TM list november 2014

[K. Nader]

who had the better roster? GN or CQ ? very simple question

This has always been a funny topic for me (when looking at it from the perspective of those against CQ).

Many argue that the 2014 squad was as good as the 2006/2007 one. However, it's not - the 2006/2007 squad was miles ahead in individual talent. What makes the 2014 squad comparable is their discipline, organization, team work, and work ethic - all of which were introduced by CQ.

[Doctor DOOM]

I don't get it. You guys are saying that the Enayati, Khatibi combo was crap, right? Okay, let's go with that... That's pretty much all GN had to work with (plus an out of form Hashemian) and we scored 6 goals, advanced from a very tough group in 1st place and eventually bowed out of the tournament without a single loss in regulation time.

CQ has Gucci, Karim, Azmoun and JB at his disposal (all of whom are/were playing in Europe) + Shojaei who at the time had no European experience, but as you say is of La Liga caliber now. So it really shouldn't be a problem to expect a few more goals or to finish on top in such an easy group and to at least make it to ET or PK's in the quarters (i.e. don't register a loss in regulation time). Can we all agree with that?!

There is this separation from reality and presence among many fans that usually clouds their judgment and view of things.
You see many people bring excuses and reasoning that is mostly based on theories and what's on paper or pertains to he past ... all of which have very little to no relevance on TODAY'S matters.

The fact that they bring on age old, but flimsy argument of ''but he played in Europe'' as an explanation for the crumbling pile of mistakes that a player has become proves that.

Then there is another separation from reality when they bring up GN's Asia cup campaign. Aside from the very valid reasons you brought up, most fans either don't know or don't have the capability to comprehend different issues with regards to football. Perhaps because many haven't really played football. Or their FOOTBALLING experience is limited to Sunday friendly games between mates!

Not that I'm defending GN. But They bring in Malaysia game without ever considering the conditions of the game or tournament.
Are they aware of the weather conditions in Malaysia? I seriously doubt many have ever been to that side of the world. Let alone know what those conditions are. Nor have many of these chaps ever played in hot, humid conditions that truly saps one's energy. Especially those who are not used to such clime.
That game, in front of the HOME CROWD, in brutally humid and hot conditions was such a game where just about any team would run out of reserves very quickly in a match. So given the above, I'd not be too critical of a 2-0 win that not only clinched the group for us, but also allowed the team not to kill themselves on the pitch which would have meant a total drainage of energy for the more crucial knock out stage.

But these are issues that majority of fans don't consider or are unaware of. Hence these superficial comments about a match up that ON PAPER we should have raped a team like Malaysia.


So before we all make comments on things we don't know, it'd be prudent to pause, think or even spend a while to research on it before we embarrass ourselves.

[Doctor DOOM]

who had the better roster? GN or CQ ? very simple question

Simply, CQ has far far more experienced, exposed and talented squad than GN.
And by default, the expectations also must be more.

Then CQ himself comes with a whole lot of baggage (that many don't hesitate to use as a hammer to ram their arguments to silence people). But by the same token, the level of football and quality expected from him ought to be far superior to GN beyond comparison.

As the saying goes ; You can't have all the rights but none of the duties. Or in this case, all the benefits but none of the responsibilities.

One can spend very little money to buy a silly Toyota, and have little expectations of top notch quality or speed or luxury. And coming in 6th in races comes as little surprise.
But when you spend top dollars on a porsche, but still come in at 6th must compel you to really question matters.
So if we're supposed to accept coming at 6th rank, then why spend all that money on a porsche? A freaking crappy Toyota would have sufficed to get such low ranking.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ disclaimer: no offense to anyone who owns a Toyota, btw



What's even more shocking is perfectly sane, educated adults still try to sell the idea of ''coming up short with a porsche'' ... with no shame whatsoever !!!! That's the scariest of all issues here.


***********
Some say all this criticism for only a 3/4 player discrepancy is for nothing. I used to think that. Until we dig a little deeper to see if by leaving out certain players are we depriving the team of an entire alternative in attack or defense.

