes of Ibrahim Toure (who i think was the best foreign player in our league ever)

[naderb94]

I am a fan of this thread and the discussions being brought up.
I remember a time when Issa Ndoye played for ZobAhan when came from 17 years up until 24.
He learned Farsi as well and I even believe he obtained Iranian citizenship. Someone like that should be deserving of a possible TM callup.

Even Padovani whose is not on Ndoye's level but pretty good, is getting close to that level.
I believe a full citizen should have the same rights as other Iranian citizens.

[AIrani]

This is a good thread and important to Iran and its national teams.

There are MANY issues. Players. Families. Coaches. Management. Pride (we say ghayrat), Privatization, and Money.

Iran is a good size country with passion for football. Most of us posting here have played football. We understand it and care for our National teams. Futsal, Beach soccer, and Volleyball teams have proven that Iranians can do well on international levels. I worked in Lima Peru. When it qualified, everybody was happy. This is national pride which cannot be bought by money.

Money and privatizations are very important which many people have not discussed. The world functions around money. Iranian teams must be in the hands of PEOPLE, not its government.

Coaches. Iran national team and clubs should use good foreign coaches who would work in Iran. They must be similar to CQ not Branko who does not fight IFF.

Players. AGE is very important. WHY bring in the likes of Snyder for few years? Uzbekistan learned a lesson not to bring old Brazilian players.

I have NO problem for anybody who wants to help Iran to be a part of our people. We should welcome and share our happiness and wealth with them. The reason I respect N. Korea and Syria is that in tough times they stayed by our side whereas Russia, China to name a few, took advantage of us. Even S. Korea has taken advantage of us in tough times.

[Keano]

Because those people are against players born and raised in Germany just becuase they're not of German background. I don't see anyone complaining that Hosseini Kaebi is Arab or that Azmoun is Turkmen. If Queiroz called up Omid Singh I highly doubt people would storm the streets against his call up because he's half Indian. These players are comparable to situations like Germany, USA, etc, not Edinho who's call up would be identical to what Qatar does, who I'm sure you've complaint about and mocked many times.

My man my man, You've mistaken ethnicity with nationality. I cannot believe that I reply to this post. Are you insinuating that anyone could even dare questioning the likes of Azmoun, Kaebi, Daei's rights to be considered Iranian or getting invited to TM? Are you serious even bringing this up as an example? Azmoun, Kaebi, Daei, Vouria Ghafouri, Karim Ansarifard and... are all Iranians of different ethnicities. The citizenship of anyone doubting that MUST be revoked. It's also ironic and disappointing to have so many members supporting your notion of citizenship and mixing up ethnicity with Nationality!!!

Once again, and I say this as my personal opinion, A citizenship is a citizenship, Once granted/born with, all rights of all other citizens MUST be equally applied to him/her. Any other treatment is absolutely discrimination/racism, PERIOD!

Either do not naturalize anyone, and/or if you naturalize, you cannot deny them of any of the rights other citizens benefit from!

[freak]

Iranian passport = equal rights as all Iranians (or maybe I should say equal rights denied). Anyway, I find it rather disturbing that more often than not, those invoking heritage, blood, and soil imagery are themselves living abroad as dual citizens.

Also, it's not pulling a Qatar if the player has been living/working in Iran for a number of years, is married to an Iranian (like Olerum and a few others are/were), and speaks the language. Qatar specifically target foreign players for naturalization and issue them passports before they've even set foot in the country, so false equivalence there.

I wonder if those taking issue with African players would object to having a Danish-born blond and blue-eyed player in TM if he was in the same exact situation as Olerum and company.

[irani8perspolis]

Iranian passport = equal rights as all Iranians (or maybe I should say equal rights denied). Anyway, I find it rather disturbing that more often than not, those invoking heritage, blood, and soil imagery are themselves living abroad as dual citizens.

Also, it's not pulling a Qatar if the player has been living/working in Iran for a number of years, is married to an Iranian (like Olerum and a few others are/were), and speaks the language. Qatar specifically target foreign players for naturalization and issue them passports before they've even set foot in the country, so false equivalence there.

I wonder if those taking issue with African players would object to having a Danish-born blond and blue-eyed player in TM if he was in the same exact situation as Olerum and company.

LOL so you try to paint me as someone as a racist against black people. I don't care if its iniesta who is begging to play on our national team or some random African, our NT should be for those of Iranian heritage.

[Nokhodi]

Irani8perspolis isn't saying that he doesn't want people of different skin colors in the team ... he is saying he doesn't want mercenaries who haven't tried integrating and learning our culture to be in the team.
He doesn't want a repeat of Qatar.