Coaching, Iran and TM

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    Coaching, Iran and TM

    I a sure those of you who know me for some time now know that it is my firm belief that on this ground this or that name is really not going to have that much of a difference in what we would see on the pitch from tm for the next few years the least to say.

    the interesting situation is that we are looking for foreigner coaches to come to Ian and sign mega dollars for a short period of time and then leave yet we can easily let go of the coaches tha have worked in Iran and have shown capabilities that can't be ignored.
    One such coach in my opinion was Luka, a aman of discipline and great succes in any team that he stepped on and yet we could care less and let him him find a better spot in the gulf yet again.
    Another guy at yout level was Vingo, though he still is in a place like kerman but we could sure use him for his strongholds of youth developement, then there is branko that did a great job with our youngsters in Busan and could be used where he can be good ( obviously not at adultTM)


    A federation that still cant give the match schedules out ahead of time, cant get thru elections, cant implement anything that would be considered infrastructural and is so blinded to see actually what coach for what position and to achieve what goal is not capable of a proper decision and to carry on...


    there is a saying
    azmoode ra azmoodan khatast, witht he same token I cant understand why not use people on the projects that have done just fine!!?
    deerooz, emrooz, farda
    zeeremonan
    sheeshtayeea
    The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
    Future of true professional football if any in Iran!

  2. #2
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    while you well know I dont agree with putting off hiring of good coaches based on a improbable hope that one day in near future, our infrastructure and fundamentals would be strong, ... , I must say I agree with the second part of your post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by perspolees View Post
    One such coach in my opinion was Luka, a aman of discipline and great succes in any team that he stepped on and yet we could care less and let him him find a better spot in the gulf yet again.
    Another guy at yout level was Vingo, though he still is in a place like kerman but we could sure use him for his strongholds of youth developement, then there is branko that did a great job with our youngsters in Busan and could be used where he can be good ( obviously not at adultTM)

    absolutely correct.
    even with the notion of having branko at either omid or youth level TM's.


    --------------

    the same second part that somehow negates your first part's claims, persi jan.
    one could well say why even bother with luka or branko or vingo, given that our infrstrctr and basics are lacking and non-existent ( the argument for thinking bringing cood coaches for TM changes almost nothing ! ) based on :
    Quote Originally Posted by perspolees View Post
    my firm belief that on this ground this or that name is really not going to have that much of a difference in what we would see on the pitch
    .... when doosti, ahmadzadeh and derakhshan could be as useful as branko, luka and vingo , but we'd still keep all those hefty salaries in pockets of IFF
    a bit contradictory, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
    while you well know I dont agree with putting off hiring of good coaches based on a improbable hope that one day in near future, our infrastructure and fundamentals would be strong, ... , I must say I agree with the second part of your post here:




    absolutely correct.
    even with the notion of having branko at either omid or youth level TM's.


    --------------

    the same second part that somehow negates your first part's claims, persi jan.
    one could well say why even bother with luka or branko or vingo, given that our infrstrctr and basics are lacking and non-existent ( the argument for thinking bringing cood coaches for TM changes almost nothing ! ) based on : .... when doosti, ahmadzadeh and derakhshan could be as useful as branko, luka and vingo , but we'd still keep all those hefty salaries in pockets of IFF
    a bit contradictory, no?
    it actually does not negate!
    getting on with good footwork for the youth IS INFRASTRUCTURE!
    they will then grow to understand the likes of hiddink and hopefully play ina lighted stadium on above average pitch on a scheduled time with proper diets, workouts, etc..

    put delbuske atop tm with the players that have a lose rootwork u wont see a dorn diff between him and ghalenoei!
    deerooz, emrooz, farda
    zeeremonan
    sheeshtayeea
    The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
    Future of true professional football if any in Iran!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by perspolees View Post
    it actually does not negate!
    getting on with good footwork for the youth IS INFRASTRUCTURE!
    but arent you actually making the case for a foreign coach here?
    you effectively said having the likes of luka, vingo, ... is good footwork.

    That is exactly what I have been saying.

    the only scenario I can understand that is applicable is when we try to hire EXPENSIVE TOP GRADE coaches.
    then , in that case, even I agree, such hirings dont necessarily return the proportionate investment and expenditure.

    That's why I always said we can afford to hire good B grade coaches who fit within our budget and still be good enough to help us. that seems more proportionate to me.

    if we totally want to save that money ( of hiring farangi coaches ), then we ought to be happy with the likes of GN, Dr. Z, derakhshan, doosti, ... and if they fail ( which lets face it, by all probabilities, WILL happen ) we shd NOT say a word or hold THEM accountable for "failing".



    ============

    and I didnt say lets "just" get a farangi coach.
    I did say the parallel approach which means WHILE we tend to the highly vital infrstrutral needs, we must NOT stay away from other aspects of football such as hiring and injecting good pro attitude and training ( in shape of farangi coaches ).