If we have two players whose style is very similar. And a coach picks one or then there, then the team is not deprived of an alternative. It's only a matter of taste. Some like X, some Y.
But if the coach entirely drops a certain style and does not include another player with such capabilities, then effectively he is depriving the team of that style and alternative.


As for the age argument, well what goes for Khalatbari, very easily goes for the miserable baggage of errors called shojaei too. The only difference is with Khalatbari we get a quick footed, extremely tricky and skillful player in pretty good form. While with shojaei, we get a year OLDER, but very slow, extremely error prone, killer of momentum.

If only stubbornness and the need to be ''name/fame victim'' wasn't there among us, we could see which pick would be the most logical.

[Keano]

Simply, CQ has far far more experienced, exposed and talented squad than GN.
And by default, the expectations also must be more.

I don't like the idea of comparing the players of different eras, as it's totally improper way of measuring the strength of each respective teams, however having read your above comment, made me wonder how the current TM players can possibly be claimed to be "far far more experienced, exposed and talented squad than" the likes of: Karimi, Zandi, Mahdavikia, Hashemian, Rahman Rezaei, and much fitter Nekounam, Andranik , Shojaei, and Jalal Hosseini who happened to be one of our top goal scorers of the tourney. Not to undermine Mehrzad Madanchi's great shape at the time.

Where and at what level those TM players of the 2007 AC were playing and compare it to that of today's. Simple as that!

Yes we do have some great prospects such as ARJ, Azmoun, but they're yet to be blossomed, discovered and recognized by some decent European clubs, and then once they reach teams like Bayern Munich, Hamburg, Charlton, Bochum etc. Then we may have a valid point to even think of comparing these 2 generations of players.

[ali alipour]

Apparently abdollahzadeh and saghebi are going to qatar with the u23 team. So im not really sure why queiroz called them up pretty much wasting two spots

[O-ZoNe]

As for Shojaei, I thought he played well against Argentina and made some great plays. Heydari is a bigger concern than Shojaei.

Agree with most of your post except this. At the Asian level Heydari's speed and wing play is much stronger than Shojaei's dribbling and slowing down of the game pace. Asian teams lack the speed, fitness, and stamina of most of the WC teams, and we should go at them hard. ARJ, Dejagah, Heydari, who ever is in should push the opposition back line and dictate the run of play in TM's favour.

[rugs]

Re: TM list november 2014

Agree with most of your post except this. At the Asian level Heydari's speed and wing play is much stronger than Shojaei's dribbling and slowing down of the game pace. Asian teams lack the speed, fitness, and stamina of most of the WC teams, and we should go at them hard. ARJ, Dejagah, Heydari, who ever is in should push the opposition back line and dictate the run of play in TM's favour.

Maybe, but Heydari was pretty poor against Qatar and was constantly being beat on the flank. At least in the case of UAE, their team is young and speedy. I would prefer KB to both.

But my main point was I thought Shojaie did well, especially against ARG while Heydari was our weakest player.

That said, I'm not too concerned about the group stages. If we can't make it out with either player then we have no business being there.

But at the later stages against tougher opponents I don't trust Heydari. I barely trust Shojaei.

Maybe Heydari is better against weaker competition, but I don't think he is against stronger teams as was evident in the WC.

[Camran khan]

Maybe, but Heydari was pretty poor against Qatar and was constantly being beat on the flank. At least in the case of UAE, their team is young and speedy. I would prefer KB to both.

But my main point was I thought Shojaie did well, especially against ARG while Heydari was our weakest player.

That said, I'm not too concerned about the group stages. If we can't make it out with either player then we have no business being there.

But at the later stages against tougher opponents I don't trust Heydari. I barely trust Shojaei.

Maybe Heydari is better against weaker competition, but I don't think he is against stronger teams as was evident in the WC.

I agree that Shojaei had a few good attacks, but he gave up a few very dangerous fouls as well, so I would call his game mediocre. Heydari probably was our weakest player in the the world cup, but honestly I see no need anywhere to change any of our back 4 (except for Pouladi who can't play for TM atm). Amir Hossein Sadegh and Jalal Hosseini did great as center backs, and Montazeri really impressed me as a right back.

[rugs]

Re: TM list november 2014

I agree that Shojaei had a few good attacks, but he gave up a few very dangerous fouls as well, so I would call his game mediocre. Heydari probably was our weakest player in the the world cup, but honestly I see no need anywhere to change any of our back 4 (except for Pouladi who can't play for TM atm). Amir Hossein Sadegh and Jalal Hosseini did great as center backs, and Montazeri really impressed me as a right back.

I agree, our backs were good.

I'm pretty sure JB and Dejagah will be our wings so no worries about Heydari or Shojaie anyway.

[Amin_]

Wtf is going on? People talking about GN? Lol...
Yes, the guy who didn't play Hash, the guy who didn't invite Zandi, the guy who used Fekri as a sweeper in TM!! The guy who played freindlies against Rah Ahan and couldn't beat them! The guy who brought so much SS vs PP hashiyeh into TM! Is this a joke? Are we really comparing that guy to CQ??

No-one in his right mind would want to have GN now (or ever) over CQ. GN is a thug, a laat, a moron whatever, agreed! A lot of people dislike him for whatever reasons, sure! But you have a really strange and almost scary fetish with him which to me looks more than a regular "dislike" of an average fan but rather something personal. It's getting almost to the levels of our dear ex-member Ala/Nakhl who also had a tendency to twist things around, blow everything up, exaggerate and even lie when it came down to GN.

For your information:
1) He did play Hashemian. Vahid played and scored in the away match against SK (1-1 last minute goal). He played against Syria (2-0 away win) and also against SK at home (2-0 win). The only game Vahid was not called up was against the minnows Taiwan where there was no need to bring him al the way over from Germany! He also feautured in all our AC games! The only times he was not called up was during unsignificant friendlies!

2) He did invite and even start Zandi! As a matter of fact Zandi was a key player in the AC and after Teymourian, Roudbarian, Karimi, Nekounam, Mahdavikia and Hosseini he had the most appearances (just behind Hashemian who started 6 times while Zandi had 5 + 1 substitution).

Zandi was a legionnaire back then and again for some unsignificant friendlies most legionaires weren't even called up!

3) He used Fekri as a sweeper (back then the best sweeper in Iran btw) in his first few games where he played the 3-5-2/3-4-3 systems. After our qualification, when he had more time to work with the team and to implement new tactics, he changed to a 4 back system and naturally did not call up Fekri anymore!

4) Friendly against Rah Ahan. Again blowing up of something so small and exaggerating to make a false point! lol Agha, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen who uses this "friendly", our very first under GN and that against an IPL team lol, to make some kind of a point! The fact that you need to bring up such a meaningless friendly over and over again says enough!

5) Don't remember which PP vs Esteghlal hashiyeh you are talking about! Perhaps hashiye that people like yourself created over nothing. Like I have shown you a few times before, players from Esteghlal were one of the less frequently called up players under GN and almsot no Esteghlali even featured at the AC (except for Talebloo's 2 minutes). On the other hand Pas had a lot of players called up! Don't know the amount for Perspolisi players tbh.


We know you hate GN (and for some weird reason you seem to be obsessed with him), but please don't blow things up, exaggerate and even lie to make a point. You know that we live in an era where with a few clicks we can find all the information and statistics we need, right? So please don't insult our intelligence!

[Abtin]

Baba gure pedare in selection. How come nobody in Iran speaks about the lack of friendlies and how it's gonna embarrass us?

[clipsport]

Yes I agree with Amin "underscore". Rugs you have an obsession with GN and also Khosrow Heydari. It's even worse than my thing with Stevie boy .