    =================

    I ask you all once again.
    you all know IRI.
    you all know how things do NOT get done.
    you all know Iran has been suffering from dire fundamental and basic lacks, football no different from any other issue.
    have they done anything to mend, repair, boost, build .... all these shortcomings & lacks?
    NO.

    so based on what history are we to sit and wait for IRI to "repeat" something that has never even initiated before ?


    your approaches are extremely noble and correct.
    I absolutely agree.
    .... BUT WHEN IT COMES TO A COUNTRY LIKE JAPAN, USA, ... where rule of law exists and the gov';t WORKS for betterment of its nation, ppl, society, ... etc.
    I ask you, IS IRI SUCH A GOV'T?

    what is the guarantee that the 2 mill saved from hiring ... say, santini or X or Y, and putting the likes of GN or MK, will be used to build that much needed stadium in X city or town that desperately needs this infrastructural entity?
    NO GUARANTEE.
    but it is safe to say not only that stadium will NOT be built, but the money will be forgotten day after tomorrow !

    yes, this approach is correct, durable and imminently sound. but it wont work in IRI.

    so now we have 2 options:
    either sit for the improbable and impossible to happen. and we sit and sit and sit some more. till grass grows under our feet.
    or we push and hope for some sort of movement in this direction, but not forget other aspects of football AT THE SAME TIME.

    --------------------
    we saved a lot of money using GN and MK and shahrokhi and ... instead of the likes of ciro, denizli, santini , ... .
    yes, most of those farangis didnt achieve much or very few of them did.
    but almost ALL the vatani guys failed.

    would you take the 20-30% success rate of farangi coaches or the 2% success rate of vatani ones?



    the third option is pin our hope in IRI ( futile, to my opinion. but lets just "assume" the impossible becomes possible ) and do NOT expect anything positive for the next 8-10 years.
    how many of you, my friends, are ready to accept and swallow losses to teams like qatar, syria, iraq, uzbeks, china, ... CONSTANTLY , for the next 10 years , since we will be in the investment and development mode, not a functioning and competitive one ????

    will you hold off from complaining and criticizing the players, staff, TM, ... for the next 10 years NO MATTER WHAT ?

    ( absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO: I'd rather see us boast we have a well known , famous football coach at TM who charges 2 mill even if he doesnt deliver, than see that 2 mill in the pockets of mother effing terrorists in lebanon, syria, and god knows where else, giving ALL of Iran a miserable name. not that our own gov't isnt doing a "fine" job at that !!! )


    there is, however, a fourth option too:
    we say screw football and sports and generally most NON-essential matters such as sports, and lets all spend all that money ( not only hiring coaches, but also holding games, meetings, camps, traning, schools, stadia, trips, tours, facilities, ..... EVERYTHING ) on making roads, providing drinking water, building distilleries, schools, hospitals, .... for ppl in Iran.
    you dont get MORE noble than this.

    but then again, why are we in such a forum?
    why not have such discussions in the general forum and close off all sports ( not only football, coz I say hospitals and schools are more important than volleyball, waterpolo, basketball, .... also ) fora and have only political and social discussion boards?

    becoz we know sports, and especially football, is just of the very few and rare commodities the oppressed Iranians have as a source of cheer and jubilation in their miserable and bleak lives.
    now, lets see if they agree to hold off all this for another 8-10 years on a promise ( how probable ? ) of development and fixing of our fundamental and basic aspects first ?

  5. #5
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    I am not a firm believer that Iran can benefit from a mega million dollars top notch European coach at the present situation and even in future when things settle down.

    One man can bring a temporary success at a certain span of time , but he cannot overhaul the system by only managing the national team.

    The East European coaches . training at youth level and even club levels have not done badly at all and the results are evident. More of these type of affordable coaches should be employed, however , the real sultion is to upgrade a cadre of national coaches. FIFA & AFC coaching course are a plenty and every opportunity should be given to Iranian coaches to attend and develop themselves.

    OF course attending courses does not produce great coaches. It is a talent within and like players , coaches who are successful are talented ones with high level of intelligence and mental concentration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maij View Post
    I am not a firm believer that Iran can benefit from a mega million dollars top notch European coach at the present situation and even in future when things settle down.
    One man can bring a temporary success at a certain span of time , but he cannot overhaul the system by only managing the national team.
    The East European coaches . training at youth level and even club levels have not done badly at all and the results are evident. More of these type of affordable coaches should be employed, however , the real sultion is to upgrade a cadre of national coaches. FIFA & AFC coaching course are a plenty and every opportunity should be given to Iranian coaches to attend and develop themselves.
    OF course attending courses does not produce great coaches. It is a talent within and like players , coaches who are successful are talented ones with high level of intelligence and mental concentration.
    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the real solution to improve football in Iran is to improve management and infrastructure.

    About the topic, I believe if a good foreign coach can bring us success, even if it is temporary, even if it is just for a tournament and with only 11 players, and even if it costs us a couple of million dollars a year, we should go for it.

    As you said, a coach in the TM level cannot improve the level of football in our country, as he can only work with the players probably for about 20-30 days a year. But if a good foreign coach can guide us to even one further level in a major tournament, that is enough justification for hiring him IMO, specially if we consider the level of popularity that football has among our population. A couple of million dollars is not a big amount for a country to spend and make people happy even for one single day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TM-Fan View Post
    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the real solution to improve football in Iran is to improve management and infrastructure.

    About the topic, I believe if a good foreign coach can bring us success, even if it is temporary, even if it is just for a tournament and with only 11 players, and even if it costs us a couple of million dollars a year, we should go for it.

    As you said, a coach in the TM level cannot improve the level of football in our country, as he can only work with the players probably for about 20-30 days a year. But if a good foreign coach can guide us to even one further level in a major tournament, that is enough justification for hiring him IMO, specially if we consider the level of popularity that football has among our population. A couple of million dollars is not a big amount for a country to spend and make people happy even for one single day.
    I hate to say it , but Iranian football fans are extremely over demanding and are becoming detached from the reality in Iran......

    My friend , do you know how many roads , schools , shelters , houses or clinics can be built in the deprived ares of the country or remote poor villages with this money??

    I have been and will be an avid supporter of Team Melli all my life and if this 2 million is self generated by football , then I would not have an issue . But why should the government spent that sort of money so me and you could enjoy watching our beloved team on TV, while this money is much more needed elsewhere for the deprived???

    It is not right......

    Why should this be think that giving 2 million bucks to a foreigner is

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    Quote Originally Posted by maij View Post
    I hate to say it , but Iranian football fans are extremely over demanding and are becoming detached from the reality in Iran......

    My friend , do you know how many roads , schools , shelters , houses or clinics can be built in the deprived ares of the country or remote poor villages with this money??

    I have been and will be an avid supporter of Team Melli all my life and if this 2 million is self generated by football , then I would not have an issue . But why should the government spent that sort of money so me and you could enjoy watching our beloved team on TV, while this money is much more needed elsewhere for the deprived???

    It is not right......

    Why should this be think that giving 2 million bucks to a foreigner is
    aaghaa Maij, spending money on shelters, roads, for the poor etc. is a must, no doubt about it. I am definitely not supporting to cut the money from the poor and give it to a foreign coach.

    The thing is that people in a country have different needs and life has different aspects. That is why every country allocates budget for entertainment and spends it on cinemas, theaters, parks, etc. If our country had only $2mil money and we wanted to decide whether to spend it for the poor or hire a foreign coach for football, I would agree with you. $2mil for our country is like 3 cents out of everybody's pocket, and I think is well worth it if we can spend it on something that the majority of the people have passion for. There will still be plenty of money to spend for the poor if we really want to.

    Just as an sports example, how much money does the government give the useless clubs such as RahAhan and Saba who have absolutely no fans and very little income for just ganging in the IPL? Or as an another example, IR has recently adopted a new policy to spend more on the championship sports to increase the number of medals in the international competitions. They think it is a good advertise for the country. And note that the money is spent for just a few selected athletes and not for the whole country. Why not reduce these budgets and give it to the sports that people like the most?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TM-Fan View Post
    aaghaa Maij, spending money on shelters, roads, for the poor etc. is a must, no doubt about it. I am definitely not supporting to cut the money from the poor and give it to a foreign coach.

    The thing is that people in a country have different needs and life has different aspects. That is why every country allocates budget for entertainment and spends it on cinemas, theaters, parks, etc. If our country had only $2mil money and we wanted to decide whether to spend it for the poor or hire a foreign coach for football, I would agree with you. $2mil for our country is like 3 cents out of everybody's pocket, and I think is well worth it if we can spend it on something that the majority of the people have passion for. There will still be plenty of money to spend for the poor if we really want to.

    Just as an sports example, how much money does the government give the useless clubs such as RahAhan and Saba who have absolutely no fans and very little income for just ganging in the IPL? Or as an another example, IR has recently adopted a new policy to spend more on the championship sports to increase the number of medals in the international competitions. They think it is a good advertise for the country. And note that the money is spent for just a few selected athletes and not for the whole country. Why not reduce these budgets and give it to the sports that people like the most?
    I think you will agree with me that money well spent on sport will make a lot of people happy including football fans like you and me. That is not the argument, it is:
    a- Whether 2 million dollar coach can improve TM and up to what extent?
    b- Whether 2 million dollars should be channeled elsewhere in the system, like youth development or coaching classes?

    In my humble opinion, I donít think spending 2 million a year on a foreign coach is a worthwhile proposition. It is risky and speculative. If IFF has enough cash to spare, then they can take that risk. The money must be self generated by football and not to be handed by the government. If the fans refuse to attend matches and buy tickets, hence generating revenue for football, then why should the government subsidize their entertainment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TM-Fan View Post
    About the topic, I believe if a good foreign coach can bring us success, even if it is temporary, even if it is just for a tournament and with only 11 players, and even if it costs us a couple of million dollars a year, we should go for it.
    me too but that would be a harry potter story!
    for that very same reason dreaming is not reality
    a dream coach right now with say 20 mil could sign for 3 years with tm and I would put my money on ab az ab takoon nemeekhore!
    deerooz, emrooz, farda
    zeeremonan
    sheeshtayeea
    The only dynasty of iranian football. ( At least three back to back championships define dynasty, we had moreTeam of the people by the people for the people that fills up 100k stadium like its nothing.
    Future of true professional football if any in Iran!

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