[rugs]

No-one in his right mind would want to have GN now (or ever) over CQ. GN is a thug, a laat, a moron whatever, agreed! A lot of people dislike him for whatever reasons, sure! But you have a really strange and almost scary fetish with him which to me looks more than a regular "dislike" of an average fan but rather something personal. It's getting almost to the levels of our dear ex-member Ala/Nakhl who also had a tendency to twist things around, blow everything up, exaggerate and even lie when it came down to GN.
For your information:
1) He did play Hashemian. Vahid played and scored in the away match against SK (1-1 last minute goal). He played against Syria (2-0 away win) and also against SK at home (2-0 win). The only game Vahid was not called up was against the minnows Taiwan where there was no need to bring him al the way over from Germany! He also feautured in all our AC games! The only times he was not called up was during unsignificant friendlies!
2) He did invite and even start Zandi! As a matter of fact Zandi was a key player in the AC and after Teymourian, Roudbarian, Karimi, Nekounam, Mahdavikia and Hosseini he had the most appearances (just behind Hashemian who started 6 times while Zandi had 5 + 1 substitution).
Zandi was a legionnaire back then and again for some unsignificant friendlies most legionaires weren't even called up!
3) He used Fekri as a sweeper (back then the best sweeper in Iran btw) in his first few games where he played the 3-5-2/3-4-3 systems. After our qualification, when he had more time to work with the team and to implement new tactics, he changed to a 4 back system and naturally did not call up Fekri anymore!
4) Friendly against Rah Ahan. Again blowing up of something so small and exaggerating to make a false point! lol Agha, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen who uses this "friendly", our very first under GN and that against an IPL team lol, to make some kind of a point! The fact that you need to bring up such a meaningless friendly over and over again says enough!
5) Don't remember which PP vs Esteghlal hashiyeh you are talking about! Perhaps hashiye that people like yourself created over nothing. Like I have shown you a few times before, players from Esteghlal were one of the less frequently called up players under GN and almsot no Esteghlali even featured at the AC (except for Talebloo's 2 minutes). On the other hand Pas had a lot of players called up! Don't know the amount for Perspolisi players tbh.
We know you hate GN (and for some weird reason you seem to be obsessed with him), but please don't blow things up, exaggerate and even lie to make a point. You know that we live in an era where with a few clicks we can find all the information and statistics we need, right? So please don't insult our intelligence!

First you seem to have a selective memory! Second, I didn't bring GN up. I am responding to those who did. And yes, I will always mention his blunders when his name comes up because I believe he is one of the main problems in our football. If you don't understand this yet then you might be blinded by your club loyalties. I would suggest you respond to those who brought his name up.

Second, your selective memory: GN didn't invite Zandi or Hash. There was even a PFDC petition about this. How you don't remember is beyond me. It wasn't until everyone in the press and players expressed outrage at TM and his selection of SS players like Fekri, that GN was forced to change his ways. He was on the brink of being fired.

You bring these same things up every time as if you have forgotten all that happened while GN was manager.

[Amin_]

lol sure, the "you must be blinded by your club loyalties"-card again

Anyway, like I said, Hashemian played in most important matches like the ACQ games (Syria, South Korea, except for the one against Taiwan) and of course all AC games. For the unimoportant little friendlies obviously he did not get called up. Still, despite this, after obvious players like Ando, Nekounam etc. he's still one of the most featured players.

Also, Zandi played in Cyprus back then and for a long time was out of form, next to the fact that the midfield was packed with players like Karimi, Ando, Nekounam, Mahdavikia etc.
If he really had something against Zandi he could have easily said "sorry, the 4 midfield spots are taken (by the players mentioned above)" and no-one would have argued over players like Karimi, Kia and Nekounam. Still GN found a way to play Zandi in the AC anyway and started him as a creative LB.

Anyway, the point is that a lot more happend during GN's era than the usual Rah Ahan friendly and all other little unsignificant stuff that you bring up everytime to blow little things up.